It kinda ends for 4 times, perfectly (with the killing, in the car, near the river, entering Ericson) but the fifth one ruins everything. Actually nonsense fairy tale, distant from the spirit of the comic.
you work for Skybound right? or ex telltale sour puss? xD actually einstein this forum is the reason people who feel passionately about the … moregame sign up to talk about every aspect of it, and in a lot of ways people complain about it on here because they care so much about it.
What about the people that wanted Clem to live and got her to die? They would be extremelly upset and would have to look for the ending they… more want on the internet but at that point it would completely kill the imersion and emotional aspect of the game. It isn't just the same as season 2 and 3 where you basically choose sides. This time around, the ending revolves around Clem's fate and 99% of players wanted her alive at the end. They would have to make the choices for the endings pretty obvious to guarantee everyone would get the ending they want, but I can't see how that could work on a decent way.
I thought the ending could've been better. The barn scene felt too much like Lee's death and I didn't like that, but they made it up with the twist (you got it right away, but I and others didn't). I feel determinant endings would ruin the finale for a significant portion of the players.
Like we got the choice to have Lee survived. We all need to face it, we’re playing choice based games, that doesn’t mean we always have the opportunity to change the story, especially with the budget telltale had at the time.
Like we got the choice to have Lee survived. We all need to face it, we’re playing choice based games, that doesn’t mean we always have the opportunity to change the story, especially with the budget telltale had at the time.
I disagree. Episode 4 had no real purpose. Episode 5 of Season 1 had a clear motivation and purpose behind it. If your last Episode has nothing for th eplayer to do or anticipate or have much of a directipn than what's the point?
They would have to make the choices for the endings pretty obvious to guarantee everyone would get the ending they want, but I can't see how… more that could work on a decent way.
Actually that would be much simpler than you think. Like for instance, have her still get bitten, AJ chop her leg off right away, have Clem lean on AJ on the way back to the boarding school, then once she's back, give her a choice between ending her suffering whilst also giving all the other kids a chance to say goodbye beforehand, or letting her live the rest of her life crippled as with the Ending we wound up with. Think of Life is Strange with the Alternate timeline with the Paralyzed Chloe.
But S1 is just as Linear. Everybody except Clem, Kenny, Lilly, Christa, and Omid die. Lee gets but no matter what. Carely/Doug die no matter what. TFS had determinates like Lou, Vi, and Tenn. So TFS had a better ending
But S1 is just as Linear. Everybody except Clem, Kenny, Lilly, Christa, and Omid die. Lee gets but no matter what. Carely/Doug die no matter what. TFS had determinates like Lou, Vi, and Tenn. So TFS had a better ending
Bullshit. Kenny's relationship with Lee mattered in Episode 4, where the fuck did that shit go? Nobody in the sequels can have different relationship with Clementine.
But I thought your argument was that choices didn’t matter? If anything, the choices are more impactful in season 4 than in season 1. Season 1 changes a few lines of dialogue at best, hell, if you kill the St Johns you get one line from Clementine at the end of the episode, and a different tone to her voice when she spots Lee on top of Molly, whereas choosing to save Louis or Violet can blind one of them or have the other become a mute, as well as the fact that it determines which character you spend most of episode 4 with, and if you’d like to further your relationship with that character, something that season 1 teased between Lee and Carley but just didn’t provide because why not?
Locations of scenes can even change in season 4, whereas in season 1 you end up in the exact same place no matter what. Wanna go hunting with Louis? Sure. Want to go fishing with violet? You can do that too, each zone has a different hunting activity.
What was so impactful about the season 1 choices if they all ended with the exact same outcome? Should I let Clementine kill the stranger, or just do it myself? Either way, he’s gonna die so it doesn’t matter. Should I help kill Larry, or help, despite the fact that he was gonna get killed by Kenny either way. We all need to face it, season 1 was only good for the story and perhaps even the puzzles, but not much else, season 4 simply has more to offer in terms of choices and how they can shape the story, albeit in a small way but much larger than what season 1 did
I love the final season. I love this series. I know we're all glad that it came into our lives. And I've actually learned good life lessons … morefrom playing the Walking Dead. Like true friendship and how important it is to have people in life you can trust. 6 best years of all time. I will always remember Clementine.
If she cuts off the leg in the woods where she's bit, she's going to die right there from blood loss or by being unable to escape the walker… mores. By waiting for the barn when they are secured, she's able to get out with AJ.
The timing absolutely matters. Again, people are just looking for things to be mad about.
If you saw it coming, then bravo. There are also a significant portion of people who didn't, and you can't fake everyone out. So, I think the staff did a fine job.
They would have to make the choices for the endings pretty obvious to guarantee everyone would get the ending they want, but I can't see how… more that could work on a decent way.
Actually that would be much simpler than you think. Like for instance, have her still get bitten, AJ chop her leg off right away, have Clem lean on AJ on the way back to the boarding school, then once she's back, give her a choice between ending her suffering whilst also giving all the other kids a chance to say goodbye beforehand, or letting her live the rest of her life crippled as with the Ending we wound up with. Think of Life is Strange with the Alternate timeline with the Paralyzed Chloe.
What?!? Your relationships matter with Clem in S4. Did you miss the boat in ep.3? Back to main point, S1 is more linear than S4.
Save Carley/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Shot Jolene? Don't matter - she dies regardless.
Freed Mr. Parker? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
S4
Romanced? Clem has someone she loves and shares a bond with.
Stopped Dorian? Your friend doesn't get mutilated.
Saved Lou? Vi gets half her face blown off.
Saved Vi? Lou is mutilated.
Saved James? He lives.
Spared Lilly? She lives.
Trusted AJ? Tenn dies
Didn't trust AJ? Vi/Lou die
Don't say S1 is more linear when S4 has more different ending variations and more determinant characters.
Bullshit. Kenny's relationship with Lee mattered in Episode 4, where the fuck did that shit go? Nobody in the sequels can have different relationship with Clementine.
