Anytime we re-package the game's data for a new release we have to QA it. That's how it works
This is especially true with episodic stuff, since on our side many things are shared between episodes (animations, textures, game scripts, engine code). So we have to make sure that an update somewhere else didn't break something in the old content. That's the main reason. QAing the "film grain switch" would be a few minutes I imagine. It's running through the game in and out in many configurations to make sure that, for instance, suddenly hints haven't stopped working, or Sam's walk animation is wrong, or whatever.
suddenly hints haven't stopped working? do you mean have instead of haven't, because otherwise this seems to be a fine thing to happen
I've heard screaming at developers on their own forum in all caps with exclamation points really works, and doesn't just make people turn you off. Wait, that's the opposite of true. Please learn to be polite, especially when in someone else's "house." Pretend you're talking to an actual human next time and you might get a better, more timely response. Sheesh.
...
Followup note: Replying with "its easy!" from your couch will get you absolutely no response.
@Jake:
I'm sorry, if it came off as rude, but sometimes in this forum I have the feeling that nothing ever gets any recognition, if it isn't said a little forcefully. Take for example the fact that the installer still doesn't import the settings (install path, resolution, graphics,...) from the previous episodes, although it's pretty much a 3 minute change for the devs. Also some episodes never got their bugs fixed (e.g. Wallace and Gromit). And I could probably go on about such issues for quite a while. I really love the games you make, but you have to work on your customer response and the long term support!
So, again, I'm sorry for the foreful way I adressed the devs, but I saw no other way and to be honest, the grain really gets on my nerves. I think Max would have approved of my style.
Is that what it is? I thought I was just going nuts. I already see a mist colorful static floaty particles everywhere I look, but I thought the game (in episode 1 anyway) looked unusually staticy.
It's not technically hard. The question is: Is there time to run new builds of all five episodes through Quqlity Assurance on Mac and PC for the grain?
I would be a bit surprised if this thing gained sufficient priority - but I'm rooting for it
Why do you guys HATE the grain so much? So much so that you started to point people and yell at their faces, or teach a game making company how to code?
It distracts me from the game. Period. I understand the intent of the designers, and obviously it works for a lot of people, but it does not for me. Not so much, though
I'm having a bit of a hard time imagining what turning off an OVERLAY could cause for issues, since I hardly doubt it's coded into the game itself other than a graphical effect overlaying the entire screen. I suppose there are pointers in the game during some cutscene's increasing or decreasing the effect (since it's definitely not the same all the time), I suppose those are more of an issue.
Then again, what do cows and busts have to do with each other that they create the 302 gamestopping bug, eh? So... yeah.
Anyway, +1 for the "I would turn it off if possible". Maybe we should have a (public) poll on the issue...
Take for example the fact that the installer still doesn't import the settings (install path, resolution, graphics,...) from the previous episodes, although it's pretty much a 3 minute change for the devs.
I'm no game developer, but it sounds like your underestimating a wee bit.
I'm no game developer, but it sounds like your underestimating a wee bit.
Trust me, I'm a developer (not games though), and making these changes to an installer is a 3 minute work (while holding a cup of coffee in the other hand). You would be surprised, how easy those installer packages (looks like NSIS in this case) are to work with.
I think the film grain effect looks nice, and I'm a bit surprised that some people seem so strongly opposed to it. On my computer the effect is quite subtle, I don't notice it unless I pay attention to it. I guess it looks differently on other computers, making it more distracting for some users.
In regards to the auto-settings; not sure why it doesn't happen anymore as well.
Searching the registry it seems it only does this for the launcher (used by all games), ToMI and S&M 2 (well, of the games I have).
The options menu did change between 301 and 302, but for 303 and 304 it was the same as 302.
I personally just dislike it when games don't have proper graphics options. It was fine before now because SaM 1+2 never had all the new fancy effects to tweak.
I like to be able to control everything (Texture Quality, Vsync, Bloom, Shadow Quality, Film grain etc. etc.) but maybe that's just me.
Not enough to make me like/dislike a game overall though, just a minor annoyance.
I think the film grain effect looks nice, and I'm a bit surprised that some people seem so strongly opposed to it. On my computer the effect is quite subtle, I don't notice it unless I pay attention to it. I guess it looks differently on other computers, making it more distracting for some users.
