Politics in Sam & Max?

edited June 2010 in Sam & Max
Aside from the less-subtle references to various private body parts, I think the TellTale writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel for jokes. Maybe some fresh minds are needed. I was offended by the name used for the dinosaur exhibit in the museum. It shows a sophomoric view of politics that only mind-numbed liberals could possess. I'm waiting to draw my final conclusions about the likelihood that I will purchase another TellTale game - to see if there are any references to Doofus Pelosius, Rankus Reedius, or Hurlus Huseinus Obamanus. That would at least show a relatively balanced imbalanced humor. Gee, I wonder if this post will make it past the free-speech police at Tell Tale?
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Comments

  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited June 2010
    dudleyjohn wrote: »
    Gee, I wonder if this post will make it past the free-speech police at Tell Tale?

    Because there's a political joke which leans left, there's a free-speech police? Please. The persecution complex which both sides of American politics seem to obsess over to no end is the most tiring thing.

    Or were you making a pun on "freelance police" that went over my head?
  • edited June 2010
    If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure both President Max and Sammun-Mak are republicans.
  • edited June 2010
    I though President Max was a Max-ist. It all benefits Max
  • edited June 2010
    Ehh... I can see how this topic can go downhill faster than a wheelbarrow full of pancakes. ^^;

    I think the games seem pretty balanced with jabs to both main (and non) American political parties. There are plenty of things, not related to politics, that are offensive in all the Sam and Max seasons. All the things that are offensive to me I take in stride because there are other jokes that I find that are funny that may be offensive to others.

    Sam & Max and their universe jabs at popular culture. With that in mind, of course they will do something offensive to someone.

    I've learned to laugh at myself (especially in my line of work). It's never a good thing to be uptight (or at least, not all the time). ^^;
  • edited June 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    The persecution complex which both sides of American politics seem to obsess over to no end is the most tiring thing.

    This. It's frightening to see how willingly people lump themselves into a pre-set system of opinions. What's even more scary is how they fly off the handle over the most harmless of jokes.

    I love Sam & Max, but really, it's not exactly a world-changing medium. In the grand scheme of things, I highly doubt that a throwaway gag in a segment of a game about an anthropomorphic crime-fighting duo is important enough to even raise an eyebrow at, let alone actually get angry over.

    If a one-liner in a work of fiction means that the writers agree with the message, then I'd be more concerned with just about anything Max says than with a light political jab. "Oh sure, I have no problem with a cute bunny declaring the virtues of murder, genocide, and general blind hatred, but don't you dare make fun of my political party!" How does that make any sense?

    Of course, it doesn't matter, since a writer CAN write opposing viewpoints. And better yet, there's a thing out there called "self-parody". Give it a try sometime. Life's way too short to constantly rage at everything that doesn't support your self-righteousness.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited June 2010
    Epic Kiwi wrote: »
    If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure both President Max and Sammun-Mak are republicans.

    I've always thought that if any party could really claim Max it would be the Libertarians, but I haven't really thought that hard about it.
  • edited June 2010
    So ... this isn't about how in "Abe Lincoln Must Die" the CIA have supplanted the president with a puppet that's hypnotizing the American people? And that the only way to win the election is through a vigorous mudslinging campaign? Huh. Okay then!
  • edited June 2010
    Um... I hate to expose my own stupidity here, but, um... What exactly is the political significance of Pollosaurus Henway?
  • edited June 2010
    No clue. I thought it was a chicken joke (pollo=chicken hen=chicken)
  • edited June 2010
    Don%27t+feed+the+troll.jpg
  • edited June 2010
    Same.
    Guess it's something only US-gamers would understand?
  • edited June 2010
    I was mortified to see max complaining about the introduction of compulsory gun registration in 104. Clearly telltale is not only havily biased to the right, they're probably taking money off the NRA. I'm never buying another telltale product again.

    Note: non-serious post.
  • edited June 2010
    Lena_P wrote: »
    So ... this isn't about how in "Abe Lincoln Must Die" the CIA have supplanted the president with a puppet that's hypnotizing the American people? And that the only way to win the election is through a vigorous mudslinging campaign? Huh. Okay then!

    Oh that's easy. Licoln is one of the most influential people ever. Max could never win an election if his life depended on it and It's just a game you should really just relax
  • edited June 2010
    One thing against political humor is that they tend not to travel: if there is any political significance in the exhibit's faux Latin names, I missed all of them.