Exactly. If you look at this forum's history, you'll see there's a lot of good discussion. It's a forum at the end of the day, but it's far better than the subreddit.
you work for Skybound right? or ex telltale sour puss? xD actually einstein this forum is the reason people who feel passionately about the … moregame sign up to talk about every aspect of it, and in a lot of ways people complain about it on here because they care so much about it.
But S1 is just as Linear. Everybody except Clem, Kenny, Lilly, Christa, and Omid die. Lee gets but no matter what. Carely/Doug die no matter what. TFS had determinates like Lou, Vi, and Tenn. So TFS had a better ending
You're probably not joking about this, but come on. People are still finding out new details about the game to this day. There are a fuckton of variables for so many scenes. There was just so much effort put into it. It's not Detroit, it was still a Telltale game, but it was also far more impactful. Maybe TWDG is a bad example, but Telltale have shown they can deliver in the past.
But I thought your argument was that choices didn’t matter? If anything, the choices are more impactful in season 4 than in season 1. Season… more 1 changes a few lines of dialogue at best, hell, if you kill the St Johns you get one line from Clementine at the end of the episode, and a different tone to her voice when she spots Lee on top of Molly, whereas choosing to save Louis or Violet can blind one of them or have the other become a mute, as well as the fact that it determines which character you spend most of episode 4 with, and if you’d like to further your relationship with that character, something that season 1 teased between Lee and Carley but just didn’t provide because why not?
Locations of scenes can even change in season 4, whereas in season 1 you end up in the exact same place no matter what. Wanna go hunting with Louis? Sure. Want to go fishing with violet? You can do that too, each zone has a different hunting activity.
What … [view original content]
I don't really want to argue this out because I don't have the time, but know that S1 was made in the intention of whittling down the cast, whilst Season 4 was made in the intention of having lots of ending variations, but they didn't really pull through. You know the whole 'your relationship has changed'? that was actually delivered on in Season 1, and to a lesser extent S4.
What?!? Your relationships matter with Clem in S4. Did you miss the boat in ep.3? Back to main point, S1 is more linear than S4.
Save Carle… morey/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Shot Jolene? Don't matter - she dies regardless.
Freed Mr. Parker? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
S4
Romanced? Clem has someone she loves and shares a bond with.
Stopped Dorian? Your friend doesn't get mutilated.
Saved Lou? Vi gets half her face blown off.
Saved Vi? Lou is mutilated.
Saved James? He lives.
Spared Lilly? She lives.
Trusted AJ? Tenn dies
Didn't trust AJ? Vi/Lou die
Don't say S1 is more linear when S4 has more different ending variations and more determinant characters.
Exactly. If you look at this forum's history, you'll see there's a lot of good discussion. It's a forum at the end of the day, but it's far better than the subreddit.
What?!? Your relationships matter with Clem in S4. Did you miss the boat in ep.3? Back to main point, S1 is more linear than S4.
Save Carle… morey/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Shot Jolene? Don't matter - she dies regardless.
Freed Mr. Parker? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
S4
Romanced? Clem has someone she loves and shares a bond with.
Stopped Dorian? Your friend doesn't get mutilated.
Saved Lou? Vi gets half her face blown off.
Saved Vi? Lou is mutilated.
Saved James? He lives.
Spared Lilly? She lives.
Trusted AJ? Tenn dies
Didn't trust AJ? Vi/Lou die
Don't say S1 is more linear when S4 has more different ending variations and more determinant characters.
It's not even just about choices, it's about the story as well. TFS story was nothing special: Clem and AJ meets a new group, they discover a secret, the group is hunted by raiders who are kidnapping children for war, we never even know much of their story, they kidnapped 3 children from the group, we are on a mission to save them, we get them out of there and it all ends with the most cliched happy ending ever made.
Save Carley/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Yes and no. Saving Carley gives you the option to tell everyone about your past. Saving Doug doesn't.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Yes and no. Lilly will hate you if you kill her dad and vice versa with Kenny.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Actually, that's a good point.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Again, yes and no. Cutting Lee's arm off gives you a shorter length for the episode and sparing it makes the fight at Marsh House more badass.
Romanced? Clem has someone she loves and shares a bond with.
Yeah but both scenes are played in the exact same way, just with different dialogue.
Stopped Dorian? Your friend doesn't get mutilated.
Losing a finger yes but does it add anything special other than different dialogue?
Saved James? He lives.
He lives but he is being an ass to you no matter what and never comes with you back to school.
Spared Lilly? She lives.
She does ABSOLUTELY nothing if she is spared. Lilly just walks away like nothing happened and that's the whole scene which doesn't even last more than 2 minutes. It's way worse conclusion than her death. Plus, you don't even get the option to put zombified James out of his misery in the cave.
Don't say S1 is more linear when S4 has more different ending variations and more determinant characters.
S4 doesn't have any different endings, Clem lives no matter what you chose. The only determinant characters for the ending is just Violet, Louis and Tenn which are the only developed members of the group but that's more of a conclusion of a character arc, not the story itself. Lilly and James never count because their fate is the same. They just leave the story in less than 40 minutes of the episode.
Plus, I said Season 1 is more choice-based, not linear.
What?!? Your relationships matter with Clem in S4. Did you miss the boat in ep.3? Back to main point, S1 is more linear than S4.
Save Carle… morey/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Shot Jolene? Don't matter - she dies regardless.
Freed Mr. Parker? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
S4
Romanced? Clem has someone she loves and shares a bond with.
Stopped Dorian? Your friend doesn't get mutilated.
Saved Lou? Vi gets half her face blown off.
Saved Vi? Lou is mutilated.
Saved James? He lives.
Spared Lilly? She lives.
Trusted AJ? Tenn dies
Didn't trust AJ? Vi/Lou die
Don't say S1 is more linear when S4 has more different ending variations and more determinant characters.
It's not even just about choices, it's about the story as well. TFS story was nothing special: Clem and AJ meets a new group, they discover … morea secret, the group is hunted by raiders who are kidnapping children for war, we never even know much of their story, they kidnapped 3 children from the group, we are on a mission to save them, we get them out of there and it all ends with the most cliched happy ending ever made.
