Oh yeah, and for the arsonist thing if this is very plot heavy (though I could be wrong, what with everything has a purpose in the BTTF series), I call it on Edna. I dunno why, but I have a heavy suspicion it's her. Hell, for all we know it's character we haven't even met yet. We still have, what, three episodes left to have it summed up? We're bound to figure out who the arsonist is.
...it's Artie McFly. I'm not counting on Marty, Doc, or any other time travelers to be the speakeasy arsonist. It has to be somebody native to that timeline. Artie's the guy you'd least suspect, which makes him the best candidate for the job...
My own gut says it was a time-travelling Edna, having stolen the time machine at some point after learning that it existed in 1931. The shoe makes me think of Back to the Future 2, and Old Biff's cane - to paraphrase Doc's rationale, "It was in the time machine because she was in the time machine!" Who else but a time traveller intent on redeeming a particular town of sin would keep a copy of every single printed newspaper in that area? The dream sequence at the beginning of part 1 makes me think that it's some foreshadowing of the theft of the time machine.
I just played Ep. 2 again and I noticed that Matches brings the stick of dynamite a while after Eunice's boyfriend (remember the couple at the alcove?) is kicked out of the place. You can click on the alcove many times, Cueball takes him out and he'll come back, but he won't after Matches brings the explosive. When Parker clears the speakeasy, Eunice's boyfriend isn't there. Then, in the final sequence. he's in the line for the movies, but goes away and only Eunice stays. I don't know, it's not much, might be circumstancial, but I found him suspiscious.
The guy at the soup kitchen is CLEARLY the arsonist.
No, not the Cueball, I'm talking about the guy who sits in the back near the phone. He was looking VERY suspicious and the way he was eating his soup seemed to imply that he had something else on his mind. Obviously his malicious intentions are hidden behind the image of a simple citizen enjoying his soup..
You know, when it comes to time travel stories, there's always the possibility of a stable time loop. In this case, it's one that spans through about a dozen different timelines, but still stable. What we assume is the original timeline where Doc dies may actually be one part of a cycling set of timelines from repeated meddling by Marty. Next timeline we wind up with is where Doc dies in a different way. Then where Marty's dad was never born. Then where the Tannens own the town. Then where First Citizen Brown rules with an iron fist. And then a few others that we might visit in the later parts. The story may end with one of our existing characters going back to before the whole debacle happened in order to set the speakeasy on fire and get the plot rolling in the first place.
Having said that... It might be that Doc really did start the fire. He knocked himself out so that there wouldn't be any witnesses. How else would the arsonist know where to find him?
Other possibilities for the arsonist: Marty. Einstein. The other Einstein. Hitler (why do time travellers always somehow wind up meeting him?). Carl Sagan. John F Kennedy, right before he assassinated himself. With time travel and stable time loops, anything is possible.
I can say I really like your theory, Flah! Why not? Actually, if your thinking works out in the end, my preferred scenario is the one in which Edna from some version of 1986 (from a point AFTER Marty's original time travel to 1931, of course) actually goes back in time with Marty and Doc to redeem herself by setting the speakeasy on fire, and actually inspire her younger self, thus becoming her own hero!!! Now THAT would be a twist, if you ask me!!! The only problem is, how will Doc and Marty preserve the secret of time-travelling for themselves?... Hmmm... Guess a bump on the head should do it... Also, in your theory, it makes sense that Doc's been gone that long in the original 1986, because it took a Delorean to finally reappear out of nowhere for Marty to figure out why, as he couldn't have guessed that himself after just a slight pause from Doc. (I think this one is just due to his sharpness. Oh, and he'd just have to wait for the Delorean to appear, which wouldn't happen in another several months, and it'd probably blow his mind, so it's probably better for him to be this way. ) So, having said that, at the end of this adventure they could just return to 1986 BEFORE Doc's long pause, have a good incognito time somewhere, and wait for another (how many again?) months just to appear at the right time and claim Doc's possessions without damaging the time loop. The funny thing I'm trying to point out, Doc could've been well alive hidden somewhere in 1986 AND dead back in 1931 "at the same time"!!!
It's always really bugged me when time travel stories combine elements of you-can-alter-history theories with you-can't-alter-history theories. Star Trek, Stargate, and Doctor Who have all done it. And, most egregiously, so has "The End of Eternity". (I expect better from you, Isaac Asimov!) You have to pick what rules you're going to follow and stick with them, I say.
