I think this introduction strategy doesn't work anymore because a) many people who care about adventures are already introduced and b) whilst an introduction can makes sense, taking 1/5 of a game is way too much. It might be okay adding such an intro to the first episode but not turning a whole episode into it. But then i also don't know which audience they're trying to target, i just know that i'm no longer a part of it.
Maybe this is more a monthly magazine for aliens living amongst us where the real information is hidden in the game and they've choosen to do it this way because it fits better to their new layout and pleases some investor from Venus.
Btw am i the only one who feels that the game/release was rushed?
@jp-30
Maybe you're right and games like Bone 2, Sam&Max 204, The Last Resort, ... were more slip-ups instead of the climax of TTG's work and BTTF is what they really want to do. Oh well...
@jp-30
Maybe you're right and games like Bone 2, Sam&Max 204, The Last Resort, ... were more slip-ups instead of the climax of TTG's work and BTTF is what they really want to do. Oh well...
maybe they should just be climaxing all the time
even thought that sounds kinda wrong but i mean it in the context you used it
I agree that this was a little more on-rails than some older adventure games. On the other hand, many modern gamers don't seem to care for the 'try the puzzle over and over' aspect that some old games had. (And which is still present here a bit, witness the soup kitchen puzzle that seems to stymy some folks.)
Heck, I'll point out that for most games we remember fondly as the shining pinnacle of adventure gaming, there was criticism at the time of release. Grim Fandango -- arguably one of the greatest adventure games of all time -- was criticized for the puzzles being too hard/the learning curve being too steep. In fact, GF was seen by some as a sign that classic adventure gaming was dead.
No matter what TTG did for this game, some folks weren't going to be happy. BTTF fans were going to nitpick every little detail; witness the thread about whether the explanation of the DeLorean's existence is reasonable or not. Some would say the game was too easy; I admit, I found it a bit more on-rails than I would've liked. Others seem to think that some of the puzzles are too /hard/. Some think both are true; the game being on-rails between difficult puzzles.
As for me, I'm content with what I got for my money. Is episode one perfect? Nah. But despite the rough edges and flaws, I still really enjoyed it. It's been too long since I've had /any/ good adventure game to play, and a chance to continue a much-loved SF series from my childhood? Honestly, it was all gravy. And so I'm still looking forward to the second episode.
(Also, while we're discussing old adventure games and fond childhood memories, anyone else miss Zak McKracken? Talk about a franchise with a ludicrous science-fiction premise that could use a reboot or sequel... hey, you guys listening, TellTale?)
Coming back from the future, i snapped up this in a cafeteria:
:
Lisa: Have ever looked at Mike?
Anna: Mike? You mean Mike Stümmel?
Lisa: Yes! He's kind of cute.
Anna: Wow, Lisa! Mike?
Lisa: Yes, i like his full and soft curly hair and the way he sometimes smiles. He seems to be smart as well.
Anna: Oh, ahm, you know what? I've heard rumour about Mike.
Lisa: Really? Which one!
Anna: I forgot my chemistry books last week, so i went back to the labor were Bert and Tim were still cleaning up. Whilst doing so they were talking about video games and the downfall of adventures.
Lisa: Adventures? Which ones?
Anna: I'll explain it later to you. In any case i was searching for my book and at some point Bert said that he doesn't think there exists a lot of adventure gamers anymore. Whereupon Tim said that this isn't fully true and that he personally knows someone who still does. Now guess what!
Lisa: Come one!
Anna: Tim said that Mike, Mike Stümmel, plays adventures!
Lisa: You're kidding me!
Anna: No, it's really true! At first i thought i misheard myself but then Tim repeated it and named a few games Mike mentioned to him. Bert roared with laughter.
Lisa: This, this is sad news. Quite disappointing, i'm almost shocked, how boring.
Anna: I'm sorry but i think you should know about it.
Lisa: Thanks but…
Anna: Have you ever looked at John, he often wears those green jeans and checked shirts but i know he at least is a smart guy.
Lisa: Hmm, how do you know?
Anna: From time to time i saw him playing one of those rather complex shooters in the common room.