Save Carley/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Yes and no. Saving Carley gives you the option to tell everyone about your past. Saving Doug doesn't.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Yes and no. Lilly will hate you if you kill her dad and vice versa with Kenny.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Actually, that's a good point.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Again, yes and no. Cutt… [view original content]
Yeah but both scenes are played in the exact same way, just with different dialogue.
Isn’t that what you argued for the Carley/Doug scene? Save one or the other, the only difference is different dialogue. Lilly will kill Carley/Doug, one or the other will show up to the rescue at the St Johns, practically the same as what happens with Violet/Louis, except you actually have the opportunity to build or demolish your relationship with them and have it leave an effect.
She does ABSOLUTELY nothing if she is spared
Travis and the other guy do nothing if they are saved either. They both just die a few seconds later, same with the St Johns, it’s heavily implied that they both die anyway if they are spared, so they literally can do nothing after that point, at least Lilly gets some off-screen time.
S4 doesn’t have any different endings
And S1 does? Choose to kill Lee or let him turn. Big difference, changes absolutely nothing aside from some dialogue in season 4 and perhaps even a little determinant line that about nobody saw because they didn’t choose a certain dialogue path in S2. At least in S4, not everybody dies either way and you can actually live out the end with whatever characters you choose rather than having Clementine wander around in a field.
he is being an ass to you no matter what
Not if you follow a certain dialogue path, where he goes on to risk his own life to help Clementine and AJ despite their current differences, which is more than just about anyone in the entire series would do.
Losing a finger yes but does it add anything special other than different dialogue?
Lee losing an arm doesn’t change anything g either aside from a few lines of dialogue. The only non-dialogue related change is whether or not he picks up a glass shard, and that scene lasts about 1 min, and despite that hardly anyone actually used the shard, and if they did they likely didn’t use it on their first playthrough, or ended up killing the wrong walkers where Lee would only jab them in the face rather than finding that one walker where you can do the one-two combo on. Same with the guy who was with Travis, he can lose a leg but it adds nothing. Either way one of them will die, and it only changes one line of dialogue.
Yes and no. Lilly will hate you if you kill her dad and vice versa with Kenny.
which doesn’t matter anyway because either way, Lilly will betray you and steal the RV if you let her stay, which is another choice not mattering, and Kenny will back you up in the end anyway by “sacrificing himself” and I can guarantee you he went into that situation expecting to die for Lee and Clementine, and he didn’t, so no matter who likes or dislikes you, Lilly will end the game with a strained relationship with Lee and Kenny will end the game with an actual brotherly-like relationship with him. Season 4 does the same, but better, choose Violet or Louis? One will be blinded and the other will become a mute, things that actually change the way a character acts and feels depending on choices that aren’t just a few lines of dialogue.
Idek why I did that backwards but I did. As for the story, it can be argued that S1 isn’t special. You coincidentally against all odds happen to stumble down into a house with an 8 year old who was surviving in a tree house for about 2 days, with a zombie Sandra in the house. I doubt she went in there for a drink or left the treehouse to drink out of the hose out of fear. How is she not dehydrated? Then the entire story is basically “survive a zombie apocalypse” which doesn’t matter anyway because you’re dead. Episode 4 breaks the zombid survival cliché by doing what the show and comics started to do, by dealing with other people and defending your own rather than dealing with zombies, that a large bulk of the cast are already used to, y’know, because they’ve been stuck together for 8 years, and even then the entire season isn’t too heavily focused on people, there’s still quite a good balance of u dead in there as well. So one hand we have a game where you’re forced to move to new locations because of a problem with a girl you met 3 months ago, and who eventually gets you killed but doesn’t split the fanbase for some reason, and then we have a game with said girl taking on responsibility and fulfilling the role of her predecessor by defending her new family and eventually “losing her own life” after trying to save them, though this time she gets the ending she actually deserves.
So in truth, season 4 is probably better than season 1. Choices matter more, the characters are unique and unlike anything we’ve seen in the series, and the QTE’s are better, though that’s down to better technology so I’ll let that one slide. Sure it may not be as emotional as S1, but emotion doesn’t always make for a good story. Not everyone needs to die to satisfy a “good story”
It's not even just about choices, it's about the story as well. TFS story was nothing special: Clem and AJ meets a new group, they discover … morea secret, the group is hunted by raiders who are kidnapping children for war, we never even know much of their story, they kidnapped 3 children from the group, we are on a mission to save them, we get them out of there and it all ends with the most cliched happy ending ever made.
Save Carley/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Yes and no. Saving Carley gives you the option to tell everyone about your past. Saving Doug doesn't.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Yes and no. Lilly will hate you if you kill her dad and vice versa with Kenny.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Actually, that's a good point.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Again, yes and no. Cutt… [view original content]
And the fact that they've shown they can deliver far better content from prior seasons of TWD and their other games further makes this finale that much more underwhelming and disappointing.
You're probably not joking about this, but come on. People are still finding out new details about the game to this day. There are a fuckton… more of variables for so many scenes. There was just so much effort put into it. It's not Detroit, it was still a Telltale game, but it was also far more impactful. Maybe TWDG is a bad example, but Telltale have shown they can deliver in the past.
Yeah but both scenes are played in the exact same way, just with different dialogue.
Isn’t that what you argued for the Carley/Doug … morescene? Save one or the other, the only difference is different dialogue. Lilly will kill Carley/Doug, one or the other will show up to the rescue at the St Johns, practically the same as what happens with Violet/Louis, except you actually have the opportunity to build or demolish your relationship with them and have it leave an effect.
She does ABSOLUTELY nothing if she is spared
Travis and the other guy do nothing if they are saved either. They both just die a few seconds later, same with the St Johns, it’s heavily implied that they both die anyway if they are spared, so they literally can do nothing after that point, at least Lilly gets some off-screen time.
S4 doesn’t have any different endings
And S1 does? Choose to kill Lee or let him turn. Big difference, changes absolute… [view original content]
Isn’t that what you argued for the Carley/Doug scene? Save one or the other, the only difference is different dialogue. Lilly will kill Carley/Doug, one or the other will show up to the rescue at the St Johns, practically the same as what happens with Violet/Louis, except you actually have the opportunity to build or demolish your relationship with them and have it leave an effect.
