The paradox of the future selves from BTTF2 kinda solved by the game ending...
How could 2015 Marty and Jennifer exist while their past selves had skipped forward the 30 years from 1985 to the future is a debate that has raged for decades amongst the BTTF fanbase, but I think the Game may have kinda solved it?
The game establishes, quiet literally, that there are infinite futures...with multiple future Marty's showing up...
So if there are several possible futures...I think its safe to say that in BTTF2, Marty and Jennifer somehow made it to one where they never took the trip to the future...or one which somehow took into account their return to the past...
If the former case, it still doesn't explain Old Biff remembering the Delorean...
The game establishes, quiet literally, that there are infinite futures...with multiple future Marty's showing up...
So if there are several possible futures...I think its safe to say that in BTTF2, Marty and Jennifer somehow made it to one where they never took the trip to the future...or one which somehow took into account their return to the past...
If the former case, it still doesn't explain Old Biff remembering the Delorean...
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Well I think up until now fans believed that BTTF universe didn't support "multiple/parallel universes" idea. I said this before but TTG might be shifting to that, which I hope not. Because then TP Marty would be known as a lost guy and TP Doc would be a dead man.
Actually, Doc does a diagram of the parallel universe they are in in BTTF2 in Biff Horrific timeline.
Only one a time.
When future Marty A came back he did something that created future Marty B. Future Marty A could NEVER go back to his future. That's why future Marty C says "shut up already, when I'll go back you'll be erased !" .
They just don't disappear right away because of time ripple effect.
Marty C is the "last" future version of them three. But "our" Marty will erase all of them since he already is a changed Marty. (none of those Martys witnessed 3 Martys from the future at the same time)
Also there can't be more universes created by time travel or the fading out would never take place.
They go back AFTER fixing the future, in a future timeline that considers will get back ? But then why didn't the timeline assume they already fixed whatever they tried to fix ?
Also, what happens in the year 2015 now ? Is there a new Marty and Doc coming from 85 ? Cauz Marty and Doc never left, they always went to "2015" in 85, right ? Thus in the true future of the year 1985, they should still pop up ...
But that's the point...the world changing around them is because there are no parallel universes...only one timeline that changes.
Everything in the BTTF trilogy goes vehemently against the idea of parallel or divergent timelines.
Take Marty's fading out for instance, or even the fading photographs/changing newspapers. In the parallel dimensions theory, TP Marty would travel back in time, thereby creating a new universe, the LP universe. Now, even if he prevented his parents first meeting in the LP universe, he only prevents the existence of his LP counterpart. There is no way anything he does in the past of the LP universe will affect his history in the TP universe from which he originates.
But that is not so. In the movie, it is Marty's OWN existence which is jeopardised...the photograph changes to reflect the new (potential) timeline...in the parallel dimensions theory, the photograph will remain unchanged, as a relic from another dimension.
Another very strong instance where its clear the parallel dimensions theory ISN'T at play in BTTF, is when Biff creates the 'A' timeline. Under the parallel dimensions theory, LP Old Biff would go back in time, thereby creating a new universe, the 'A' universe. He would then return to the 2015 of the new universe, but wouldn't fade away, regardless of the fate of his 'A' universe counterpart. Meanwhile, Marty, Doc and Jennifer would be stuck in LP 2015 with no time machine. So the only reason why Doc returns to a 2015 where Marty, Doc and Jennifer were present is because the timeline transformed around the latter three. They can't be erased from existence, since they're protected from the ripple effect, and they can't be shifted to another dimensions, cuz there aren't any, so they are simply grafted onto the new timeline which has replaced the previous one.
Now, it is clear that while there can only be one 'active' timeline, time traveller's and objects from other timelines can still exist within a new timeline, or have their impact on a new timeline. Consider November 12th 1955-there were four instances of the Delorean, and each of them had arrived from a different timeline-Delorean A from Twin Pines 1985, Delorean B from Lone Pine 2015, Delorean C from 1985-A, and Delorean D which had been lying buried in the Delgado Mine since Shonash 1885. Likewise, in latter part of BTTF2, in 1955, though the current 'future' is 1985-A, we still see Lone Pine Old Biff and Twin Pines Marty, though the timelines both of them originate from are rendered non-existant. We have two Marty's present, and while they are pretty much identical, they have both arrived in 1955 from different timelines.
So multiple future Marty's doesn't mean multiple timeline co-exist...
