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Batman versus Batman Returns

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  • Chyron8472Chyron8472
    edited June 2010
    The Penguin was a disgusting character, and Jack Nicholson is a great Joker.

    Though the songs by Prince annoy me, I still vote Batman.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited June 2010
    Batman. I never liked Batman Returns. It was just a terrible superhero movie in retrospect, and the only reason I liked it was for Keaton and Walken.
  • Chyron8472Chyron8472
    edited June 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    It was just a terrible superhero movie in retrospect

    I wouldn't say Batman Returns was terrible. I would qualify Tommy-Lee Jones' Two-Face character from Batman Forever and the entire Batman & Robin movie as terrible.
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited June 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    Batman. I never liked Batman Returns. It was just a terrible superhero movie in retrospect, and the only reason I liked it was for Keaton and Walken.

    I'll pretend I didn't read the first bit.

    The second bit, you don't like Michelle Phifer as catwoman??

    ??
  • corruptbigginscorruptbiggins
    edited June 2010
    Batman. By far. Returns is all right which makes it still far better than & Robin and Forever.
  • MusicallyInspiredMusicallyInspired
    edited June 2010
    Batman. I enjoyed Returns quite a bit, but the first one is just a little bit better. I personally think Tim Burton is best when he doesn't have free reign to do whatever he wants and Returns was just over the top in his style. Way too bizarre. Batman, on the other hand, had just the right amount of eerie-ness and was a great balance of all atmospheres overall. It's just perfect.

    The scores from both movies were excellent, though. The main theme is the greatest main theme to ever be composed.
  • ShaggEShaggE
    edited June 2010
    I absolutely adore the visual atmosphere of Returns, but Jack's Joker singlehandedly makes the first my favorite.
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited June 2010
    ^^I love the visuals of both movies too, it's why I became a Tim Burton fan. I even love(d) Edward Scissor Hands. Though, I'm now very sick of Jonny Depp.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPuOXSOSFRY&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtSpNyy_8VQ&feature=related

    I honestly can't decide between the two movies, but I gotta stand up for cat-woman. One of my favorite movie characters.
  • FriarFriar
    edited June 2010
    I preffer Returns. The penguin just had a better backstory.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited June 2010
    I didn't like Michelle as Catwoman no. I prefer the Catwoman in the comics; the one who doesn't have some asinine supernatural flesh eating cat magic bring her back to life. And as a comedy, I liked Batman Forever. Not as a good superhero movie, no, but as a bit of campy fun I liked it well enough. Batman Returns was just uncomfortable and awkward to watch no matter how I look at it.
  • MusicallyInspiredMusicallyInspired
    edited June 2010
    Forever wasn't as campy as & Robin was. & Robin was way more of a comedy than Forever. Forever could almost be taken seriously, I think.
  • MusicallyInspiredMusicallyInspired
    edited June 2010
    Seeing as she's alive at the end of the movie I'd say it's a safe bet to say she's not dead.
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited June 2010
    MusicallyInspired wrote: »
    Seeing as she's alive at the end of the movie I'd say it's a safe bet to say she's not dead.

    LOL I deleted my post because I forget if it's in quotes or not. She leans on that whole 9 lives thing. :p

    It's debatable that she's just crazy but at the end of the movie she's alive.
  • MusicallyInspiredMusicallyInspired
    edited June 2010
    Oh great. Now my post looks stupid lol.
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited June 2010
    MusicallyInspired wrote: »
    Oh great. Now my post looks stupid lol.

    I said that she falls through the tarps but the movie didn't ever state that she actually died, and she showed very little injury to her body.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited June 2010
    I hate to say this, but I do sort of think Batman: Mask of the Phantasm ripped off Batman Returns a bit. Both female leads, Andrea and Selina go out at the end with a huge bang taking the main villains they wanted revenge on with them, and both are given a scene at the end of the movie that pretty much tells you they're alive. This is so similar for both movies, and the fact Returns came out in 1992 and Phantasm in 1993, that it's hard for me to write it off.

    ...

    Phantasm did it better anyway because Hamill's Joker was laughing at the time. Walken turned into a dead guy and he wasn't Mark Hamill playing the Joker, therefore he was not Mark Hamill laughing. This alone is enough to write off Batman Returns whatsoever, because it didn't have Mark Hamill laughing, the abomination.
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited June 2010
    I haven't seen Mask of the Phantom since it came out, way back when. Best Batman cartoon ever made, no doubt.
    It's been a long time.
  • OzzieMonkeyOzzieMonkey
    edited June 2010
    After watching the first movie several times, I ended up never wanting to watch it for a while, because I was genuinely scared of the joker. It was that smile that got to me. That resulted in me being afraid of clowns. Anyways, I got over that a while ago, so I'm good now, and funny enough its my favourite of the 4 Batman films. The Dark Knight is my all-time favourite though.
  • MusicallyInspiredMusicallyInspired
    edited June 2010
    Nuh uh. Batman '89 kicks all the 6 other live-action Batman movies' butts!
  • ShaggEShaggE
    edited June 2010
    OzzieMonkey wrote: »
    After watching the first movie several times, I ended up never wanting to watch it for a while, because I was genuinely scared of the joker. It was that smile that got to me. That resulted in me being afraid of clowns.