    A "Henway" is a set-up of a certain kind of joke, which goes as follows:

    Q: What is a henway?
    A: 4-6 pounds; a henway (hen weight) is the weight of a hen.
  • edited June 2010
    Oh man dudleyjohn if you thought that one joke was bad you should probably avoid the last couple of seasons of Family Guy. You would have a stroke if you saw them and...

    Actually scratch that, go watch them!
  • edited June 2010
    Cannot remember any political stuff in the museum... Remember seeing "1969 - first fake moon landing" and chuckling. Where was the political stuff? Oh and can you explain it also if it's likely not to make sense to a Brit? :D
  • edited June 2010
    Lena_P wrote: »
    So ... this isn't about how in "Abe Lincoln Must Die" the CIA have supplanted the president with a puppet that's hypnotizing the American people? And that the only way to win the election is through a vigorous mudslinging campaign? Huh. Okay then!

    For that matter, I always assumed the president/puppet himself was another big parody of George Dubya. But I guess that's nowhere near as politically offensive as mocking our national bird, the chicken!
  • edited June 2010
    Cannot remember any political stuff in the museum... Remember seeing "1969 - first fake moon landing" and chuckling. Where was the political stuff? Oh and can you explain it also if it's likely not to make sense to a Brit? :D

    I saw nothing political either, and I'm an American. well, An American from the US part
  • edited June 2010
    Actually, it wasn't the dinosaur exhibit. My mistake. It was the poisonous plant exhibit next to the dinosaur exhibit.

    I find it revealing that people with liberal political views are extremely circumspect when a conservative is being lambasted. It it were a liberal (or even further left) figure that took a barb, they would be up in arms and organizing an embargo - or trying to find a liberal judge somewhere to ban the game.

    My point in all of this is that a GAME should avoid stirring up current political disputes. A GAME is supposed to be an escape from reality, not another medium for one side to attack the other side with supposed impunity.

    Sam & Max has always been one of my favorite games. I dislike having unbalanced political satire injected just so the writers can gain some kind of ephemeral brownie points with their friends. I would find it much more humorous if BOTH sides came under scrutiny. So far, it hasn't been that way.

    btw - the free speech police was a pun on free lance police.
  • edited June 2010
    What poisonous plant?
  • edited June 2010
    dudleyjohn wrote: »
    I find it revealing that people with liberal political views are extremely circumspect when a conservative is being lambasted. It it were a liberal (or even further left) figure that took a barb, they would be up in arms and organizing an embargo - or trying to find a liberal judge somewhere to ban the game.

    lol wut
  • edited June 2010
    Would someone who remembers the plant's name please post it? I don't want to go through the whole game again so early.
  • edited June 2010
    my guess is that it's name was chuck (it's a plant, after all), but I'll check
  • edited June 2010
    make max UK primitive in season 4 do it it wood be fun ad lest to me I live in the UK and ps max wood say yes tow dower next Japan den the then germane de make Jungian be my foot stool
    what did you think max wood say
  • edited June 2010
    Aha! I must have missed that when I played through the first time.

    Behind the dinosaur and to the left is a poisonous plant called the "Toxicodendron Palinus," and the plaque says that it was an even more powerful irritant than its modern day counterpart. It's an obvious reference to Sarah Palin. It's really not that politically charged, though; it's just calling her annoying. (I don't care if you're a Republican and actually agree with her political views; don't tell me her very personality isn't annoying as hell.)

    And then behind and to the right of the dinosaur is another plant called the "Osmunda Kincaidium." The plaque says that it's also known as "The Boring Fern," and that there is nothing significant or interesting about it. I'm not sure whom this is referring to. I tried googling "Osmund Kincaid" and came up with nothing.

    And then there's the bacon plant in front of the dinosaur that I'm sure everyone saw.
  • edited June 2010

    And then behind and to the right of the dinosaur is another plant called the "Osmunda Kincaidium." The plaque says that it's also known as "The Boring Fern," and that there is nothing significant or interesting about it. I'm not sure whom this is referring to. I tried googling "Osmund Kincaid" and came up with nothing.

