Doodoo, continuity has nothing to do with following characters around from the original trilogy. In fact, that we see R2D2 and C-3PO at all is horribly straining. What is the liklihood that two random droids would so happen to stumble into both adventures? The thing is, they don't belong in the prequels, and that they're in the movies hurts the credibility of the story. In Episode VI, we're told that Yoda is the Jedi that trained Obi-Wan. We're told that Obi-Wan was as bothersome as Luke as a pupil. And yet, we get Qui-Gon anyway. We're told that Leia remembers her mother, and that she was very sad, and yet Padme died in childbirth. We get this idea that Obi-Wan and Anakin were good friends, and the whole Master/Apprentice relationship along with both of them constantly yelling at each other with only sidelong comments saying "Oh that adventure we had was pretty neat huh way over there off screen I HATE YOU!" to indicate that they might like each other at all.
Did they ever actually say that Obi Wan was taught by Qui Gon for his entire life? At the most Qui Gon could only have started teaching Obi Wan when he reached the status of master. Plain and simple that's how the movies state it works.
Every young-ling at the academy has some training time with Yoda before they train with a jedi master. This is suggested and shown in the prequels.
Oh, come on, who cares about the droids. Stranger things could of had happened. It's not that bad. He wrote the story starting from TPM that the origin of these droids was some how connected to the characters, and so it was. It was never written before, what's the real issue if he wrote it that way? In TPM Anakin builds 3PO and R2d2 happens to be working for the republic, it's not that unlikely that the two droids could service the republic. This isn't a huge deal, it's just an unexpected story twist and something for critics to needlessly attack.
It's not like having 3PO in the prequels really hurt anything, I thought it was pretty interesting that Anakin built stuff like that. It has positive merit, it could have been any droid but to be precise it was 3PO...not a big deal.
They never said I hate you, only when he was on fire and sliding into lava and he cut his legs off...Even in ROTS after he turned to the dark side he talked to Obi Wan about his feelings and with any rational thought left told Padame that they could only hope that he (Obi Wan) had remain loyal to the republic.
He was a mentor to Anakin, Anakin was troubled and needed direction. You of all people probably know what tough love is.
ROTS
You were like a brother, Anakin! I Loved you!
Obi wan took Anakin in, always gave him the benefit of the doubt even if he was hard on him. He was a jedi and had to do what he had to do. Yoda assures him in ROTS that Anakin is gone and that Darth Vader remains before they fight. Even at the end Obi wan tries to address Anakin and pour his heart out to him when the force tells us that Anakin is gone.
They have their moments, they are in a war together, their little side stories they mention are there for a reason and to be quite honest I don't want to watch needless time of bondage on screen, man hugs, and watch them go for a drink at the catinas. I think people can more than enough get the idea that they were friends or atleast mentor and apprentice.
ROTS
I taught you everything I know, you are far greater a jedi than I could ever hope to be (Obi Wan to Anakin). Have patience, the consul will honor you with the rank of Jedi Master soon.
The boy had too much power to be treated like he was just another friend, he was his mentor not just his friend, he was like a older brother and he had to make sure he was safe and serious about what was happening. They had plenty of small moments where they bonded and that was enough for anyone who's not a cynic.
Yeah, Leia remembers her mother through the force. Leia was raised on Alderaan even in the original story, I'm glad that we didn't get lose ends where she went with her mother and then we never knew what the hell happened from there. We already know that she is raised on Alderaan by Senator Bail Organa...Thank God that the movie doesn't end going off with her mother with no explanation, it's fine the way it is. Then we have to consider Luke too...and there's more loose ends (anything else you wanted to destroy?)
Any little discrepancy was unavoidable and it's quite possible that having the force Leia remember her mother even as a infant.
EDIT: People aren't giving the prequels ANY credit, the dialog in ROTS is not that bad even if Haydren Christen doesn't state it too well himself. What is so great about the actual dialog in ROTJ?
"Your thoughts betray you, father"
" I won't fight you..."
"Now, young Skywalker, you will die..."
Yes, everything sounds good when good actors say it but actually listen to the dialog, it's not utterly genius and brilliant dialog...
The dialog in this scene is REALLY...really not that bad... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRFUoqA_vm0&feature=related
Give me a break, the dialog may be rough, real on the edges but it's really not bad. ROTJ avoided any real dialog, because Lucas can't really write it for one thing and for another the characters really weren't that developed together, no real relationship or drama.