The universe can't 'assume' anything. The future they go to is the most likely future that is going occur from the moment they leave. Since it is most likely that they will return to the past, the future has them there.
That seems to be Bob Gale's view...then again, this raises the question of what the 2015 Marty we see remembers about his trip to 2015 when he was a teen
But the words "assume" and "most likely" kinda suggest the same idea here. How can a future be "most likely"? How can the continuum know for sure that they will return? So if you decide to go live in the year 2030 and never return, will you be then known as lost for 19 years by your relatives?
People say, Doc didn't have the intention of sending Einstein back so dog doesn't get to see his 1 min older self. So is this really how it is determined, think of yourself returning back and voila, you have a future of yourself?
I believe that Marty doesn't remember traveling to future because he hasn't done it. It's the original Marty who does it first.
Did they ever mention if Doc has seen his future self?
I kinda believe intentions shouldn't have anything to do with future. So I think Einstein doesn't see his 1 min future self because he was the first time traveler. Future hasn't been written back then. But when Doc went to future to get some technology, he wrote a future for everyone, which we call the "most likely". When he saw Marty's kid in trouble he instinctively thought they should help and grabbed Marty and Jenifer. Because of ripple effect thing, they managed to see that written future. But in the end of BTTF3 Doc realizes that future actually isn't written, it's what you make it.
That's what I thought too. But after a point that doesn't entirely make sense.
Look at it this way...when Doc comes back to 1985 and brings Marty and Jennifer to 2015, he is technically making a major change to history (from 2015's POV), and naturally the ripple would move forward from 1985 onwards, transforming the timeline to one where Marty and Jennifer are missing. However, we can assume that by 2015, this ripple effect still hasn't changed things, and so Marty and Jennifer can still view the previous timeline for a limited period before the ripple effect catches up with 2015 and erases their future selves.
Now that isn't entirely consistent with a previous trip to the future, namely Marty's trip back to 1985. When Marty jumps forward 30 years from 1955, he skips those 30 years and arrives in 1985. The 1985 he has arrived in has already been completely updated by the ripple effect to reflect all the changes he has made to the past (broken clocktower ledge, Lone Pine Mall, Doc's bulletproof vest, changed McFly family etc)...so why would it take the ripple effect so long to cover a 30 year period in one case, and not so long in another
But there's an issue with Marty and Jennifer in the future being the ones who went to 2015 and returned to the present...because we know that nothing has happened until it happens...in other words, the effects of a time travel trip to the past aren't seen until the trip is actually made...or more to the point, an event cannot be remembered until it actually happens. So what do future Marty and Jennifer remember about their prior trip to 2015? Does Marty remember saving Marty Jr. from Griff? Does he remember the hoverboard chase? Does he remember buying the Sport's Almanac? And what happened after that? Obviously he cannot remember stuff like Biff stealing the Delorean, 1985-A etc. the universe obviously can't just 'assume' all that! And if future Marty has some memories of his past trip, does that mean 1985 Marty has no free will, and that his actions are pre-determined, as recorded in his future selves' memory?
However, the game, which suggests the possibility of many possible futures, does seem to imply that there could have been one possible future where Marty and Jen DID return to 1985 after having some unknown adventures in 2015...
Only actual changes you do cause a ripple effect. And only if they are "fixed"
Bumping into his parents didn't make Marty vanish imidiatly, even if it meant his parents would not get together naturally.
Only if the chances of the normal timeline get reduced to being almost impossible do changes start.
And so if you travel to the future your future self stays around until you make it impossible to travel back.
(Only at that point would the ripple effect take place and the timeline changes into one were you didn't go back)
The time line doesn't care for intentions, and it's not the most likely.
The time line just is..and only a time traveler can change anything about the way the timeline goes. (And it is actually quite resistant against change...until the point when you start to mess things up)
Wasn't that one of your rules? The memories of the actions don't settle in immediately, they take a while to take effect. So the future Marty doesn't remember all the stuff that happens in the 2nd and 3rd film until a while after they've happened.
If time works the way we expect, you can go back in time and meet youreself, because that is something that has happened.
I wouldn want to have BTTF any other way, favorite movie is BTTF favorite game is Day of the tentacle. Time travel rocks hehe.
Yeah, I suppose that kinda does make sense.
