Larry - I don't get it.

edited July 2012 in The Walking Dead
I know the guy's really mean and stuff, but you find out he's really only trying to protect his daughter- I helped him get his pills in episode 1, AND I sided with him because after playing EP2 I got sick of Kenny and decided to play the "Fuck kenny." playthrough. He actually acts positive towards me (Larry) when I side with him. I really wish Telltale would've made Kenny be the one to knock me out, or me get hit by the door or something. Anything else. Larry knocking me out just didn't make sense. Why not Kenny? He's the one who was an asshole to him. It might stand to reason that because Kenny has the car, Larry would want to keep him alive, but why not take his keys and leave him and his family and bring Lee instead? Less people to take care of as well.

I'm not angry, I'm just a bit confused. "Larry's an asshole." is not an adequate reason for him to knock me out and leave me for dead. I'm guessing TellTale were either in a hurry, or simply forgot to change that scene up a bit.

Comments

  • edited July 2012
    Larry knocks you out because he knows you're a murderer, or at least believes that you are and thinks you're an honest to God threat against his daughter and Clementine. Even if it isn't true I see his point of view in that moment, even if punching Lee in the face to leave him for dead is an extreme choice to make. I didn't like Larry very much but I could see where he was coming from with everything, including punching Lee even if I don't think it was a smart or rational thing to do.
  • edited July 2012
    I think Larry (and sometimes by extension, Lily) are the example of people who have given up a lot of their moral integrity to give themselves (and themselves, only) a higher chance for survival. They don't value children, or help people who need help outside of each other (naturally we see Lily deviate from this if Lee tries to help her save her dad, but she's going to need help and support from someone once her Dad is dead).
  • edited July 2012
    I actually agree with what Lily and Larry do for the most part, because they are looking at it from a survival perspective. Not a chummy friend perspective. Thanks for the replies, makes sense now.
  • edited July 2012
    I actually agree with what Lily and Larry do for the most part, because they are looking at it from a survival perspective. Not a chummy friend perspective. Thanks for the replies, makes sense now.

    The collective makeup of their actions only makes sense if the goal is to survive past the zombie apocalypse and then rebuild. All of this changes when you learn that, short of having you brains scrambled, you will always come back as a Walker when you die.

    I don't think that I could ever completely agree with anyone that won't put the safety of children ahead of their own.
  • edited July 2012
    I think Larry (and sometimes by extension, Lily) are the example of people who have given up a lot of their moral integrity to give themselves (and themselves, only) a higher chance for survival. They don't value children, or help people who need help outside of each other

    I could say the same thing about Kenny. If you don't side with him, he isn't even willing to give away his position to help while you're wrestling with the gun-wielding brother. Not to mention the *cough* salt lick incident.

    Playing that way, it's pretty clear that Ken only grows a backbone when his own family is in danger, I wouldn't really expect help from him when the chips are down any more than I'd expect from Larry.
  • edited July 2012
    Gennadios wrote: »
    I could say the same thing about Kenny. If you don't side with him, he isn't even willing to give away his position to help while you're wrestling with the gun-wielding brother. Not to mention the *cough* salt lick incident.

    Playing that way, it's pretty clear that Ken only grows a backbone when his own family is in danger, I wouldn't really expect help from him when the chips are down any more than I'd expect from Larry.

    And I don't see it that way. Kenny doesn't always play the hero, but he does what he can to help people in need out (without risking his family). He comes back to rescue Lee in the drug store, he doesn't refuse to keep the student you find in the woods, and I think that killing Larry had more to do with keeping the group within the meat locker safe (as opposed to some selfish desire to protect his family, who is not even in the meat locker at the time).

    Contrast that with Larry, who won't accept new people into the group, tries to kill the person who is responsible for getting him his life-saving medication, and instead of informing people that Lee is a murderer, decides to use it as blackmail to make sure that Lee will always side with him and his daughter. Then there is Lily, who always deigns to her father's wishes (despite them often being wrong, or morally repugnant), and despite being in no danger, refuses to save lee when he is about to be forced upon an electric fence.

    At least we can say for Kenny that he wasn't going to put his life in jeopardy to save someone who has no regard for his safety. Lily acts in the end out of vengeance, as opposed to common sense.
  • edited July 2012
    While I agree Larry is pretty much a jerk, I don't care for Kenny's attitude towards the end either. Just because I want to make sure this guy's dead before we kill him (He could've held the salt lick above his head until we were sure..Wouldn't have been a problem.) I become the enemy in his eyes. Larry actually is just about to start breathing when Kenny kills him, so that's something to think about.
  • edited July 2012
    Kenny never gave me attitude, because I ended up siding with him (after pausing to give Lily enough time to convince me she could save him, which she didn't).

