all good points. as i said, you veteran gamers are probably finding bttf a bore. many of my hardened gamer friends wouldnt even bother with this. i was merely stating a POSITIVE way of looking at it.
i understand what you mean about the puzzles not requiring alot of brain power. they are pretty easy, but again that just makes it less intimidating to us newbies.
and its not the first adventure game ive played. back in the 90s i played doom, most of the pokemons, a bit of tomb raider. i just always found them too involved for me to pick up. i losttrack of games in the early 2000s, and aside from bttf the only games i play are grand theft auto (on pc)because of the free roam element - and that the individual missions are sort of puzzles in themselves.
yeah i suppose youre right, i am only seeing the "tip of the iceberg", but thats my point. it was a good tip to see, and now im inclinded to see what else is beneath the surface.
Okay uhh, I'm sorry, I'm nitpicking no longer. It is true that BTTF:The Game attracts new Adventure players to the genre, which is the ONLY excuse Telltale can use at the time to reason out the low difficulty level, and it's a positive effect. If you ask me, the only positive effect and it's not that much of a spectacular one, especially if you're also alienating your already acquired fandom at the same time.
By the way, to show you the special aspects of adventure games I suggest you to play Sam and Max series. If you find the games too expensive (there are three individual titles completely developed and published by Telltale, first two seasons being 25 and third being 35 dollars), just wait and have an eye on the discounts on the Telltale store.
oh and as far as "when there wernt dual core processors etc" im a megadrive child. i had to explain to a kid what a mini disc was the other day.
so im right with you there
Same here. To be honest, at the time I wasn't even exposed to the PC gaming so I didn't know much about adventure games since I was all about platforming.
The concept of an easy game to cater to adventure gaming newbies is similar to the idea of giving someone a tricycle to teach them how to ride a bicycle. A better solution is adding training wheels to a bicycle and easing them into actually riding on their own. If BttF had multiple difficulty settings with varying levels of hints and more/better puzzles at higher difficulty, it could have been great, instead, it's just a watered down "click to continue" drawn out cutscene.
The concept of an easy game to cater to adventure gaming newbies is similar to the idea of giving someone a tricycle to teach them how to ride a bicycle. A better solution is adding training wheels to a bicycle and easing them into actually riding on their own. If BttF had multiple difficulty settings with varying levels of hints and more/better puzzles at higher difficulty, it could have been great, instead, it's just a watered down "click to continue" drawn out cutscene.
I feel like Telltale's previous stuff has largely been exactly the same, though, and I still love it.
The concept of an easy game to cater to adventure gaming newbies is similar to the idea of giving someone a tricycle to teach them how to ride a bicycle. A better solution is adding training wheels to a bicycle and easing them into actually riding on their own. If BttF had multiple difficulty settings with varying levels of hints and more/better puzzles at higher difficulty, it could have been great, instead, it's just a watered down "click to continue" drawn out cutscene.
Might want to note that over on the BTTF forums for a possible season 2 improvement.
It is true that BTTF:The Game attracts new Adventure players to the genre, which is the ONLY excuse Telltale can use at the time to reason out the low difficulty level, and it's a positive effect. If you ask me, the only positive effect and it's not that much of a spectacular one, especially if you're also alienating your already acquired fandom at the same time.
yeah, thats true. and thanks for the reccommendations.
i liked what someone else just suggested about multiple difficulty levels, thus attracting players of all levels and disciplines. that way telltale could meet a wider demographic and satisfy as many people as possible.
i dont know how games are built (apart from a basic understanding) so i dont know how technically feasible this would be given their time frame and budget. which i also dont know.
I don't think it would be difficult, they could just put several challenging puzzles in each episode, and have an "easy" mode that either gives you a series of hints ending with a walkthrough, or just skips puzzles/puzzle elements entirely (like MI2 and CMI did).
I don't think it's a big issue unless Telltale is the only place you get your adventure games from. Back in the day there were a range of easy to hard adventure games and Telltale released a really easy one in BttF.
Give me the ability to walk and explore manually in Jurassic Park and then we'll talk about being interested. Otherwise I'm not giving it the time of day.
and its not the first adventure game ive played. back in the 90s i played doom, most of the pokemons, a bit of tomb raider.
Those aren't adventure games, man.