Lisa: Really? Wow! Could we have another drink, please?!
:
You haven't been following the industry, have you? There have been a great many adventure games in the past few years.
Such as:
The Runaway series (although short and relatively easy, most puzzles are still *puzzles* in that one)
Captain Brawe
Machinarium
Edna breaks out
etc.
And that's only some of the most recent. So yeah, it is still possible to make good adventure games, TTG just refuse to do it or they lost their mojo because their first couple of seasons/episodes WERE good adventure games.
I feel like the main crux of the argument in this thread is that the game isn't 1. hard enough 2. adventurous enough, and 3. modern enough.
The puzzles were easy, but a few were challenging in ways and I never got the impression they were broken. I think Telltale probably expected a lot of older folks to try this out given that it's BTTF and overcompensated with how introductory it was. You also have to take into account the possibly that Universal had heavy oversight over this (We don't really know the details of the contract, which could potentially tie Telltales hands at difficulty levels).
There is also a flawed idea of what adventure games are in this thread, or how they are defined. As much as our young friend Kanoba would like to alter the name or argue about what is and isn't an adventure game, it's not really his role to do so. Many who play adventure games enjoy slight differences in outcomes based on how they play as the most extreme consequence, not coming to a sudden & unmovable stop in the entire game (equivalent to dying).
I'm using the term 'modern enough' liberally, in that it's not more free-roaming such as GTA and doesn't allow for things like driving the Delorean around Hill Valley or jumping on a hoverboard. While we would all enjoy doing those things, that's not how an adventure game operates. Plus, that's extremely outside the realm of possibility involving a time travel game with current technology.
Here's how a more 'adventurous' BTTF gamers experience would play out and the ensuing gripes from those clamoring for such a game:
"Weee! I'm crashing into things with the Delorean and destroying history! Take that Mr. Strickland and Biff! Pew Pew!"
Followed by...
"WTF!? I returned to the future and that ONE person I killed GTA style has forced the whole game to shut down! WAHHH! THIS GAME IS STUPID!"
OR
"I KILLED ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN THE PAST AND NOTHING CHANGED MY GAME!? THAT'S SO WEAKK!!!! So much for messing up the space time continuum!"
So yeah, we get it. It's not modern enough and it's not 'hard' enough. I'm not sure what you want other than to complain how you feel cheated. Whether it's in regards to the term 'adventure game' being so sneaky or that there are no consequences for decisions.
I know nothing of the adventure gaming genre but shall act as an authoritive figure on the subject all the same. Afterall, I do have access to a dictionary.
Regards,
Mr. Pleb
=============
MY RESPONSE:
Maybe some people should be posting on a Halo forum, at least until they do a bit of research into the genre and get a clue. It occurs to me that if Telltale is to continue to branch out into mainstream IPs; then we had better be prepared for an onslaught of forum posts from opinionated, ignorant know-nothings (in regards to the genre).
You realize how bad the difficulty is in BTTF episode 1 when you know those "runaway puzzles" are a hundred times harder ...
Bare in mind that Telltale are targeting a casual audience. The puzzles aren't going to be really difficult.
Oh and I never knew about the runaway series, so maybe I should check it out.
Remember Grossman's "mother in law" article a while back?
You can see they really took that to the next level with the very slow way they ease you in to the basics of adventure gaming, the heavy handed hint system with it's own button, and they big huge icons on the screen. Funnily enough those icons actually got me stuck on one of the last puzzles because they masked the antenna on the paddy wagon.
I know nothing of the adventure gaming genre but shall act as an authoritive figure on the subject all the same. Afterall, I do have access to a dictionary.
Regards,
Mr. Pleb
Oh i got put in my place what ever shall i do
mate have some constructive feed back dont just be a troll im more then happy to hear your side of the argument and i wont be childish and flame you for having a opinion
mate have some constructive feed back dont just be a troll im more then happy to hear your side of the argument and i wont be childish and flame you for having a opinion
lol... a troll! I am not a troll, an ogre maybe but a troll, never!
Actually, this is a valid point; I loved Machinarium (to the point that I have given it as a gift to folks before), and can only plead that I was too tired when posting and overlooked it as a really good recent adventure.
