There's this debate going on in my head, i personally consider both Sam and Max as Anti-Heroes, with Max slighty more "evil", almost good to be a villain himself
Well im gonna say there a little of both sometimes they act responsible in what they do like when Max poked the eyes of a bad guy who tried to assault a woman in Monkeys violating the heavenly temple, stopping the purse snatcher in that same story and stopping a store robbery in On the Road. Although not being the case all the time like when Sam threw a bomb at a bus in Hit the Road or Max shooting bystanders in on the road.
They're very close to anti-hero on how they handle their cases, but I gotta say they're mostly heroes. Jerks who are careless about collateral damage, but even Max seems more out to terrorize and annoy people and beat the crap out of those who deserve it than anything else. When it comes down to it, both care about life in general, do what they can to save others and aren't REALLY the sociopaths they're made out to be in dialogue.
The only human who's permanently died directly because of their actions was Chuckles, and we don't even know that considering the influence of their actions in the second season.
They're antiheroes. They're the good guys, because Sam wants to be and Max goes along with it, I think, and they save things, but in some ways they're the opposite of heroic. So they're antiheroes. That's the definition, as far as I can figure out.
I think they are both heroes. Just that Max likes to do it more violently.
Remember this quote:
Sam: (Something about saving the world, can't remember where.)
Max: Sometimes on purpose!
So, they are sort of heroes, just do things a different way.
It was:
Spirit of Christmas Present: It is your own selfish actions that have brought this to pass!
Sam: Selfish? We're Freelance Police!
Max: We save the world. Sometimes on purpose!
The only human who's permanently died directly because of their actions was Chuckles, and we don't even know that considering the influence of their actions in the second season.
They killed a lot of people in Heavenly Temple and their creepy neighbor Mr Ahtoo. They always have justifications for their actions (even though most of them are pretty out there or vague but all tie into law and order), especially when they think they are in the wrong (though they are usually spot-on with their first impressions of people).
They didn't do it just because they were criminals, though. They did it because they themselves were in mortal danger. Same thing with the head time bomb, if you think about it.
At least in Heavenly Temple. I only have the 1995 version of Surfin' the Highway, so I don't know nothin' 'bout no Ahtoo.
But anyways, that's like saying Indiana Jones or Han Solo are anti-heroes because they kill when they're in danger. You can't say that because they're still good guys on the whole. They can be sardonic, but that's just them wanting some gratitude for saving your bum. In fact, Indy kills much more often than Sam and Max do.
They didn't do it just because they were criminals, though. They did it because they themselves were in mortal danger. Same thing with the head time bomb, if you think about it.
At least in Heavenly Temple. I only have the 1995 version of Surfin' the Highway, so I don't know nothin' 'bout no Ahtoo.
But anyways, that's like saying Indiana Jones or Han Solo are anti-heroes because they kill when they're in danger. You can't say that because they're still good guys on the whole. They can be sardonic, but that's just them wanting some gratitude for saving your bum. In fact, Indy kills much more often than Sam and Max do.
I didn't say killing people made them anti-heroes. I was just replying to your comment that they only killed one person.
I wanted to mention (before the internet ate my first and second attempts to reply to this thread) that Sam and Max don't kill people just for the fun of it. Sure, they love their chaos and mayhem but towards people who they think deserve it.
I didn't say killing people made them anti-heroes. I was just replying to your comment that they only killed one person.
I wanted to mention (before the internet ate my first and second attempts to reply to this thread) that Sam and Max don't kill people just for the fun of it. Sure, they love their chaos and mayhem but towards people who they think deserve it.
I really just wanted to say that Sam and Max aren't as sociopathic as people think they are. Which you agree with! So good!
But you're right -- they killed quite a few people, upon retrospect. In the comics, at least.
Sure, they have saved the world a few times, repaired history, rescued helpless manatees, run over an evil spirit, stopped alien invasions, ect...which does make them seem heroic until you look at stuff like:
shooting a clown and at people filming a TV series, tattooing wrestling masks on some bullies, playing a banjo and bagpipe, shoplifting...and that's only in the comics!
Originally posted by Shwoo
Spirit of Christmas Present: It is your own selfish actions that have brought this to pass!
Sam: Selfish? We're Freelance Police!
Max: We save the world. Sometimes on purpose!
Antiheros, bordering on downright villainous. & I'm looking at all the games, the comics, & the cartoon here. They're on par with Deadpool & meybe even leaning a little towards the Batman TAS Joker. They use the law like bad cops. They steal, threaten people with force & guns, break shit, kidnap, tresspass, drive recklessly, destroy property, & it's kind of illegal to be a vigilante. & Dr. Furball also pointed out their own special devil-given detication.