I love Jedi but the music helps alot and the fact that Luke fights for his sister and other mentionable things, and because of the reveal of Anakin. But really is any of it really that developed? You're my father a dark jedi in a metal suit! NOOO! NOOO! This scene radiates in dialog, even if it's not the best...
Give me a break...
"Dark side, Dark side, something something" Palpatine
"I won't fight my daddy!"
"I'm darth vader, I'm your daddy!"
"DARK SIDE DARK SIDE"
"NO NO NO"
It has just as much as a peak, epiphany as ROTS does where all things come to a end that have been building, there's no real flavor in one other the other or anything that's really deep and that intellect one apart from the other.
I agree with you about the prequels not getting enough credit, I thought that the way Lucas tied the story together with A New Hope and Revenge of the Sith very well. And you're right about not enough character development, all George did was slap dramatic music in, and then put in some high fighting action sequences in order to take attention away from them.
I agree with you about the prequels not getting enough credit, I thought that the way Lucas tied the story together with A New Hope and Revenge of the Sith very well. And you're right about not enough character development, all George did was slap dramatic music in, and then put in some high fighting action sequences in order to take attention away from them.
Yes, and to continue in this direction:
Vader and Luke hardly know each other, there's no real bond there.
Luke hardly knows anything about his father, we just have a few scenes where with the force luke is some how connected to his robot father (More machine than man). His father has no real relationship at all with Luke aside from this Dark Side mumble jumble...
It wears out the concept of the force, good versus evil, blah blah blah... is there any real side to either side? Not really, vader is all bad and the palpatine is even worse. There are a few minor lines of dialog that show a little bit of a controversy, a little drama. None of them are brilliant lines that really make you think.
There really isn't a whole lot of depth and as you say character development. Characters are pretty simple and one sided, the conflict as they put it is historically generic and expected.
People are so closed minded to the ROTS fight scene, which is one of the most passionate light saber battles I've ever seen.
The truth about the Vader and Luke relationship is that it was shocking at the time, shocking when you first saw it and so it's infamous, it's a twist that intrigued people and wowed them. People were caught up into at the time, now as all six movies are out and we look back and that's gone. We already know the story, esp if you watch them in order.
The feeling of the moment preserves but is it really that enduring? Is it really that deep and great of a concept? I'm sure people were on board until the very last frame of Jedi and liked seeing Anakin saved but any real fan might just be searching for a little more with the prequels.
There's alot that the original 3 didn't really explore and really vader has just like Luke's dark shadow, nearly life less in the movies.
I heard some where that Vader wasn't even originally scripted to be his father.
There's not a whole lot actually going on, the whole effect is simply just not as enduring as it used to be. We expect more now, especially after we have a glimpse into the character of Anakin. Esp after we see Anakin in ROTS go through his complete transformation. Instead we get a very closed off Vader who keeps to himself and with limited dialog we have to pass the time eventually is defeated to give out a few good lines about Anakin and how he's been saved.
I love Jedi but it's not that phenomenal over ROTS in dialog.
Vader's character is just a dark side puppet who is Luke's father, there really isn't a lot going on. Yeah, sure salvation is great, esp after you link it back to Anakin but up until that point is there really that much genius and brilliant dialog and character development? HELL NO!
I can't believe this thread...
Either you're a massive troll or you really don't understand storytelling.
Vader and Luke hardly know each other, there's no real bond there.
There really isn't a whole lot of depth and as you say character development.
People are so closed minded to the ROTS fight scene, which is one of the most passionate light saber battles I've ever seen.
Really? REALLY?
The best lightsaber battles were in the original films, with the best one being the one in ESB. "But the prequel ones were fancier" true, they were also boring and a waste of time.
I mean sure, they're pretty to look at, but what's the point? In ESB you didn't care about the clashing of the sabers, you cared about the characters. Luke didn't finish his training and was fighting with Darth Vader, who was mocking him during the entire fight, fighting with only one arm, telling him he's not a Jedi, ... THAT is an emotional battle.
The same goes for the other OT lightsaber battles, there's always a conversation going on, the fight is secondary to the character development.
In the prequels you've just got choreographed battles... which are fancy and all, but no one says anything, they're just boring. Yes, George changed that a bit in the 3rd prequel... but the lines are ridiculous ("only a Sith deals in absolutes" -> yeah, that's not hypocritical at all Obi-Wan) but you also don't care about the characters AT ALL.