(Didn't care for Edna Breaks Out, I admit, and hadn't heard of the Runaway series. Haven't tried Captain Brawe, but it was on the list of 'try this out when I have time,' so maybe I should punt it a little higher if it's being compared to Machinarium.)
mate have some constructive feed back dont just be a troll im more then happy to hear your side of the argument and i wont be childish and flame you for having a opinion
Well to be fair you really didnt understand what an adventure game was, but then again neither does nintendo.
Well to be fair you really didnt understand what an adventure game was, but then again neither does nintendo.
Thats saying i dont understand life lol i know im contradicting my self here even but its so subjective the game just didnt seem very "adventurous" to me
Thats saying i dont understand life lol i know im contradicting my self here even but its so subjective the game just didnt seem very "adventurous" to me
That's like saying Batman isn't a comic book because it's not very "comical". There's a difference between an adventure game and a game that is adventurous.
Granted, BTTF is very, very, very easy by adventure game standards, but it still fits under the definition of an adventure game, which, as everybody is trying to point out, is different than a game with adventurous qualities.
oh please have you played puzzle agent??? i was playing games like that when i was 8 =/
I just thought of another argument against this. Just because you play a game when you're 8 doesn't make it for children. I know guys who played Leisure suit Larry games when they were 8 and that has sex in it. And are adventure games. Now don't try to tell me Leisure Suit Larry is for children! And no I'm not dropping this.
That's like saying Batman isn't a comic book because it's not very "comical". There's a difference between an adventure game and a game that is adventurous.
This is exactly what I think. One could run with this comparison, for example; when someone purchases a thrash metal album, they can't expect to open the CD case to find an alloy of two or more metallic elements being moved wildly or violently of their own free will.
The adventure game police had this to say, yesterday: 'Move away from the dictionary Sir'. Meanwhile, the EU are proposing a peace treaty and commented: 'We hope to resolve this issue before Flame War III erupts'. President Obama has called for the people of America and beyond to come together and pray for a quick resolve in this time of great need.
He's right about this. I wish there was more danger as well, like older adventure games. Anything to fail and have to try again. It gives the player something to avoid. I'm tired of being spoon-fed everything and getting a pat on the back saying "Nope that wasn't quite it, but don't worry you have infinite more tries to go! You're doing a great job!" I can't stand it.
I am taking that many employees as TTG are former LucasArts guys and their adventures were always made in a way that you couldn't die (with the exception of Full Throttle I think) as opposed to the ones made by Sierra.
I am tired of being spoon fed too but because of this game I am thinking about going to play Sam'n Max (loved the original)
I am taking that many employees as TTG are former LucasArts guys and their adventures were always made in a way that you couldn't die (with the exception of Full Throttle I think) as opposed to the ones made by Sierra.
I am tired of being spoon fed too but because of this game I am thinking about going to play Sam'n Max (loved the original)
Indeed, many of the Lucasarts illuminati formed and work at Telltale. I do think you should give seasons 1-3 of Sam & Max a go, they provide a much greater challenge than BTTF (albeit, not as much of a challenge as Hit the Road).
Oi Vey.
Where do I even begin?
Well first off, It's an adventure game (like everyone was saying). That does not mean it HAS to be adventurous (It'd be nice but it's not a requirement.) Side Note: does the first part of a movie usually have over-the-top action? No. Secondly, Just because you disagree with the genre title DOESN'T mean it's NOT an adventure game, They've been refered to as that forever. Deal with it.
Also, Stop being 11 years old. Wanna be taken seriously (usually)? Use grammar and punctuation.
Indeed, many of the Lucasarts illuminati formed and work at Telltale. I do think you should give seasons 1-3 of Sam & Max a go, they provide a much greater challenge than BTTF (albeit, not as much of a challenge as Hit the Road).
I am already looking into it. I really like the episodic character of their games. I might also get Monkey Island...Loved the first three made by LucasArts
Wanna be taken seriously (usually)? Use grammar and punctuation.
The first rule of the Internet; is that people who possess poor grammar and punctuation skills will always be the most vocal.
