Thoughts on 3D movies, tv, and gaming

edited June 2010 in General Chat
I figured I'd try and figure this out. The whole thing kind of confuses me. I don't see the point to 3D movies or television. The average experience I've had with it so far has been negative. The movies are hailed as amazing and groundbreaking but they are usually drab and unoriginal. I've also heard about how they are ruling the box office but my experience has been that the better a movie does in theaters the longer the wait for it to come to video. Yet the 3D movies are going to video faster. It's just distracting and takes away from the scene half the time. Also it causes blurring whenever there is motion.

As for the televisions I haven't found anyone who would actually buy them yet. I keep hearing about how they don't see why they'd pay for another new television again, especially when they don't want to watch television in 3D. This leads to my next point.

3D gaming just seems like a gimmick to me. It's a money sink and I can't see it really improving my gaming experience. The games that are coming out are easier, shorter, uninspired on average and I can't see making the game pop out at me changing any of those things.

I want to hear your takes on it now.
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Comments

  • edited June 2010
    My feeling on it is fairly similar to my feeling on things like motion control in video games. On that issue, I feel that it can be amazing when really well done but not always really necessary. The difference is that in this case, "necessary" pretty much drops to zero. I've seen one 3D movie, and while it was kind of cool, I also wasn't exactly blown away. Thankfully, I saw Monsters vs. Aliens, which while demonstrating a considerable amount of work visually, was also very well conceived and written, so I don't feel that the experience was a waste. Unlike a movie like Avatar which is hyped because of its "revolutionary" visuals but rests on a very weak story. But I digress.

    As far as incorporating the technology for home use... Well, I'd like to get a new TV, but I'm not really in the market right now. If I was, I certainly wouldn't mind getting a 3D TV...if it wasn't so ridiculously expensive. At this point, I consider it a gimmick that might be sort of cool but certainly isn't worth the expense. And on that front, I can't see the point in 3D gaming either.

    However, I do find myself excited about the 3DS...but for three main reasons almost entirely unconnected to the 3D aspect. Certainly, the thing has to be fairly powerful to support 3D, and I think it shows in the clarity of the display. It definitely appears to be a step up from the DS. Second, there's the analog stick. I admit, it took a game like Kingdom Hearts to make me wish that the DS had more buttons, mainly because this is the first game where the amount of control I wanted exceeded the number of buttons, but the touch screen was unavailable to fill this need due to the type of gameplay. I'm hoping that the analog stick will help fill this need, and hopefully it'll be better than the PSP "nub". And third, I'm excited for it because while there's one DSiWare game that I want, I just don't see the DSi as a big enough step up from the DS Lite to be worth the purchase. With a new DS model with actual new features on the way, this solves the problem for me.

    And I know this isn't a thread to talk about the 3DS's other features, I wanted to really illustrate the point that while I'm excited about it...I could basically care less about the 3D.

    So overall...yeah, I agree. 3D is sort of a cool technology, but it's mainly used as a gimmick that seems to have a tendency to overshadow actual creativity while draining the wallets of people who choose to indulge it far more than it's worth.
  • edited June 2010
    I feel indifferent about it, though I feel bad for a friend who's blind in one eye.
  • edited June 2010
    3D movies don't work for me. I still see two pictures with the glasses on (regardless on whether I keep on my own glasses or not) and it gives me headaches. People tell me you need to adapt to it but my experience is that it lasts the whole movie.
    I much prefer 2D movies that I can actually watch.

    As far as the 3DS goes, I wouldn't really care but they're releasing a new Paper Mario on it so I'll probably get it at some point. Just not at release.
  • edited June 2010
    Watching 3D movies gives me a migraine, so I'd rather that they remain a passing fad.

    Having said that, I did see Up in 3D and thought it was an appropriate use of 3D, not too much, not too little, and I didn't walk out of the theater with my head splitting open, so I suppose it could be well done.
  • edited June 2010
    If done well (and by that I mean using a non-headache inducing 3D), 3D is great and the experience is tons better than regular 2D movies or games.
    If you say 3D excludes people who are blind on one eye and shouldn't exist, then color TV shouldn't exist either, because people are color blind, or TV at all, because there are people who are blind on both eyes.

    I think the only ones doing it right are cinemas, where they give you the 3D glasses and you feel immersed with the huge screen and sound system and all, and I think that the 3DS is doing it right, not requiring any glasses, and giving you the hardware and the software together instead of requiring you to buy a TV + receiver + expensive movies + glasses + everything. Haven't seen the 3DS's 3D yet, but I heard it's awesome.

