Why episode 6 is my least favorite episode this season
(THIS ENTIRE POST IS A SPOILER)
Hi,
Sorry for spoiling the fun, but I just wanted to point out the reasons that made me like this episode a bit less than the rest:
1) I didn't like being able to USE max as a hint system. This is because (a) I think it's weird to be able to ask Max "Can you give me a hint?" - makes you feel like you're playing a game. It made me feel like Max wasn't really another character but rather just an object meant to give you hints (by the way, this also disturbed me in CSI). (b) I'm a very weak person, and when there's a hint system around, I wound up using it and hating myself afterwards.
Also, I liked the fact that Max had different dialog options based on the location, and it's too bad he stopped having those.
2) I think some of the puzzles this time were a bit unfair (i.e, I was stuck a few times, and when I accidently solved the puzzle I didn't bang my head and said - how didn't I think of that!?)
Specifically:
I) the antenna has been there forever and there was no reason to suspect we could take it this time.
II) There was nothing that hinted that we should make Leonard throw up. When Sam used the throwing up thingy on most characters, he just said "I don't want to see him throw up", and there was just no reason to suspect Leonard had that deed inside him (unless I missed something)
3) Just a tiny grump - in this episode, for some reason, I got kinda annoyed with getting stuck into Max while walking (the wheeeee thing). Last episodes it was cute, but this time for some reason Max just kept getting in my way all the time.
Just wanted to comment that despite those three things, the episode was still pretty good, and the fact that it's my least favorite just goes to show how great this season was
Hi,
Sorry for spoiling the fun, but I just wanted to point out the reasons that made me like this episode a bit less than the rest:
1) I didn't like being able to USE max as a hint system. This is because (a) I think it's weird to be able to ask Max "Can you give me a hint?" - makes you feel like you're playing a game. It made me feel like Max wasn't really another character but rather just an object meant to give you hints (by the way, this also disturbed me in CSI). (b) I'm a very weak person, and when there's a hint system around, I wound up using it and hating myself afterwards.
Also, I liked the fact that Max had different dialog options based on the location, and it's too bad he stopped having those.
2) I think some of the puzzles this time were a bit unfair (i.e, I was stuck a few times, and when I accidently solved the puzzle I didn't bang my head and said - how didn't I think of that!?)
Specifically:
I) the antenna has been there forever and there was no reason to suspect we could take it this time.
II) There was nothing that hinted that we should make Leonard throw up. When Sam used the throwing up thingy on most characters, he just said "I don't want to see him throw up", and there was just no reason to suspect Leonard had that deed inside him (unless I missed something)
3) Just a tiny grump - in this episode, for some reason, I got kinda annoyed with getting stuck into Max while walking (the wheeeee thing). Last episodes it was cute, but this time for some reason Max just kept getting in my way all the time.
Just wanted to comment that despite those three things, the episode was still pretty good, and the fact that it's my least favorite just goes to show how great this season was
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Also, if you click on Leonard, Sam asks if Max has been feeding Leonard, and Max said he has, and most recently fed him the deed to the USA. I think that dialog only plays a couple times, though.
Weird, I haven't heard that ine... maybe it only plays before Max gets separated? When I clicked Leonard, Sam asked Max if he has been feeding Leonard, and max just replied "Yes"...
Actually, I knew I was looking for the money, and I had a feeling I had to get it out of the cash register on the moon, so I spent most of the time around there trying to draw my gun on the moleman
I got stuck on the antenna and lunar lander leg cutting.
I have to say, I'm pretty sure one of the episodes had you take the antenna. Also, the lander door clearly had a little knob/pull thing, an open window, and said "the keys are stuck inside" when you try to open it. Kind of obvious.
The deed thing was very clear. "I fed him the deed to the united states." Then you get something that makes people throw up. I walked around trying to get everyone to throw up =p
The only thing I felt was really hard to figure out was the lunar lander. I'm supposed to cut a metal leg a regular saw? Kind of weird.