I just told you. Saving Carley gives you an option to tell everyone about your past when you can't if you save Doug instead.
Travis and the other guy do nothing if they are saved either. They both just die a few seconds later, same with the St Johns, it’s heavily implied that they both die anyway if they are spared, so they literally can do nothing after that point, at least Lilly gets some off-screen time.
I dunno why you're bringing up Travis/Parker when they were never as important as Lilly. Lilly was one of the most well developed main characters in Season 1 and this is how her story concludes? By getting killed just after one episode where she was introduced or just walking away like nothing happened? She never even got a chance to talk about more stuff from Season 1, she never mentioned Kenny or even Ben.
And S1 does? Choose to kill Lee or let him turn. Big difference, changes absolutely nothing aside from some dialogue in season 4 and perhaps even a little determinant line that about nobody saw because they didn’t choose a certain dialogue path in S2.
Season 1 was the first Telltale game to have impactful choices so it gets a pass. Season 2 is the only game with multiple endings (Which were completely trashed, thanks to ANF) but for a franchise conclusion as a whole, Season 4 gets only one ending. Is it a happy one? Yes. Does it make sense? Absolutely not. I'm telling you again, this is a choice-based game, not a linear story-telling like Uncharted or The Last of Us. You should never promise that choices will matter if you really can't keep that promise and they did.
At least in S4, not everybody dies either way and you can actually live out the end with whatever characters you choose rather than having Clementine wander around in a field.
This is because everyone who isn't Violet, Louis and Tenn were just background characters, they did not get any development in the final episode.
Not if you follow a certain dialogue path, where he goes on to risk his own life to help Clementine and AJ despite their current differences, which is more than just about anyone in the entire series would do.
You completely forgot how the relationship with Kenny in Season 1 worked, didn't you?
So in truth, season 4 is probably better than season 1. Choices matter more, the characters are unique and unlike anything we’ve seen in the series, and the QTE’s are better, though that’s down to better technology so I’ll let that one slide.
The relationship between Clem and AJ was never close as good as the one between Lee and Clementine. TFS is the only game where AJ is actually somebody when he was just a plot device in the previous seasons, especially ANF.
Yes, they sure do matter because AJ kills Marlon either way, everyone who isn't Louis, Violet and Tenn are 100% safe, Mitch makes shit decisions and dies like an idiot, AJ chops your leg regardless what you tell him (Plus, how does he know about the amputation thing if you didn't attack Abel in Episode 1?), Minerva is somehow the most OP character in the franchise and manages to get Clem amputated no matter how many bites or arrows she can get, Lilly gets out of the picture no matter how many arrows you shoot at her if spared, same with James (He will always split up with Clem and the others no matter what) and they were never heard again.
Yeah but both scenes are played in the exact same way, just with different dialogue.
Isn’t that what you argued for the Carley/Doug … morescene? Save one or the other, the only difference is different dialogue. Lilly will kill Carley/Doug, one or the other will show up to the rescue at the St Johns, practically the same as what happens with Violet/Louis, except you actually have the opportunity to build or demolish your relationship with them and have it leave an effect.
She does ABSOLUTELY nothing if she is spared
Travis and the other guy do nothing if they are saved either. They both just die a few seconds later, same with the St Johns, it’s heavily implied that they both die anyway if they are spared, so they literally can do nothing after that point, at least Lilly gets some off-screen time.
S4 doesn’t have any different endings
And S1 does? Choose to kill Lee or let him turn. Big difference, changes absolute… [view original content]
I just told you. Saving Carley gives you an option to tell everyone about your past when you can't if you save Doug instead.
Yeah, I know you told me, that’s why I told you that a few lines of dialogue is hardly a choice mattering, and it’s the exact same as what you’re arguing against the final season 4: save violet or Louis, either way, it’s just a bit of extra dialogue...and a romance, might I add?
I dunno why you're bringing up Travis/Parker when they were never as important as Lilly. Lilly was one of the most well developed main characters in Season 1 and this is how her story concludes? By getting killed just after one episode where she was introduced or just walking away like nothing happened? She never even got a chance to talk about more stuff from Season 1, she never mentioned Kenny or even Ben.
I brought up Travis’s group because it was another example of choices meaning fuck all in season 1. This’s what you said: “Plus, I said Season 1 is more choice-based, not linear.” well apparently S1 was linear because either way, one of these boys dies and everything goes back to normal. Did you choose to shoot duck? No worries, because if you did choose that option, Katjaa will still go into the woods and shoot herself...choice-based...yuuuup.
Season 1 was the first Telltale game to have impactful choices so it gets a pass. Season 2 is the only game with multiple endings (Which were completely trashed, thanks to ANF) but for a franchise conclusion as a whole, Season 4 gets only one ending. Is it a happy one? Yes. Does it make sense? Absolutely not. I'm telling you again, this is a choice-based game, not a linear story-telling like Uncharted or The Last of Us. You should never promise that choices will matter if you really can't keep that promise and they did.
Again...they said that choices mattered in season 1 but they didn’t at all. I honestly don’t see what choices are impactful, because they are all the same. Unless you mean that the linearity is impactful, in which case fair enough. I can also argue that Lee’s death makes 0 sense, you’re telling me that he can charge through a herd of walkers with just a meat cleaver and a glass shard, work his way up a bell tower flooded with walkers as well as survive the river street herd, only to get caught off guard by one sneaky boi, then dying with only one singular episode in order to push the linear story telling forward, seeing as season 1’s choices didn’t matter and it was too much effort to have Lee appear in S2 and all that nonsense. Even if he did he would have been killed off instantly anyway.
This is because everyone who isn't Violet, Louis and Tenn were just background characters, they did not get any development in the final episode.
so you’re saying that characters should only be killed off if they have no development and once they have been used up and sucked dry they can be discarded for good? Ok...* cough * duck, Doug and Mark.
You completely forgot how the relationship with Kenny in Season 1 worked, didn't you?