    I'm not interested in a 3D TV or 3D home console at this point.
  • TorTor
    edited June 2010
    Option 3: "I like 3D, but it's just a gimmick."
    3D has the potential of bringing some additional entertainment value. Unfortunately there are downsides; all of the current technologies have problems. Movies are sometimes just cheap cash-ins and the 3D effect isn't even done well in all cases. (For example; some 3D movies are recorded in 2D and the 3D effect is added in post production. This gives an unconvincing, "layered" look). Even if done right technically, some movies spend way too much time throwing stuff at the screen just to show you that "hey, it's in 3D!"

    I can see why the cinemas are doing so much 3D these days, it's a way of getting people out of their homes, and it might reduce piracy somewhat. This strategy will of course only work for as long as 3D TVs aren't common in private homes.

    I don't really see the big appeal of 3D in the home right now though. There are still too many drawbacks with the current technologies, and there's not yet enough 3D content available to justify purchasing a 3D TV screen.

    It seems more useful for games than for movies, because you can make existing 3D-rendered games utilize the 3D effect on a modern 3D display. Existing movies on the other hand cannot easily be converted to 3D with good results.

    I like 3D when it's done really well and it looks nice and natural, but interestingly that often means that after a while I forget that I'm watching 3D. I assume this is why some movies love to throw stuff at the screen, but that distracts from the experience in my opinion.

    3D display technologies:
    • Anaglyph: the glasses with the colored lenses. Very simple, and works with any TV or display screen. You frequently see DVDs in this format. Colors get distorted however, because each eye only gets a subset of the full color spectrum. Also, you can get substantial "bleed" where each eye sees some of the image that's meant for the other eye.
    • Shutter glasses: this is the technology used in current 3D TV sets and in 'Nvidia 3D Vision'. You have a set of glasses that alternately darkens the lenses for each eye. This gives a nice sharp image, but it introduces flicker. The effective refresh rate of the image you get is half of that of your display device. Older versions used 60 Hz, producing strong flicker at a headache-inducingly frequency of 30 Hz. Newer screens operate at 120 Hz for an effective flicker rate of 60 Hz which is much more tolerable. The glasses contain electronics (which adds weight and bulkiness) and need a power supply, either a cumbersome wire or a battery (for additional weight).
    • Polarized light: Used in 3D cinema. Two projectors shine two images at the same screen but with different polarization. Glasses with polarized lenses filter the image for each eye. This is the best 3D technology I've personally tested--you get good color and sharpness but there can be some bleed (much less than anaglyph though). As far as I know this technology has not been adapted for TV screens.
    • Lenticular display: No glasses. The screen has twice as many pixels as it usually would have. Lenses in front of each pixel sends the light in a specific direction, ensuring that each eye only sees half of the total number of pixels. This only works with one viewer at a time, and the viewer must keep their head in one specific spot relative to the screen. A head-tracking camera may be used to give the viewer greater freedom in positioning themselves, but it still only works for one person. I think this is what Nintendo 3DS uses.
  • edited June 2010
    That reminds me of one more thing I like about the 3DS. At first, I thought that slider on the right of the top screen was just a new and strange positioning for the volume slider, but that's actually to adjust the depth of the 3D feature, and it goes all the way down to "off" if you so desire.

    Also, something I didn't know: only the top screen supports 3D. I'm not surprised, and it makes sense, I just didn't already know this.
  • edited June 2010
    Keep your 3D. Not only does it make my eyes hurt, it's also blurry and distracting. I just want good movies.
  • edited June 2010
    Avatar 3D was beautiful with slow moving objects , the ash or lil wood spritey things , but when its fast action it just gave me a headace , I think 3D is a gimmic and many companys will go bust due to their faith in it
  • edited June 2010
    I've never seen the obsession with 3D but as i've not actually seen anything in 3D yet i'll withold my judgement.

    It doesn't seem as tangibly film-enhancing as HD did, because by the reviews it's just a way of making parlour tricks which would probably distract me from the actual program.
  • edited June 2010
    I only like 3D for movies that are made specifically for 3D viewing; movies where everything flies at the direction of the audience. Normal movies like, say, all future Pixar movies, I'd prefer watching them normally.
  • edited June 2010
    The funny thing about 3D is, that it's hip since decades.

    Fast wireframe 3D, fast polygon filled 3D, fast textured 3D, hardware accelerated (fast) 3D, flexible shader 3D, fast shader 3D, 3D on mobiles, fast and reasonable stereoscopic 3D, ...

    I think this will go on for another decades, until we'll have reached a sufficient quality&performance level.
  • edited June 2010
    [looks at the poll]

    Hmm. I choose none of the above.
  • edited June 2010
    Do Not Want.