- The game seems to eat up memory. After a few hours of playing the process was eating 550mb of memory. That's all fine and dandy if it really needs it, but to me that looked like a memory leak. (didn't bother to debug it though; I get to do that enough at work)
- When you're doing an action (like clicking something so Sam starts walking) and Max gets in the way (and gets thrown away), the action is cancelled. This happened dozens of times and was a bit irritating. Especially as the inventory times a while to get open, find the item, then find the place to click it to.
- For some reason , on my laptop, when alt-tabbing and then coming back, the framerate gets jerky (like 15 frames smooth, then a 3 frame skip, repeat). The only way to fix this was to save, quit and restart.
- Minor thing, but was the autosave tuned to happen less frequently? I actually became used to the camera sound once I entered the streets.
- Minor, but I found Max getting in the way of an object (like I've found an intresting object in the room and go pick up an inventory item to try it on, then Max walks to the front just in time and I misclick).
- (every episode) I'm missing the double click feature of some adventure games so the characters would run faster (or teleport, but the running would be better). Since adventure games consist mostly of moving and clicking, and the moving isn't that exciting, this would be a welcome addition.
(and I had problems
Most of these are small functional issues and not game killers. But it's the polish that makes it..
silly me, and I thought it was the americans who makes it
About Leonard - Max stops saying the thing about the deed after he's been separated. We realized it too late to fix it.
The "use a hint" option didn't bother me, though I notice it was less subtle in previous games; it was always there, but in this ep, it was direct and not covered up with something like: "Max, what do you think about...."
Originally, I thought there was some telekinesis artifact that lets you open the door from the outside.
I was just bugged about the bug of trying to read the sign next to the lunar lander. I kept reclickin the damn thing, hoping Sam would read it.
Overall, I thought the game ending was anit-climatic, mainly in the motivating of Bliss. I expected a better explanation of his schemes.
And I also enjoyed when you had different dialogs at specific location, instead of that random stuff. But I guess that you can’t please everyone…
Other than that, great episode guys!
I miss those too, but at least it makes it less stressful for me to click on the damn rabbit to hear something new in every new location.
If you mean the Bone way, then no.. As on the Cow race, I was stuck for a long time and was desperate for a hint system. Of course, the game DOES have a hint system but I had disabled it because I hated the way the game nagged me on and on for every single thing. Like when I see a new action icon, I get a full screen interruption explaining what the eye icon might possibly mean (which, after playing the 1st through, was obvious).
Also I don't like the fact the game is less of a game because I choose so. Since even the "I need a hint" things gave entertaining answers, I found myself unable NOT to click on them (and for the same reason I would not be able to disable it). I think what you really need, is a rewording. It's the "I need a hint" phrase that turns most people off. They feel inferior clicking such a link (as it "hints" to the player that they are not able to solve it without the help of the game). So some more subtle ways of saying the same thing would work a little bit better. Some suggestion have already been presented here in the forums, such as "Hey, are we stuck or what?" or some other ways like asking for Maxs observations about something (this would be an intresting mechanic in itself, as everyone is intrested in Maxs opinions about stuff, and if some of them happen to be of the helping kind, I don't think people would mind so much).
The hint thing, I prefered the old way of doing it with sam whining about not being able to do something.. it was a little more subtle I feel.. but that's about my only problem.
(especially superball.)
excellent episode though
Anywho, I think the hint system worked well enough. While I always waited until after I figured out the puzzle on my own to use it, I thought the way Max responded was most of the time clever and appropriate. However, I am not sure if this is the type of hint system I want in future games.
This was the one thing that foxed me
Didn't have a problem with this and it was one of the times when I actually did pat myself on the back for overcoming the obstacle
I noticed this too. I think the other contributor to this thread is right when they say that Sam is stopped in his tracks when usually he would have carried on walking to his destination.