Well what drives me crazy is that in the comics their behavior is far more "violent" just like Sam & Max: Hit and Run, which was way more adult oriented, well i guess Telltale games isn't following they way Steve Purcell really wanted them to be :P
Antiheros, bordering on downright villainous. & I'm looking at all the games, the comics, & the cartoon here. They're on par with Deadpool & meybe even leaning a little towards the Batman TAS Joker. They use the law like bad cops. They steal, threaten people with force & guns, break shit, kidnap, tresspass, drive recklessly, destroy property, & it's kind of illegal to be a vigilante. & Dr. Furball also pointed out their own special devil-given detication.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Sure the charges of illegal activities are true. But comparing them to Deadpool and/or the Joker? No way.
Sam, at least, has a moral compass (though warped towards over-zealousness law keeping). He always likes to play hero which puts both him and Max in situations best left alone (but luckily for them, they have an endless supply of good luck). If illegal activities are needed to help/save others/the world or, more importantly, their own skins, then so be it.
Max, on the other hand, seems to not know any better. From the comics and cartoon, he seems to often look to Sam for guidance or as an example. As I see it, he is only as bad as Sam lets him to be.
You have to also consider, they are animals (or half, or... whatever). Self-preservation and survival rules the day. Right and wrong, good and evil are subjective. This is definitely true about Max who would shoot anything that remotely threatens him.
Sam and Max are freelance (hence their career title, freelance police). They'll pretty much going to do anything they're commissioned to, so they're pretty much both. The way they complete a task may very to being logical to very violent. I've never actually seen them as anti-heros. Sure, Max is very villainous and violent, but he isn't trying to take over the world or anything. In fact, I think he usually just says, but never actually does. I think he only actually does something violent if it means helping to win the case.
Max is evil in a good way, although he acts like a villain he really wants good to come out of the world (In the most violent matter of course). And Sam is just an all around good dog, no mystery who the good guys are, eh?
Sam and Max are freelance (hence their career title, freelance police). They'll pretty much going to do anything they're commissioned to, so they're pretty much both. The way they complete a task may very to being logical to very violent. I've never actually seen them as anti-heros. Sure, Max is very villainous and violent, but he isn't trying to take over the world or anything. In fact, I think he usually just says, but never actually does. I think he only actually does something violent if it means helping to win the case.
They're saving the world (or, at least leaning towards it) in season 3 without the commissioner telling them to. Though it can be argued that throughout the whole season, they're just following the series of events out of curiosity.
Well what drives me crazy is that in the comics their behavior is far more "violent" just like Sam & Max: Hit and Run, which was way more adult oriented, well i guess Telltale games isn't following they way Steve Purcell really wanted them to be :P
What is Sam and Max Hit and Run? An adult-oriented Sam and Max game? If you're talking about Sam & Max Hit the Road, last time I played that they couldn't even take out their guns...
Well, thing is you guys are using the incorruptible models of Superman, Captain America and the like -- classic capes -- as the idea of heroes. You've gotta look a bit away from that.
Sam & Max are on the level of Batman with how much they teeter on the border between heroic and anti-heroic. Batman, for example, has many the typical ideals and traits of a true hero, but his actions often contradict that. Sam & Max tend to the exact opposite. They are very anti-heroic in their characterization, but their actions for the good of the city, the people, the nation and sometimes even the world contradict that. Sam & Max may enjoy their work and use excessive force, but I don't think they're genuine anti-heroes.
Sam & Max also aren't really anti-heroes in that they don't often profit from their work in the way typical ones do. Frank Castle works for revenge, as does Kratos (if you can even call him an anti-hero). Even Deadpool mostly works for money, being a mercenary. The profit is mostly from doing the work in the first place, and that's it.
Sam & Max also aren't really anti-heroes in that they don't often profit from their work in the way typical ones do. Frank Castle works for revenge, as does Kratos (if you can even call him an anti-hero). Even Deadpool mostly works for money, being a mercenary. The profit is mostly from doing the work in the first place, and that's it.
That's not what defines an anti-hero. An anti-hero is a protagonist who doesn't have all the traits normally associated with a hero.
A normal hero wouldn't throw a bomb out a window because there's nothing but strangers out there, for example. Sam does care about justice, but he goes about it in a weird and callous way.
Comments
Remember this quote:
Sam: (Something about saving the world, can't remember where.)
Max: Sometimes on purpose!
So, they are sort of heroes, just do things a different way.
The only human who's permanently died directly because of their actions was Chuckles, and we don't even know that considering the influence of their actions in the second season.
