Guybush and Elaine are a great couple
I seen loads of ppl saying they don't work as a couple and im not saying there wrong or flaming anyone I just wana say why I think they work. I think they are like marryed couples on TV like Marge and Homer or Hal and Lois with one being a strict sensble lady and the other sumbmisive crazy lacking comonsense but lovebul man. I think they play off eatch other well and its one of the things I likes about EMI there scense togeather made me lol and in TMI the start scenes where hes asking if shes ok over n over and her trying not to get pissed off was sooo sweet :P I would hate to see a relationship that lasted 4 games end but I dont think it will cos they seem like soul mates they way they complment each others charecter.
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Sometimes I wonder how things would have gone if they hadn't got back together after MI2, but the romance thing was continued with subtle hints here and there. I think that would have worked too.
In TOMI pt1 at least she made an effort to help you when you saw her. In part 2 you could talk to her and she gave you money and help you out a little bit, but I was bothered how easily it was for her to run off with LeChuck and the Monkeys. And in part 3 it seems like she's getting a little affected by the pox and falling for LeChuck. At least she was actually looking for Guybrush. I'm not saying I hate Elaine but sometimes her Character can be a real jerk, but I guess nobody's perfect.:D
Just to put it in here, I played through like, 5-6 hours of EMI. My impression was that Guybrush was a horny lapdog, amongst other things. That was prolly my least favourite Guybrush portrayal. I did like however, Elaine's 'all business' attitude. If you were to compare it to her personality in TMI right now, that Elaine in EMI was a lot more aloof (at least as far as I remember).
Anyway, just to state. I'm a romantic sap. I replay the Chapter 1 opening sequence just so I can see both Guybrush and Elaine together (which is a reunion scene and hence even more sweet). And then I kept a save file just before Guybrush enters the cutscene with his full reunion with Elaine. The lack of additional scenes of them together besides those two (especially the absolute zero interaction b/t them in Chapter 3) is really disheartening, at least from a romantic like me.
Now, the community questioning Elaine's and Guybrush's relationship isn't that surprising when you think about it. Guybrush still pretty much acts solo, maybe a lot more than even in previous games. Which is interesting because it does bring up some questions about gamer's anticipations. Elaine and Guybrush are married, but we do not really see them interact as a married couple because we can only play as Guybrush and one of the classic goals of the game is to reunite/cure/complete-some-objective-then-get-back-to-her with Elaine. Just by gameplay mechanics, we as gamers cannot see a story progression where they might be in close proximity. EMI had her as an NPC, but I think what we expect is something more on the lines of a Sam and Max. The two of them as a duo in the context of the game.
Personally, just to see how the game mechanics would work and for a more interesting story progression. If Telltale had gone this way, the game prolly wouldn't have been much different, but our perspective as gamers on Elaine's and Guybrush's relationship would be so much greatly expanded that maybe this current situation with community questioning it, wouldn't even come up in the first place.
What we DO have right now is that a) they're deliberately seperated as per the story, and what reunions there are are sparse and short-lived, b) hence the only sign of affection and fidelity we get is from verbal assertions but c) since Chapter 3, we can see Guybrush practices a high amount of marital fidelity, and we get this insight because we PLAY A HIM, simple as that.
With Elaine, we get incredibly short cutscenes, BUT THESE ARE DONE ON PURPOSE. Elaine's supposed infidelity is what Telltale has been pushing as a key question throughout the chapters. Chapter 3's tarot card summary pretty much beats you on the head with that question. And this has obviously worked, as you can see with the general community reaction - even though if you take a step back and look at it, you know that certain Tropes makes what we think very uncertain, and specific clues already dropped point to something else altogether.
But to get back to Guybrush, Chapter 3 was an entire analysis of his attachment to Elaine. What with faking the marriage with Morgan in the opening quarter, and his seeming completely obliviousness to Morgan's true romantic hints. It's not the fangirl part, Guybrush is tons happy with the fangirl part, But at least to him, he has a very clear distinction between liking that other women like him as a pirate idol, and him actually liking them back in anything more than as a friend.
In short, Guybrush has matrimonial tunnel vision.