I’ve played season 1 more times than I can count, and I’d say it may be you who has forgotten how the Kenny relationship worked. I sided with him on EVERYTHING, but as soon as I don’t help him kill Larry, apparently me saving his son, as well as sticking up for his son in the drug store went right out of the window, cos he nearly got me killed, twice, and once that scene in the episode 3 drugstore was concluded, we were somehow back to besties, only to have the odd non-determinant argument here and there, which all happen whether you’re on his good side or not. So no, I did not forget about the Kenny relationship, if anything I’m the only one who can realise how dumb and linear it is. I mean how does that work? I saved his son, but I refuse to help murder somebody, and that somehow makes me Hitler to him for about half an episode.
The relationship between Clem and AJ was never close as good as the one between Lee and Clementine. TFS is the only game where AJ is actually somebody when he was just a plot device in the previous seasons, especially ANF.
Yes, they sure do matter because AJ kills Marlon either way, everyone who isn't Louis, Violet and Tenn are 100% safe, Mitch makes shit decisions and dies like an idiot, AJ chops your leg regardless what you tell him (Plus, how does he know about the amputation thing if you didn't attack Abel in Episode 1?), Minerva is somehow the most OP character in the franchise and manages to get Clem amputated no matter how many bites or arrows she can get, Lilly gets out of the picture no matter how many arrows you shoot at her if spared, same with James (He will always split up with Clem and the others no matter what) and they were never heard again.
I agree with the first part, but that isn’t the point of this debate. Not everything needs to be explained on-screen, if anything it’ll just be forced dialogue. For all we know, Clementine could have told him about carver, and what he did to Reggie, as well as who Reggie was as a result of said conversation, we don’t know, and we don’t need to know, because it’ll be pointless information that nobody really cares about knowing. I’m not arguing that S4 choices matter, I’m arguing that if you believe the choices in TFS don’t matter, you’re also arguing that the choices in S1 don’t matter, considering the choices in this game affect the story a hell of a lot more than S1’s ever did. Lilly gets away if you shoot her 3 times with arrows? Well the St Johns die whether you spare or kill them, Ben will die in the next episode in you saved him, Kenny can go missing in two different locations for some reason, despite reaching the “hole in the roof” at about the same time, if Ben’s dead or alive will somehow affect whether or not walkers are within eyeshot. You didn’t manage to shoot molly, forcing her to flee, don’t worry, just go back to the mansion and she’ll fuck off anyway just to show that choices don’t matter and she needs that sweet sweet unknown status by the end of the episode.
Face it, S1 is just as pointless in terms of choices mattering than S4 is. It’s a linear series, always has been, and you’d be ignorant to nostalgia to think otherwise.
Isn’t that what you argued for the Carley/Doug scene? Save one or the other, the only difference is different dialogue. Lilly will kill Carl… moreey/Doug, one or the other will show up to the rescue at the St Johns, practically the same as what happens with Violet/Louis, except you actually have the opportunity to build or demolish your relationship with them and have it leave an effect.
I just told you. Saving Carley gives you an option to tell everyone about your past when you can't if you save Doug instead.
Travis and the other guy do nothing if they are saved either. They both just die a few seconds later, same with the St Johns, it’s heavily implied that they both die anyway if they are spared, so they literally can do nothing after that point, at least Lilly gets some off-screen time.
I dunno why you're bringing up Travis/Parker when they were never as important as Lilly. Lilly was one of the most well developed main cha… [view original content]
I'm sure they wanted to do more with this game. This series put their company on the map, but they ran out of time and money. Give them a AAA company budget and who knows what they could've done with it
And the fact that they've shown they can deliver far better content from prior seasons of TWD and their other games further makes this finale that much more underwhelming and disappointing.
she never mentioned Kenny or even Ben.
Well, I don't think it really mattered to her after almost a decade. Clem being alone tells Lilly that the old group is dead. Why would Clem be alone otherwise? Lilly knows everyone else is dead - so bringing them up just to learn how they died would be a waste of breath. Lilly moved on. You can argue how can you move on after your dad is killed? Well, she knew about his heart problems and I'm sure she knew he wasn't meant for the new world. It was only a matter of time and she knew it.
Isn’t that what you argued for the Carley/Doug scene? Save one or the other, the only difference is different dialogue. Lilly will kill Carl… moreey/Doug, one or the other will show up to the rescue at the St Johns, practically the same as what happens with Violet/Louis, except you actually have the opportunity to build or demolish your relationship with them and have it leave an effect.
I just told you. Saving Carley gives you an option to tell everyone about your past when you can't if you save Doug instead.
Travis and the other guy do nothing if they are saved either. They both just die a few seconds later, same with the St Johns, it’s heavily implied that they both die anyway if they are spared, so they literally can do nothing after that point, at least Lilly gets some off-screen time.
I dunno why you're bringing up Travis/Parker when they were never as important as Lilly. Lilly was one of the most well developed main cha… [view original content]
About the choices,S1's choices were more "grey" and not all black and white like most of them became later in the series.
S1 was better at the illusion of choices you had a shit ton of variations,to this day there are still people that finds new things from that game which shows how amazing that game was.
But that's not it,yes choices mattered in lots of different ways that you probably don't remember.
There were choices that changed your relationship with the characters like killing or trying to save Larry,you also had the brilliant "points" system with Kenny, things like saving Duck,defending Duck or killing the woman in the street in EP3 gave you "points",all these choices would affect Kenny's decision in EP4 of going with you or leaving you.
And a lot of people seem to forget that you could let Clem decide for herself on whether she should kill or leave Lee,she would remember all of the choices you made in the game and choose for herself.
And there's other things that i probably forgot to talk about.
Point is,S4 has none of that,not a lot of variations,you can be a dick against Violet and Louis and still be able to romance them the choices you make with AJ have some small changes but none of them really matters in the end only the cave choice does. Choices are just really bad in general.
And it's just disappointing,when you play a game like Batman S2 and then play TFS right after it's like Telltale went backwards.
TLDR : Choices were disappointing this season because Telltale has shown us in the past that they could do better.
About the choices,S1's choices were more "grey" and not all black and white like most of them became later in the series.