I liked it too. Especially the different persona's of Max
Didn't have a problem with this. After 3 rounds of torture I kind of guessed sabotage was the way forward
Still, though, it's a little beside the point. The puzzle wasn't really to get the deed. It was to get Max' tail back. It's not immediately obvious, but you can put 2 and 2 together and deduce that you need the earthquake device to shift blue Max. Then you need a 100 trillion dollars to buy it. There was (as far as I could see) absolutely no clue given how to get that kind of money. Even if you saw the line about the deed, why would you think someone would pay you 100 trillion dollars for it? Why would Sybil have that kind of money as the "queen of Canada"? Sure, you can stumble upon the individual elements and find yourself solving the puzzle in the end, but "deducing" the solutions seemed much difficult in this episode than any of the others.
And I do like Max' hint system, but it felt like they were required listening to solve the puzzles this time rather than optional advice.
That this was happening to people was something we learned from this forum -- which I take as evidence that the whole feedback-from-the-audience process works. But judging by this thread the solution is not perfect, so we'll continue to refine in the future. It's a particularly thorny problem, one of those ones where different people prefer very different approaches and we have to try to come down somewhere where we please as many as possible. Sort of like... well, like most problems, really.
Oh, yeah, never really thought about that one Dave. I suppose people could accidently get a hint if they didn't want one.
That's where polls come in.
I realized that was it. Maybe you can put an option (in the "options" menu) like "Should Max's hints be clearly stated?". If it's checked - you'd get the "I need a hint" line (still, maybe rephrased a bit to feel less like Sam is playing a computer game) and if it's unchecked - the same hints would be dispensed in Max's lines in a room-dependent way as in the previous games.
Personally, I really liked the way the hints were placed in last games. I didn't even think of them as hints, because they were usually very subtle - more like the kind of help you'd expect to have from your partner while working on the case.
In addition, you could use shift+click (or Control+click) to get Max Hints (regardless of the setting)
I know my suggestion seems to take us back to square one and the whole point was making the whole " max as a hint system" thing obvious. Forget it.
I love Emily's suggestion of turning the hint system on or off
Maybe the phrase could be improved...should be obvious without sounding artificial.
But i also don't have a problem with the current one.
But as for this antenna everyone mentions... how can you not have thought of it? I mean I dont want to sound like im saying anyone is stupid but as soon as I saw the car like door and the lock i knew what to go grab... anyone thats ever locked their keys in a car knows what to grab lol.
I also miss the mouse pointer being a finger or something other than a mouse cursor.. maybe give us some options there. Also ive sent tons of ideas in email to you guys at telltale.. dont know if it even got there lol.
All and all this new revised sam and max is awesome. It does lack some of the luster of the old but brings about some new changes and change is good.. sometimes. I hope to see many new features and changes in the second season, maybe open up a new forum for season 2 suggestions on minigames or other ideas and such.
Keep rockin telltale.
Adventure gamer since Zork 1
P.S. you could make an entire mini game out of the half text based sam and max adventure :P
A popup book would also be cool!
The main character said something like "I hope I can still use the mouse button to move things..."
Not since Resident Evil's "You are truly the master of unlocking" have I laughed so hard at a horror game.
I'll suggest that we've run into one of the "thorny issues" connected to the episodic format: Repetitive locations/characters/objects. I think someone mentioned that in Abe Lincoln Must Die, the posters in the alley were actually needed to solve one of the puzzles, whereas they'd just been fun clutter before. Similarly, I overlooked the antenna during Bright Side of the Moon until I went "pixel hunting", and I also didn't get the "deed" thing. I mean, I've been through the office in five episodes and not once has the closet-of-souvenirs yielded anything but giggles.
I'm not saying I want less giggles - just saying that after a few episodes, they sort of slide off the radar as far as puzzle solving goes.
