but he was dead, he had a massive heart attack that stopped his heart, resuscitation is bringing someone back to life in that situation, and i think even a few seconds of no immune system would make the virus take over, resuscitation is impossible, unless you can actually bring a zombie back to life with a defibrillator.
The stat at the end of the game for that decision was labeled, "pragmatic."
It is easy to say that any one individual would make the proper moral and humane decision based on their beliefs, religion, or value. Though that person is one individual.
The situation with Larry affected a group of individuals. They were locked in a room with no plausible way to escape and no way to evade a problem if one were to arise. Context is very important here. A man with a known history of severe heart problems, has very clearly suffered a heart attack. He has had one before and he was only able to make it through because of a selfless effort to get him medication. This attack is even worse. He has been rendered unconscious and he is not breathing with either no pulse or a very feint one. He has not responded to at least two rounds of improperly performed CPR. This man needs serious medical attention or he will die. He will turn, and a group will be locked in a room with him. While discussing this topic on a moral ground, it is vital to understand that by saying one should try to save Larry until he is either saved or turned (because 100% of the time it is one or the other), they are willing to risk their own life.
Is it just, or moral, to make that same decision for every other individual in the room? Is that decision PRAGMATIC to and for everyone else? What if Larry turns and kills Clem before you get a chance to finish him? The decision to save Larry seems to be the selfish choice. The choice of allowing ones own moral value and belief to directly decide another persons fate.
Kenny made the right choice. He may have acted too quickly, but it is the decision that would have to be made at some point. Even if trying bought Larry a few more minutes. Remember there was no way out at that point. As far as they were concerned they were completely trapped.
Sacrifice is necessary for the greater good of others. Unless every other person was willing to die for Larry's sake, he must be finished. That is pragmatic. That is just. We have a military in place that feels the same way. If you can choose for yourself, fine. You can not make those same decisions or choices for someone else.
Actually, I did not even care about him being a douche to me at that point all I thought was survival of the fittest and he was a ticking timebomb in any sense of the word. If not now then later at maybe an even worse location and time, so might as well take the proper cautions with the situation.
What I mean by ticking timebomb is the fact that without nitro pills this would just continue to happen, we met him under such circumstances and it is fair to assume he will end up i that situation again.
It all comes down to size.. not necessarily who I like/dislike. A clementine-sized walker is easy to deal with, compared to huge and massive weight Larry-sized walker. Same for the girls lilly and carley. Carley is small and light so no problem there either. Lilly is taller but also skinny so maybe.. The main reason I killed Larry was his size+weight and not the dislike. So no I wouldn't have smashed carley/clems head in.. because the risk of them becoming a walker and endangering me would be much much smaller.
..because Larry was probably dead and he would've turned. Would you have done the same if it was Carley/Doug lying there? Or Kenny/Katjaa? Lilly? Or even worse.. Clem?
Just wondering if an apparent disike for Larry influenced that decision.
Anyone else wouldnt have been such an immediate threat had they turned, his sheer size in that small room made for a quick death for all.
Had it been anyone else on that floor I would have totally waited to check for pulse, heartbeat; breathing, all that
But Larry, being the ass that he was, made the decision much faster and easier for me.
(My official playthrough I still try to save him, simply because, ass or not, another human is better than another walker)
Yeah, if it was Lilly or Kenny it would have been far easier, and more practical, to check for vital signs again. Larry is a behemoth, if he had gotten back up someone else would have died. I back up Kenny because I hated Larry, I did it because I didn't want to lose more people than we were already going to. If I thought it was possible to save Larry without taking the chance of losing anyone else, I would have. Plus, if he had the choice, I'd like to think he would have let us kill him if there was a chance he could turn and hurt Lilly.
I tried to save Larry in my playthrough since it caught me off-guard, but in my next playthrough I'll side with Kenny. AFAIK, CPR just doesn't work for heart attack victims without a defibrillator, and I think a reanimated Larry can easily kill everyone else in the room since there's no weapons for Lee and Kenny.
I helped Larry and killed both brothers. The only person that I would have had second thoughts about killing in that situation would have been Clem.
Edit: If we would have had some type of weapon then it would have been a different story. But stuck with a walker in a meat locker or any small area with no weapon isn't a very good situation.
I helped Kenny do it, but my hatred for Larry was never a factor. I actually didn't think he was a bad guy at all; he was a stand up man who did what he had to protect his daughter during the worst course of events to ever befall the world. Yeah he was an asshole to Lee and everyone else around him, but I honestly can't blame him given the circumstances and all that he lost. All the characters are starting to display the characteristics that they hated Larry for because they are finally walking the journey he's lived his whole life.