Some people might say his ease and willingness to ask Morgan to pose as his wife shows he's not all that happy in his marriage or some such. I say no, that proved a lot more that he believes so much in the status quo of him being Elaine's husband, he is completely comfortable in the knowledge that he's just asking a friend (who happens to be female) to ACT as his wife. What's more, he didn't cross one specific line. He didn't use his own wedding ring as a prop, which I felt certain he would do (and which I tried to do actually, since it seemed logical).
If anything, Chapter 3 displayed his mercenary use of Morgan. He really regarded her as a handy source of additional muscle in dealing with the pirates of the manatee, and of course, the whole 'setting up' with Noogie. I'm not going to use the 'w' word here, because it's way too harsh, but it's basically the same sentiment that that whole part of the puzzle was, heh.
So Guybrush's fidelity to Elaine is without question. Especially demonstrated at the end of Chapter 3. The concept of 'affair' is prolly alien to him, seriously.
Of course, the REAL problem now is with how Elaine's being portrayed and what the community regards her actions and reactions as. What we have to remember is that a) as the non-player character, her cutscenes is really just there to notify us she isn't dead and b) Telltale has been shuffling us on this path of 'zomg Elaine's in love with LeChuck' from the beginning and that it's obvious.
As I said, Chapter 3's opening with the tarot cards focusing on 'trust' is beating you on the head with the insinuations that Telltale is doing. We as gamers, are suppose to believe Elaine's falling for LeChuck. We're suppose to believe that she's choosing to stay with LeChuck instead of Guybrush in Chapter 2 because she's romantically interested in LeChuck. Of course, a) the power of the trope of status quo and b) the obvious thing is never the right thing tells you to look pass that and THINK about the few cutscenes we have had for Elaine.
For example, why does noone get that at the end of Chapter 2, Elaine is clearly telling (not even hinting, even though Guybrush completely misses her point) Guybrush that she has to stay with LeChuck because something is wrong. I'm paraphrasing this but I remember her specifically saying something along the lines of "I don't trust him". This is alarm bells that although at the start of Chapter 2, Elaine may have fully believed that LeChuck was fully reformed and that he really does just want to re-rehabilitate the monkeys, something has happened that has caused her to become suspicious.
In Chapter 3, her irritation is very obvious. She has the impression that LeChuck is stalling, and hence she's getting frustrated they're wasting more time than she thought and delaying her reunion with Guybrush.
What we have here in these few scenes, is the inkling of that Elaine in MI1, who you thought you were saving from an evil and damned marriage with LeChuck but lo and behold, it was a dress full of monkeys! This is her finding things out, but with subtlety in comparison to her husband's rather direct approach.
The problem is that key plot points are flying over a lot of these player's heads, who instead only take what Telltale has deliberately and overtly STATED and edited into the cutscenes at face value without thinking further.
Here are some questions you should be thinking:
1) Why does LeChuck need to go to so many different islands? If Elaine is suspicious, that means this reason is really an excuse, and one for either stalling time or hiding a more sinister motive which Elaine hasn't found out just yet (hence she is still giving LeChuck the benefit of doubt in Chapter 3's cutscene).
2) If they're really planning to put these special monkeys on specifically different islands, you should be thinking, what purpose could this serve?
3) You have different monkeys on different islands. If they were to link to found a giant summoning circle of power or some sort perhaps? This is my theory (trademark).
In conclusion, what has happened is that Telltale succeeded in getting the majority of the community to believe what they've been pushing forth, without much subtlety. The problem is that the community then gets a little hyped up, which is not really their fault since there's been barely any scenes of Guybrush and Elaine together, at least so far. The entire subplot of the series so far is to question fidelity. Guybrush's has been shown to be without question, while Elaine's one is a DRIVING PLOT POINT.
It's really a term of perspective whether or not you think it's a negative point. Since this has been Telltale's plan from the beginning, this is prolly the appropiate response, which would more or less resolve itself by the game's end.
Playing WoW alone has done some terrible...terrible things to my WASD keys. Also note, this is technically only half of the original, a mis-timed backspace erased about half of what I originally wrote lol.
:eek:I don't Think I would've made it through that one.:eek:
Well the delete was prolly a godsend. I was talking about MI1, MI2 and CMI as well. A little bit of EMI thrown in too. In retrospect, it was all pretty irrelevant
Everything that has been said in this thread, actually.