    I've always found it funny that so many people were traumatized by scary clowns as children, since for me, it just cemented my love of them. Seeing Killer Klowns From Outer Space and Batman as a kid pretty much made me a diehard fan of evil clowns.
  • PimPamPetPimPamPet
    edited June 2010
    MusicallyInspired wrote: »
    Nuh uh. Batman '89 kicks all the 6 other live-action Batman movies' butts!

    Quoted for truth.

    I just can't watch Batman Forever or Batman & Robin without getting extremely angry. How did they mess those movies up so bad? Was it all just one big joke to the producers?

    The recent movies (Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) were a big improvement but I still prefer the first ones by Burton. They got (mostly) everything right. And... Nicholson's Joker >>> Ledger's.
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited June 2010
    PimPamPet wrote: »
    Quoted for truth.

    I just can't watch Batman Forever or Batman & Robin without getting extremely angry. How did they mess those movies up so bad? Was it all just one big joke to the producers?

    The recent movies (Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) were a big improvement but I still prefer the first ones by Burton. They got (mostly) everything right. And... Nicholson's Joker >>> Ledger's.

    You speak my language! :D
  • AscovelAscovel
    edited June 2010
    Batman Returns by far. Batman (89) is decent, but Returns is the best super-hero film ever.
  • VeronicanPlayVeronicanPlay
    edited June 2010
    I liked Batman Returns more, especially when I was a kid.

    Batman was boring, Batman forever was horrible, and Batman and Robin, well when I was younger I enjoyed it, but I have grown enough now to see just how bad it is.

    The 2 new Batman are really good, and can't wait and see what is in store for us in the next one. :)
  • Chyron8472Chyron8472
    edited July 2010
    VeronicanPlay wrote: »
    I liked Batman Returns more, especially when I was a kid.
    [...]Batman and Robin, well when I was younger I enjoyed it, but I have grown enough now to see just how bad it is.
    PimPamPet wrote: »
    I just can't watch Batman Forever or Batman & Robin without getting extremely angry. How did they mess those movies up so bad? Was it all just one big joke to the producers?

    That's the main problem with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin: they are catered more toward children, and have WAY too much camp as a nod to the Adam West Batman TV show. Really... it's about a man who dresses up as a bat to frighten his enemies, fights crime mostly at night, and lives in a place called Gotham City. It's supposed to be dark, not campy.

    Regarding Batman & Robin, watch the Nostalgia Critic's review of it. He's absolutely right about everything, especially the Bat-credit-card, Robin being a whiny brat and Poison Ivy saying "curses!".

    Regarding Batman Forever, I personally don't see how it could have ever been a success other than that people liked the first two movies and went at least once to the third one, thinking it might also be good. I am convinced that it is Jim Carrey's Riddler alone that saves this movie from being as stupid and infuriating as Batman & Robin is. Tommy Lee Jones is a good actor in general, but he's a terrible Two Face. Two Face was disfigured by acid being thrown at him in the comics, and he's crime boss. Crime bosses (especially Two Face in the comics) aren't known for laughing so maniacally that it sounds fake, and corrosive acid isn't known for turning the skin on your face into fluorescent purple plastic. I hated Tommy Lee Jones' Two Face. I also hated that they put fluorescent paint on the walls and the faces of people wherever there was gang activity. Tommy-guns look stupid when you affix circular neon lights to the cartridge. Also, Micheal Keaton is a better Batman than Val Kilmer. All of this was bad enough that Robin didn't bother me by comparison.

    Really, how was Batman Forever a success? That movie sucked really bad.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited July 2010
    Hamill's Joker > all. That is the definitive Joker.

    I also think Tim Drake in the Animated Series and arguably, Teen Titans is a better Robin than any other. If a live action Robin was done more like that, or like the comics, I'd like it.
  • MusicallyInspiredMusicallyInspired
    edited July 2010
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    Really... it's about a man who dresses up as a bat to frighten his enemies, fights crime mostly at night, and lives in a place called Gotham City. It's supposed to be dark, not campy.

    Funny. A lot of people consider those things to be what makes it so campy and laughable. They criticise Begins and Dark Knight for taking the concept way too seriously. Most people I know and talk to consider Batman the silliest (yet awesomest) super hero ever.
  • VeronicanPlayVeronicanPlay
    edited July 2010
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    That's the main problem with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin: they are catered more toward children, and have WAY too much camp as a nod to the Adam West Batman TV show. Really... it's about a man who dresses up as a bat to frighten his enemies, fights crime mostly at night, and lives in a place called Gotham City. It's supposed to be dark, not campy.