And yeah, everyone knew Palpatine was evil.
a) There was this evil dude called Emperor Palpatine in the OT, who kinda looks exactly like senator Palpatine. hmm....
b) There's this hologram of Darth Sidious, who looks and sounds just like Palpatine. hmmm
it's not utterly genius and brilliant dialog...
You don't understand. They don't need to be "genius", just compare them to the incredibly awkward lines in eg ROTS in that balcony scene ("You are so Beautiful." "It's because I am so in love."). You can't possibly not hate that scene.
Anakin building 3PO is one of worst idea's ever. Him living on Tatooine is just as bad.
It makes the universe look ridiculously small and creates a huge amount of plotholes.
The trade dispute makes no sense, Palpatine's plan makes no sense, the Jedi's reaction makes no sense, the love story makes no sense, Anakin's fall makes no sense, ...
I'll agree that I "liked" watching the prequels (well, apart from some scenes that just make you wanna scratch your eyes out) when they came out, but the second I left the cinema and started thinking about the story... it all falls apart. That is why I can't rewatch the prequels, they bother me to no end.
You don't understand. They don't need to be "genius", just compare them to the incredibly awkward lines in eg ROTS in that balcony scene ("You are so Beautiful." "It's because I am so in love."). You can't possibly not hate that scene.
I rewatched it recently, goodness me that scene is bad. I actually felt embarrassed for all involved.
I can't believe this thread...
Either you're a massive troll or you really don't understand storytelling.
Really? REALLY?
The best lightsaber battles were in the original films, with the best one being the one in ESB. "But the prequel ones were fancier" true, they were also boring and a waste of time.
I mean sure, they're pretty to look at, but what's the point? In ESB you didn't care about the clashing of the sabers, you cared about the characters. Luke didn't finish his training and was fighting with Darth Vader, who was mocking him during the entire fight, fighting with only one arm, telling him he's not a Jedi, ... THAT is an emotional battle.
The same goes for the other OT lightsaber battles, there's always a conversation going on, the fight is secondary to the character development.
In the prequels you've just got choreographed battles... which are fancy and all, but no one says anything, they're just boring. Yes, George changed that a bit in the 3rd prequel... but the lines are ridiculous ("only a Sith deals in absolutes" -> yeah, that's not hypocritical at all Obi-Wan) but you also don't care about the characters AT ALL.
And yeah, everyone knew Palpatine was evil.
a) There was this evil dude called Emperor Palpatine in the OT, who kinda looks exactly like senator Palpatine. hmm....
b) There's this hologram of Darth Sidious, who looks and sounds just like Palpatine. hmmm
You don't understand. They don't need to be "genius", just compare them to the incredibly awkward lines in eg ROTS in that balcony scene ("You are so Beautiful." "It's because I am so in love."). You can't possibly not hate that scene.
Anakin building 3PO is one of worst idea's ever. Him living on Tatooine is just as bad.
It makes the universe look ridiculously small and creates a huge amount of plotholes.
The trade dispute makes no sense, Palpatine's plan makes no sense, the Jedi's reaction makes no sense, the love story makes no sense, Anakin's fall makes no sense, ...
I'll agree that I "liked" watching the prequels (well, apart from some scenes that just make you wanna scratch your eyes out) when they came out, but the second I left the cinema and started thinking about the story... it all falls apart. That is why I can't rewatch the prequels, they bother me to no end.
I'm not a troll, trolls are people who insult others or take away from intelligent conversation with insults, accuse people of being trolls. Esp people who started a thread and try to not insult some one. I'm not trying to judge, so let's not judge me?
The prequel fights aren't really only fancy. This simply is not true. Lucas cleary enhances light saber battles with every movie. With every movie he uses more special effects and skills to show a duel. In ANH he has a few spins, with simple light saber effects.
In ESB, he has more, he has jedi jumping and flips, things being thrown and glass breaking...etc etc and then in ROTJ it's in the same vain if it doesn't take it even further.
You can justify it with Obi Wan's age in ANH, but clearly Yoda suggests that age and size simply do not matter with the force.
I really don't understand why knowing Palpatine is evil is a big deal. Mace Windu and Obi Wan didn't watch the older movies first. There are several quotes in the prequels that don't beat around the bush, they actually SAY THAT HE IS A SITH LORD.
AOTC- What if I told you that there was a dark lord ruling the senate?(Dooku)
That's impossible we'd sense it (Obi Wan)
The Dark Side clouds everything (Dooku)
ROTS
(OBI WAN to Anakin )I'd keep a close eye on your friend, Palpatine.
