Why all the hate from Kenny?

edited October 2012 in The Walking Dead
Does not helping Kenny when it comes taking care of Larry make him pretty much hate you for the best part of episode 3? Just asking because I haven't gone against him at all other than trying to stay neutral at the beginning of ep 2 which seemed to count as siding with Lilly and I didn't help with Larry in the meat locker. Like I saved duck, stood up to Larry, fed duck both times, let the woman get eaten as a distraction, consoled him over Shawn but he talks to me like shit for most of ep 3 and in the scene where you have to get him to stop the train he says you're not my friend you've never done a damn thing for me or something like that but I've done loads for him lol and I read a comment on YouTube where someone did the same as me but Kenny says something like you didn't do the right thing when it came to Larry but I still appreciate all the help you've given my me and my family. So just wanted to know if helping Lilly in the meat locker makes Kenny forget everything you've done for him? Ha is the comment I read a load of bs? Was it the same for you guys or did he still remember the stuff you did to help him? Awesome game though!

Thanks!

Comments

  • edited September 2012
    The larry thing does affect your relationship but he can still pretty much be your friend provided you side with him for most of episode 3.I went against him with larry and sided with lily for most of ep 3,i fought him in the train but i feel now in the next episode hopefully lee will be able to help kenny move on and we can be good friends again. I haven't forgot that Kenny saved my life in episode 1.
  • edited September 2012
    Yeah, the meat locker choice is the biggest thing that determines your friendship with him and Lilly. No matter what you've done, or who you've sided with, whoever you help in the meat locker becomes your friend and whoever you dont help hates you. I helped him with Larry, but didn't steal the food and killed the girl in episode 3 and he and I are still best friends. It makes the covnersation on the train a bit different depending on if he likes you or not. Personally, I'm GLAD I sided with him, because it kind of seems like Lilly supporters got cheated when she left.
  • edited September 2012
    I love Kenny. He's a hypocrite, but that's part of what makes him a very multidimensional character just like the rest of the cast. I'd rather kill Larry, Larry is mostly an asshole and having Kenny as your bro is awesome. Regardless whether you blame him for Shawn's death in ep 1, he gives you a ride to Macon. Regardless of whether you helped him kill Larry or not, he still defends you when Lilly tries to justify herself using Lee's past. Regardless of how you treat Lilly, she's still a bitch and kills Carley or Doug. His hypocrisy makes me upset but that's part of what makes him a realistic character, and for having flaws, I really like him. Just like Larry, he just looks out for his family, and there's nothing wrong with that. Kenny isn't a total ass about it, though...
  • edited September 2012
    Thanks guys but don't suppose you know anything about the dialogue on the train where even if you didn't help with Larry he still refers to all the times you helped him? I personally don't think it exists but think it should because for him to say I'm not his friend and never helped him seems unrealistic considering all the times I've had his back, but like you said Natalie he is flawed so maybe in the state he was in at the time he didn't consider it. Would also like to say Kenny is an awesome bro if you side with him when it comes to Larry but if you don't you see a darker side to him... He won't help you when Dan is about to kill you and at the beginning of ep 3 he will eye the door rather than help you, nevertheless I still like Kenny and will definitely try to get back on good terms which we are on kind of on since we both want look for a boat (said I would help clem look for parents before we find it though) and showed him compassion when it came to duck but I think the make or break of the relationship may possibly be whether or not you leave omid and/or go looking for clems parents when he insists the boat comes first. Unfortunately I think Kenny and I are probably going to end up butting heads over something very serious and you guys may think he's your best bud but he was willing to let the guy who backed him in every single way, saved his kid, stood up to larry, took the supplies and kept his son fed die! Which I will try to forgive but never forget haha, as for Lilly leaving cheating people I disagree because she murdered carly/Doug which was sad but great for shock value, this made it impossible for her to stay. I believe the reason you could side with Lilly was to create drama between you and Kenny in the later part of the episode and possibly future episodes, so basically siding with Lilly adds to the drama between Lee and Ken
  • edited September 2012
    Kenny is written as a classic coward. The few times when he does something seemingly "heroic" was for his family. He is a character written as someone who is out for himself. Even saving his family benefited Kenny, so Kenny saved them.

    But Kenny will not stick his neck out for someone else unless it benefits him in some major way, unless the writers cheat.

    And if he does not commit suicide in episode 4 (and the writers have already hinted that he won't, as he is now focused on not looking back but moving forward) then Kenny will take looking out for himself to a new level with no family to hold back his selfish and cowardly ways.

    But congrats to the writers. Killing Carly drew me into the story by pissing me off. Though I don't think Lee would have taken his eye off Lily knowing she was so close to the edge, and thus, it should not have happened.

    Though at times Lee's dialogue has bugged me, I understand it is because they are trying to write Lee as much for everyone as for one person, but I think some of Lee's auto-dialogue choices should be based on the actions he's taken as well.

    Lily's personality sort of reminds me of Six from the New Battlestar Galactica.