You do have a point, though, it brought new players in fine. Excellent. Awesome. If they would have TOLD us that to begin with when we were all preordering expecting something akin to Monkey Island or even Sam & Max season 3 it'd be a lot easier to forgive. But they advertised it like they did any other franchise and we all thought we were going to get something far better than we received. Some of us feel a little taken advantage of there.
Also, Sam & Max Episode 4 from Season 1 "Abe Lincoln Must Die!" is free for anyone to play. Try that out.
Give me the ability to walk and explore manually in Jurassic Park and then we'll talk about being interested. Otherwise I'm not giving it the time of day.
Have you seen the in-game footage? You can explore through hotspots - like any adventure game. The only difference is that hotspot are highlighted with a key button.
I understand you: you just want JP:TG to be like a Penumbra/Amnesia game. But THAT'S NOT what TT is aiming to. Here there are jeeps, cinematics & different characters interactions - a cinematic graphic adventure game, not an exploration one.
And IMHO in this case having not the ability to walk and explore manually is good: they can concentrate on the camera movements to add drama, and they can improve detail because they work on a single camera shot instead of an entire landscape.
And personally I hope they'll drop the walking ability at all in all the graphic adventure games. It's not necessary and it's almost boring: I always double click on the exit, and the game doesn't lose anything. And I do this from MI3.
No, you don't understand. I don't want it to be an FPS. I don't want lit-up hotspots, and I don't want to be led around everywhere I'm SUPPOSED to go. I don't want camera movements for drama for cutscenes. I want to PLAY A GAME. I want control. Even Heavy Rain had the ability to walk and it did its cinematic sequences quite easily and intuitively. I don't want more control taken away from me to make gameplay easier.
I don't want to play Jurassic Park. Not my cup of tea.
At first I was afraid because it wasn't open world, BUT, I'm actually embracing the gameplay now. It seems to really work with everything and I can see why you don't have to move around. I guess you could say I'm just ready for this game to come! I'm extremely impatient.
I'm not blaming TT for anything. I do think removing the ability to walk is a regression not an advancement, though. I consider it bad gameplay design.
I'm not blaming TT for anything. I do think removing the ability to walk is a regression not an advancement, though. I consider it bad gameplay design.
At the contrary, I consider it an advancement.
I think the fun part of a TT game is to make characters evolve through the story, not to make them walk.
It doesn't add anything, and in adventures often leads to a lot of backtracking just to push a button - that's not so playful either.
Walking allowed you to discover objects you wouldn't normally see if you weren't standing in the right position. This means manual walking allowed you to discover new things that you couldn't see from a single vantage point. As easy as it was to find hotspots in a Telltale game compared to older games that didn't have hotspots at all, it still required more action on the player's part to look around for things. That adds to puzzles. Looking at static cinema-angled shots that show you where everything is? That's just not why I liked Telltale games.
It just seems to me that Telltale are continuously attempting to look for more ways for the player not to have to actually do much of anything in their games to beat it. Games are not all about story. If there's no gameplay there's no game. There's just a cinematic movie. And that's not why I put money down for a game. Least of all an adventure game. But I guess this game really isn't an adventure game. It's more like Puzzle Agent.
I will give Telltale this, though: at least they're being upfront about what Jurassic Park is going to be like. Unlike BTTF when we all thought we were getting a good challenging adventure and all we got was a mediocre click-fest cinematic. If Telltale are going to continue going down this road of not making adventure games, I'm not going to be their customer anymore.
*shudders thinking about the upcoming King's Quest*
Walking allowed you to discover objects you wouldn't normally see if you weren't standing in the right position. This means manual walking allowed you to discover new things that you couldn't see from a single vantage point.
We finally got rid of pixel hunting and you invent hidden objects?
BTW I understand, but why you wanna hide objects? Adventures are not about where's the object I need, but how do I use the objects I have to accomplish a result.
It just seems to me that Telltale are continuously attempting to look for more ways for the player not to have to actually do much of anything in their games to beat it.
What? Can I remember you that (for the first time on a TT game) you can die if you don't do anything or you're not quick enough?
Games are not all about story. If there's no gameplay there's no game. There's just a cinematic movie.
I think this is the first TT game where cinematics are part of the game, because of QTE. I think there will be more to play here that in the whole BTTF where cinematics were just "sit&watch".
I will give Telltale this, though: at least they're being upfront about what Jurassic Park is going to be like. Unlike BTTF when we all thought we were getting a good challenging adventure and all we got was a mediocre click-fest cinematic.