TPM
But who was destroyed, the Sith lord or the apprentice? (Mace Windu)
ROTS
(Yoda) A trait far more common in Jedi, too sure of them selves.
They weren't trying to hide Palpatine from the audience, they were building up the story how he was able to come to power, trick the order and justified how powerful he truly was by in fact tricking the entire jedi order.
They suspected a Sith Lord, even had mixed feelings about Palpatine since the first movie.
Of course he tricked Anakin, of course he put stupid thoughts into his mind. He's his damn apprentice, lol!
C3PO is a not a plot hole, I know it's hard to wrap the mind around it. He's present in Vader's life throughout. You could have just as easily watched the new three first if you were born this year or in the years to come or even 5 years ago...They're just two droids. They never traveled around the entire galaxy, this really isn't that big of a deal. Things you create for yourself are bound to return to you at some time in your life. Really not that amazing. In ANH it's suggested that the two droids are in fact old friends. They had to meet some where....Telling the story of the two droids really isn't that big of a deal.
I don't see the big deal in sending Luke to the same planet his father grew up in, esp when he has some sort of family there...
ROTS does have effects like any other Star Wars movie does throughout. Though a large majority of it takes place on ground, and there's a very passionate light saber duel throughout.
The logical reason why the old three movies are slower (duel wise) is because Luke isn't a complete jedi and because Vader is in his life suit and has less blood to bat.
Oh, because Luke really cared about being a Jedi which at that point meant destroying his father. Clearly not because he was in conflict and didn't want to fight him. STILL they didn't really develop any real father and son bond. Obi Wan and Yoda were willing to kill if they had to do it for the jedi order...
The one arm literally served as more of a implied symbolism, there wasn't really that much emphasis on his one arm in Jedi, throughout. After he gets his robotic arm they show it off a little but by the time of Jedi, who really cares?
The only emotional scene with it in Jedi is when they compare his arm to Vader. That's about the extent of relationship and character development you get in Jedi though...
No, I do understand, lol. No, I don't hate the scene. I esp don't hate the original 3 movies either. I'm a fan boy of 1-6.
Everyone is forgetting one thing: All the films are inferior to the piece of high art called "The Star Wars Holiday Special".
I think it's on my Zune. Yeah, it is. HAHA. No, I don't really like it. That is pretty rough in parts if not impossible to watch. I'm not sure what to make of it. It's is trash but I still like having a copy some where.
Lucas cleary enhances light saber battles with every movie. With every movie he uses more special effects and skills to show a duel.
Since when are more special effects a good thing? A long time ago George Lucas said: "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
The prequel fights, as I said, are a lot prettier, but they're boring because they serve no purpose to the plot.
I really don't understand why knowing Palpatine is evil is a big deal. Mace Windu and Obi Wan didn't watch the older movies first. There are several quotes in the prequels that don't beat around the bush, they actually SAY THAT HE IS A SITH LORD.
Exactly. Don't you see the problem here?
It makes the Jedi the dumbest idiots in the galaxy!
Since when are more special effects a good thing? A long time ago George Lucas said: "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
The prequel fights, as I said, are a lot prettier, but they're boring because they serve no purpose to the plot.
Exactly. Don't you see the problem here?
It makes the Jedi the dumbest idiots in the galaxy!
You know, even the greatest empires come to a end at the peak of their power. They become too sure of their selves, they become clouded. Everyone loses their power eventually. The Romans, the ancient Egyptians...etc etc...
I think it's suggested that they are losing their power, as the force isn't balanced, and they are just able to some what see into a clouded future.
Just as ROTS states
Too sure of them selves...
The Dark Side clouds everything
They're not idiots, they're simply left in the dark. There's no real failing. The audience knows who Palpatine is but they don't. To them he is in fact a functional Senator who is mysterious but they don't know how fast he could rise to power. They don't know that he's a super powerful Sith Lord. They sense something is wrong surrounding him from time to time but Palpatine is too powerful to just give himself away. If he did, what would be the point? It would one movie. He already is evil, it's the story how he is connected to all the jedi and how he does away with the jedi quickly and effectively with his pupil, and how he rises to power in the galaxy by manipulating the galactic senate.
It's true,each movie progresses the effects, by the time of TMP Lucas adds more effects and more fancy Jedi moves. It's a true progression.
That's simply not true about the duels. Aside from some of the duels which take up action in the clone wars (show some fighting/ combat), in every duel something important happens or later it's revealed as something that was important.
The thread title makes me want to watch all 6 movies at the same time using split-screen.
Now that would be something.