    Regarding Batman & Robin, watch the Nostalgia Critic's review of it. He's absolutely right about everything, especially the Bat-credit-card, Robin being a whiny brat and Poison Ivy saying "curses!".

    Regarding Batman Forever, I personally don't see how it could have ever been a success other than that people liked the first two movies and went at least once to the third one, thinking it might also be good. I am convinced that it is Jim Carrey's Riddler alone that saves this movie from being as stupid and infuriating as Batman & Robin is. Tommy Lee Jones is a good actor in general, but he's a terrible Two Face. Two Face was disfigured by acid being thrown at him in the comics, and he's crime boss. Crime bosses (especially Two Face in the comics) aren't known for laughing so maniacally that it sounds fake, and corrosive acid isn't known for turning the skin on your face into fluorescent purple plastic. I hated Tommy Lee Jones' Two Face. I also hated that they put fluorescent paint on the walls and the faces of people wherever there was gang activity. Tommy-guns look stupid when you affix circular neon lights to the cartridge. Also, Micheal Keaton is a better Batman than Val Kilmer. All of this was bad enough that Robin didn't bother me by comparison.

    Really, how was Batman Forever a success? That movie sucked really bad.

    I agree 100%, they are more aimed at kids, because if I was ever to watch them now I would definitely do a /facepalm and think, was was they thinking when they made this?
    I haven't seen any of the old batman for many years now, and I don't think I will ever watch them again.

    I can honestly say I don't even remember the slightest bit of what happens in the first batman, it was just that boring to me.

    Batman Returns I watched over and over, I liked The Penguin and Cat Woman. So I remember that movie to heart, as it was my favourite. Now a days I don't really give it that much thought.

    I agree with Batman Forever just being a terrible movie, Two Face was badly made, now the Two Face we see in Dark Knight is really scary. Jim Carry as The Riddler was just a wrong move on their part, I think I heard from someone that Batman Forver was quickly thrown together because Jim was getting crazy and wanted to do a movie. And yes, Val Kilmer was was a bad choice for batman.

    Batman and Robin I really liked as a kid, lots of fun going on in that movie and I laughed a lot. But now, I can see that the plot is really weak and Uma Thurman did a horrible Poison Ivy. George Clooney was the worst choice for Batman, I mean since when did Bruce's hair go grey so fast? Don't get me wrong I really like George, but not as Batman. Robin was doing my head in, and Batgirl/woman had an attitude that could drive me up the wall.
    The only thing that really saved it a little, was Arnold as Mr. Freeze. Just too bad the movie was so dull and the rest of the cast to be wrong.
  • Chyron8472Chyron8472
    edited July 2010
    Case in point for Two-Face (I have to do this. I really hated Tommy Lee Jones' portrayal.):

    Two-face from the comics:
    300pxtwoface2.jpg batmanannual14.png

    Two-face from Batman: The Animated Series:
    20080922092529twoface.png


    Two-Face from The Dark Knight:
    twofaceeckhart.jpg



    and... Two Face from Batman Forever:
    jones2.jpg



    Tommy Lees Jones just looks retarded, and it's made worse by the fact that he laughs and cackles more than The Joker does. He's a crime boss. He's supposed to be menacing.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited July 2010
    The most retarded thing to me about The Animated Series and Tommy Lee Jone's Two Face is that the split on their faces goes down IN A PERFECTLY STRAIGHT line. That's just horridly ridiculous. It looks so stupid...I mean it just..it...STUPID! STUPID! STUPID! STUPID STUPID!

    ...

    STUPID!
  • VeronicanPlayVeronicanPlay
    edited July 2010
    Hmm, what are you saying my good sir? That it looks stupid? :p
  • MusicallyInspiredMusicallyInspired
    edited July 2010
    No, that'd be too obvious lol.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited July 2010
    That would just be stupid.
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited July 2010
    I think TDK looks stupid and fake too
  • Chyron8472Chyron8472
    edited July 2010
    You mean Two-Face from The Dark Knight?

    I loved Two-Face's portrayal in that movie. My only regret is that
    he (apparently) dies.
    It was so refreshing to see him done properly after having experienced Batman Forever. In fact, I remember when he first showed his marred face in full on screen in the theater and how, for me, it immediately made the whole movie go from great to awesome.



    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    The most retarded thing to me about The Animated Series and Tommy Lee Jone's Two Face is that the split on their faces goes down IN A PERFECTLY STRAIGHT line.


    I forgive the animated series for this cuz it's a cartoon and is therefore not required to be completely accurate. Live action, however, benefits from being realistically believable especially when previous installments in a series work hard to do so. With how popular Batman was at the time, it's ridiculous for them to have made Tommy Lee Jones look like his makeup artist normally worked on high school plays.
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