They always said that for BTTF they "choosed for a casual approach" way before the release.
My opinion? You got a Dogma of what is Right and what is Wrong.
Walking is right, hotspots are wrong, etc. That's not good, free your mind, and take what the game offers, play if you want and then judge.
I appreciate you give suggestions, and that's ok, but how can you really tell what's good for a game you've never played?
I really don't like onions. I don't like them at all. I'll never use them. But when someone offered me fried onions, well, that way they worked well.
We finally got rid of pixel hunting and you invent hidden objects?
BTW I understand, but why you wanna hide objects? Adventures are not about where's the object I need, but how do I use the objects I have to accomplish a result.
No, that's what puzzle games are about. Adventure games are about discovering and exploring a new world and figuring out which of the objects on screen are interactive and which are not by experimenting. Heck in the good adventures you could even acquire objects that don't do anything at all to further your progress. Like the real world. I don't want everything in the game handed to me on a silver platter with big red signs saying "CLICK ME!" I want to discover for myself which objects are truly interactive and usable. You look at my point of view as unnecessary and I look at your point of view as pointless. Why bother playing something that sticks so closely to a script? At least when you have a lot of red herrings you have a bit more of a challenge. You obviously find that annoying, but I consider that the very joy of it all.
What? Can I remember you that (for the first time on a TT game) you can die if you don't do anything or you're not quick enough?
Yeah, and you can take one step forward and two steps back from where you're standing but you're still not getting anywhere.
I think this is the first TT game where cinematics are part of the game, because of QTE. I think there will be more to play here that in the whole BTTF where cinematics were just "sit&watch".
At least you could walk around and control your own character in BTTF. Not that that added anything. But that's different. BTTF was badly designed. Removing walking does nothing but dumb things down by making the game go by faster.
They always said that for BTTF they "choosed for a casual approach" way before the release.
Give me a source.
My opinion? You got a Dogma of what is Right and what is Wrong.
Walking is right, hotspots are wrong, etc. That's not good, free your mind, and take what the game offers, play if you want and then judge.
I appreciate you give suggestions, and that's ok, but how can you really tell what's good for a game you've never played?
I really don't like onions. I don't like them at all. I'll never use them. But when someone offered me fried onions, well, that way they worked well.
Jurassic Park is not an adventure game and doesn't claim to be, Telltale have said as much long ago. So I'm uninterested in it. At least you could control your own character in Heavy Rain and go where you want to go. That added more than it took away for me personally. I'm not about to pay money for a glorified DVD menu game or another Dragon's Lair. We're supposed to advance gameplay not regress.
Comments
all good points. as i said, you veteran gamers are probably finding bttf a bore. many of my hardened gamer friends wouldnt even bother with this. i was merely stating a POSITIVE way of looking at it.
i understand what you mean about the puzzles not requiring alot of brain power. they are pretty easy, but again that just makes it less intimidating to us newbies.
and its not the first adventure game ive played. back in the 90s i played doom, most of the pokemons, a bit of tomb raider. i just always found them too involved for me to pick up. i losttrack of games in the early 2000s, and aside from bttf the only games i play are grand theft auto (on pc)because of the free roam element - and that the individual missions are sort of puzzles in themselves.
yeah i suppose youre right, i am only seeing the "tip of the iceberg", but thats my point. it was a good tip to see, and now im inclinded to see what else is beneath the surface.
so im right with you there
RPG.
Action/adventure, which has its big differences.
Okay uhh, I'm sorry, I'm nitpicking no longer. It is true that BTTF:The Game attracts new Adventure players to the genre, which is the ONLY excuse Telltale can use at the time to reason out the low difficulty level, and it's a positive effect. If you ask me, the only positive effect and it's not that much of a spectacular one, especially if you're also alienating your already acquired fandom at the same time.
By the way, to show you the special aspects of adventure games I suggest you to play Sam and Max series. If you find the games too expensive (there are three individual titles completely developed and published by Telltale, first two seasons being 25 and third being 35 dollars), just wait and have an eye on the discounts on the Telltale store.
Same here. To be honest, at the time I wasn't even exposed to the PC gaming so I didn't know much about adventure games since I was all about platforming.
i have to agree with falanca on that sorry but duke nukem looks pretty dumb
I feel like Telltale's previous stuff has largely been exactly the same, though, and I still love it.