That would be cool but my brain can't watch up to 6 movies at the same time, only two. Which isn't saying much because we are conscious of the world around us as we watch a movie. It's really not that impressive of a skill.
6 movies at once I would be very impressed to see.
I doubt this would work due to the audio but i remember watching a interesting animation movie at a film festival where the area was split into several frames, can't remember the exact amount anymore. They all showed a different scene and started at different time points. In the end all story parts meet each other and came together.
It was exhausting in the beginning but after some time you got used to it but you still had to pay more attention than in a normal movie. I always wantet to use this concept in a game but i haven't found time to yet.
I doubt this would work due to the audio but i remember watching a interesting animation movie at a film festival where the area was split into several frames, can't remember the exact amount anymore. They all showed a different scene and started at different time points. In the end all story parts meet each other and came together.
It was exhausting in the beginning but after some time you got used to it but you still had to pay more attention than in a normal movie. I always wantet to use this concept in a game but i haven't found time to yet.
Brilliant! The way I am able to watch two movies is to constantly look for things to tie the two together. I look for ideas that some how connect, link the two. Like when I watched The Others with The Farmers Wife, I analyzed people's emotions.
Anyways that sounds awesome! I really wish I could see that.
Of course you have to learn to look way at the appropriate times to see the other movie. It's some what difficult and straining.
I doubt this would work due to the audio but i remember watching a interesting animation movie at a film festival where the area was split into several frames, can't remember the exact amount anymore. They all showed a different scene and started at different time points. In the end all story parts meet each other and came together.
It was exhausting in the beginning but after some time you got used to it but you still had to pay more attention than in a normal movie. I always wantet to use this concept in a game but i haven't found time to yet.
The entire film is one take, although they re-filmed the entire film many times + chose the best one.
It could be quite interesting to use split-screen in a real-time part of an adventure game, where you have several characters that start in one place + all go in different directions, or a split screen that appears for characters that are nearby + about to enter the story/room. If you were just splitting up your main characters they'd have to be doing something useful in real-time, or you might as well just use an icon in the corner of the screen to switch between characters + devote the full screen to the part you control. Split-screen is used quite effectively at times in the "interactive film" Indigo Prophecy (aka Fahrenheit) and I assume they reuse similar techniques in Heavy Rain.
Comments
(totaly ruined the creating of vader's cyborg body)
I liked that part, it was so... Hot.
Did they ever actually say that Obi Wan was taught by Qui Gon for his entire life? At the most Qui Gon could only have started teaching Obi Wan when he reached the status of master. Plain and simple that's how the movies state it works.
Every young-ling at the academy has some training time with Yoda before they train with a jedi master. This is suggested and shown in the prequels.
Oh, come on, who cares about the droids. Stranger things could of had happened. It's not that bad. He wrote the story starting from TPM that the origin of these droids was some how connected to the characters, and so it was. It was never written before, what's the real issue if he wrote it that way? In TPM Anakin builds 3PO and R2d2 happens to be working for the republic, it's not that unlikely that the two droids could service the republic. This isn't a huge deal, it's just an unexpected story twist and something for critics to needlessly attack.
It's not like having 3PO in the prequels really hurt anything, I thought it was pretty interesting that Anakin built stuff like that. It has positive merit, it could have been any droid but to be precise it was 3PO...not a big deal.
They never said I hate you, only when he was on fire and sliding into lava and he cut his legs off...Even in ROTS after he turned to the dark side he talked to Obi Wan about his feelings and with any rational thought left told Padame that they could only hope that he (Obi Wan) had remain loyal to the republic.
He was a mentor to Anakin, Anakin was troubled and needed direction. You of all people probably know what tough love is.
ROTS
You were like a brother, Anakin! I Loved you!
Obi wan took Anakin in, always gave him the benefit of the doubt even if he was hard on him. He was a jedi and had to do what he had to do. Yoda assures him in ROTS that Anakin is gone and that Darth Vader remains before they fight. Even at the end Obi wan tries to address Anakin and pour his heart out to him when the force tells us that Anakin is gone.
They have their moments, they are in a war together, their little side stories they mention are there for a reason and to be quite honest I don't want to watch needless time of bondage on screen, man hugs, and watch them go for a drink at the catinas. I think people can more than enough get the idea that they were friends or atleast mentor and apprentice.
ROTS
I taught you everything I know, you are far greater a jedi than I could ever hope to be (Obi Wan to Anakin). Have patience, the consul will honor you with the rank of Jedi Master soon.
