Ep2: Too much railroading at the Dairy. *SPOILERS*
It seemed odd to me that I was forced to break into the back of the barn, even when the older brother told me not to, and Lilly told me not to (quite reasonably I might add).
Ultimately breaking into the back room did not even seem to matter or be necessary to advance the story. Yes I noticed the bear traps and connected them to the bear trap in the first scene, but this only proves that the brothers are bloodthirsty about protecting their land. It didn't prove that they were going to hurt Lee's group.
The brother didn't show any 'tells' that made it obvious he was lying about hunting deer and the like, so I got the sense of a reasonable excuse for the blood and all.
It seemed inconclusive enough that I even went ahead and tried to wash my hands during the dinner scene, like they told me to. Turned out the sink was utterly non-interactable so of course I had no choice but to go upstairs.
Obviously Lee had to go upstairs or the story would have verged a lot, but there could have been a better trail to follow if you're trying to play as reasonably trusting and non-paranoid. Maybe he could have found a severed toe in the sink or something, I don't know.
In short, 1) the fact that you MUST break into the back of the barn to proceed, and 2) It being impossible for Lee to wash his hands like everything's normal, just didn't make sense to me in the context of what was happening, and made me feel that the plot was railroading.
In a typical adventure game, that's not such a huge deal, though they could still do better in terms of building proper motivation. In terms of motivation, it would have made more sense to reduce the resistance to breaking into the barn (Lilly shouldn't explicitly tell you NOT to do it, or at least not sound so correct when she does so), and the back room should have been MUCH more conclusive of SOMETHING fishy so that Lee had a reason to suspect them at the dinner and snoop around upstairs.
The way it played out, Lee was just being way too paranoid. Yeah, he was RIGHT, obviously, but it wasn't clear that he was doing the right thing, at all, in the run-up to it. If they'd turned out to be innocent, like he'd walked up there and found Mark recovering on the bed, and he'd been caught, he could have ruined things for the whole group.
It was just a bad example of the game 'tailoring to how you play'. It's an instance of being able to say what you like (I tried as hard as I could tell Kenny I wasn't going to break in, and I asked the brother point-blank what was back there), but being forced to do what the plot demands regardless of logic.
Ultimately breaking into the back room did not even seem to matter or be necessary to advance the story. Yes I noticed the bear traps and connected them to the bear trap in the first scene, but this only proves that the brothers are bloodthirsty about protecting their land. It didn't prove that they were going to hurt Lee's group.
The brother didn't show any 'tells' that made it obvious he was lying about hunting deer and the like, so I got the sense of a reasonable excuse for the blood and all.
It seemed inconclusive enough that I even went ahead and tried to wash my hands during the dinner scene, like they told me to. Turned out the sink was utterly non-interactable so of course I had no choice but to go upstairs.
Obviously Lee had to go upstairs or the story would have verged a lot, but there could have been a better trail to follow if you're trying to play as reasonably trusting and non-paranoid. Maybe he could have found a severed toe in the sink or something, I don't know.
In short, 1) the fact that you MUST break into the back of the barn to proceed, and 2) It being impossible for Lee to wash his hands like everything's normal, just didn't make sense to me in the context of what was happening, and made me feel that the plot was railroading.
In a typical adventure game, that's not such a huge deal, though they could still do better in terms of building proper motivation. In terms of motivation, it would have made more sense to reduce the resistance to breaking into the barn (Lilly shouldn't explicitly tell you NOT to do it, or at least not sound so correct when she does so), and the back room should have been MUCH more conclusive of SOMETHING fishy so that Lee had a reason to suspect them at the dinner and snoop around upstairs.
The way it played out, Lee was just being way too paranoid. Yeah, he was RIGHT, obviously, but it wasn't clear that he was doing the right thing, at all, in the run-up to it. If they'd turned out to be innocent, like he'd walked up there and found Mark recovering on the bed, and he'd been caught, he could have ruined things for the whole group.
It was just a bad example of the game 'tailoring to how you play'. It's an instance of being able to say what you like (I tried as hard as I could tell Kenny I wasn't going to break in, and I asked the brother point-blank what was back there), but being forced to do what the plot demands regardless of logic.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
If you payed attention Jolene actually alludes to possibilities of cannibalism, combine this with the secrecy of the back room and (If you bother to explore the stalls before unscrewing the door) the giant wheelbarrow full of bloody clothing and medical equipment should have been a give away to exploring the back room.
You can walk to the restroom like you said you were going to and try to walk back into the dining room. When you do you hear a very pathetic "help me" that sounds slightly muffled (as though by distance) in Marks voice. I can tell you this, in real life while in the home of strangers who won't let me take a peek at my recovering friend, I would investigate upon hearing that.
I just wanted to get dinner and go, or hell, just go. It might have been more terrifying if we'd been presented the 'chance' to leave, but were then forced to stay.
So I tried (in vain) everything to advance the plot without breaking into the barn.
However, I did go to wash my hands before dinner-- but I also broke off to find Mark, because by that point, I was horrified that he was a goner. My concern for Mark, triumphed over my earlier curiosity.
I can see everything that you're saying OP, and definitely felt your frustration about the barn. It wasn't game breaking for me in the slightest, but I did feel that breaking into the barn should have been a moral choice in a game about moral choices.
That combined with the fact that we'd only known the St John's group for less than a day, I was much more apt to trust Kenny when he said there was something sinister in the barn.
yup lee still returns to the house to 'have dinner' so other than giving some points towards kenny which ultimately did nothing to change his views.
the voice actors and character models where kind of a stereo type of a farming family imo and they choice of words..
i'm still freaked out by ep2...
I was very disappointed that I couldn't ignore Mark though, nor wash my hands and continue on with dinner. I think they should've let you eat dinner if you weren't a victim of your own curiosity :P
Where Episode 2 really suffers in my view is the relationship system with characters basically being binary, as in two-dimensional. You save Duck's life atleast once, gave him food twice, and generally support Kenny except at the point when it comes to crushing a guy's head like a watermelon in front of his daughter? Oh, then you're a worthless piece of garbage.
Also I chose "no" for going to Dairy for the simple reason that I didn't trust the brothers to sit the right way on a toilet seat the instant I saw them. Danny's face in particular fit the "excessive evil eyeshadow" trope:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExcessiveEvilEyeshadow
Then of course there's all their questions about how many people are in your group, security questions, etc. it was blatant they were fishing for information that was none of their business and went beyond simply trying to be friendly or make idle conversation. About the only way they could've been more obvious that they were eventually going to try and screw Lee and his group is if they asked where the spare keys to the Motel were in case you happened to accidentally lock yourself outside.
Of course, things turned out quite the other way around, but you didn't really knew at that point. Telltale could have easily been trying to mislead us players into thinking the worst of the St. Johns and ruining their life with our paranoia (e.g. by sabotaging the fence, which WE ACTUALLY DO IN THE GAME)... and in the end they turn out to be just friendly folks living on a dairy, genuinely trying to help other survivors.
But again, things turned out different and the St. Johns were just as untrustworthy as expected. Still, you don't really know until you find out for sure.
That actually would have been pretty awesome. Not that Episode 2 wasn't great the way it was - it WAS great. But that would be a good plot twist.
That would've been a good plot twist. Who would think that they were just normal folk after their creepy suspicious behavior?
Like why did they lock the barn door when the rest of the group showed up? Because kids came to visit and there are dangerous tools in there and they could get hurt.
if i had a friend who was just shot in the shoulder with an arrow; pretty sure they'd tell me if he was alright or not. i shouldn't have to go fishing for answers.