S1 was better at … morethe illusion of choices you had a shit ton of variations,to this day there are still people that finds new things from that game which shows how amazing that game was.
But that's not it,yes choices mattered in lots of different ways that you probably don't remember.
There were choices that changed your relationship with the characters like killing or trying to save Larry,you also had the brilliant "points" system with Kenny, things like saving Duck,defending Duck or killing the woman in the street in EP3 gave you "points",all these choices would affect Kenny's decision in EP4 of going with you or leaving you.
And a lot of people seem to forget that you could let Clem decide for herself on whether she should kill or leave Lee,she would remember all of the choices you made in the game and choose for he… [view original content]
Comments
Who the fUCK DOESN’T LIKE THIS ENDING. It was goddamn perfect.
P.S. We even saw Eddie.
It kinda ends for 4 times, perfectly (with the killing, in the car, near the river, entering Ericson) but the fifth one ruins everything. Actually nonsense fairy tale, distant from the spirit of the comic.
I don’t threaten to lock my nan in a bin and roll it down a hill because I care about her though do I, fam?
I thought we were playing a choice-based game, not a fucking linear story-telling like Uncharted, The Last of Us or God of War.
Like we got the choice to have Lee survived. We all need to face it, we’re playing choice based games, that doesn’t mean we always have the opportunity to change the story, especially with the budget telltale had at the time.
Then they never should have promised "choice-mattering".
I disagree. Episode 4 had no real purpose. Episode 5 of Season 1 had a clear motivation and purpose behind it. If your last Episode has nothing for th eplayer to do or anticipate or have much of a directipn than what's the point?
Let's be honest here. No one would pick killing Clementine when she can live even as a cripple.
But S1 is just as Linear. Everybody except Clem, Kenny, Lilly, Christa, and Omid die. Lee gets but no matter what. Carely/Doug die no matter what. TFS had determinates like Lou, Vi, and Tenn. So TFS had a better ending
No it doesn't. That fake out ruined it. Violet and Louis are the only good side characters while others are just background extras.
But S1 is a lot more linear than TFS.
They’ve said that for years though. If you’re shitting on season 4’s choices, you might as well shit on season 1’s as well
Bullshit. Kenny's relationship with Lee mattered in Episode 4, where the fuck did that shit go? Nobody in the sequels can have different relationship with Clementine.
There is nothing equal between them. Season 1 had better impactful choices.
Look at all the awards it won.
But I thought your argument was that choices didn’t matter? If anything, the choices are more impactful in season 4 than in season 1. Season 1 changes a few lines of dialogue at best, hell, if you kill the St Johns you get one line from Clementine at the end of the episode, and a different tone to her voice when she spots Lee on top of Molly, whereas choosing to save Louis or Violet can blind one of them or have the other become a mute, as well as the fact that it determines which character you spend most of episode 4 with, and if you’d like to further your relationship with that character, something that season 1 teased between Lee and Carley but just didn’t provide because why not?
Locations of scenes can even change in season 4, whereas in season 1 you end up in the exact same place no matter what. Wanna go hunting with Louis? Sure. Want to go fishing with violet? You can do that too, each zone has a different hunting activity.
What was so impactful about the season 1 choices if they all ended with the exact same outcome? Should I let Clementine kill the stranger, or just do it myself? Either way, he’s gonna die so it doesn’t matter. Should I help kill Larry, or help, despite the fact that he was gonna get killed by Kenny either way. We all need to face it, season 1 was only good for the story and perhaps even the puzzles, but not much else, season 4 simply has more to offer in terms of choices and how they can shape the story, albeit in a small way but much larger than what season 1 did
Oh boy.
Up high
Didn't give a proper response but ok
ew no if that's what they actually did it would be a lot worse.
What?!? Your relationships matter with Clem in S4. Did you miss the boat in ep.3? Back to main point, S1 is more linear than S4.
Save Carley/Doug in ep.1? Don't matter - they both die the same way.
Try to save Larry? Don't matter what you decide - he dies.
Grabbed Omid/Christa on the train? Don't matter - they both make it.
Shot Jolene? Don't matter - she dies regardless.
Freed Mr. Parker? Don't matter - dies anyway.
Cut Lee's arm off? Don't matter - dies anyway.
S4
Romanced? Clem has someone she loves and shares a bond with.
Stopped Dorian? Your friend doesn't get mutilated.
Saved Lou? Vi gets half her face blown off.
Saved Vi? Lou is mutilated.
Saved James? He lives.
Spared Lilly? She lives.
Trusted AJ? Tenn dies
Didn't trust AJ? Vi/Lou die
Don't say S1 is more linear when S4 has more different ending variations and more determinant characters.
Exactly. If you look at this forum's history, you'll see there's a lot of good discussion. It's a forum at the end of the day, but it's far better than the subreddit.
You're taking the mick, right? How the heck can y...
seriously though, it's quite obvious you're trolling. Maybe you're doing some Like experiment?
You're probably not joking about this, but come on. People are still finding out new details about the game to this day. There are a fuckton of variables for so many scenes. There was just so much effort put into it. It's not Detroit, it was still a Telltale game, but it was also far more impactful. Maybe TWDG is a bad example, but Telltale have shown they can deliver in the past.
I don't really want to argue this out because I don't have the time, but know that S1 was made in the intention of whittling down the cast, whilst Season 4 was made in the intention of having lots of ending variations, but they didn't really pull through. You know the whole 'your relationship has changed'? that was actually delivered on in Season 1, and to a lesser extent S4.
Thanks to me. xo
That list explains it all.
I loved the ending.
It's not even just about choices, it's about the story as well. TFS story was nothing special: Clem and AJ meets a new group, they discover a secret, the group is hunted by raiders who are kidnapping children for war, we never even know much of their story, they kidnapped 3 children from the group, we are on a mission to save them, we get them out of there and it all ends with the most cliched happy ending ever made.
Yes and no. Saving Carley gives you the option to tell everyone about your past. Saving Doug doesn't.
Yes and no. Lilly will hate you if you kill her dad and vice versa with Kenny.