The boy had too much power to be treated like he was just another friend, he was his mentor not just his friend, he was like a older brother and he had to make sure he was safe and serious about what was happening. They had plenty of small moments where they bonded and that was enough for anyone who's not a cynic.
Yeah, Leia remembers her mother through the force. Leia was raised on Alderaan even in the original story, I'm glad that we didn't get lose ends where she went with her mother and then we never knew what the hell happened from there. We already know that she is raised on Alderaan by Senator Bail Organa...Thank God that the movie doesn't end going off with her mother with no explanation, it's fine the way it is. Then we have to consider Luke too...and there's more loose ends (anything else you wanted to destroy?)
Any little discrepancy was unavoidable and it's quite possible that having the force Leia remember her mother even as a infant.
EDIT: People aren't giving the prequels ANY credit, the dialog in ROTS is not that bad even if Haydren Christen doesn't state it too well himself. What is so great about the actual dialog in ROTJ?
"Your thoughts betray you, father"
" I won't fight you..."
"Now, young Skywalker, you will die..."
Yes, everything sounds good when good actors say it but actually listen to the dialog, it's not utterly genius and brilliant dialog...
The dialog in this scene is REALLY...really not that bad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRFUoqA_vm0&feature=related
Give me a break, the dialog may be rough, real on the edges but it's really not bad. ROTJ avoided any real dialog, because Lucas can't really write it for one thing and for another the characters really weren't that developed together, no real relationship or drama.
I love Jedi but the music helps alot and the fact that Luke fights for his sister and other mentionable things, and because of the reveal of Anakin. But really is any of it really that developed? You're my father a dark jedi in a metal suit! NOOO! NOOO! This scene radiates in dialog, even if it's not the best...
Give me a break...
"Dark side, Dark side, something something" Palpatine
"I won't fight my daddy!"
"I'm darth vader, I'm your daddy!"
"DARK SIDE DARK SIDE"
"NO NO NO"
It has just as much as a peak, epiphany as ROTS does where all things come to a end that have been building, there's no real flavor in one other the other or anything that's really deep and that intellect one apart from the other.
I agree with you about the prequels not getting enough credit, I thought that the way Lucas tied the story together with A New Hope and Revenge of the Sith very well. And you're right about not enough character development, all George did was slap dramatic music in, and then put in some high fighting action sequences in order to take attention away from them.
Yes, and to continue in this direction:
Vader and Luke hardly know each other, there's no real bond there.
Luke hardly knows anything about his father, we just have a few scenes where with the force luke is some how connected to his robot father (More machine than man). His father has no real relationship at all with Luke aside from this Dark Side mumble jumble...
It wears out the concept of the force, good versus evil, blah blah blah... is there any real side to either side? Not really, vader is all bad and the palpatine is even worse. There are a few minor lines of dialog that show a little bit of a controversy, a little drama. None of them are brilliant lines that really make you think.
There really isn't a whole lot of depth and as you say character development. Characters are pretty simple and one sided, the conflict as they put it is historically generic and expected.
People are so closed minded to the ROTS fight scene, which is one of the most passionate light saber battles I've ever seen.
The truth about the Vader and Luke relationship is that it was shocking at the time, shocking when you first saw it and so it's infamous, it's a twist that intrigued people and wowed them. People were caught up into at the time, now as all six movies are out and we look back and that's gone. We already know the story, esp if you watch them in order.
The feeling of the moment preserves but is it really that enduring? Is it really that deep and great of a concept? I'm sure people were on board until the very last frame of Jedi and liked seeing Anakin saved but any real fan might just be searching for a little more with the prequels.
There's alot that the original 3 didn't really explore and really vader has just like Luke's dark shadow, nearly life less in the movies.
I heard some where that Vader wasn't even originally scripted to be his father.
There's not a whole lot actually going on, the whole effect is simply just not as enduring as it used to be. We expect more now, especially after we have a glimpse into the character of Anakin. Esp after we see Anakin in ROTS go through his complete transformation. Instead we get a very closed off Vader who keeps to himself and with limited dialog we have to pass the time eventually is defeated to give out a few good lines about Anakin and how he's been saved.
I love Jedi but it's not that phenomenal over ROTS in dialog.
Vader's character is just a dark side puppet who is Luke's father, there really isn't a lot going on. Yeah, sure salvation is great, esp after you link it back to Anakin but up until that point is there really that much genius and brilliant dialog and character development? HELL NO!
Then it must be true. The pope is indeed the Dark Lord!