I wonder if the people that are most noticing it aren't playing the game at 800x600 or some other extremely low resolution - if the maximum brightness variation caused by the grain effect is the same as it is at, say, 1280x1024 the grain of course will be more noticeable, i.e. if the effect strength doesn't vary depending on resolution...
Well, I always play an episode at least twice and first is always in quality setting 3 and 1024x768 res, and the second is always in QS 4 800x600 res (I have a crappy laptop).
It's more noticable in my second run. I'm not sure if it's because of the screen compression (or a zoom-in) caused by reducing the resolution or increasing the quality setting that makes it more noticable, but increasing the resolution doesn't really make the grain effect more noticable. It's more of a "texture" rather than an image stuck on a layer, stretching its canvas depending on how big the screen is.
but increasing the resolution doesn't really make the grain effect more noticable.
Errr... increasing the resolution (and thus making the pixels smaller) should make it less noticeable - think about it: the grain is a small amount of random brightness variation added to/subtracted from each pixel.
The smaller the pixels, the less noticeable that variation will be if the distribution of randomness is even across the screen...
Errr... increasing the resolution (and thus making the pixels smaller) should make it less noticeable - think about it: the grain is a small amount of random brightness variation added to/subtracted from each pixel.
The smaller the pixels, the less noticeable that variation will be if the distribution of randomness is even across the screen...
Yeah, I'm thinking the same way, I just misread your post and that made me believe that you were thinking otherwise.
It's not technically hard. The question is: Is there time to run new builds of all five episodes through Quqlity Assurance on Mac and PC for the grain? That's ten products going through QA. Will it be able to be wrapped in with other bug fixes, or would it be a separate thing? Would we back-port it to downloadable versions? Even though the switch itself isn't complicated, would we get programmer time okayed? It's not actually that complicated, but it's not just someone sitting down for 3 minutes to plug in a checkbox.
That's a good point, but it's not much of a problem if you (like you already suggest) wrap it in with other bug fixes. I don't know if Telltale games get updated a lot, but a lot of people (not me) have encountered bugs that are sometimes game-breaking. If these issues are going to be fixed (and I think they should be; digital distribution means easier bug fixes) adding new features like a checkbox for the film grain makes sense.
I like the grain, to a limited extent. It should be reservated for setting the mood as the episode opens and closes, not all the time. Effects should be used where they matter, not all the time.
I know that tv shows has done similar things (like grayscale episodes and what not), but the point is that they usually have shorter timespans and doesn't do it all the time. And just because someone does something bad doesn't mean that everyone else can do it.
I like the grain, to a limited extent. It should be reservated for setting the mood as the episode opens and closes, not all the time. Effects should be used where they matter, not all the time.
I know that tv shows has done similar things (like grayscale episodes and what not), but the point is that they usually have shorter timespans and doesn't do it all the time. And just because someone does something bad doesn't mean that everyone else can do it.
Why just to the cinematics? Should we also remove things like shadows, textures, depth of field, and complex models from the "game" part as well? Those are as much "effects" as film grain, if not moreso. Who's to say that the visual texture of an entire Season "doesn't matter"?
Telltale is pretty committed to making cinematic-looking games that make use of the language of film. Hence the camera angles and so forth. Film grain was the next logical step in this trend. I really like the direction they've been taking. They're pretty close to actually achieving the proverbial "interactive movie" that everyone in the game industry has been going on about for 20 years.
At the risk of sounding like a jerk... A common remedy for bad eyesight is glasses. I have bad eyesight, wear glasses and have no problem with the grain in S&M.
And I believe it didn't get worse with the new episode, it's just that BtAotD is darker than the others so the film grain is more visible. It's just my opinion though so I might be wrong.
Still, I don't hate the film grain. I think I actually like it
I like film grain and its effects, but I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. I am also visually impaired (legally blind to be exact) and it does get hard to see at times.
I wear glasses, but they are still not fully corrective. People all the time tell me to get stronger glasses or get laser surgery, but I am an albino and what works for some simply cannot work for me. I can't drive, or even read menus posted up in fast food restaurants, or read a newspaper. There is, quite literally NOTHING that can be done to ever improve my eyesight, except maybe stem cell research. Period.
Telltale already does an awesome job of catering to the hearing impaired crowd with the inclusion of subtitles, would it be possible to make the effects of the film grain less strong for the visually impaired?
I've read through the whole thread, so I understand if it isn't possible, and I do like the grain when its not oppressive. Just putting my two cents out there.
