It isn't just not clarified--a number of things very literally don't make sense. Like why she agrees to be LeChuck's bride--whether she's truly evil at that point--and for that matter, whether the Voodoo Lady is evil or not, or really does, in fact, have some master plan. In episodes 4 and 5, the game introduces all of these questions that it just fails to ever answer, and ends up confusing the hell out of the player in the process. The defenders here seem to be defending it just for the sake of defending it. The fact that the game tried to create some kind of overarching series "meta-plot" and the flaws in bringing that story to a proper conclusion smack of bad fan fiction. Which is very surprising and ultimately disappointing coming from an officially licensed game.
The game explains clearly why she agrees to be LeChuck's bride, it was the only way for her to get her hand on the Cutlass, as mortals could not hold it any more. And she said she knew Guybrush would find a way to turn her back. She put all her trust on Guybrush's shoulders, and he came through for her.
The game explains clearly why she agrees to be LeChuck's bride, it was the only way for her to get her hand on the Cutlass, as mortals could not hold it any more.
...[or] whether the Voodoo Lady is evil or not, or really does, in fact, have some master plan.
Watch the cutscene after the Chapter 5 end credits, and you have part of your answer. Besides, the ambiguity of the Voodoo Lady's actions make for good storytelling.
In episodes 4 and 5, the game introduces all of these questions that it just fails to ever answer, and ends up confusing the hell out of the player in the process.
Don't mistaken "confusing" with "thought-provoking."
The defenders here seem to be defending it just for the sake of defending it.
Or maybe you just don't like being disagreed with. I enjoyed the game very much.
The fact that the game tried to create some kind of overarching series "meta-plot" and the flaws in bringing that story to a proper conclusion smack of bad fan fiction.
I don't read bad fan fiction, thanks.
The revelation/accusation of the Voodoo Lady to be evil or malevolent is a welcome change to the series. Especially since good adventure games are story driven, at some point the games in the series ought to become about more than just the routine of kill-the-bad-guy-and-save-the-princess. Also, since MI is into 5th installment.
EMI got it all wrong. Relegating LeChuck to nothing more than Ozzie's second-banana is an insult to his character. Instead, ToMI creates mystery and suspense by creating a shroud of uncertainty and suspicion around the Voodoo Lady. Ending the story while still having unanswered questions about her motives and the true extent of her involvement leaves us wanting more... and as Walt Disney himself once said "always leave them wanting more."
Which is very surprising and ultimately disappointing coming from an officially licensed game.
as opposed to... the ending of MI2, which hinges on a tired Star Wars joke and a ridiculous carnival; or the end of EMI, in which only LeChuck's statue is defeated and no one cares what happened to LeChuck himself?
Especially compared to those two endings, I thought ToMI was excellent (though still fantastic on its own merit.)
The Voodoo Lady being given a stronger role in the game by casting suspicion on her gives greater depth to the story. I don't see why all the loose ends need to be tied up nice and neatly so long as the story is compelling. Telltale did a great job. Just because the game doesn't answer all your questions, that doesn't mean the story sucks.
I'm slightly building on what Chyron has said already, but I think the real problem is a bit of fanboyism. Some oldschool fans have their own ideas of what makes the series what it is.
Not that there's anything bad with liking a series all along, but some fandoms tend to get a bit...well...stuck up. I've seen plenty of fandoms go nutso when whoever's in charge of it decides to go into deeper development of plot and/or characters. And I speak as a Star Wars fan.
Overall, I think people are hung up over a combination of:
1. The now evil Voodoo Lady:
We never really knew her motives from the beginning. Not to mention we have seen hints that she has been helping Le Chuck in other games. This isn't Princess and the Frog folks.
Besides, as I've said before, we now have motivations for Le Chuck other than the whole Bowser Peach dynamic. Nothing against Mario, but there's only need for one Mario in this world. Reintroducing the Voodoo Lady as an outright villian and giving her a new minion opens up possibilities for more stories, not to mention more complex plots. (And personally, I thought Tales of Monkey Island was pretty clear in its plot...)
2. CMI and EMI even existing:
Yeah, Le Chuck's Revenge had an oddball ending, and it is true that Ron Gilbert wasn't involved much (if at all) with the next two games. However, this is a Lucas properly, like it or not. And if I know anything from the world of Star Wars, sometimes you just gotta accept that canon is canon whether you like it or not. Lucas-anything is notoriously loose with who they let participate, and that's their business. (Literally.)