    Until I get a chance to see the 3DS in action for myself in person, I will remain utterly unvconvinced about anything being in 3D. Until we get rid of the glasses, it will always remain gimmicky to me, and I can't stand that it suddenly seems to be making a massive comeback.

    I probably won't remain convinced until we can do 3D films or TV shows without making us wear glasses, by which point they may as well just get rid of the screen entirely and just have it as a hologram. That'd be awesome.
  • edited June 2010
    At birth, my optic nerves decided that they didn't want to work together. While in my later years I apparently have been able to coax them into working as a somewhat strained team, watching a 3D film gives me a terrible headache and the effect seems to fade in and out regardless.
  • edited June 2010
    I like the way 3D is now. It actually works, unlike the red and blue things.

    but for some people (Ex. Rather Dashing) it is just a huge pain.

    so I like it, but I hope it dosen't become the Everything must be done in this thing
  • edited June 2010
    I would have like 3D TV's if you don't have to wear glasses, those things are just too distracting for home viewing.
  • edited June 2010
    It's a gimmick that makes people pay more money to see a shitty movie.
  • edited June 2010
    I have never understood the appeal of 3d, sure, the image (sometimes) looks like it's popping out (in a weird way), but the color scheme is butchered by the weird flashing effect that it causes. The picture is shaking and ugly and nigh unwatchable. I have no clue how anyone could see that garbage and think it looked good.
  • edited June 2010
    isn't 3D just a new "special effect" ?

    Are special effects "bad" ?
    No.
    But anything that relies on any technological aspect to be its main selling point sucks.
    If in 10 years 3D is so widely used than no one even notices it anymore, then i won't care about it. Until then, it's probably gona keep pissing me off more than anything else.
  • edited June 2010
    3D isn't "new" considering it was a huge fad in the early 50's. In fact the MGM musical "Kiss Me Kate" was filmed in 3D back in 1953, as was "Dial M for Murder" in '54, and they were on the tail end of the fad. There was a resurgence of 3D films again in the early 80's, and again it died out pretty quickly. It seems like Hollywood just becomes obsessed with 3D every 30 years, and even after all this time they've never really gotten the hang of it.
  • edited June 2010
    It's not 3D that's new so much as it's the current 3D technology that's new, and that's why it's so huge now. 3D movies have been around forever, but the whole polarized light technique is still cutting edge, so naturally it has to be obsessed over.
  • edited June 2010
    It's not 3D that's new so much as it's the current 3D technology that's new, and that's why it's so huge now. 3D movies have been around forever, but the whole polarized light technique is still cutting edge, so naturally it has to be obsessed over.

    The polarized 3D crap has been around for 70+ years.
  • edited June 2010
    Well...I don't know what their excuse is, then. IMAX certainly isn't new, so it's not that. And I doubt that the production costs for the dual 3D projectors have really dropped so much recently that it would spark such a huge boom. Maybe it is just a revolving fad, coming back every 30 years like a damn comet.
  • edited June 2010
    Well the difference in technology for 3D is from how I understand it the new 3D televisions doesn't pop out at you. It actually makes everything have depth. So instead now it's supposed to be like you can see everything as if it was just a window there. From the only review on the technology that I've read they said that it doesn't have much of a lasting impact and the glasses even have a bit of weight to them since they have to communicate with the television.

    I agree with Lena P that the whole thing is a fad that keeps cropping up. My problem with it though is the fact that it's annoying. We are trading substance and go camera shots for the fact that it looks like something might possibly pop out at you? It's like if Telltale told you that they were going to make a 3D version of the first season of Sam and Max but it would have blissful Max for the whole thing and the jokes were being removed entirely. I know I'm being slightly more dramatic but it happens. The remake of Clash of the Titans was awful. They didn't think about the story line or the characters they only thought of how best to showcase a movie in 3D. While it might look cheesy I'll take the original any day.
  • edited June 2010
    3D is all well and good, but I don't want to watch 3D in a Cinema. It's was ok fun when they tried to include it to a kids show here in Denmark where you had to put these dumb huge paperboard glasses with the red and blue colours.

    But I am a huge fan of 4D movies, had a great time when I watched a little movie in Lego Land and Thorp Park. And the added physical effects was even more fun.

    So little movies meant for it is ok, but don't include it to the big screen, its to strenuous on the brain.
  • edited June 2010
    I literally know next to nothing about how films are made (unlike quite a few of the people on these forums and apparently half of the people who work at Telltale), but I've kind of wondered if the reason Hollywood doesn't make good use of 3D is because it's the opposite of how they usually film things?