I couldn't agree more that Guybrush and Elaine make a great couple! And even though I have played the previous games in the right order - that is SMI, MI2, CMI, I've never played EMI, though, but I am totally spoiled about it -, I do believe they belong together. Ron Gilbert might have stated that he couldn't see Guybrush and Elaine getting married, but still, I'm convinced the end of CMI was not a mistake. They've overcome many obstacles, but are finally together.
In SMI, Guybrush and Elaine fell in love with each other, you can't deny that. In the end, they're together watching the fireworks, which is "very romantic" as Elaine says, and if you pick a certain sentence in the last dialog choice, she even states Guybrush said something that "sounded like something her husband would say". Guybrush's reaction to that ("Yikes!") implies he's not ready for that kind of commitment. Probably because he just became a pirate, and now he wants to go out there looting and pillaging and... pirating.
In MI2, something has happened between him and Elaine that caused their relationship to end, and left Elaine mad at him, stating they "were a mistake". Maybe it was simply the fact that he was a pirate and she was the governor, or probably Guybrush just became too obsessed over being a "mighty pirate" and the one who killed LeChuck, she couldn't stand it. But she still has feelings for him, as she almost falls for him and his "weakness and ineptitude" again - until he mentions the map, that is. But in the end, after the credits, she still hopes Guybrush would come back...
During his absense (and I'm sure, after a while without his return, Elaine thought Guybrush must be dead), Elaine probably discovered her feelings for him again, as she states in CMI, he was "the only man she ever loved", and Guybrush, not wanting to lose her again, proposes to her. I see nothing wrong with that development, even if Ron Gilbert does.
As for the newest developments in Tales, so far, I can't see Guybrush leaving Elaine for Morgan, or Elaine leaving Guybrush for LeChuck, even if there are many hints for both, which is a great way of keeping the suspense and adding a whole new aspect to their relationship. But I still hope they won't end up being separated for good...
been there, done that many a time
No, no, I didn't mean to say it was irrelevant. I also didn't mean any insult, just a very long post. One that I happen to agree with, since my marriage is similar with the roles reversed.
No, I meant that after I accidentally deleted my own post, I realized that about half of it was really irrelevant, which I deliberately left out when I rewrote it. You needn't apologize or anything
Totally agree with this, but I have learned to accept her, even though she always seemed to take advantage of Guybrush's "innocence", so to speak.
Really? Really?!!
In EMI hes very horrny and trys to pick up random women
because Elaine doesn't want to have ,,fun,, with him
:?
I'm totally with Byakko on the romantic stuff. I love seeing this idea being developed in a video game and I hope it emphasized more in future TT games. The shifting of suspense from what Guybrush will do to what's happening in the cut-scenes is really intriuging.
However, I disagree with the point on Guybrush being in a matrimonial tunnel vision:
How long has this man been married to Elaine? His actions and words prove that his attachment to his wife comes out of a deeper cause. His jealousy in chapter 2 refines his desire to be with his wife almost as if he felt he "owns" his wife. This may be a very primal male reaction, but still is one that exists. Not to mention he cannot and will not trust LeChuck after these many years. This jealousy leads to his questioning in chapter 3, but his solidarity is founded when he tries to move ahead and cure his wife and the rest of the Caribbean of the pox. This overshadows pretty much any inclination he has to his wife.
In retrospect to ep3, we know the man is of a one track mind, and I think TT has developed this quite well. It's always one thing right after the other with Guybrush. His lack of attentiveness to Morgan's "gestures" - humor me on my word choice, as this is what I interpret the subtle animations to represent - is primarily because he is focused on what is going and what he needs to do.
Unless Elaine were to do something brash in front of Guybrush, ie. Fall hopelessly in love with LeChuck, I don't think Guybrush would act any more different. Even in the case of Guybrush seeing Elaine and LeChuck together, his feelings would be of jealousy but he would definitely fight for Elaine's love, rather than notice Morgan's affection.
I ultimately concur on the thread's title (and pretty much a thesis), as I really enjoy the dynamic Elaine and Guybrush have. I also like the connection between the Simpsons, as Marge and Homer's relationship is definitely something that kept me fairly interested in the series. However, to draw the conclusion that Guybrush is like Homer, I'd be interested in seeing the comparison based off each character's motivations and actions.