    Besides, I know enough about heart attacks and CPR to know that just because someone takes a momentary gasp, it's not enough to prove that resuscitation was sucessful, and that 24 hours after a heart attack you are most likely to have a second one (usually fatal). It might have been better to just let him go and eliminate the threat of him turning into a walker while you're in a position to not risk yourself to further harm, as opposed to waiting too long and he comes back as a danger to everyone, Lily included.
  • edited July 2012
    Contrast that with Larry, who won't accept new people into the group, tries to kill the person who is responsible for getting him his life-saving medication, and instead of informing people that Lee is a murderer, decides to use it as blackmail to make sure that Lee will always side with him and his daughter. Then there is Lily, who always deigns to her father's wishes (despite them often being wrong, or morally repugnant), and despite being in no danger, refuses to save lee when he is about to be forced upon an electric fence.

    If you side with Lily's she's actually the one that saves you, from both brothers.

    Problem with Kenny is that he's an idealist but doesn't really have the backbone to follow things through. He wanted to save the new kid, now what? Get the trailer running. And it's not like he was planning to bring everyone with him, just Lee and Clem, IF he likes them.

    He'll just do the um "moral" thing and then cast of the people he saved into the wind when it becomes inconvenient. At least Larry and Lily are more up front about not being in a position to care for new survivors.

    As Bali put it, Larry may be an asshole but he's still got the protection instinct.
  • edited July 2012
    Gennadios wrote: »
    If you side with Lily's she's actually the one that saves you, from both brothers.

    Problem with Kenny is that he's an idealist but doesn't really have the backbone to follow things through. He wanted to save the new kid, now what? Get the trailer running. And it's not like he was planning to bring everyone with him, just Lee and Clem, IF he likes them.

    He'll just do the um "moral" thing and then cast of the people he saved into the wind when it becomes inconvenient. At least Larry and Lily are more up front about not being in a position to care for new survivors.

    As Bali put it, Larry may be an asshole but he's still got the protection instinct.

    I still don't see where people are thinking that Larry wants to "protect" people (well, other than himself and Lily).

    Example? When Lily gave me the food, I fed the three kids (I count the student as a kid), and then gave food to Lily. Larry then proceeded to chew me out that I didn't feed him. Who the heck is he trying to protect there?

    Again, when we are trapped in the meat locker, Kenny and I are looking for a way out (and Kenny is obviously panicked, and rightly so because they split him up from both this wife and kid). Larry screams himself to death (literally), and Lily just tries to calm him down. Yeah, they were sure concerned with protecting the group right there.

    And like I said in another thread, even if I can't trust Kenny with my life, I know that if anything happened to me, that he and Katjaa would take better care of Clementine than Lily would - as evidenced by the fact that she wouldn't even step out of the drugstore to help save her.
  • edited July 2012
    Also, as an afterthought, why would he be trying to get the motor home running when his truck already works, unless he was trying to save more people than just himself and his family?

    I think it's obvious from the conversations with him and Lily that he wants to move the entire group, but it is Lily who is resisting leaving the Motor Inn, despite the fact that they are going to starve to death if they stay there.
  • edited July 2012
    Also, as an afterthought, why would he be trying to get the motor home running when his truck already works, unless he was trying to save more people than just himself and his family?
    Maybe because the motor home is transportation and a place to sleep.
  • edited July 2012
    I don't think so. If you talk to Mark and Lily, it's obvious that Kenny wants the group to leave the Motor Inn, but Lily wants to stay. Working on the Motor home is an extension of wanting to leave, and I'm sure he would take everyone with him who was willing to go (well, maybe not Lily and Larry).
  • edited July 2012
    I don't think so. If you talk to Mark and Lily, it's obvious that Kenny wants the group to leave the Motor Inn, but Lily wants to stay. Working on the Motor home is an extension of wanting to leave, and I'm sure he would take everyone with him who was willing to go (well, maybe not Lily and Larry).

    He doesn't want Lee to go if he doesn't like him.
  • edited July 2012
    trd84 wrote: »
    He doesn't want Lee to go if he doesn't like him.

    And you can directly influence that by your decisions. In my ending he treats Lee more like a good friend than anything else.

    I don't think he would purposefully leave behind any people that he had under his leadership without good reason (such as Doug/Carly, or the poor student you manage to save that has no one else). He wouldn't force them to go, but he wouldn't leave them behind either.