Why just to the cinematics? Should we also remove things like shadows, textures, depth of field, and complex models from the "game" part as well? Those are as much "effects" as film grain, if not moreso. Who's to say that the visual texture of an entire Season "doesn't matter"?
I wouldn't mind putting off "3D" in cinema's. I pay extra, and I don't really see much of a profit at all (actually, most of the time it decreases my capacity to be caught in the movie, seeing 3 screens instead of 1 in 3D. I have a hard time "seeing it", so in that respect I can understand the people here with the grain).
Sadly, I seem to be one of the few...
That's what they want you to think, but there's a pretty good chunk of people who find that it's totally overblown. Still, there is a pretty good chunk of the public more than happy to shell out the extra money because "3D IS AWESOME!!!!11!!!!1!!".
I only notices the film grain in 2 games & only for a short while. Then after episode 4, I played Teller Of Tale's "The Path" & it had film grain too, so I just gave up. lol.
I'd like for someone to make the film grain optional in this game please. I bought Sam & Max Season 3 on Steam, and the graininess driving me nuts. Especially on the dark scenes. My boyfriend bought me a nice big monitor and a nice graphics card to play my games on, and I find that all the speckling is really noticeable and distracting (unless I'm sitting about three feet back from the screen).
I'm glad that some people like it, and I think it should be there for them if they want it, but an option to turn it off would be great. Thank you!
I've seen that the film grain's effect actually varies from computer to computer and/or monitor to monitor. I had no problems with it, but now I understand people who are irritated by it.
Maybe a setting to "lower the film grain's effect" rather than completely getting rid of it would please everyone, but it's too late for such a thing now.
Maybe a setting to "lower the film grain's effect" rather than completely getting rid of it would please everyone, but it's too late for such a thing now.
Aw, I don't think so. Telltale could fix it if they want to. Maybe someone else knows how to fix it with a mod?
The Film Grain actually tones down in the next episodes, I barely noticed it at all during They Stole Max's Brain, it was back but used less for Beyond the Alleys of the Dolls but again I don't remember it on The City That Dares Not Sleep.
I like the film grain, but I also think that the OP is justified in wanting an off-button and the other film grain fans saying 'lol get glasses' are being big fat poopieheads about it, in the nicest possible language. He has poor eyesight. It is no longer a taste issue (which you can be justified in being jerks about) - it's an accessibility issue. OP isn't complaining because it bothers him aesthetically, he is reasonably complaining because it makes the game physically difficult for him to play.
I won't be turning off the grain if it's in future releases because I think it looks gorgeous, but I definitely think there should have been an Off option in the menu, for accessibility reasons alone. Yeah, the game is a work of art in whatever form and should be viewed as the developer intended, but surely it would be better if visually impaired players could enjoy the game at all, rather than not being able to play thanks to grain that can't be switched off?
(Wootman, sorry if you aren't male - I'm assuming you are because you have 'man' in your name, but if I'm wrong, I'm sorry and I take full responsibility.)
Some companies, like Valve, continually update their products, sometimes years after release.
Yeah, but they're also big enough to support their huge update traffic by a revolutionary gaming system they came up with, namely Steam.
Telltale's only system that they could go for is updating the setup on a FTP server and letting people downloading their games off of it. When they upload a new game they have to take the entire site into maintentance.
Comments
suddenly hints haven't stopped working? do you mean have instead of haven't, because otherwise this seems to be a fine thing to happen
@Jake:
I'm sorry, if it came off as rude, but sometimes in this forum I have the feeling that nothing ever gets any recognition, if it isn't said a little forcefully. Take for example the fact that the installer still doesn't import the settings (install path, resolution, graphics,...) from the previous episodes, although it's pretty much a 3 minute change for the devs. Also some episodes never got their bugs fixed (e.g. Wallace and Gromit). And I could probably go on about such issues for quite a while. I really love the games you make, but you have to work on your customer response and the long term support!
So, again, I'm sorry for the foreful way I adressed the devs, but I saw no other way and to be honest, the grain really gets on my nerves. I think Max would have approved of my style.
I would be a bit surprised if this thing gained sufficient priority - but I'm rooting for it
It distracts me from the game. Period. I understand the intent of the designers, and obviously it works for a lot of people, but it does not for me. Not so much, though
Then again, what do cows and busts have to do with each other that they create the 302 gamestopping bug, eh? So... yeah.