I think Curse of Monkey Island, in particular, contributed a heck of a lot to the series as a whole. Everything from Guybrush's voice to the artstyle many associate Monkey Island with as a whole is a contribution of Curse. Don't like the explanation of the carnival? Well, too bad. Elaine and Le Chuck sure gave one heck of a loophole for the devs to escape from. The whole "brother" thing was for laughs and no other reason.
If we must accept Boba Fett being alive, Chewbacca being dead, Jar-Jar Binks existing, and Luke Skywalker being married to a tomboy redhead (Say...does this last part sound familiar somehow?), we must also accept that the "Big Whoop" carnival was some crazy plot by Le Chuck.
3. Monkey Island gets serious:
Tales took the series in a very different direction from previous games. The previous games, being mostly just acts of random silly comedy, were brought together for an epic tale. And for some, it's not the tale itself that's wrong, it's the continuity they stuck it in!
Hence the "fanfic" accusations.
However, this sure as heck isn't the first time a pure comedy has been worked into epic stories that deal with deeper emotions and more serious subject-matter. And what's more, this isn't the first time it's worked, and worked really well. Disagree? My friend Ranma Saotome here has a bucket of water to drop on you from the top of Mt. Phoenix, thank you. Initially a comic series of pure silliness, the epic plotlines from the later stories took us, the readers, for some crazy rides that never forgot to be the silly we initially loved them for. And that's what made them all the more loveable.
So to see the Monkey Island series deal with the subject of death, and in a rather Tim Burtonish way (and never once forgetting to keep it fun and laugh at itself) must have been quite a shock for quite a few fans! But me? I was applauding the whole way through. And Guybrush's "death" even managed to get a few tears out of me.
Then again, maybe that change actually came awhile ago. Monkey Island 3 had Guybrush shocked out of his "jerk" phase, and dealing with a situation that was in every way his own fault. On top of that, we already knew then he was willing to go all the way for Elaine. Ya know what they say: The more things change...
Disclaimers: Kathryn actually liked Jar-Jar Binks. Lynchings begin at noon. Do not attempt to open beer bottles with lightsabers. Always dial *228 before CDMA roaming.
Pretty much. The ending of Tales was simply excellent through and through, a few minor holes and untied loose ends aside. We got a climactic battle in the form of an excellent puzzle.
We also got our mini-sad ending, the glimmer of hope, and the final realization that "YES! We can get out!", all in the form of a puzzle. The cutscene after these puzzles that made up all the narrative necessities of an ending was just to perform the final send-off, to show us that yes they reunited and yes they're off on their next adventure, and we got our foreshadowing after the credits. Really extremely well-done ending on all counts, especially where narrative needs are met within the structure of a puzzle, which is what is really necessary when using games as a narrative form: YOU NEED TO USE THE ACTUAL GAME AS THE MAJORITY OF THE NARRATIVE. Tales pulled this off so superbly, it seems, that it flew right over some peoples' heads.
I didn't have a problem with the end of Tales, it's not the first MI game to end on a mysterious note after all, and I do think that its ending is less WTF-inspiring than the ending for LCR. And as already pointed out in this thread, it's not like Monkey Island games have ever had massive end cutscenes.
I'm also not convinced that the Voodoo Lady is now a villain, she might not be good or nice, but that doesn't mean she's in cahoots with LeChuck. I do believe that she's certainly got her own agenda and that she's been happily manipulating Guybrush all along in order to advance it, but it could be to maintain some kind of cosmic status quo that nobody else is aware of. Then again, maybe she is evil and her actions are all part of a lengthy plan to awaken Cthulhu, because TTG themselves have a secret agenda to include at least one Elder God in all of their games. Who knows.
I really do want TTG to make more Tales, because at this point I'm far more interested in seeing where they take the story next and how/if they wrap up the loose ends than I would be if it went back to Lucasarts for them to tinker with.
Kids today require 10minute cutscenes to give them time to get snacks in between fits of "Shoot all enemies".
So true. So so so so true. You just made my day.
In my opinion, the ending was good enough. It showed that Guybrush wouldn't even consider giving up Elaine for Morgan (in a way) and the after credits video has me excited for a second season.