1. George Lucas is a dork.
2. Star Wars sucks as a whole.
I could live with that.
*prepares for massive ambush*
Either you're a massive troll or you really don't understand storytelling.
Really? REALLY?
The best lightsaber battles were in the original films, with the best one being the one in ESB. "But the prequel ones were fancier" true, they were also boring and a waste of time.
I mean sure, they're pretty to look at, but what's the point? In ESB you didn't care about the clashing of the sabers, you cared about the characters. Luke didn't finish his training and was fighting with Darth Vader, who was mocking him during the entire fight, fighting with only one arm, telling him he's not a Jedi, ... THAT is an emotional battle.
The same goes for the other OT lightsaber battles, there's always a conversation going on, the fight is secondary to the character development.
In the prequels you've just got choreographed battles... which are fancy and all, but no one says anything, they're just boring. Yes, George changed that a bit in the 3rd prequel... but the lines are ridiculous ("only a Sith deals in absolutes" -> yeah, that's not hypocritical at all Obi-Wan) but you also don't care about the characters AT ALL.
And yeah, everyone knew Palpatine was evil.
a) There was this evil dude called Emperor Palpatine in the OT, who kinda looks exactly like senator Palpatine. hmm....
b) There's this hologram of Darth Sidious, who looks and sounds just like Palpatine. hmmm
You don't understand. They don't need to be "genius", just compare them to the incredibly awkward lines in eg ROTS in that balcony scene ("You are so Beautiful." "It's because I am so in love."). You can't possibly not hate that scene.
Anakin building 3PO is one of worst idea's ever. Him living on Tatooine is just as bad.
It makes the universe look ridiculously small and creates a huge amount of plotholes.
The trade dispute makes no sense, Palpatine's plan makes no sense, the Jedi's reaction makes no sense, the love story makes no sense, Anakin's fall makes no sense, ...
I'll agree that I "liked" watching the prequels (well, apart from some scenes that just make you wanna scratch your eyes out) when they came out, but the second I left the cinema and started thinking about the story... it all falls apart. That is why I can't rewatch the prequels, they bother me to no end.
Happy Life Day.
I guess we can all agree on the fact that the prequel as much as one might hate or love them are still better than the Holliday Special.
I rewatched it recently, goodness me that scene is bad. I actually felt embarrassed for all involved.
I'm not a troll, trolls are people who insult others or take away from intelligent conversation with insults, accuse people of being trolls. Esp people who started a thread and try to not insult some one. I'm not trying to judge, so let's not judge me?
The prequel fights aren't really only fancy. This simply is not true. Lucas cleary enhances light saber battles with every movie. With every movie he uses more special effects and skills to show a duel. In ANH he has a few spins, with simple light saber effects.
In ESB, he has more, he has jedi jumping and flips, things being thrown and glass breaking...etc etc and then in ROTJ it's in the same vain if it doesn't take it even further.
You can justify it with Obi Wan's age in ANH, but clearly Yoda suggests that age and size simply do not matter with the force.
I really don't understand why knowing Palpatine is evil is a big deal. Mace Windu and Obi Wan didn't watch the older movies first. There are several quotes in the prequels that don't beat around the bush, they actually SAY THAT HE IS A SITH LORD.
AOTC- What if I told you that there was a dark lord ruling the senate?(Dooku)
That's impossible we'd sense it (Obi Wan)
The Dark Side clouds everything (Dooku)
ROTS
(OBI WAN to Anakin )I'd keep a close eye on your friend, Palpatine.
TPM
But who was destroyed, the Sith lord or the apprentice? (Mace Windu)
ROTS
(Yoda) A trait far more common in Jedi, too sure of them selves.
They weren't trying to hide Palpatine from the audience, they were building up the story how he was able to come to power, trick the order and justified how powerful he truly was by in fact tricking the entire jedi order.
They suspected a Sith Lord, even had mixed feelings about Palpatine since the first movie.
Of course he tricked Anakin, of course he put stupid thoughts into his mind. He's his damn apprentice, lol!
C3PO is a not a plot hole, I know it's hard to wrap the mind around it. He's present in Vader's life throughout. You could have just as easily watched the new three first if you were born this year or in the years to come or even 5 years ago...They're just two droids. They never traveled around the entire galaxy, this really isn't that big of a deal. Things you create for yourself are bound to return to you at some time in your life. Really not that amazing. In ANH it's suggested that the two droids are in fact old friends. They had to meet some where....Telling the story of the two droids really isn't that big of a deal.