There was probably nobody on that bus, anyway.
It was:
Spirit of Christmas Present: It is your own selfish actions that have brought this to pass!
Sam: Selfish? We're Freelance Police!
Max: We save the world. Sometimes on purpose!
Looks like we got ourselves an Objectivist, here. :rolleyes:
Let me Google that for you.
They killed a lot of people in Heavenly Temple and their creepy neighbor Mr Ahtoo. They always have justifications for their actions (even though most of them are pretty out there or vague but all tie into law and order), especially when they think they are in the wrong (though they are usually spot-on with their first impressions of people).
At least in Heavenly Temple. I only have the 1995 version of Surfin' the Highway, so I don't know nothin' 'bout no Ahtoo.
But anyways, that's like saying Indiana Jones or Han Solo are anti-heroes because they kill when they're in danger. You can't say that because they're still good guys on the whole. They can be sardonic, but that's just them wanting some gratitude for saving your bum. In fact, Indy kills much more often than Sam and Max do.
I agree with this.
I could barely understand it.
I didn't say killing people made them anti-heroes. I was just replying to your comment that they only killed one person.
I wanted to mention (before the internet ate my first and second attempts to reply to this thread) that Sam and Max don't kill people just for the fun of it. Sure, they love their chaos and mayhem but towards people who they think deserve it.
You and me both. It's like deciphering Scooby Doo or something... ^^;
I really just wanted to say that Sam and Max aren't as sociopathic as people think they are. Which you agree with! So good!
But you're right -- they killed quite a few people, upon retrospect. In the comics, at least.
I think I still have my James Bond Jr. Secret Decoder ring.
It's, uh, in the trash. At the dump. For years. >_>
Sure, they have saved the world a few times, repaired history, rescued helpless manatees, run over an evil spirit, stopped alien invasions, ect...which does make them seem heroic until you look at stuff like:
shooting a clown and at people filming a TV series, tattooing wrestling masks on some bullies, playing a banjo and bagpipe, shoplifting...and that's only in the comics!
Definitely anti-heroes.
Thanks. I had forgot what episode that was.
Poor ring. At least it's decoding messages in the Big Puzzle in the sky...
I disagree wholeheartedly. Sure the charges of illegal activities are true. But comparing them to Deadpool and/or the Joker? No way.
Sam, at least, has a moral compass (though warped towards over-zealousness law keeping). He always likes to play hero which puts both him and Max in situations best left alone (but luckily for them, they have an endless supply of good luck). If illegal activities are needed to help/save others/the world or, more importantly, their own skins, then so be it.
Max, on the other hand, seems to not know any better. From the comics and cartoon, he seems to often look to Sam for guidance or as an example. As I see it, he is only as bad as Sam lets him to be.
You have to also consider, they are animals (or half, or... whatever). Self-preservation and survival rules the day. Right and wrong, good and evil are subjective. This is definitely true about Max who would shoot anything that remotely threatens him.
The correct classification of the comics are YA (Young Adult).
If you did those, you are awesome. If someone else did, you are still awesome for posting them.
I say Sam and Max are Reluctant heroes. This crap just keeps happening to them so they have to do something about it.
Also Deadpool is not a villain. He is a hero at heart, A mercenary because that's all he knows how to do.
It can also mean a main character who fails to do anything heroic. In this sense, they're not anti-heroes.
They're saving the world (or, at least leaning towards it) in season 3 without the commissioner telling them to. Though it can be argued that throughout the whole season, they're just following the series of events out of curiosity.
Aw, I feel so '98 now
What is Sam and Max Hit and Run? An adult-oriented Sam and Max game? If you're talking about Sam & Max Hit the Road, last time I played that they couldn't even take out their guns...
Sam & Max are on the level of Batman with how much they teeter on the border between heroic and anti-heroic. Batman, for example, has many the typical ideals and traits of a true hero, but his actions often contradict that. Sam & Max tend to the exact opposite. They are very anti-heroic in their characterization, but their actions for the good of the city, the people, the nation and sometimes even the world contradict that. Sam & Max may enjoy their work and use excessive force, but I don't think they're genuine anti-heroes.
Sam & Max also aren't really anti-heroes in that they don't often profit from their work in the way typical ones do. Frank Castle works for revenge, as does Kratos (if you can even call him an anti-hero). Even Deadpool mostly works for money, being a mercenary. The profit is mostly from doing the work in the first place, and that's it.
A normal hero wouldn't throw a bomb out a window because there's nothing but strangers out there, for example. Sam does care about justice, but he goes about it in a weird and callous way.
he care about max