This has nothing to do with fanboyism. That is dead wrong. I LOVED Tales--every moment of it--right up to the ending--and then suddenly the credits were rolling, and I realized I had no idea what the heck had just happened or why. After playing through it a second time and a third, it still wasn't much clearer. There is a fine line between leaving an ending open for a sequel, and just not explaining enough, and Tales, tragically, crosses that line quite badly.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game--I think it is 100% in keeping with the tone and style and humor of the original series--they just didn't wrap the story up well.
Episode 5 is amazing--the emotion, the humor, the climactic ship sequence, destroying LeChuck--all of it. The ending just leaves too many questions unanswered. And you know they can't answer ALL of them in a sequel (IF a sequel ever happens,) so it just really sucks.
I don't dislike the ending because I hate Tales--I dislike the ending because I LOVED Tales so so much--I WANTED to understand every bit of what happened, but I just ended up feeling--confused--let down--disappointed--and more confused.
Games in which a sequel isn't absolutely a given should NOT leave their endings open. It's a cocktease to every player who invested so much time and enjoyment into playing the game. And it is a damn tragedy when those sequels don't end up happening (which so far, sadly, seems to be the case with a Tales 2.)
Games in which a sequel isn't absolutely a given should NOT leave their endings open. It's a cocktease to every player who invested so much time and enjoyment into playing the game. And it is a damn tragedy when those sequels don't end up happening (which so far, sadly, seems to be the case with a Tales 2.)
It's only been 8 months since Tales ended, so I'm not surprised there's no news of MI6 yet. I'm not expecting it before late 2011 at the earliest. And open endings are a great way to get sequels, as the stupid manager-types handling licences and stuff like that who decide these sorts of things know that fans of the thing will have their heads if they don't make a sequel to explain it. Star Trek Enterprise pulled off the same trick to get an extra season before it's cancellation, for example.
Hey, you thought the ending was over to quick? Don't play Ghost Pirates of Vooju Island then, you literally get like a 30 second then the credits leaving all the other stuff sort of unexplained!
Comments
Watch the cutscene after the Chapter 5 end credits, and you have part of your answer. Besides, the ambiguity of the Voodoo Lady's actions make for good storytelling. Don't mistaken "confusing" with "thought-provoking." Or maybe you just don't like being disagreed with. I enjoyed the game very much. I don't read bad fan fiction, thanks.
The revelation/accusation of the Voodoo Lady to be evil or malevolent is a welcome change to the series. Especially since good adventure games are story driven, at some point the games in the series ought to become about more than just the routine of kill-the-bad-guy-and-save-the-princess. Also, since MI is into 5th installment.
EMI got it all wrong. Relegating LeChuck to nothing more than Ozzie's second-banana is an insult to his character. Instead, ToMI creates mystery and suspense by creating a shroud of uncertainty and suspicion around the Voodoo Lady. Ending the story while still having unanswered questions about her motives and the true extent of her involvement leaves us wanting more... and as Walt Disney himself once said "always leave them wanting more." as opposed to... the ending of MI2, which hinges on a tired Star Wars joke and a ridiculous carnival; or the end of EMI, in which only LeChuck's statue is defeated and no one cares what happened to LeChuck himself?
Especially compared to those two endings, I thought ToMI was excellent (though still fantastic on its own merit.)
The Voodoo Lady being given a stronger role in the game by casting suspicion on her gives greater depth to the story. I don't see why all the loose ends need to be tied up nice and neatly so long as the story is compelling. Telltale did a great job. Just because the game doesn't answer all your questions, that doesn't mean the story sucks.
Not that there's anything bad with liking a series all along, but some fandoms tend to get a bit...well...stuck up. I've seen plenty of fandoms go nutso when whoever's in charge of it decides to go into deeper development of plot and/or characters. And I speak as a Star Wars fan.
Overall, I think people are hung up over a combination of:
1. The now evil Voodoo Lady:
We never really knew her motives from the beginning. Not to mention we have seen hints that she has been helping Le Chuck in other games. This isn't Princess and the Frog folks.
Besides, as I've said before, we now have motivations for Le Chuck other than the whole Bowser
2. CMI and EMI even existing:
Yeah, Le Chuck's Revenge had an oddball ending, and it is true that Ron Gilbert wasn't involved much (if at all) with the next two games. However, this is a Lucas properly, like it or not. And if I know anything from the world of Star Wars, sometimes you just gotta accept that canon is canon whether you like it or not. Lucas-anything is notoriously loose with who they let participate, and that's their business. (Literally.)