    I mean, it seems like most of the time film makers are faking the shots you see. They're not in a huge mansion, they're in a relatively small set. The actors weren't really ten feet from that massive fireball, they were fifty feet away and were actually stunt doubles. It seems like it'd be hard to create a sense of depth when it didn't exist in real life.

    But animated features shouldn't have that problem, should they?
  • edited June 2010
    This is the same sort of problem we've always had in the console war. Look at this last iteration, the Wii received a lot of criticism over Nintendo's decision to not make such a graphically high-powered console, while Sony and Microsoft were trying to see who had the bigger penis better graphics. And a large subset of gamers ate it up. However, Nintendo was striving to create a more innovative and affordable console, and it worked. The Wii has sold almost as many consoles worldwide as the other two combined, and my only real lament would be that the lack of a hard drive is sometimes a hindrance. Except that there's still that good chunk of the subculture that still places graphics on a pedestal above all other features of a game. For example, from a section of this article, talking about Alan Wake:
    David Wong wrote:
    I'm browsing around gaming blogs and message boards and I'm getting worried. I see dozens of comments like this:

    23745.jpg?v=1

    Oh-oh. What's the complaint that has everyone up in arms? Is there a cheap twist at the end? Is the main character two-dimensional? Is there a frustrating minigame where you have to carefully groom Alan's pubic hair?

    No. It turns out somebody took a screenshot of the game, zoomed in 500 percent and counted up the pixels to make sure every frame was rendering at the maximum 720p resolution the Xbox 360 is capable of.

    23746.jpg?v=1

    It turned out some parts of some frames weren't. All hell broke loose.

    And because people throw fits like this over graphics, because so much of the consumer base places them on this pedestal, the Wii often gets passed over for certain titles because it can't keep up graphically. That's bullshit. I don't regret opting for the Wii as my console of choice, but it's gotten to the point where I can't get by with it as my only console anymore, and I'm having to save up for a PS3.

    And my point in bringing this up here is that this isn't just limited to gamers, it's just that many of them are particularly bad about it so they make a good example. My point is that our culture is, like the article says, obsessed with shiny things. And as long as media companies see that it works, they'll continue to produce media that favors visuals over substance.
  • edited June 2010
    I couldn't agree more with Guru. Sure, it's great to see how far technology can go and all, but so many people favour game graphics/ movie special effects / dubbing by big stars, etc that it becomes the focus sometimes.
    Don't get me wrong, good graphics, good special effects and a voice actor who happens to also be a big star can all be fine. But because they happen to work with the rest, not as a minimum requirement regardless of quality.

    Anyways. I wouldn't have a problem with 3D if I could actually see it. As long as they keep making both versions available I'm ok with it, though, I'm not against it on principle or anything like that.

    Also, I'm very happy with the Wii. At some point around... March, I think, my husband suggested we get another console, though. He was interested in the X-box 360 due to the... Bioware, is it? titles. I couldn't care less about either the PS3 and Xbox 360, but he put me in charge of researching which would be better because "I'm good with these things", apparently.
    I asked a few people, got pretty set on not wanting the PS3, talked to more people while mentioning I was leaning towards the 360, got lots of opinions about how the 360 sucked...
    Long story short, the choice was: neither. And now, 3 or so month later, we're both pretty happy we didn't get either (we were actually talking about it recently).

    So... I don't think it's that essential. But of course I'm less of a gamer than most people here, and I've always favoured handheld anyways (didn't have to share them).
  • edited June 2010
    ...excuse me if I'm overstepping any bounds, Guru, but how...er, is this rant related to the discussion of this thread?
  • edited June 2010
    My point is that our culture is, like the article says, obsessed with shiny things. And as long as media companies see that it works, they'll continue to produce media that favors visuals over substance.

    Well. I just lost my rant on the subject because the forum didn't let me post it, but this sentence sums it all up anyway, so 'ill leave it to that.

    Technology sucks anyway. Off to throw this computer out the window and start living like a caveman.
  • edited June 2010
    ...excuse me if I'm overstepping any bounds, Guru, but how...er, is this rant related to the discussion of this thread?

    There are similarities. Wanting everything to be 3D and wanting to add more pixels and wanting to add more CGI and so on are similar.
    Technology sucks anyway. Off to throw this computer out the window and start living like a caveman.

    Technology rocks. But the point of technology isn't, in my opinion, "let's push this specific thing more and more and more!" but "let's use technology to fit our needs". These things are too one-tracked for my tastes. Technology isn't a single track thing, it's more like a tree, each new improvement can lead to many different things. Why only focus on a specific aspect and try to push it past a reasonable point?