The second rule of the Internet; is that the vocal minority are usually incorrect but believe that they have more knowledge (on any given subject) than the educated majority.
The third rule of the Internet; is that the preceding two rules, do in fact apply to life in general.
I don't think you are right because proper grammar and punctuation also has to do with the respect/effort you invest into your post and the people you're discussing with.
Secondly, maybe beeing in a more vocal minority doesn't make your argumentation invalid or nonsense. You can say stupid things as well as true things maybe with more passion/time like others. I've often seen that a clever minority was right but the masses were often more lethargic and needed some more time to get to the point were the minority already was. This is even proofen by physical laws. :O)
I don't think you are right because proper grammar and punctuation also has to do with the respect/effort you invest into your post and the people you're discussing with.
Secondly, maybe beeing in a more vocal minority doesn't make your argumentation invalid or nonsense. You can say stupid things as well as true things maybe with more passion/time like others. I've often seen that a clever minority was right but the masses were often more lethargic and needed some more time to get to the point were the minority already was. This is even proofen by physical laws. :O)
thinking being signed by A. Troll wouldve showed my comment shouldve to being take with pinch of salts
On a somewhat serious note, I do partially agree with your comment, in as much as I believe that nothing in life is black and white (excluding the majestic zebra). Afterall....
The fourth rule of the Internet is; that no forum dweller is right or wrong all of the time, no matter how (il)literate they may be.
Comments
Maybe this is more a monthly magazine for aliens living amongst us where the real information is hidden in the game and they've choosen to do it this way because it fits better to their new layout and pleases some investor from Venus.
Btw am i the only one who feels that the game/release was rushed?
just sell out and make the game enjoyable for everyone =O
Maybe you're right and games like Bone 2, Sam&Max 204, The Last Resort, ... were more slip-ups instead of the climax of TTG's work and BTTF is what they really want to do. Oh well...
maybe they should just be climaxing all the time
even thought that sounds kinda wrong but i mean it in the context you used it
Heck, I'll point out that for most games we remember fondly as the shining pinnacle of adventure gaming, there was criticism at the time of release. Grim Fandango -- arguably one of the greatest adventure games of all time -- was criticized for the puzzles being too hard/the learning curve being too steep. In fact, GF was seen by some as a sign that classic adventure gaming was dead.
No matter what TTG did for this game, some folks weren't going to be happy. BTTF fans were going to nitpick every little detail; witness the thread about whether the explanation of the DeLorean's existence is reasonable or not. Some would say the game was too easy; I admit, I found it a bit more on-rails than I would've liked. Others seem to think that some of the puzzles are too /hard/. Some think both are true; the game being on-rails between difficult puzzles.
As for me, I'm content with what I got for my money. Is episode one perfect? Nah. But despite the rough edges and flaws, I still really enjoyed it. It's been too long since I've had /any/ good adventure game to play, and a chance to continue a much-loved SF series from my childhood? Honestly, it was all gravy. And so I'm still looking forward to the second episode.
(Also, while we're discussing old adventure games and fond childhood memories, anyone else miss Zak McKracken? Talk about a franchise with a ludicrous science-fiction premise that could use a reboot or sequel... hey, you guys listening, TellTale?)
i agree but the biggest let down of this game was the gameplay i liked the story
:
Lisa: Have ever looked at Mike?
Anna: Mike? You mean Mike Stümmel?
Lisa: Yes! He's kind of cute.
Anna: Wow, Lisa! Mike?
Lisa: Yes, i like his full and soft curly hair and the way he sometimes smiles. He seems to be smart as well.
Anna: Oh, ahm, you know what? I've heard rumour about Mike.
Lisa: Really? Which one!
Anna: I forgot my chemistry books last week, so i went back to the labor were Bert and Tim were still cleaning up. Whilst doing so they were talking about video games and the downfall of adventures.
Lisa: Adventures? Which ones?
Anna: I'll explain it later to you. In any case i was searching for my book and at some point Bert said that he doesn't think there exists a lot of adventure gamers anymore. Whereupon Tim said that this isn't fully true and that he personally knows someone who still does. Now guess what!