I don't see the big deal in sending Luke to the same planet his father grew up in, esp when he has some sort of family there...
ROTS does have effects like any other Star Wars movie does throughout. Though a large majority of it takes place on ground, and there's a very passionate light saber duel throughout.
The logical reason why the old three movies are slower (duel wise) is because Luke isn't a complete jedi and because Vader is in his life suit and has less blood to bat.
Oh, because Luke really cared about being a Jedi which at that point meant destroying his father. Clearly not because he was in conflict and didn't want to fight him. STILL they didn't really develop any real father and son bond. Obi Wan and Yoda were willing to kill if they had to do it for the jedi order...
The one arm literally served as more of a implied symbolism, there wasn't really that much emphasis on his one arm in Jedi, throughout. After he gets his robotic arm they show it off a little but by the time of Jedi, who really cares?
The only emotional scene with it in Jedi is when they compare his arm to Vader. That's about the extent of relationship and character development you get in Jedi though...
No, I do understand, lol. No, I don't hate the scene. I esp don't hate the original 3 movies either. I'm a fan boy of 1-6.
No, I've only been able to train my brain to watch two movies at once. One is usually a silent film.
The prequel fights, as I said, are a lot prettier, but they're boring because they serve no purpose to the plot.
Exactly. Don't you see the problem here?
It makes the Jedi the dumbest idiots in the galaxy!
You know, even the greatest empires come to a end at the peak of their power. They become too sure of their selves, they become clouded. Everyone loses their power eventually. The Romans, the ancient Egyptians...etc etc...
I think it's suggested that they are losing their power, as the force isn't balanced, and they are just able to some what see into a clouded future.
Just as ROTS states
Too sure of them selves...
The Dark Side clouds everything
They're not idiots, they're simply left in the dark. There's no real failing. The audience knows who Palpatine is but they don't. To them he is in fact a functional Senator who is mysterious but they don't know how fast he could rise to power. They don't know that he's a super powerful Sith Lord. They sense something is wrong surrounding him from time to time but Palpatine is too powerful to just give himself away. If he did, what would be the point? It would one movie. He already is evil, it's the story how he is connected to all the jedi and how he does away with the jedi quickly and effectively with his pupil, and how he rises to power in the galaxy by manipulating the galactic senate.
It's true,each movie progresses the effects, by the time of TMP Lucas adds more effects and more fancy Jedi moves. It's a true progression.
That's simply not true about the duels. Aside from some of the duels which take up action in the clone wars (show some fighting/ combat), in every duel something important happens or later it's revealed as something that was important.
No it doesn't.
Now that would be something.
That would be cool but my brain can't watch up to 6 movies at the same time, only two. Which isn't saying much because we are conscious of the world around us as we watch a movie. It's really not that impressive of a skill.
6 movies at once I would be very impressed to see.
It was exhausting in the beginning but after some time you got used to it but you still had to pay more attention than in a normal movie. I always wantet to use this concept in a game but i haven't found time to yet.
Brilliant! The way I am able to watch two movies is to constantly look for things to tie the two together. I look for ideas that some how connect, link the two. Like when I watched The Others with The Farmers Wife, I analyzed people's emotions.
Anyways that sounds awesome! I really wish I could see that.
Of course you have to learn to look way at the appropriate times to see the other movie. It's some what difficult and straining.
was the film called Timecode?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timecode_(movie)
The entire film is one take, although they re-filmed the entire film many times + chose the best one.
It could be quite interesting to use split-screen in a real-time part of an adventure game, where you have several characters that start in one place + all go in different directions, or a split screen that appears for characters that are nearby + about to enter the story/room. If you were just splitting up your main characters they'd have to be doing something useful in real-time, or you might as well just use an icon in the corner of the screen to switch between characters + devote the full screen to the part you control. Split-screen is used quite effectively at times in the "interactive film" Indigo Prophecy (aka Fahrenheit) and I assume they reuse similar techniques in Heavy Rain.
Yep, i love split screens, you definately could use this idea in a interesting way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peY58LTW4zQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=uhmi1DvyM1g&feature=grec_index
It's done fairly well, worth watching for the sake of this topic anyways.
These are the kind of shows I hope for in Heaven
EDIT:
MORE HEAVEN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxZRYOAAQfE&feature=related
Star Wars - 80's TV Show Edition
Are you sure you didn't mean hell?
That was freaking beautiful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhDwi1rTBd4&feature=related
OH GOD! MY HEART'S RACING!!!!^^