    Reason for this: Osmunda is really a genus of fern plants.
  • edited June 2010
    Seems fine? Is just a little jokey referencey thing that comedic adventure games do all the time. Kincaid is a part of Alaska isn't it?
  • edited June 2010
    Umm. Yeah. I wouldn't say it obviously poking fun at Sarah Palin. I wouldn't think of her at first, or second.

    only when it's pointed out to me that it could mean Sarah Palin. MY first thirty thoughts would be of poisonous plants
  • edited June 2010
    Honestly the only joke I recall about the plant was the whole thing with Sammun-Mak talking about its illicit uses, prompting me to immediately attempt to explode a hydrogen zeppelin overhead.
  • edited June 2010
    Behind the dinosaur and to the left is a poisonous plant called the "Toxicodendron Palinus," and the plaque says that it was an even more powerful irritant than its modern day counterpart. It's an obvious reference to Sarah Palin.

    Obvious reference? It isn't that obvious, and I don't see why someone would be so mad about a plant's name. It's a plant in a game!
  • edited June 2010
    Ha! I totally missed that! :D That's so perfect. I'm going to pretend the Kincaid plant is referring to Thomas Kincaid, since it sums up his "art work" perfectly.
  • edited June 2010
    As I learned: If most don't understand your joke, it might not be a great joke or you pegged your audience wrong. ^^;

    On my first play through, I knew it was referencing something (almost everything in Sam & Max references something) since the name sounded familiar and the comment about beautiful things being deadly (or in this case, poisonous). Everything that is clickable, I want to believe the writers are trying to squeeze as much humor into that object/person/etc as possible. They wouldn't have "filler" dialog, especially on something that isn't important to the story. (Text-only adventures don't have that problem of carefully selecting their dialog because they aren't charged by the hour on voice actors. ...Of course, this is off topic... ^^; )

    It was on my second playthrough and reading the first post in this topic that it clicked into place. It wasn't even that great of a joke anyways... ^^;
  • edited June 2010
    My point in all of this is that a GAME should avoid stirring up current political disputes. A GAME is supposed to be an escape from reality, not another medium for one side to attack the other side with supposed impunity.

    to be honest, i'd like to think games are another form of discourse in the same way a book or a film can be or even at least have the potential to be. to deny telltale this shows a disturbing will to limit their creative minds. i think the comedy in sam and max is at its best when it is satirical (social and political, remember there's quit a few jabs certain celebrities too, remember?). to me, it is integral to what makes sam and max what it is, we love them for the skewed, sarcastic silliness and acerbic one liners.

    to pander to anybody else's whims (or whinges, sorry dude but it had to be said) would mean it couldn't be a properly functioning sam and max game. imagine if some elvis fan got so upset about the references in Hit the Road?
    Sam & Max has always been one of my favorite games. I dislike having unbalanced political satire injected just so the writers can gain some kind of ephemeral brownie points with their friends. I would find it much more humorous if BOTH sides came under scrutiny. So far, it hasn't been that way.

    ahh so politics IS allowed now for discussion? make up your mind mate. you know, i think its funny a right winger can come on this board and start telling anybody to be "Fair & Balanced". lets not forget the same phrase is used by one of the most blatantly opinionated media organisations (its not a news network and you know it) which plugs its half arsed assertions (and out right lies) through lunatics like glenn beck.

    but do you know what? its still there. am i shocked by the content and at how partisan it is? yeah but do i believe in freedom of speech, 'course i effing well do. do you think more people play sam and max than watch fox? (i really wish they would to be honest!) what then has more influence?

    well, you didn't want politics (of the supposedly wrong kind) to disturb your escapist fantasy dreamland of the game but as the games industry matures, the games will too. (obviously there's still need of for the sarcastic immaturity of max) do really want to restrict games to never develop further than being seen as only as children's toys?
  • edited June 2010
    Fanofmalcomtucker, you are very narrowminded. Then again also Dudleyjohn. This is one of the reasons why I hate messageboards. Making big deals about stupid jokes and making bigoted remarks at one another.

    Dudley, play more of the previous seasons' episodes. You'll find that they are pretty balanced about jokes.

    Malcom, some people DO find games as an escapist entertainment. Heck, why can't we all just get off our butts and actually be sports stars, astronauts, or detectives? Because sometimes, it's just not possible and we want to kinda live out our fantasies without hindrance. Hence why some people get angry that developers might force players to go in their world view in order to complete a game.

    This doesn't pertain really to Sam & Max since, as I said before, they make fun of everything. So if you aren't able to laugh at yourself, I don't think you'll have a fun time playing.