Then again, does that mean that at the instant when Biff steals the Delorean, the future McFly's would vanish...after all, the Delorean being stolen DOES considerably reduce the probability of Marty and Jennifer returning to 1985 (it doesn't matter that Biff EVENTUALLY intends to return the Delorean...the timeline doesn't take every FUTURE possible decision into account...otherwise, the tombstone would have instantly faded away from the picture in BTTF3 rather than showing Clint Eastwood's tomb as the most likely future in that instant). Of course, the future McFly's would disappear anyway the moment Biff goes back, but that's another point altogether.
Your theory reminds me of one in a fanfic I'd read, where its suggested that when the past self travels to the future, the future self will be there, and will even remember travelling to the future, but he/she wouldn't remember what happened on the trip to the future because those events are still 'taking place' and haven't been completely 'written' yet...the future selves are only an extrapolation...they only become 'real' when the past selves return to the past and live out their lives to actually BECOME the future selves, in which case they will remember the trip to the future.
Oh, and 2015 Marty we see will never remember the events of the 2nd and 3rd movies...remember, he's an extrapolation of Lone Pine Marty...whereas, after BTTF3, we're in the Eastwood timeline, where Marty doesn't race Needles, so 'our' Marty grows up into a different version of 2015 Marty (i.e. Eastwood 2015 Marty), and he will naturally remember everything. 2015 LP Marty has been erased, just like 1985 TP George and Lorraine...as in the case of the latter two, only time travellers remember his existence.
Ok, so it doesn't have to be impossible to go back before they disappear, but Doc had no intention of sending him back so there wouldn't be another Einstein there.
Some time in between I guess, so it would be 'after' he steals and 'before' he returns, why?
Well, no not really, because if timetravel is real then the future you could still be there. If you travel to the future and then come home, or if its a jump between the timelines and you travel to the future in which you never timetraveled and continued to live your life
When you first travel, you haven't actually happened in the past right? That's why George wasn't a successful Sci-Fi writer by default. So it's the same with travelling into the future, they go to the future from before they even travelled there.
Solved.
I'm afraid its not quiet as easy as that.
Your completely right about George not being successful in the original timeline...BTTF doesn't work on the fixed time theory, otherwise either George would have been successful in the start of the movie (because Marty had 'already' been there) or he would have ended up unsuccessful inspite of Marty's intervention (because Marty had 'always' intervened and it didn't make a difference)...come to think of it, under a fixed time theory, the entire plot of BTTF would be impossible (to say nothing of the sequels).
However, travelling to the future is different from travelling to the past. Travelling to the past creates a new timeline, distinct from the original timeline where there was no trace of you in the past (in fact, the new timeline overwrites the original one)...travelling to the future however doesn't create a new timeline because it doesn't change what was previously set in stone; the future isn't set in stone. Travelling to the future, in essence, means that you are skipping ahead to some point in the future, and so, technically you should be 'missing' for whatever length of time you skipped until you go back and create a new timeline where you were never missing...in the case of future travel, there is no question of an 'original timeline' where you didn't travel to the future (at least, logically)...the timeline you are travelling forward along IS the original timeline...your return to the past would be the cause of a new timeline.
As for the multiple future Marties...I'm guessing he interacted with his past self at some point e.g. He went back in time to tell his other self to do something different than what he actually did...and since time travelers are somewhat immune to changes, this just created a duplicate version of the original. Like with fading out of existence, this is another mechanism to avoid creating a paradox, I guess.
I can buy your idea that time traveler's have their own 'time frame' that is set in stone...I would instead interpret is as the time traveller's having some inherent connection to their 'present time'...such that, they are only affected by the ripple effect if they are in their 'present time'...the timeline transforms around them if they are in the past or future. Of course, 'present time' itself would have to have some leeway...after all, none of the characters return to precisely the moment in the present they departed from, and even if they did, they are older than they would have been had they not time travelled at that moment so it may not be technically their 'present' to the right nanosecond...however I suppose there is a tenous connection based on how far from their point of origin are they...a difference of a few hours, or maybe even a few days, shouldn't be too much of a problem. So, Jennifer skipped around 10 hours on October 26th, yet she is still in her 'present time' which is why, being in 1985, she wasn't immune to the ripple effect when the FCB timeline came along.
This notion of a 'present time' the time traveller's are somehow intrinsically connected to could explain the existence of future selves perhaps...maybe when you leave your 'present time' to go to the future, the future you see will assume that you returned to your present time...then again, this is just my perception and nothing in the trilogy indicates you are 'pre-destined' to return to your present time.