Anyway, +1 for the "I would turn it off if possible". Maybe we should have a (public) poll on the issue...
I'm no game developer, but it sounds like your underestimating a wee bit.
I would only support this if Telltale was conducting said poll.
Trust me, I'm a developer (not games though), and making these changes to an installer is a 3 minute work (while holding a cup of coffee in the other hand). You would be surprised, how easy those installer packages (looks like NSIS in this case) are to work with.
Good idea. Telltale should step up the grain. I notice it in the first cutscene, but after that I'm used to it.
Searching the registry it seems it only does this for the launcher (used by all games), ToMI and S&M 2 (well, of the games I have).
The options menu did change between 301 and 302, but for 303 and 304 it was the same as 302.
I like to be able to control everything (Texture Quality, Vsync, Bloom, Shadow Quality, Film grain etc. etc.) but maybe that's just me.
Not enough to make me like/dislike a game overall though, just a minor annoyance.
It's more noticable in my second run. I'm not sure if it's because of the screen compression (or a zoom-in) caused by reducing the resolution or increasing the quality setting that makes it more noticable, but increasing the resolution doesn't really make the grain effect more noticable. It's more of a "texture" rather than an image stuck on a layer, stretching its canvas depending on how big the screen is.
The smaller the pixels, the less noticeable that variation will be if the distribution of randomness is even across the screen...
Yeah, I'm thinking the same way, I just misread your post and that made me believe that you were thinking otherwise.
As it is now it reads that 800x600 makes it less noticable than 1280x900.
No, it's not an opinion, you're just being stupid.
Of course, I suppose that's why it was used in TDP in the first place.
I know that tv shows has done similar things (like grayscale episodes and what not), but the point is that they usually have shorter timespans and doesn't do it all the time. And just because someone does something bad doesn't mean that everyone else can do it.
They don't.
I like film grain and its effects, but I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. I am also visually impaired (legally blind to be exact) and it does get hard to see at times.
I wear glasses, but they are still not fully corrective. People all the time tell me to get stronger glasses or get laser surgery, but I am an albino and what works for some simply cannot work for me. I can't drive, or even read menus posted up in fast food restaurants, or read a newspaper. There is, quite literally NOTHING that can be done to ever improve my eyesight, except maybe stem cell research. Period.
Telltale already does an awesome job of catering to the hearing impaired crowd with the inclusion of subtitles, would it be possible to make the effects of the film grain less strong for the visually impaired?
I've read through the whole thread, so I understand if it isn't possible, and I do like the grain when its not oppressive. Just putting my two cents out there.
Sadly, I seem to be one of the few...
That's what they want you to think, but there's a pretty good chunk of people who find that it's totally overblown. Still, there is a pretty good chunk of the public more than happy to shell out the extra money because "3D IS AWESOME!!!!11!!!!1!!".
I don't have any viewing problems with 3D, but I also think it's mostly a waste of money in its current form.
I'm glad that some people like it, and I think it should be there for them if they want it, but an option to turn it off would be great. Thank you!
Maybe a setting to "lower the film grain's effect" rather than completely getting rid of it would please everyone, but it's too late for such a thing now.
Aw, I don't think so. Telltale could fix it if they want to. Maybe someone else knows how to fix it with a mod?
Well, now that they are shipping the DVD version of it there is no turning back. They rarely update their stuff anyway.
Noone has worked on such a thing, but it's a splendid idea. This may require the extraction and recompression of game data though.
I won't be turning off the grain if it's in future releases because I think it looks gorgeous, but I definitely think there should have been an Off option in the menu, for accessibility reasons alone. Yeah, the game is a work of art in whatever form and should be viewed as the developer intended, but surely it would be better if visually impaired players could enjoy the game at all, rather than not being able to play thanks to grain that can't be switched off?
(Wootman, sorry if you aren't male - I'm assuming you are because you have 'man' in your name, but if I'm wrong, I'm sorry and I take full responsibility.)
Does anyone know if it's possible to make such a mod, or if modding is something that Telltale allows or forbids?
Yeah, but they're also big enough to support their huge update traffic by a revolutionary gaming system they came up with, namely Steam.
Telltale's only system that they could go for is updating the setup on a FTP server and letting people downloading their games off of it. When they upload a new game they have to take the entire site into maintentance.