    And what's wrong with videogames classified as "childrens' toys"? It kinda reminds me of a quote I found a week ago:
    "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C. S. Lewis
  • edited June 2010
    dudleyjohn wrote: »
    Aside from the less-subtle references to various private body parts, I think the TellTale writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel for jokes. Maybe some fresh minds are needed. I was offended by the name used for the dinosaur exhibit in the museum. It shows a sophomoric view of politics that only mind-numbed liberals could possess. I'm waiting to draw my final conclusions about the likelihood that I will purchase another TellTale game - to see if there are any references to Doofus Pelosius, Rankus Reedius, or Hurlus Huseinus Obamanus. That would at least show a relatively balanced imbalanced humor. Gee, I wonder if this post will make it past the free-speech police at Tell Tale?

    Or you could look at "Night of the Raving Dead", where from my memory there was an option for dig at Pelosi (and quite possibly other political figures, although I cannot remember) during
    Sam and Max's emo rapping for the zombies
    .

    Take the joke for what it is, laugh or don't, and move on. That's how life works :o
  • edited June 2010
    The only political satire I have seen in the game this series is when you talk to the elves in reel one in little christmas ville or where ever it is they live. You know, the ones that will trade you the magical can of beans for a good toy idea. If you suggest to them they make a monoploy like board game one of the cracks a joke and says, "the kids aren't into capitalism now adays". Of course, during the early 20th century social theory was quite popular but seriously the political jokes in Sam and Max aren't that bad.

    Actually what's even funnier is if you go back to season two episode three, Night of the Raving Dead. One of the things Max can say when trying to out rap Jurgeon is, "we're going to rock your house like Nancy Pelosi," but I can't believe that they wrote that line with a straight face. Not to mention the puppet president in episode four of season one looks a lot like George Jr. But hey, come on. You could do a lot worse when it comes to political humor like Family Guy or South Park. The Teltale jokes are tasteful at least unlike some 'other' cartoons.

    Oh and almost forgot, it is still just a game!
  • edited June 2010
    dudleyjohn wrote: »
    I find it revealing that people with liberal political views are extremely circumspect when a conservative is being lambasted. It it were a liberal (or even further left) figure that took a barb, they would be up in arms and organizing an embargo - or trying to find a liberal judge somewhere to ban the game.

    I can't speak for others, but I'd have laughed just the same if the plant was called "Palinus" or "Bidenus". As I said earlier, life's too short to spend it getting offended by everything and hating on entire groups of people.
    My point in all of this is that a GAME should avoid stirring up current political disputes. A GAME is supposed to be an escape from reality, not another medium for one side to attack the other side with supposed impunity.

    A medium can't be anything that you don't let it be. Look at your original post: you let a throwaway gag that most didn't even *notice* set you on a tirade of leftist bashing. Maybe you should be blaming yourself for "stirring up political disputes", not Telltale.

    What kills me is that the entirety of Abe Lincoln Must Die! didn't bother you, but an extremely subtle and lighthearted jab at Palin does.
  • edited June 2010
    So wait, it's news that Sam and Max is at least a bit left leaning? Go play Abe Lincoln Must Die again. Look around the Oval Office. It's pretty obvious that TTG is liberal-inclined. I just don't see why that has to be the end of the world. Why is it in America, whenever someone disagrees with you, there is automatic assumption they don't have a good reason for doing it? That there is inherent malice in it?

    It's not the return of Yog-Saggoth, it just means someone has different peers, economic/political theories, and life experiences than you. At worst they may be misinformed and at very best maybe you could even learn something from them. Though the word "bipartisan" has been abused to create false equivalencies, the spirit of the sentiment is worth embracing.

    If that's too much, then "good faith" should suffice. That means not automatically assuming the other side is out to stifle or insult you just by expressing their opinions. Both sides need to refrain from ad hominem for that to happen though, and the usual levels of American political discourse doesn't seem to grasp that. It's kind of sad.
  • edited June 2010
    dudleyjohn wrote: »
    That would at least show a relatively balanced imbalanced humor.

    Previous seasons have jibed at Clinton, Pelosi, Gore and Eisenhower. So for balance, we need at least one more jibe at Republicans.
  • edited June 2010
    I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. How can you possibly get pissed at Telltale for one very mild and pretty tasteful joke, that in no way attacks you personally or even attacks your political party? Taking a jab at Sarah Palin is in no way different from taking a jab at Warren G. Harding or Ulysses S. Grant. It's behind us as a nation, so we really shouldn't care. Sarah Palin isn't that great a national figure, anyway. If she mattered for squat, she'd be VP.
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