Read this!
yeah, thats true. and thanks for the reccommendations.
i liked what someone else just suggested about multiple difficulty levels, thus attracting players of all levels and disciplines. that way telltale could meet a wider demographic and satisfy as many people as possible.
i dont know how games are built (apart from a basic understanding) so i dont know how technically feasible this would be given their time frame and budget. which i also dont know.
Those aren't adventure games, man.
You do have a point, though, it brought new players in fine. Excellent. Awesome. If they would have TOLD us that to begin with when we were all preordering expecting something akin to Monkey Island or even Sam & Max season 3 it'd be a lot easier to forgive. But they advertised it like they did any other franchise and we all thought we were going to get something far better than we received. Some of us feel a little taken advantage of there.
Also, Sam & Max Episode 4 from Season 1 "Abe Lincoln Must Die!" is free for anyone to play. Try that out.
Have you seen the in-game footage? You can explore through hotspots - like any adventure game. The only difference is that hotspot are highlighted with a key button.
I understand you: you just want JP:TG to be like a Penumbra/Amnesia game. But THAT'S NOT what TT is aiming to. Here there are jeeps, cinematics & different characters interactions - a cinematic graphic adventure game, not an exploration one.
And IMHO in this case having not the ability to walk and explore manually is good: they can concentrate on the camera movements to add drama, and they can improve detail because they work on a single camera shot instead of an entire landscape.
And personally I hope they'll drop the walking ability at all in all the graphic adventure games. It's not necessary and it's almost boring: I always double click on the exit, and the game doesn't lose anything. And I do this from MI3.
I don't want to play Jurassic Park. Not my cup of tea.
Ok, that's fair.
Just don't blame TT for that.
At the contrary, I consider it an advancement.
I think the fun part of a TT game is to make characters evolve through the story, not to make them walk.
It doesn't add anything, and in adventures often leads to a lot of backtracking just to push a button - that's not so playful either.
Poles apart.
It just seems to me that Telltale are continuously attempting to look for more ways for the player not to have to actually do much of anything in their games to beat it. Games are not all about story. If there's no gameplay there's no game. There's just a cinematic movie. And that's not why I put money down for a game. Least of all an adventure game. But I guess this game really isn't an adventure game. It's more like Puzzle Agent.
I will give Telltale this, though: at least they're being upfront about what Jurassic Park is going to be like. Unlike BTTF when we all thought we were getting a good challenging adventure and all we got was a mediocre click-fest cinematic. If Telltale are going to continue going down this road of not making adventure games, I'm not going to be their customer anymore.
*shudders thinking about the upcoming King's Quest*
We finally got rid of pixel hunting and you invent hidden objects?
BTW I understand, but why you wanna hide objects? Adventures are not about where's the object I need, but how do I use the objects I have to accomplish a result.
What? Can I remember you that (for the first time on a TT game) you can die if you don't do anything or you're not quick enough?
I think this is the first TT game where cinematics are part of the game, because of QTE. I think there will be more to play here that in the whole BTTF where cinematics were just "sit&watch".
They always said that for BTTF they "choosed for a casual approach" way before the release.
My opinion? You got a Dogma of what is Right and what is Wrong.
Walking is right, hotspots are wrong, etc. That's not good, free your mind, and take what the game offers, play if you want and then judge.
I appreciate you give suggestions, and that's ok, but how can you really tell what's good for a game you've never played?
I really don't like onions. I don't like them at all. I'll never use them. But when someone offered me fried onions, well, that way they worked well.
No, that's what puzzle games are about. Adventure games are about discovering and exploring a new world and figuring out which of the objects on screen are interactive and which are not by experimenting. Heck in the good adventures you could even acquire objects that don't do anything at all to further your progress. Like the real world. I don't want everything in the game handed to me on a silver platter with big red signs saying "CLICK ME!" I want to discover for myself which objects are truly interactive and usable. You look at my point of view as unnecessary and I look at your point of view as pointless. Why bother playing something that sticks so closely to a script? At least when you have a lot of red herrings you have a bit more of a challenge. You obviously find that annoying, but I consider that the very joy of it all.
Yeah, and you can take one step forward and two steps back from where you're standing but you're still not getting anywhere.
OH, MY GOD, YES. Please, make this happen! *drools and his eyes go sparkly*