I hope that's as simple as preservation of time loops which are always complex and potentially broadly spanning through multiple partially parallel linear time portions (meaning, actually MADE of changes to linear time portions, as explained above), and stable enough if nothing TRULY radical happens, and if that's how time functions in BTTF universe, then everything should fit. On the other hand, does time function like that in real life??? That's what I'd really like to know...
Although, we can agree that BTTF pretty much successfully sums up the coolest aspects of both theories. :cool:
and finally, here are my very own ideas for any potential character(s) being the arsonist: Edna: watch the final scene of episode 2, where she and young Emmett do NOT go inside the movie theater. Since this is the reason why there's now FCB and his reeducation program in 1986, it's obvious that she somehow managed to make Emmett doing anything she wants him to do.
(long speech and short sense: Edna is frightened that someone could find out, so she uses Emmett for a programme that avoids other citizens from minding about the arsonist thing)
Artie: He was out of town for two months, maybe he burned down the other two speakeasies as well. But he'd be the least I'd suspect since the other two burning speakeasies could still be coincidence. (What if the others were also burned down in the original timeline? As far as I know Artie "originally" didn't leave HV)
Matches, Cue Ball and Zane: Maybe Kid wanted to move, but couldn't leave back the first speakeasy's location as it was so he told them to burn it down.
Plus, in ep2, when Matches tells Kid about the dynamite that is all over the place, he has that strange sound in his voice. Plus Kid's reaction could also mean that Matches shouldn't "show" him that he has finished putting the dynamite everywhere.
Trixie: maybe she needed a Plan B for the case that Plan A (the insurance thing) would fail.
someone unknown: It's still possible, that we haven't met the arsonist yet.
The other speakeasies burning down was probably the result of Kid eliminating the competition. Kid burnt down his own speakeasy first so the rival gangsters wouldn't suspect him, and then built a larger speakeasy in a different location to hold the extra customers.
I can say I really like your theory, Flah! Why not? Actually, if your thinking works out in the end, my preferred scenario is the one in which Edna from some version of 1986 (from a point AFTER Marty's original time travel to 1931, of course) actually goes back in time with Marty and Doc to redeem herself by setting the speakeasy on fire, and actually inspire her younger self, thus becoming her own hero!!! Now THAT would be a twist, if you ask me!!! The only problem is, how will Doc and Marty preserve the secret of time-travelling for themselves?... Hmmm... Guess a bump on the head should do it... Also, in your theory, it makes sense that Doc's been gone that long in the original 1986, because it took a Delorean to finally reappear out of nowhere for Marty to figure out why, as he couldn't have guessed that himself after just a slight pause from Doc. (I think this one is just about his sharpness. Oh, and he'd just have to wait for the Delorean to appear, which wouldn't happen in another several months, and it'd probably blow his mind, so it's probably better for him to be this way. ) So, having said that, at the end of this adventure they could just return to 1986 BEFORE Doc's long pause, have a good incognito time somewhere, and wait for another (how many again?) months just to appear at the right time and claim Doc's possessions without damaging the time loop. The funny thing I'm trying to point out, Doc could've been well alive hidden somewhere in 1986 AND dead back in 1931 "at the same time"!!!
I hope that's as simple as preservation of time loops which are always complex and potentially broadly spanning through multiple partially parallel linear time portions (meaning, actually MADE of changes to linear time portions, as explained above), and stable enough if nothing TRULY radical happens, and if that's how time functions in BTTF universe, then everything should fit. On the other hand, does time function like that in real life??? That's what I'd really like to know...
Although, we can agree that BTTF pretty much successfully sums up the coolest aspects of both theories. :cool:
I am confused. All this just basically went in my brain then left as fast. But you said alive in 1986 and dead in 1931 at the same time. It is technecally not the same time .
I am confused. All this just basically went in my brain then left as fast. But you said alive in 1986 and dead in 1931 at the same time. It is technecally not the same time .
Well, that's precisely why I put the 'at the same time' part between quotation marks! If that's not how it's specified properly, then somebody please tell me... What I meant is, Doc could theoretically be alive and hidden somewhere safe in 1986 (at a point in time when the adventure in our beloved game both begins and ends), with the papers still saying he was shot (even though he wasn't in the end!), because the time loop would resolve like that anyway, only that's invisible and unknowable to anyone outside it (and you can only enter it by that one time travel).