Lisa: Come one!
Anna: Tim said that Mike, Mike Stümmel, plays adventures!
Lisa: You're kidding me!
Anna: No, it's really true! At first i thought i misheard myself but then Tim repeated it and named a few games Mike mentioned to him. Bert roared with laughter.
Lisa: This, this is sad news. Quite disappointing, i'm almost shocked, how boring.
Anna: I'm sorry but i think you should know about it.
Lisa: Thanks but…
Anna: Have you ever looked at John, he often wears those green jeans and checked shirts but i know he at least is a smart guy.
Lisa: Hmm, how do you know?
Anna: From time to time i saw him playing one of those rather complex shooters in the common room.
Lisa: Really? Wow! Could we have another drink, please?!
:
Such as:
The Runaway series (although short and relatively easy, most puzzles are still *puzzles* in that one)
Captain Brawe
Machinarium
Edna breaks out
etc.
And that's only some of the most recent. So yeah, it is still possible to make good adventure games, TTG just refuse to do it or they lost their mojo because their first couple of seasons/episodes WERE good adventure games.
i got stuck at the soup kitchen but it wasnt a getting better each try time stuck it was more of a i think this game is broken stuck haha
The puzzles were easy, but a few were challenging in ways and I never got the impression they were broken. I think Telltale probably expected a lot of older folks to try this out given that it's BTTF and overcompensated with how introductory it was. You also have to take into account the possibly that Universal had heavy oversight over this (We don't really know the details of the contract, which could potentially tie Telltales hands at difficulty levels).
There is also a flawed idea of what adventure games are in this thread, or how they are defined. As much as our young friend Kanoba would like to alter the name or argue about what is and isn't an adventure game, it's not really his role to do so. Many who play adventure games enjoy slight differences in outcomes based on how they play as the most extreme consequence, not coming to a sudden & unmovable stop in the entire game (equivalent to dying).
I'm using the term 'modern enough' liberally, in that it's not more free-roaming such as GTA and doesn't allow for things like driving the Delorean around Hill Valley or jumping on a hoverboard. While we would all enjoy doing those things, that's not how an adventure game operates. Plus, that's extremely outside the realm of possibility involving a time travel game with current technology.
Here's how a more 'adventurous' BTTF gamers experience would play out and the ensuing gripes from those clamoring for such a game:
"Weee! I'm crashing into things with the Delorean and destroying history! Take that Mr. Strickland and Biff! Pew Pew!"
Followed by...
"WTF!? I returned to the future and that ONE person I killed GTA style has forced the whole game to shut down! WAHHH! THIS GAME IS STUPID!"
OR
"I KILLED ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN THE PAST AND NOTHING CHANGED MY GAME!? THAT'S SO WEAKK!!!! So much for messing up the space time continuum!"
So yeah, we get it. It's not modern enough and it's not 'hard' enough. I'm not sure what you want other than to complain how you feel cheated. Whether it's in regards to the term 'adventure game' being so sneaky or that there are no consequences for decisions.
You realize how bad the difficulty is in BTTF episode 1 when you know those "runaway puzzles" are a hundred times harder ...
Hello,
I know nothing of the adventure gaming genre but shall act as an authoritive figure on the subject all the same. Afterall, I do have access to a dictionary.
Regards,
Mr. Pleb
=============
MY RESPONSE:
Maybe some people should be posting on a Halo forum, at least until they do a bit of research into the genre and get a clue. It occurs to me that if Telltale is to continue to branch out into mainstream IPs; then we had better be prepared for an onslaught of forum posts from opinionated, ignorant know-nothings (in regards to the genre).
What's that?! It's Christmas.... b'ah, humbug.
Oh and I never knew about the runaway series, so maybe I should check it out.
You can see they really took that to the next level with the very slow way they ease you in to the basics of adventure gaming, the heavy handed hint system with it's own button, and they big huge icons on the screen. Funnily enough those icons actually got me stuck on one of the last puzzles because they masked the antenna on the paddy wagon.