    And why, as a consumer, wanting something bigger every time there is a new release? "It HAS to have better graphics" or "it HAS to be a long movie" or whatever, I just find that ridiculous. Why don't you try to enjoy the game or movie as a whole? Graphics and special effects and the like are only tools use to tell the story (if there is one). Caring only about these is like caring about the font of you book more than its words. Or even caring more about the cover. It just beats me. Technology is a means, not an end. It's good to find ways to improve it constantly, but don't lose sight of the end, because if there isn't one, what's the point?
  • edited June 2010
    ...excuse me if I'm overstepping any bounds, Guru, but how...er, is this rant related to the discussion of this thread?

    What Avistew said. The weird thing is, this isn't the first time recently that I've posted somewhere and used a somewhat distant analogy without tying it as securely to the main subject as I intended.

    But yeah, my point was that this is a problem prevalent in multiple aspects of our culture, and the video game thing is just a more exaggerated example of the problem behind 3D movies, driven by the same cultural flaw, and as such, I felt that it did a better job of illustrating that flaw.
  • edited June 2010
    Avistew wrote: »
    Technology rocks. But the point of technology isn't, in my opinion, "let's push this specific thing more and more and more!" but "let's use technology to fit our needs". These things are too one-tracked for my tastes. Technology isn't a single track thing, it's more like a tree, each new improvement can lead to many different things. Why only focus on a specific aspect and try to push it past a reasonable point?

    And why, as a consumer, wanting something bigger every time there is a new release? "It HAS to have better graphics" or "it HAS to be a long movie" or whatever, I just find that ridiculous. Why don't you try to enjoy the game or movie as a whole? Graphics and special effects and the like are only tools use to tell the story (if there is one). Caring only about these is like caring about the font of you book more than its words. Or even caring more about the cover. It just beats me. Technology is a means, not an end. It's good to find ways to improve it constantly, but don't lose sight of the end, because if there isn't one, what's the point?

    Don't worry, i pretty much agree and was just trying to be funny.
    As you said, technique is only a tool.
    A hammer doesn't suck and is actually pretty cool and useful. But hanging a hammer on the wall in a museum would sound pretty stupid, wouldn't it ? (maybe they'll do in a few centuries tho, in some exposition about our barbaric age, but hey that's not the point).
    It's the obsessing about technique that sucks and somehow makes me wanna run away from anything "shiny".

    So yeah, you're right, technology doesn't suck, but hanging it on walls does.
    Ooga Booga.
  • edited June 2010
    But yeah, my point was that this is a problem prevalent in multiple aspects of our culture, and the video game thing is just a more exaggerated example of the problem behind 3D movies, driven by the same cultural flaw, and as such, I felt that it did a better job of illustrating that flaw.

    It really compared well once the connection was there and it's easier to see several other connections to industry problems that are exemplified in 3D. The fact that it's not about making a better product, that they aren't looking at what people are wanting to see, the way that they are looking for the easiest route to making a buck. It's all there. It's really not me being upset over 3D or feeling that it shouldn't be there. It's more of how it reminds me of all the other things that bug me about the industries that I patronize and I think that I'm not the only one that feels that way. But as always I could be wrong, and I could be rambling.
  • edited June 2010
    But as always I could be wrong, and I could be rambling.

    Except that the general consensus seems to be that you're right. Not that that necessarily means anything, but I'm inclined to think it does. Of course, I'm part of that consensus, so...
  • edited June 2010
    Well, we've managed to pick up a 3D TV (thanks to my dad's birthday). I must say, it's actually quite splendid. Sure, it's ridiculously expensive, but playing games in 3D gives them an entirely new depth. It's not all about things popping out. It's more of adding more detail to the environment. The Blu-Ray doubled with 3D gives it an absolutely stunning experience.

    Sure, the glasses are fairly silly, but they work really well.
  • edited June 2010
    I don't know if anyone has said it here but

    "come back when I have a holodeck, ala Star Trek"

    The 3DS is most definitely a step in the right direction, with being able to scale the 3D on a slider (which may be analogue) along with not needing glasses. On top of this there are those that have only sight in one eye, who are entirely deprived of the experience with current tech. 3D is being pushed out the door faster than it should as Sony are in a hole financially. Hitachi are ahead of them with the physical tech, which is the screen used in the 3DS.
  • edited June 2010
    I don't mind the occasional 3D movie here and there, but I don't think I could play a game, as long as they are, in 3D. It would be far too exhausting. Hopefully the 3DS (glasses-free) technology will start something new.
  • edited June 2010
    Yeah, I'm not interested in 3D glasses unless I'm at a theme park (love Terminator 2 3D and MuppetVision 3D) but I'm really looking forward to the 3DS because it is a freaking hologram
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