I wonder if that is how the shoe ends up in the delorean; einstein sees her planting the explosive, attacks her and takes he shoe. Mind you this shoe thing is something i'm having trouble wrapping my brain around; it could not have come from a later time travel in epsidodes 3-5 since they have not happened yet and this would not fit the space time continuim the way BTTF has it. But it doesn't appear that einstein had stolen her shoe yet or she would have complained about that?
She has complained abotu it more than once, when Marty first travels to 1931 and speaks to Edna Edna says about Einstein "keep that mangy mutt away from me it has attacked me once before"
When I played the episode, I didn't even question that Edna did it. She has two known motives, to create news to report on and to stop the flow of booze.
Doc said he didn't do it which leaves both him and young Emmett out. Marty clearly didn't do it, and Kid himself wouldn't do it. Beyond that the only other possibilities would include minor characters like Cueball or a character we haven't met yet.
Comments
As for the arsonist, that would be me.
Yeah, that took me also a bit of time to piece together.
Oh yeah, and for the arsonist thing if this is very plot heavy (though I could be wrong, what with everything has a purpose in the BTTF series), I call it on Edna. I dunno why, but I have a heavy suspicion it's her. Hell, for all we know it's character we haven't even met yet. We still have, what, three episodes left to have it summed up? We're bound to figure out who the arsonist is.
No, not the Cueball, I'm talking about the guy who sits in the back near the phone. He was looking VERY suspicious and the way he was eating his soup seemed to imply that he had something else on his mind. Obviously his malicious intentions are hidden behind the image of a simple citizen enjoying his soup..
The movies imply that, the whole time, we're following the "original" Marty McFly. The one from the entirely 100% bona fide unaltered timeline.
How sure are we that that's what we're dealing with this time? This could very well be a Marty from several recursions in.
I can say I really like your theory, Flah! Why not? Actually, if your thinking works out in the end, my preferred scenario is the one in which Edna from some version of 1986 (from a point AFTER Marty's original time travel to 1931, of course) actually goes back in time with Marty and Doc to redeem herself by setting the speakeasy on fire, and actually inspire her younger self, thus becoming her own hero!!! Now THAT would be a twist, if you ask me!!!
I hope that's as simple as preservation of time loops which are always complex and potentially broadly spanning through multiple partially parallel linear time portions (meaning, actually MADE of changes to linear time portions, as explained above), and stable enough if nothing TRULY radical happens, and if that's how time functions in BTTF universe, then everything should fit. On the other hand, does time function like that in real life??? That's what I'd really like to know...
Although, we can agree that BTTF pretty much successfully sums up the coolest aspects of both theories. :cool:
Edna: watch the final scene of episode 2, where she and young Emmett do NOT go inside the movie theater. Since this is the reason why there's now FCB and his reeducation program in 1986, it's obvious that she somehow managed to make Emmett doing anything she wants him to do.
(long speech and short sense: Edna is frightened that someone could find out, so she uses Emmett for a programme that avoids other citizens from minding about the arsonist thing)
Artie: He was out of town for two months, maybe he burned down the other two speakeasies as well. But he'd be the least I'd suspect since the other two burning speakeasies could still be coincidence. (What if the others were also burned down in the original timeline? As far as I know Artie "originally" didn't leave HV)
Matches, Cue Ball and Zane: Maybe Kid wanted to move, but couldn't leave back the first speakeasy's location as it was so he told them to burn it down.
Plus, in ep2, when Matches tells Kid about the dynamite that is all over the place, he has that strange sound in his voice. Plus Kid's reaction could also mean that Matches shouldn't "show" him that he has finished putting the dynamite everywhere.
Trixie: maybe she needed a Plan B for the case that Plan A (the insurance thing) would fail.
someone unknown: It's still possible, that we haven't met the arsonist yet.
I am confused. All this just basically went in my brain then left as fast. But you said alive in 1986 and dead in 1931 at the same time. It is technecally not the same time
Thank you for the help. I have been wondering what that meant for quite some time.
Well, that's precisely why I put the 'at the same time' part between quotation marks! If that's not how it's specified properly, then somebody please tell me...
She has complained abotu it more than once, when Marty first travels to 1931 and speaks to Edna Edna says about Einstein "keep that mangy mutt away from me it has attacked me once before"
It actually can be a time traveller, if they managed to cause the fire before the original arsonist did.
wait for it.....
stalling tactics....
Judge Brown.... <___<
Doc said he didn't do it which leaves both him and young Emmett out. Marty clearly didn't do it, and Kid himself wouldn't do it. Beyond that the only other possibilities would include minor characters like Cueball or a character we haven't met yet.