    I mean, it's pretty telling of Lily's character when she flat out tells that Lee that she doesn't want that poor Band Kid to stay ( I should really learn his name, shouldn't I?). He is all alone, the Director is sure to die without our intervention, but she wants them to leave immediately. He would be left all by himself, and he's barely old enough to be considered a full adult.
  • edited July 2012
    And you can directly influence that by your decisions. In my ending he treats Lee more like a good friend than anything else.

    I don't think he would purposefully leave behind any people that he had under his leadership without good reason (such as Doug/Carly, or the poor student you manage to save that has no one else). He wouldn't force them to go, but he wouldn't leave them behind either.

    I mean, it's pretty telling of Lily's character when she flat out tells that Lee that she doesn't want that poor Band Kid to stay ( I should really learn his name, shouldn't I?). He is all alone, the Director is sure to die without our intervention, but she wants them to leave immediately. He would be left all by himself, and he's barely old enough to be considered a full adult.

    So in one of my play throughs he wouldn't want larry, Lily, Lee, to go. Clementine wouldn't go without Lee. Would Carl/Doug go?

    I'm not sure he would want the Lee from my first play through go, that had his back 100% and saved his family in the 2nd episode, just because I wouldn't bash a guys head in who might have still been alive.
  • edited July 2012
    trd84 wrote: »
    So in one of my play throughs he wouldn't want larry, Lily, Lee, to go. Clementine wouldn't go without Lee. Would Carl/Doug go?

    I'm not sure he would want the Lee from my first play through go, that had his back 100% and saved his family in the 2nd episode, just because I wouldn't bash a guys head in who might have still been alive.

    Like I said, he would take anyone who wanted to go unless he had a good reason.

    When you try to save Larry, you prove to Kenny that you are willing to put your morals over the direct safety of the group (it's up to you to decide if in this manner if he was right or wrong, but this is how he's chosen to interpret it). He did what he thought was necessary to protect the group (no worse than Larry and Lily, who wanted to bash Duck's brains in before they were reasonably certain that he had been bitten, and that decision was made more brashly than Kenny's decision to terminate your resuscitation attempts).

    Couple that with the fact that you have all just had a trying experience, and left not one but two members of your group behind dead at a place you thought was safe, and tensions are bound to run high. Also, he was just shot - he may not be thinking rationally after such an emotionally charged situation. He may be angry with you now, but give him time to cool down before we suddenly decide that he's had a total character shift and that we need to abandon him as quickly as possible.
  • edited July 2012
    I'm not angry, I'm just a bit confused. "Larry's an asshole." is not an adequate reason for him to knock me out and leave me for dead. I'm guessing TellTale were either in a hurry, or simply forgot to change that scene up a bit.

    I get where you're coming from, but his actions make perfect sense to me. When you side with Larry in the drug store he finds you agreeable on a shallow level. But later on he betrays you for deeper convictions he holds about the nature of your character.

    He's doing what he thinks is best for Lilly and the rest of the group and doesn't mind being a bit of a cunt about it either. :)
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited July 2012
    what i find weird is that the picture of clems family shows what looks like a 40 year old black man and a 50 year old asian woman but clems moms voice sounds like a young woman like carleys age about. irrelevant to larry but i just noticed it today
  • edited July 2012
    Clem's mom? Do you mean from the phone messages in ep. 1?
  • edited July 2012
    I don't think so. If you talk to Mark and Lily, it's obvious that Kenny wants the group to leave the Motor Inn, but Lily wants to stay. Working on the Motor home is an extension of wanting to leave, and I'm sure he would take everyone with him who was willing to go (well, maybe not Lily and Larry).
    Yeah I thought Kenny would have been willing to take anyone with him that wanted to leave the motor in aswell until he refused to take me with him. Even though I didn't ask to go with him he told me that I couldn't come because I had put his son in danger twice in episode one which was bollocks because I threatened to fight Larry if he touched Duck when he thought he was bitten.

    Kenny is an ungrateful prick. In episode 2 I fed his kid,fed him, saved his wife from zombified Travis and he still resented me for not saving Duck at the farm in episode one and continued to clash with me throughout the rest of episode 2. Come to think of it he even shook his head in disapproval of my choices after I fed him when he said some people won't agree with my food rationing choices and I don't recall him thanking me for feeding his kid.
  • edited July 2012
    I might have missed it, but what can you change with your interaction with Larry on a "Fuck Kenny" playthrough? He's more agreeable, but still punches you in the end - right?

    It'd be nice if instead of punching you, he'd just lock the door on a playthough with a higher Larry-Favor. Does anything else seem to change? The meat locker discussion?
  • edited July 2012
    Also, as an afterthought, why would he be trying to get the motor home running when his truck already works, unless he was trying to save more people than just himself and his family?