Actually, that's a good point.
Again, yes and no. Cutting Lee's arm off gives you a shorter length for the episode and sparing it makes the fight at Marsh House more badass.
Yeah but both scenes are played in the exact same way, just with different dialogue.
Losing a finger yes but does it add anything special other than different dialogue?
He lives but he is being an ass to you no matter what and never comes with you back to school.
She does ABSOLUTELY nothing if she is spared. Lilly just walks away like nothing happened and that's the whole scene which doesn't even last more than 2 minutes. It's way worse conclusion than her death. Plus, you don't even get the option to put zombified James out of his misery in the cave.
S4 doesn't have any different endings, Clem lives no matter what you chose. The only determinant characters for the ending is just Violet, Louis and Tenn which are the only developed members of the group but that's more of a conclusion of a character arc, not the story itself. Lilly and James never count because their fate is the same. They just leave the story in less than 40 minutes of the episode.
Plus, I said Season 1 is more choice-based, not linear.
Sure
Isn’t that what you argued for the Carley/Doug scene? Save one or the other, the only difference is different dialogue. Lilly will kill Carley/Doug, one or the other will show up to the rescue at the St Johns, practically the same as what happens with Violet/Louis, except you actually have the opportunity to build or demolish your relationship with them and have it leave an effect.
Travis and the other guy do nothing if they are saved either. They both just die a few seconds later, same with the St Johns, it’s heavily implied that they both die anyway if they are spared, so they literally can do nothing after that point, at least Lilly gets some off-screen time.
And S1 does? Choose to kill Lee or let him turn. Big difference, changes absolutely nothing aside from some dialogue in season 4 and perhaps even a little determinant line that about nobody saw because they didn’t choose a certain dialogue path in S2. At least in S4, not everybody dies either way and you can actually live out the end with whatever characters you choose rather than having Clementine wander around in a field.
Not if you follow a certain dialogue path, where he goes on to risk his own life to help Clementine and AJ despite their current differences, which is more than just about anyone in the entire series would do.
Lee losing an arm doesn’t change anything g either aside from a few lines of dialogue. The only non-dialogue related change is whether or not he picks up a glass shard, and that scene lasts about 1 min, and despite that hardly anyone actually used the shard, and if they did they likely didn’t use it on their first playthrough, or ended up killing the wrong walkers where Lee would only jab them in the face rather than finding that one walker where you can do the one-two combo on. Same with the guy who was with Travis, he can lose a leg but it adds nothing. Either way one of them will die, and it only changes one line of dialogue.
which doesn’t matter anyway because either way, Lilly will betray you and steal the RV if you let her stay, which is another choice not mattering, and Kenny will back you up in the end anyway by “sacrificing himself” and I can guarantee you he went into that situation expecting to die for Lee and Clementine, and he didn’t, so no matter who likes or dislikes you, Lilly will end the game with a strained relationship with Lee and Kenny will end the game with an actual brotherly-like relationship with him. Season 4 does the same, but better, choose Violet or Louis? One will be blinded and the other will become a mute, things that actually change the way a character acts and feels depending on choices that aren’t just a few lines of dialogue.
Idek why I did that backwards but I did. As for the story, it can be argued that S1 isn’t special. You coincidentally against all odds happen to stumble down into a house with an 8 year old who was surviving in a tree house for about 2 days, with a zombie Sandra in the house. I doubt she went in there for a drink or left the treehouse to drink out of the hose out of fear. How is she not dehydrated? Then the entire story is basically “survive a zombie apocalypse” which doesn’t matter anyway because you’re dead. Episode 4 breaks the zombid survival cliché by doing what the show and comics started to do, by dealing with other people and defending your own rather than dealing with zombies, that a large bulk of the cast are already used to, y’know, because they’ve been stuck together for 8 years, and even then the entire season isn’t too heavily focused on people, there’s still quite a good balance of u dead in there as well. So one hand we have a game where you’re forced to move to new locations because of a problem with a girl you met 3 months ago, and who eventually gets you killed but doesn’t split the fanbase for some reason, and then we have a game with said girl taking on responsibility and fulfilling the role of her predecessor by defending her new family and eventually “losing her own life” after trying to save them, though this time she gets the ending she actually deserves.
So in truth, season 4 is probably better than season 1. Choices matter more, the characters are unique and unlike anything we’ve seen in the series, and the QTE’s are better, though that’s down to better technology so I’ll let that one slide. Sure it may not be as emotional as S1, but emotion doesn’t always make for a good story. Not everyone needs to die to satisfy a “good story”
And the fact that they've shown they can deliver far better content from prior seasons of TWD and their other games further makes this finale that much more underwhelming and disappointing.
Preach
I just told you. Saving Carley gives you an option to tell everyone about your past when you can't if you save Doug instead.
I dunno why you're bringing up Travis/Parker when they were never as important as Lilly. Lilly was one of the most well developed main characters in Season 1 and this is how her story concludes? By getting killed just after one episode where she was introduced or just walking away like nothing happened? She never even got a chance to talk about more stuff from Season 1, she never mentioned Kenny or even Ben.
Season 1 was the first Telltale game to have impactful choices so it gets a pass. Season 2 is the only game with multiple endings (Which were completely trashed, thanks to ANF) but for a franchise conclusion as a whole, Season 4 gets only one ending. Is it a happy one? Yes. Does it make sense? Absolutely not. I'm telling you again, this is a choice-based game, not a linear story-telling like Uncharted or The Last of Us. You should never promise that choices will matter if you really can't keep that promise and they did.
This is because everyone who isn't Violet, Louis and Tenn were just background characters, they did not get any development in the final episode.
You completely forgot how the relationship with Kenny in Season 1 worked, didn't you?
The relationship between Clem and AJ was never close as good as the one between Lee and Clementine. TFS is the only game where AJ is actually somebody when he was just a plot device in the previous seasons, especially ANF.