Anyway, I choose to help Kenny because I was thinking about what would happen to Clem if he honestly came back. Was he dead? The game purposely makes it ambiguous so the end decision stays with you, but he wasn't breathing and Clem was with everyone, so I felt it was a chance Lee simply could not afford. Had it been Carly or anyone else aside from Clem, yes I would've still have done it for the same reason. Had it been Clem, I would try to save her because she's the basis of Lee's character; protecting her and a child is more worth it.
If worse comes to worse, it would not be nearly as bad as having a 6 foot four pile-driver like Larry come back as a walker. In the end, I felt bad that Larry had to die and Lilly lost her father, but I don't regret my choice overall.
I kinda regret Killing Larry 100% of the time, hey he was dead, y'know? The players never knew, off-screen I helped Lilly do CPR, he didn't have ANY pulse whatsoever. So I decided "Fuck, I dont wanna do this, but hes dead. Kthxbai Larry, *salt lick*"
Simple, Larry's 300 effing pounds, and assuming Lilly's inability to help, that leaves just an unarmed Lee and Kenny against him should he turn. Even with survival, there's still the issue of escaping the room and dealing with the St. Johns. I can't have another problem added to that, especially a problem so difficult to solve if not pre-emptively.
As to the OP, I never wanted to kill Larry. It was a multitude of reasons for why I let Kenny drop the salt lick on him. We were in a small, enclosed space, without any sort of weapons that would be able to stop a moving walker. Lilly was in a fragile emotional state, and if her father had turned, I didn't think I could rely upon her 100 percent to help us get rid of it. Kenny had made a point earlier that he was so weak from hunger that he nearly passed out on the walk over to the farm (I assumed Lee and Lilly to be in nearly the same state). Larry was physically bigger and stronger in real life. Had any of these things been different (say that Larry was a small guy, or that we weren't locked in a small space), I wouldn't have gone through with it.
Exactly! Larry was dead. Even if he did "comeback to life", he wouldn't be physically stable enough to face whatever was outside. As mark said, "He is all muscle, that man is like a human pile driver"
Exempting the reality that it's highly unlikely any of them would have had a heart attack - yes, for some of them. All of them besides Clem would bear initial consideration due to their size. Larry, being especially large, didn't even merit a discussion.
But seriously. The others wouldn't have had a heart attack. If someone like Doug, Carley, or Kenny (all of whom I adore) fell off a three story building, were unconscious, and appeared to have stopped breathing, and had no pulse, and it seemed like I couldn't bring them back, I'd smash their face in like anyone else.
I actually liked Larry. I understand his motives, even if he is a total dick.
Someone mentioned in another thread that they asked their mother(who's a retired nurse) about the situation, and she said that depending on the type of heart condition, it was in fact possible to revive him.
Larry was not entirely dead. It's not just his breath he takes before Kenny smashes his head in, it's his appearance. The poor bastard at the motor turned extremely quickly and already his physical appearance was vastly different than when he was alive. Not only would Larry likely have turned before Kenny was finished talking if he were dead, but he would had obviously looked like a walker.
Kenny's idea was good, but he went about it incorrectly. Three adults against one walker, when Lee(one single adult) can decently handle one walker(who is not TOO much weaker or smaller than Larry) is not implausible. The salt licks are an effective weapon should he have turned, but were used prematurely.
Reasons I sided with Kenny.
1) Wasn't about to take any chances.
2) Kenny had a right reason to do it. If he did turn before his head was crushed (or for all of you defenders, come back to life through CPR), he could've killed everyone in the room.
3) He's a racist asshole.
But yes. I loved Doug, but if it was him, I would decide "We gotta do this".
Sowwy Doug ;-;
Absolutely it did. Had Larry actually been a decent person, I would struggle with the choice. Don't care that he's only looking out for his daughter. That doesn't mean you treat everyone else like crap. Heck, I'd say Kenny is only looking out for Duck and Katja. He still manages to be civil. Larry has no excuse.
Someone mentioned in another thread that they asked their mother(who's a retired nurse) about the situation, and she said that depending on the type of heart condition, it was in fact possible to revive him.
That would have been me. But she also said that she would have done what Kenny had done and smashed Larry's head in, because the risk was far too great to justify trying to save a behemoth like Larry. Personally, if it had been anyone smaller than him, I would have possibly tried to save them. I'd only go as far as CPR though, I'm not even going to give my own mother mouth-to-mouth if I think she could turn into a walker.
Comments
The stat at the end of the game for that decision was labeled, "pragmatic."
It is easy to say that any one individual would make the proper moral and humane decision based on their beliefs, religion, or value. Though that person is one individual.
