I'll go back ten minutes early...ARGH!!!
So, how is Marty going to warn doc about his murder if he shows up 10 minutes early and the other marty is standing right there??:rolleyes:
AND...why would Doc set up the same thing to happen with the Lybians? In the present of that time line Marty returns to, Doc already knows about the murdering and in that present it's clearly the future of those past events they've changed time with...his parents have changed, and it's a alternative reality...
So why would Doc have Marty go back to 1955 again? Wouldn't that create another alternative time line or something??
AND...why would Doc set up the same thing to happen with the Lybians? In the present of that time line Marty returns to, Doc already knows about the murdering and in that present it's clearly the future of those past events they've changed time with...his parents have changed, and it's a alternative reality...
So why would Doc have Marty go back to 1955 again? Wouldn't that create another alternative time line or something??
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first off marty doesn't know about the rules of time travel yet and doesn't learn about the 'other self' paradoxes until the next film.
doc knew he had to do everything the same to that time to avoid a paradox.
I don't think the thing with the Lybians could be avoided, Doc needed plutonium and that was the only source.
Doc would have knowingly sent Marty back "again" to complete the time loop that was already in motion.
I'll buy that. I had not considered that 10 times was enough time. But I guess it could of worked out to be enough, barely...:D
Well this loop is hard to justify as it's a time loop through alternative time lines...and yet the time lines have merged into one...??
??
LOL...
But, I suppose it's valid that it's hard to get fuel, but by the time of movie two it's Mr.Fusion.
But, if it's an alternative time line to begin with and everything's different then why would old Marty still be there to begin with doing the same thing he was doing? Ok, it's believable he be there...but why would Doc set this up again?
I ask, BECAUSE...His parents have changed, everything is different but old Marty is still there going back in time to a now ALTERNATIVE PAST BECAUSE it's an alternative future he is traveling back from...So he's going back to a alternative 1955 as it's an alternative 1955 future..., alternative 1985 present.
PARADOX, creates another time line, once again...and that's not what Doc would want. Leaving well enough alone would be best for everyone.
EDIT: The new Marty travels back in time and takes the place of old Marty in 1955
It's very obvious doc knows whats going on in fact he even knows the time marty is supposed to return at as he set the time circuits for 1:35 (he doesnt realize marty changed it). Doc could have set up the time travel experiment for an hour earlier so he could leave without the libyans not showing up but he does so marty will leave, thinking doc was shot to death, accidently end up in 1955 to keep the time loop going.
I think we're on the same topic but I'm not sure yet.
Gotta remember. Back to the Future doesn't follow any set rules of time travel. It kind of makes it up as it goes.
at least from the perspective or part I, everything would have happened in the same manner. In both timelines, marty still would have seen george about to get hit by the car and pushed him out of the way. Now in the new one they meed differently but marty still would have had the disappearing picture and realized he had to get them together.
This theory does kind of get blown away in the sequels when they travel through time inentionally to change the timeline.
Ok, wait, I think I get it now. This makes sense.
The time line Marty returns to, no...it doesn't make sense, nevermind. Doc has the note at the same time marty goes back in time to 1955.
The only thing that makes sense is if after Doc makes the time machine, if that alternate time line was already created.Which could make sense. It's a theory that a time machine, device can only "travel" as far back as the creation of its "traveling device". Or, it suggests Destiny, fate of some sort.
Because, the present Marty returns to is the future of the alternative time line that they have changed in the alternative time line past. Doc has the note.
And also, hold up now, it gets real ugly when Marty comes back to the past of the alternative time line because his parents would already be together based on what the other Marty had already done, and their would be two Martys....and even if he replaced the other Marty, things still get really screwed up because things are different and it's just a mess, a complete mess...
There would be two martys, evidence? The second movie, only in reality their would be THREE MARTYS....:p
Unless one replaced the other but in that order, that wouldn't likely happen. So we now have 3-4 alternative time lines...
It almost would make sense if the time line Marty returned to was the same up until the other Marty time travels back to the past and then the new time line takes over...But doc has the note in his pocket for all those years meaning the changes took effect in that time line immediately.
We're looking at 3-4 time lines if not more.
Why would Doc even try the experiment if he already knew it worked? The loop theory is sort of paradoxed because it's a alternative time line...
the only way there can be 2 of the same character at the same time is if one eventually leaves due to time travel.
We dont know if Doc still does the one minute experiment in the new timeline. I kind of think he does, he still wanted to get the time travel on tape. He just needs to ensure he witholds all 1955 info from Marty.
None of that matters though cause who cares about some alternate Marty.
Besides, I guess not even Doc knows for sure how all this time-travel stuff really works, after all he only just made his first successful time jump. All the studying of time beforehand may have given him a good amount of knowledge to base theories on, but honestly... look at the movies and you'll see he's not very accurate in his predictions.
....now where was I? Oh yeah, it's NOT a loop!
To be fair, the only way to work around story flaws with time travel is to find a Loop hole of some sort,
As we know it, it's para science, psuedo science, science fiction, but it's not, but heck if I defend that...
But, sociologically, we have the luxury to write novels, movies, books, songs on time travel, games even...so it's natural to find a abstract, creative solution to time traveling flaws as in this state of consciousness, awareness, it's more fantasy and fiction than it is reality...
This ripple thing might make sense.
Yes, but why would doc be alive in time line A , even if it was time line B, would why A and B be the same time lines?
I think the real answer is the writing was just honoring the concept of having a cliff hanging in the movie that was changed with time travel.
Yes, it gets pretty screwy.:p I lost my train of thought but it rains about 3 times in BTTF Part II...
B - Has a picture of doc in 1885 , and a article about his death where Clara "his beloved"
Later , Marty says that his school has legends of a teacher going over the cannon and dieing. Obviously he's referring to his time line, and if it's the same time line as the one where he has the photo of Doc in 1885, and the article of his death and Clara, his beloved, then it's a mess up...
Is he referring to time line A? The one before the new time line?
That and the event that sealed their love didn't happen until a week later, so Marty had time to fix it before then. (the ripple took longer to catch up)
Does that mean shortly after the event, any mention of it was erased from time? If so does that mean two time lines merged in that very scene without any noting or indication of this ever happening?
I'm not sure but I think we are on different issues of the same context.
My issue wasn't the concept of him faking the death, Marty going back, it was that the two time lines A and B had merged, which doesn't make much sense, as Marty would be going back to time line Bs past instead of As...if not time line C.
We've been working through this issue and came up with a self correctional time theory. But it still needs work. Their are issues that were brought up about him having the note in that time line, etc...