Yes, they sure do matter because AJ kills Marlon either way, everyone who isn't Louis, Violet and Tenn are 100% safe, Mitch makes shit decisions and dies like an idiot, AJ chops your leg regardless what you tell him (Plus, how does he know about the amputation thing if you didn't attack Abel in Episode 1?), Minerva is somehow the most OP character in the franchise and manages to get Clem amputated no matter how many bites or arrows she can get, Lilly gets out of the picture no matter how many arrows you shoot at her if spared, same with James (He will always split up with Clem and the others no matter what) and they were never heard again.
Yeah, I know you told me, that’s why I told you that a few lines of dialogue is hardly a choice mattering, and it’s the exact same as what you’re arguing against the final season 4: save violet or Louis, either way, it’s just a bit of extra dialogue...and a romance, might I add?
I brought up Travis’s group because it was another example of choices meaning fuck all in season 1. This’s what you said: “Plus, I said Season 1 is more choice-based, not linear.” well apparently S1 was linear because either way, one of these boys dies and everything goes back to normal. Did you choose to shoot duck? No worries, because if you did choose that option, Katjaa will still go into the woods and shoot herself...choice-based...yuuuup.
Again...they said that choices mattered in season 1 but they didn’t at all. I honestly don’t see what choices are impactful, because they are all the same. Unless you mean that the linearity is impactful, in which case fair enough. I can also argue that Lee’s death makes 0 sense, you’re telling me that he can charge through a herd of walkers with just a meat cleaver and a glass shard, work his way up a bell tower flooded with walkers as well as survive the river street herd, only to get caught off guard by one sneaky boi, then dying with only one singular episode in order to push the linear story telling forward, seeing as season 1’s choices didn’t matter and it was too much effort to have Lee appear in S2 and all that nonsense. Even if he did he would have been killed off instantly anyway.
so you’re saying that characters should only be killed off if they have no development and once they have been used up and sucked dry they can be discarded for good? Ok...* cough * duck, Doug and Mark.
I’ve played season 1 more times than I can count, and I’d say it may be you who has forgotten how the Kenny relationship worked. I sided with him on EVERYTHING, but as soon as I don’t help him kill Larry, apparently me saving his son, as well as sticking up for his son in the drug store went right out of the window, cos he nearly got me killed, twice, and once that scene in the episode 3 drugstore was concluded, we were somehow back to besties, only to have the odd non-determinant argument here and there, which all happen whether you’re on his good side or not. So no, I did not forget about the Kenny relationship, if anything I’m the only one who can realise how dumb and linear it is. I mean how does that work? I saved his son, but I refuse to help murder somebody, and that somehow makes me Hitler to him for about half an episode.
Yes, they sure do matter because AJ kills Marlon either way, everyone who isn't Louis, Violet and Tenn are 100% safe, Mitch makes shit decisions and dies like an idiot, AJ chops your leg regardless what you tell him (Plus, how does he know about the amputation thing if you didn't attack Abel in Episode 1?), Minerva is somehow the most OP character in the franchise and manages to get Clem amputated no matter how many bites or arrows she can get, Lilly gets out of the picture no matter how many arrows you shoot at her if spared, same with James (He will always split up with Clem and the others no matter what) and they were never heard again.
I agree with the first part, but that isn’t the point of this debate. Not everything needs to be explained on-screen, if anything it’ll just be forced dialogue. For all we know, Clementine could have told him about carver, and what he did to Reggie, as well as who Reggie was as a result of said conversation, we don’t know, and we don’t need to know, because it’ll be pointless information that nobody really cares about knowing. I’m not arguing that S4 choices matter, I’m arguing that if you believe the choices in TFS don’t matter, you’re also arguing that the choices in S1 don’t matter, considering the choices in this game affect the story a hell of a lot more than S1’s ever did. Lilly gets away if you shoot her 3 times with arrows? Well the St Johns die whether you spare or kill them, Ben will die in the next episode in you saved him, Kenny can go missing in two different locations for some reason, despite reaching the “hole in the roof” at about the same time, if Ben’s dead or alive will somehow affect whether or not walkers are within eyeshot. You didn’t manage to shoot molly, forcing her to flee, don’t worry, just go back to the mansion and she’ll fuck off anyway just to show that choices don’t matter and she needs that sweet sweet unknown status by the end of the episode.
Face it, S1 is just as pointless in terms of choices mattering than S4 is. It’s a linear series, always has been, and you’d be ignorant to nostalgia to think otherwise.
I'm sure they wanted to do more with this game. This series put their company on the map, but they ran out of time and money. Give them a AAA company budget and who knows what they could've done with it
she never mentioned Kenny or even Ben.
Well, I don't think it really mattered to her after almost a decade. Clem being alone tells Lilly that the old group is dead. Why would Clem be alone otherwise? Lilly knows everyone else is dead - so bringing them up just to learn how they died would be a waste of breath. Lilly moved on. You can argue how can you move on after your dad is killed? Well, she knew about his heart problems and I'm sure she knew he wasn't meant for the new world. It was only a matter of time and she knew it.
About the choices,S1's choices were more "grey" and not all black and white like most of them became later in the series.
S1 was better at the illusion of choices you had a shit ton of variations,to this day there are still people that finds new things from that game which shows how amazing that game was.
But that's not it,yes choices mattered in lots of different ways that you probably don't remember.
There were choices that changed your relationship with the characters like killing or trying to save Larry,you also had the brilliant "points" system with Kenny, things like saving Duck,defending Duck or killing the woman in the street in EP3 gave you "points",all these choices would affect Kenny's decision in EP4 of going with you or leaving you.
And a lot of people seem to forget that you could let Clem decide for herself on whether she should kill or leave Lee,she would remember all of the choices you made in the game and choose for herself.
And there's other things that i probably forgot to talk about.
Point is,S4 has none of that,not a lot of variations,you can be a dick against Violet and Louis and still be able to romance them the choices you make with AJ have some small changes but none of them really matters in the end only the cave choice does. Choices are just really bad in general.
And it's just disappointing,when you play a game like Batman S2 and then play TFS right after it's like Telltale went backwards.
TLDR : Choices were disappointing this season because Telltale has shown us in the past that they could do better.
@iFoRias
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." Kylo Ren
We're here to defend the Final Season - not shit on it like every other thread has.