Oh i got put in my place what ever shall i do
mate have some constructive feed back dont just be a troll im more then happy to hear your side of the argument and i wont be childish and flame you for having a opinion
lol... a troll! I am not a troll, an ogre maybe but a troll, never!
then write more constructive posts ...
i live in NZ too chch is shaking alot =[
Off to the General forum if you want to discuss this further. though.
its not to bad, do you live in chch aswel?
Actually, this is a valid point; I loved Machinarium (to the point that I have given it as a gift to folks before), and can only plead that I was too tired when posting and overlooked it as a really good recent adventure.
(Didn't care for Edna Breaks Out, I admit, and hadn't heard of the Runaway series. Haven't tried Captain Brawe, but it was on the list of 'try this out when I have time,' so maybe I should punt it a little higher if it's being compared to Machinarium.)
Well to be fair you really didnt understand what an adventure game was, but then again neither does nintendo.
Thats saying i dont understand life lol i know im contradicting my self here even but its so subjective the game just didnt seem very "adventurous" to me
That's like saying Batman isn't a comic book because it's not very "comical". There's a difference between an adventure game and a game that is adventurous.
Granted, BTTF is very, very, very easy by adventure game standards, but it still fits under the definition of an adventure game, which, as everybody is trying to point out, is different than a game with adventurous qualities.
I just thought of another argument against this. Just because you play a game when you're 8 doesn't make it for children. I know guys who played Leisure suit Larry games when they were 8 and that has sex in it. And are adventure games. Now don't try to tell me Leisure Suit Larry is for children! And no I'm not dropping this.
This is exactly what I think. One could run with this comparison, for example; when someone purchases a thrash metal album, they can't expect to open the CD case to find an alloy of two or more metallic elements being moved wildly or violently of their own free will.
The adventure game police had this to say, yesterday: 'Move away from the dictionary Sir'. Meanwhile, the EU are proposing a peace treaty and commented: 'We hope to resolve this issue before Flame War III erupts'. President Obama has called for the people of America and beyond to come together and pray for a quick resolve in this time of great need.
I am taking that many employees as TTG are former LucasArts guys and their adventures were always made in a way that you couldn't die (with the exception of Full Throttle I think) as opposed to the ones made by Sierra.
I am tired of being spoon fed too but because of this game I am thinking about going to play Sam'n Max (loved the original)
Indeed, many of the Lucasarts illuminati formed and work at Telltale. I do think you should give seasons 1-3 of Sam & Max a go, they provide a much greater challenge than BTTF (albeit, not as much of a challenge as Hit the Road).
Where do I even begin?
Well first off, It's an adventure game (like everyone was saying). That does not mean it HAS to be adventurous (It'd be nice but it's not a requirement.) Side Note: does the first part of a movie usually have over-the-top action? No. Secondly, Just because you disagree with the genre title DOESN'T mean it's NOT an adventure game, They've been refered to as that forever. Deal with it.
Also, Stop being 11 years old. Wanna be taken seriously (usually)? Use grammar and punctuation.
I am already looking into it. I really like the episodic character of their games. I might also get Monkey Island...Loved the first three made by LucasArts
The first rule of the Internet; is that people who possess poor grammar and punctuation skills will always be the most vocal.
The second rule of the Internet; is that the vocal minority are usually incorrect but believe that they have more knowledge (on any given subject) than the educated majority.
The third rule of the Internet; is that the preceding two rules, do in fact apply to life in general.
Signed,
Mr. Alberto Troll
Not unless it's a s#!t fest by Micheal Bay.
Secondly, maybe beeing in a more vocal minority doesn't make your argumentation invalid or nonsense. You can say stupid things as well as true things maybe with more passion/time like others. I've often seen that a clever minority was right but the masses were often more lethargic and needed some more time to get to the point were the minority already was. This is even proofen by physical laws. :O)
thinking being signed by A. Troll wouldve showed my comment shouldve to being take with pinch of salts
On a somewhat serious note, I do partially agree with your comment, in as much as I believe that nothing in life is black and white (excluding the majestic zebra). Afterall....
The fourth rule of the Internet is; that no forum dweller is right or wrong all of the time, no matter how (il)literate they may be.