I think Curse of Monkey Island, in particular, contributed a heck of a lot to the series as a whole. Everything from Guybrush's voice to the artstyle many associate Monkey Island with as a whole is a contribution of Curse. Don't like the explanation of the carnival? Well, too bad. Elaine and Le Chuck sure gave one heck of a loophole for the devs to escape from. The whole "brother" thing was for laughs and no other reason.
If we must accept Boba Fett being alive, Chewbacca being dead, Jar-Jar Binks existing, and Luke Skywalker being married to a tomboy redhead (Say...does this last part sound familiar somehow?), we must also accept that the "Big Whoop" carnival was some crazy plot by Le Chuck.
3. Monkey Island gets serious:
Tales took the series in a very different direction from previous games. The previous games, being mostly just acts of random silly comedy, were brought together for an epic tale. And for some, it's not the tale itself that's wrong, it's the continuity they stuck it in!
Hence the "fanfic" accusations.
However, this sure as heck isn't the first time a pure comedy has been worked into epic stories that deal with deeper emotions and more serious subject-matter. And what's more, this isn't the first time it's worked, and worked really well. Disagree? My friend Ranma Saotome here has a bucket of water to drop on you from the top of Mt. Phoenix, thank you. Initially a comic series of pure silliness, the epic plotlines from the later stories took us, the readers, for some crazy rides that never forgot to be the silly we initially loved them for. And that's what made them all the more loveable.
So to see the Monkey Island series deal with the subject of death, and in a rather Tim Burtonish way (and never once forgetting to keep it fun and laugh at itself) must have been quite a shock for quite a few fans! But me? I was applauding the whole way through. And Guybrush's "death" even managed to get a few tears out of me.
Then again, maybe that change actually came awhile ago. Monkey Island 3 had Guybrush shocked out of his "jerk" phase, and dealing with a situation that was in every way his own fault. On top of that, we already knew then he was willing to go all the way for Elaine. Ya know what they say: The more things change...
Disclaimers: Kathryn actually liked Jar-Jar Binks. Lynchings begin at noon. Do not attempt to open beer bottles with lightsabers. Always dial *228 before CDMA roaming.
Basically, I agree.
I'm also not convinced that the Voodoo Lady is now a villain, she might not be good or nice, but that doesn't mean she's in cahoots with LeChuck. I do believe that she's certainly got her own agenda and that she's been happily manipulating Guybrush all along in order to advance it, but it could be to maintain some kind of cosmic status quo that nobody else is aware of. Then again, maybe she is evil and her actions are all part of a lengthy plan to awaken Cthulhu, because TTG themselves have a secret agenda to include at least one Elder God in all of their games. Who knows.
I really do want TTG to make more Tales, because at this point I'm far more interested in seeing where they take the story next and how/if they wrap up the loose ends than I would be if it went back to Lucasarts for them to tinker with.
So true. So so so so true.
In my opinion, the ending was good enough. It showed that Guybrush wouldn't even consider giving up Elaine for Morgan (in a way) and the after credits video has me excited for a second season.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game--I think it is 100% in keeping with the tone and style and humor of the original series--they just didn't wrap the story up well.
Episode 5 is amazing--the emotion, the humor, the climactic ship sequence, destroying LeChuck--all of it. The ending just leaves too many questions unanswered. And you know they can't answer ALL of them in a sequel (IF a sequel ever happens,) so it just really sucks.
I don't dislike the ending because I hate Tales--I dislike the ending because I LOVED Tales so so much--I WANTED to understand every bit of what happened, but I just ended up feeling--confused--let down--disappointed--and more confused.
Games in which a sequel isn't absolutely a given should NOT leave their endings open. It's a cocktease to every player who invested so much time and enjoyment into playing the game. And it is a damn tragedy when those sequels don't end up happening (which so far, sadly, seems to be the case with a Tales 2.)
It's only been 8 months since Tales ended, so I'm not surprised there's no news of MI6 yet. I'm not expecting it before late 2011 at the earliest. And open endings are a great way to get sequels, as the stupid manager-types handling licences and stuff like that who decide these sorts of things know that fans of the thing will have their heads if they don't make a sequel to explain it. Star Trek Enterprise pulled off the same trick to get an extra season before it's cancellation, for example.