The situation with Larry affected a group of individuals. They were locked in a room with no plausible way to escape and no way to evade a problem if one were to arise. Context is very important here. A man with a known history of severe heart problems, has very clearly suffered a heart attack. He has had one before and he was only able to make it through because of a selfless effort to get him medication. This attack is even worse. He has been rendered unconscious and he is not breathing with either no pulse or a very feint one. He has not responded to at least two rounds of improperly performed CPR. This man needs serious medical attention or he will die. He will turn, and a group will be locked in a room with him. While discussing this topic on a moral ground, it is vital to understand that by saying one should try to save Larry until he is either saved or turned (because 100% of the time it is one or the other), they are willing to risk their own life.
Is it just, or moral, to make that same decision for every other individual in the room? Is that decision PRAGMATIC to and for everyone else? What if Larry turns and kills Clem before you get a chance to finish him? The decision to save Larry seems to be the selfish choice. The choice of allowing ones own moral value and belief to directly decide another persons fate.
Kenny made the right choice. He may have acted too quickly, but it is the decision that would have to be made at some point. Even if trying bought Larry a few more minutes. Remember there was no way out at that point. As far as they were concerned they were completely trapped.
Sacrifice is necessary for the greater good of others. Unless every other person was willing to die for Larry's sake, he must be finished. That is pragmatic. That is just. We have a military in place that feels the same way. If you can choose for yourself, fine. You can not make those same decisions or choices for someone else.
What I mean by ticking timebomb is the fact that without nitro pills this would just continue to happen, we met him under such circumstances and it is fair to assume he will end up i that situation again.
Anyone else wouldnt have been such an immediate threat had they turned, his sheer size in that small room made for a quick death for all.
Had it been anyone else on that floor I would have totally waited to check for pulse, heartbeat; breathing, all that
But Larry, being the ass that he was, made the decision much faster and easier for me.
(My official playthrough I still try to save him, simply because, ass or not, another human is better than another walker)
Same here
Great minds...
Anyway, I choose to help Kenny because I was thinking about what would happen to Clem if he honestly came back. Was he dead? The game purposely makes it ambiguous so the end decision stays with you, but he wasn't breathing and Clem was with everyone, so I felt it was a chance Lee simply could not afford. Had it been Carly or anyone else aside from Clem, yes I would've still have done it for the same reason. Had it been Clem, I would try to save her because she's the basis of Lee's character; protecting her and a child is more worth it.
If worse comes to worse, it would not be nearly as bad as having a 6 foot four pile-driver like Larry come back as a walker. In the end, I felt bad that Larry had to die and Lilly lost her father, but I don't regret my choice overall.
ahahaha best solution! kill 2 birds with one stone
Simple, Larry's 300 effing pounds, and assuming Lilly's inability to help, that leaves just an unarmed Lee and Kenny against him should he turn. Even with survival, there's still the issue of escaping the room and dealing with the St. Johns. I can't have another problem added to that, especially a problem so difficult to solve if not pre-emptively.
That's genuinely what it came down to.
Exactly! Larry was dead. Even if he did "comeback to life", he wouldn't be physically stable enough to face whatever was outside. As mark said, "He is all muscle, that man is like a human pile driver"
But seriously. The others wouldn't have had a heart attack. If someone like Doug, Carley, or Kenny (all of whom I adore) fell off a three story building, were unconscious, and appeared to have stopped breathing, and had no pulse, and it seemed like I couldn't bring them back, I'd smash their face in like anyone else.
I actually liked Larry. I understand his motives, even if he is a total dick.
Larry was not entirely dead. It's not just his breath he takes before Kenny smashes his head in, it's his appearance. The poor bastard at the motor turned extremely quickly and already his physical appearance was vastly different than when he was alive. Not only would Larry likely have turned before Kenny was finished talking if he were dead, but he would had obviously looked like a walker.
Kenny's idea was good, but he went about it incorrectly. Three adults against one walker, when Lee(one single adult) can decently handle one walker(who is not TOO much weaker or smaller than Larry) is not implausible. The salt licks are an effective weapon should he have turned, but were used prematurely.
1) Wasn't about to take any chances.
2) Kenny had a right reason to do it. If he did turn before his head was crushed (or for all of you defenders, come back to life through CPR), he could've killed everyone in the room.
3) He's a racist asshole.
But yes. I loved Doug, but if it was him, I would decide "We gotta do this".
Sowwy Doug ;-;
That would have been me. But she also said that she would have done what Kenny had done and smashed Larry's head in, because the risk was far too great to justify trying to save a behemoth like Larry. Personally, if it had been anyone smaller than him, I would have possibly tried to save them. I'd only go as far as CPR though, I'm not even going to give my own mother mouth-to-mouth if I think she could turn into a walker.