I didn't side with Larry!
In Episode 1, in the pharmacy i tried to be civil saying we should reason with Larry but ultimately i sided with Ken in defending Duck. However Ken keeps reminding me how i didn't stand up for him.
Does the game not acknowledge any of the dialog choices after the first one or what? If that's the case that's pretty annoying.
Does the game not acknowledge any of the dialog choices after the first one or what? If that's the case that's pretty annoying.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I've always tried to be diplomatic, hell i stood with him during the fight with Lilly over bringing in new survivors. Although it seems like he's gonna hate me no matter what i do, i hope he at least remembers when i gave his son food.
Reminds me of that time in Alpha Protocol I tried to threaten someone during an interrogation and my character decided to blow the poor girl's brains out. These kinds of massive misunderstandings just aren't acceptable in a story based game.
I had to replay the game from that point just because I got tired of hearing kenny bring it up two or 3 times in my game. And no, it's not cheating. I'm fine with knowing my choices and living with the results, I'm not fine with choices being ambiguous and leading to Lee saying one thing when you were expecting another.
Just before the option, KENNY asks Lee (paraphrased) "Lee what do WE do with this guy?". He's clearly looking for Lee's support.
Lee can then either side with Kenny (kick his ass), side with Larry (I think it says "he's right", not too sure), or you can pick what should be the neutral response ("we reason with him").
If you pick the "reason" option, Kenny then responds "With the side of an axe, maybe". Why would KENNY be telling you to reason with himself using an axe? It's clear from the narrative that you are attempting to calm Kenny down and reason with Larry, but the plot marker appears that you sided with Larry. It makes no sense.
Yes, but after the side of an axe line Lee goes on a tirade about how if Duck is bitten they'll have to throw him out and a bunch of other stuff that's pretty much a big FU to Kenny.
I stand by my statement. With the conversation going the way it did I can understand why Kenny would hold it against you. I just think that particular dialog choice should have made it more clear that you're siding with Larry by choosing it.
The whole point is that the plot marker is wrong. You ultimately side with Larry when you decide to allow him to get Duck (just before Clementine discovers the walker in the restroom), not when you tell Kenny to reason with him. So you can pick this option, hit Larry, goad Kenny into hitting Larry, or shout him down, and the game remembers that you wanted to kill Duck. It's flawed.
It's clear that you are not immediately loyal to Kenny's need to beat the crap out of Larry, not that the option is Lee siding with Larry to kill Duck.
I believe the words Kenny used during the ep2 conversation was "You were ready to throw Duck out..." which is factually true. It doesn't really matter if you decided to do it or not at the last minute. To Kenny, Lee's still a guy who would be willing to do it if it came to that. Maybe not quite as quick or enthusiastic to do it as Larry, but still. It's worth remembering.
Except he tells you immediately afterward that he is grateful that you stood up to Larry, and that you really gave the old man "hell". Also in the meat locker Lee will tell Kenny that he gave Duck the benefit of the doubt, and Kenny will not disagree with that point. Clearly Kenny doesn't immediately take note of the fact that you weren't willing to immediately side with him.
If that bit of dialogue makes such an impact on Kenny's character, it should have been immediately visible, and referred to, instead of the game allowing Kenny to thank Lee one episode, and jump down his throat in the next, based solely on the meat locker decision.
There were parts where Kenny's dialog made use of the final choice and I think sometime during the swing scene and somewhere else he used the earlier choice.
Could have been handled a little bit better or with more subtlety, as it stands it just made Kenny seem bipolar.
I don't mind that Kenny would bring up certain points of dialogue if it was made clear that you attempted to remain neutral by picking the option to reason with Larry. It is like you said, though, right now it feels off, because I can protect Duck, but the game still tells me that I sided with Larry.
Yep, totally agree. Please, please Telltale fix this! It is not fun to be misled with an option like this.
I agree, that's pretty annoying in the drugstore scene (where you don't have a lot of time to react in the first place).
In general, often the written lines differ from what Lee is actually saying when you choose them and you end up saying something you didn't actually meant to say.
Sometimes, it's only a matter of intonation (e.g., I expected Lee to sound a lot more pissed when he tells Andy after returning from the perimeter check that "The electric fence came on!"), sometimes, it's a totally different line and you might achieve the exact opposite of what you were planning to (especially when it's about siding with people in your group).
kenny looks to his "friends" for their back up, and one of them (lee) is sitting on the fence, he is not on your side its kenny and his family against the whole room, but if he looks to his "friends" and lee says it is absolutely wrong to kill the kid and everyone should shut up about it or get a beating, only then could kenny see that as being on his family's side.
it makes sense to me that it is "full support or no support" when it comes to family
For what it's worth though, the bigger choice that comes at the end of that dialogue with clearly marked "save Duck/throw Duck out" tags seems like the major decision when it comes to figuring out if Kenny likes you or not. Kenny might grumble that one time that you weren't ready to jump to his son's defense and the stat screen might say you sided with Larry, but the loyalty is still there.
While most of us probably didn't expect to find that Duck was bitten at that point I think it would be hard to deny that if he did turn into a zombie right then and there that we wouldn't have either put him down or throw him out.
I think the point is that Kenny expects more than what a lot of us players are prepared to give him in the game. I'd say this is an intentional feature, not a flaw in the choices available or plot.
I seriously disagree, and I think it should be patched. Kenny asks Lee what we should do with Larry, and the game proceeds to give you an option to "reason with him." Lee doesn't attempt to defuse the situation, he turns his back on Kenny and begins to side with Larry if you choose that option, and Kenny WILL remember it and hold that false choice against you.
The first time I played through my choice was to side with Kenny, but I wanted to keep people calm so I chose to "reason" with Larry. Watching my brother play through it next, he chose reason with him and was equally confused when Lee turned around and tried to reason with Kenny when the choice really did imply to reason with Larry, who was being pretty unreasonable.
In fact, it's so misleading, I was tricked when I went back to play through it again yesterday! I had to restart the scene because this time I'm going for a bromance with Ken! It wouldn't be too hard to change the option to "Reason with Kenny" and have NO confusion over who you are reasoning with.
Of course no choice is perfect, but what's the point of having to take sides if you game is going to trick you into siding with one person or the other? This is no game-breaker, but it definitely feels like a writing to game play oversight.
We should post this at Support Forums. At least they know about the disagreement about this option and hopefully they release some kind of patch or something.
In the Insider Forum or "Questions for The Walking Dead team" I think they answered about this issue but I don't remember where exactly. If I find this I'll post over here.
I'm fine with the fact that Kenny might remember it differently than Lee. That's realistic and human. What sucks is when Kenny bitches Lee out in ep 2, you have no option to defend yourself or set the record straight. Lee's response is basically "guilty as charged."
You should also have the option to dish it right back to Kenny, for shit like
Here, at the bottom.
The thing is I've activated the in-game notifications about choices and no matters what you say to Kenny. If you say "Reason with him" notifications will say "You didn't side with Kenny". Later, when you say "No, you are not going to touch anybody" to Larry, notifications says "Kenny will remember your loyalty"
Well, yes. Another thing that sucks a lot it's when Kenny say to you in Episode 2 that you wanted to throw Duck out from the drugstore and Lee didn't even defend from that crap, like if that would be true.
This is the annoying thing, I didn't choose that option!!!!
May be but how?
And another thing, why do the game say I "side with Larry" but Kenny clearly thanks me for helping out with Duck after the fuss with Larry and then, an episode later, he's all mad at Lee for not helping?! There's obviously some kind of dialogue tree mixed up here.
Me and most people thinks the same.