As for what to do about it... Well, either stop using repetitive locations as places to hide important clues or objects after the first episode or two (although the characters are still game, of course), or make them more obvious when you enter said location. Or just carry on as per usual - I've been really really impressed with Season 1 and my suggestions should be taken purely as a way to add more awesome to something that is already, uhm, you know, awesome.
Oh! And I'd like a "Max" button next to the inventory box - chasing my little lagomorph buddy across the screen because he wouldn't hold still got a little frustrating at times
Also, after Max's hint that
I think the guy in this spoiler-free walkthrough said it best, http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/939029/48139
Ok, and for some laughs, but just a few funny dialogs get old pretty fast. The fun is to have something new to talk about as you make progress. And it adds greatly to the immersion into the game.
Maybe the best way would be to have an option to turn these subtle hints on or off. So if they are turned on, it will be like in Episode 1-5. If they are turned off, you are left with some funny lines and come back for the funny subtle hints when you replay the game?
I only got stuck at the end by the way. Maybe it's also because I get bored soon when the same few things happen in a neverending circle, and you have to do the right thing at the right time, but whenever you try the wrong thing the circle will go on and on and you have to wait until you are back at the place where you had an idea to try something ... I hate those parts
Anyway, after using
Apart from that, I liked the last episode. It was nice to see most charakters again.
The only thing that bugs me is, that you
Anyway, when and where can I preoder Season 2 ??
Well, the Dakotas probably don't have a very effective war machine. They probably just threw some water balloons at one another and called it a day.
I, too, was a bit sad that Max Hints weren't available at the only time I really got stuck:
Well, to me at least, the greatest achievement throughout most of the season (except episode 3, 1 puzzle from episode 5 and , unfortunately a big chunk of episode 6) is that all the puzzle flowed from the way the character behaved.Solving puzzle was very exciting and rewarding because the only thing required was to act as Sam. In this respect, I was only consulting Max when I was stuck because Sam's reasoning didn't seem to fit the situation and Max's was. Thus, to me, there was no such thing as a 'hint system', only puzzles that were designed to be solely solved by Sam and other that were cooperative and required to also tap into Max weird bent mind... And the 'I need a hint' broke that kind of 'organic' system.
Maybe the solution is to adapt Max tree of dialog corresponding to what puzzle are solved, which are one are still underway and which one are yet to be seen by the player... so it doesn't spoil what doesn't need to be. Either way I liked the previous one better because it was so invisible. If you're going to use an explicit hint option - and I wouldn't like it - just put it outside of the game universe like in Bones, it was a good solution.
Anyway, episode 6 was a real rollercoaster from me : there were an equal amount of pure genious and of what I though were boring mechanical puzzles that were far too reminiscent from the time when puzzle were just there to slow down the player in unfolding the story.
Some of the puzzles and solution were far too coincidental or separated from the main arc to get me really involved. Plus from time to time, there were weird false clue like the close up on the 'never-ending' battery from the Mole mecha-suit that however didn't fit anywhere in the game. I'm still evaluating if the opening sequence is very good or very bad : it was quite obvious who would be the villain and the way Sam comes to realize this is indeed very funny... but it felt more rush than planned like 'There's only one episode left, how are we going to make Sam and Max realize that they
Lots of stuff were really fun though : the new Bosco, the 3 Maxs (even though it felt a bit underused and there were discrepancies in the Max dialogs in this phase), the transformed Hugh Bliss from the last act (great, GREAT animation), the rat/pucking puzzle, Abe's romance and telephone puzzle, Canada's joke, tick tack doom, the returning characters, the end credits... and like previous episodes the dialogs, the acting and the stellar music.
What felt weird afterwards though is how big the emphasis on Max is; it's a bit like Sam has become his sidekick.
All in all, a very good season with some undeniable lows but very high highs. I hope you guys will try to find yet another angle at the episodic format for season 2. Sorry for the long post, but I thought this thread turned into a 'Let's give our two cents on Bright Side of the Moon", so I figured I'd join.