    I think it's obvious from the conversations with him and Lily that he wants to move the entire group, but it is Lily who is resisting leaving the Motor Inn, despite the fact that they are going to starve to death if they stay there.
    Yeah his truck already works but I think he wanted to fix up the RV as a travelling home like Dale in the comics and tv show. I think he only initially intended to take his family. Everyone else has to pretty much earn a place in "his" RV like a reward for loyalty to his family. When you don't side with Kenny he sulks, has a hissy fit and refuses to take you with him. I told him the word was out that he was planning to leave once he fixed up the RV he said to me in response that I couldn't come with him because I put his son in danger to many times. All I had done was suggested reasoning with Larry and Lilly when he asked my opinion in the drug store and I attempted to save Sean first. Through out episode 1 and the beginning of 2 I showed concern for his family.
  • edited July 2012
    I might have missed it, but what can you change with your interaction with Larry on a "Fuck Kenny" playthrough? He's more agreeable, but still punches you in the end - right?

    It'd be nice if instead of punching you, he'd just lock the door on a playthough with a higher Larry-Favor. Does anything else seem to change? The meat locker discussion?

    Nothing really changes - he pisses on Carley for shooting her gun, then has his heart attack. Lily is a bit softer with you, but he still knocks you out as you are trying to escape, and then calls you out at the Motor Inn and threatens you.
  • edited July 2012
    dee23 wrote: »
    Yeah his truck already works but I think he wanted to fix up the RV as a travelling home like Dale in the comics and tv show. I think he only initially intended to take his family. Everyone else has to pretty much earn a place in "his" RV like a reward for loyalty to his family. When you don't side with Kenny he sulks, has a hissy fit and refuses to take you with him. I told him the word was out that he was planning to leave once he fixed up the RV he said to me in response that I couldn't come with him because I put his son in danger to many times. All I had done was suggested reasoning with Larry and Lilly when he asked my opinion in the drug store and I attempted to save Sean first. Through out episode 1 and the beginning of 2 I showed concern for his family.

    I think his intention was "I'm leaving no matter what you people say", which is a heck of a lot different from "I'm leaving and I'm not taking anyone but my family with me!". Besides, if you try to save Duck and side with Kenny at the drug store, and then feed the children at the Motor Inn, he practically BEGS you to leave with him (this is before you even meet the St. John's - he makes a point of approaching you). I don't think this opinion changes if you don't side with him in the meat locker, unless you call him out on it in the dialogue choices afterwards.

    Lilly confirms my suspicions - Kenny wants to leave - why would this matter to Lilly unless he wanted everyone to leave, thus challenging her belief that everyone should stay? We know their respective opinions on the matter, but everyone else not attached to them through family seems a little ambivalent about it.

    Besides, seeing as how you are pretty much playing the "anti-kenny" route, would you honestly expect him to want you around? Put the shoe on the other foot, and imagine that you had a chance to leave with Clementine, and Kenny had put her in danger more times than one - would YOU take Kenny with you?
  • edited July 2012
    While I agree Larry is pretty much a jerk, I don't care for Kenny's attitude towards the end either. Just because I want to make sure this guy's dead before we kill him (He could've held the salt lick above his head until we were sure..Wouldn't have been a problem.) I become the enemy in his eyes. Larry actually is just about to start breathing when Kenny kills him, so that's something to think about.
    Yeah. I thought Kenny was hypocritical in the meatlocker with his opinion on killing Larry before he reanimated. When the group thought it was the bites that turned peole into "walkers" he was convinced his son would'nt change into a zombie because he wasn't bitten and the group were divided in opinion on whether they should take the risk of waiting to confirm he would not change into a zombie before killing him/ kicking him out the hide out. Now that the group know it is death that that leads to them turning into zombies unless there is brain trauma, Kenny did not want to wait to confirm Larry was dead, in the same way Larry didn't want to wait for Kat to check Duck for wounds. He was just as fearful of Larry turning into a zombie as Larry was of Duck when he thought he was bitten. In both cases Lee can be the voice of reason and keep a clear head to preserve life. I would have liked the option to have wrestled Kenny to prevent him from killing Larry bearing in mind Clementine was watching. I would have preferred to have held Larry down after he turned into a zombie and smashed his head in as it would have had less impact on Clementine. That said if Clementine wasn't with me I would have done many things differently throughout the game.

    If I was to kill Larry for revenge for hitting Lee as I had dreamed about since completing episode one I would have done it when Lilly and Clementine weren't around.

    What I found funny was when Kenny hid when Lee was at gun point. I thought back to when Hershel warned me (the gamer/Lee) that Kenny would repeat what he did to Sean when I depended on him.
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