    So far they have done a much better job with The Walking Dead than they have with their other games. Everyone involved seems pretty passionate about it. I just hope they don't end up having to "cheat" their way to an ending by forcing a break in character.

    They should definitely be allowed to license this for another five episodes, but they should also be working on something else too?
  • edited September 2012
    They've already announced a Season 2 for Walking Dead I think, or at the very least they've said that this isn't the last Walking Dead related project they'll work on.
  • edited September 2012
    Jokieman wrote: »
    So far they have done a much better job with The Walking Dead than they have with their other games. Everyone involved seems pretty passionate about it. I just hope they don't end up having to "cheat" their way to an ending by forcing a break in character.

    They should definitely be allowed to license this for another five episodes, but they should also be working on something else too?

    Agreed. The thing that killed the Jurassic Park game was arbitrarily turning characters into "evil characters" just because they had no idea how to move the plot forward. It frustrated me to no end and killed most of any good will I had for the game (it still wouldn't have been great but it wouldn't have been as bad). I hope the writers for this game are smarter than that, because turning Kenny or someone into a straightforward villain would just suck the fun.

    And while I cannot wait for Season 2 of this, I would really love to see Telltale put more investment into original properties. It's fine to do adaptations, but at some point you need an original flagship property to also lean on. So far none of their original work has been able to do that. They just need to back a good story that they can say is a wholly original property.
  • edited September 2012
    It's a money thing. By going with projects that already have a huge following in the TV / Movie / Past game popularity segment they have a bit of built in revenue there.

    But I agree. They really need to work on something wholly their own.
  • edited September 2012
    I liked Puzzle Agent. Enough.
  • edited September 2012
    Jokieman wrote: »
    Kenny is written as a classic coward. The few times when he does something seemingly "heroic" was for his family. He is a character written as someone who is out for himself. Even saving his family benefited Kenny, so Kenny saved them.

    But Kenny will not stick his neck out for someone else unless it benefits him in some major way, unless the writers cheat.

    And if he does not commit suicide in episode 4 (and the writers have already hinted that he won't, as he is now focused on not looking back but moving forward) then Kenny will take looking out for himself to a new level with no family to hold back his selfish and cowardly ways.

    But congrats to the writers. Killing Carly drew me into the story by pissing me off. Though I don't think Lee would have taken his eye off Lily knowing she was so close to the edge, and thus, it should not have happened.

    Though at times Lee's dialogue has bugged me, I understand it is because they are trying to write Lee as much for everyone as for one person, but I think some of Lee's auto-dialogue choices should be based on the actions he's taken as well.

    Lily's personality sort of reminds me of Six from the New Battlestar Galactica.

    So far they have done a much better job with The Walking Dead than they have with their other games. Everyone involved seems pretty passionate about it. I just hope they don't end up having to "cheat" their way to an ending by forcing a break in character.

    They should definitely be allowed to license this for another five episodes, but they should also be working on something else too?

    Actually, the Kenny in my game isn't a coward. I've never seen his "coward" side because my main playthrough is with him and I love it. He's a pretty cool guy if you take his side, as I'm sure Lilly isn't the she-devil she is in my game if you side with her.He'll stick his neck out for his friends and family, but he could care less about strangers.I'd let him watch my back any day in my game, and personally am glad that he's coming into Savannah with me. The only person I trusted more was Carley.
  • edited September 2012
    the fact Kenny to protect his family above all else does not make him a coward.
    he saved me 2 times in the drugstore, and it was not cowardice.
  • edited September 2012
    the fact Kenny to protect his family above all else does not make him a coward.
    he saved me 2 times in the drugstore, and it was not cowardice.
    True, but not helping you because you dared to disagree with him later on still makes him an asshole.
  • edited September 2012
    ...makes him an asshole.

    I think Kenny has some serious esteem issues. If you build him up and cover his ass, he's Lee's personal hero, but if you leave him hanging, he's fearful and defensively hostile.
  • edited September 2012
    Agreed. If you don't help him he's more of an asshole than a coward. Just like Lilly.
  • edited September 2012
    Lilly reacts from an unhealthy need to control, thanks to daddy. I can sympathize with fear and low self-esteem, but not arrogance.
  • edited October 2012
    the fact Kenny to protect his family above all else does not make him a coward.
    he saved me 2 times in the drugstore, and it was not cowardice.

    I still tend to peg him as a coward; in the case of Shawn and Duck, there was nothing stopping him from, you know, coming back once Duck was clear. In Ep 2, he's also the only man in the group that won't help with the pickup walker (despite the fact that it's his wife at immediate risk); Mark and Larry will, Doug will... Kenny won't.

    The one time he helped me in the Drug Store in Ep 1, he wasn't in any serious danger either; the only Walker within range was both focused on me and in a prone position - the next nearest Walker was putzing around halfway across the store.
  • edited October 2012
    I'm sorry, but the notion that Kenny is a coward because he only risks his life for his family and friends is not a strong argument. People develop courage and risk their lives because they have something to protect; something they believe is much more important than them. I understand that there are people who risk their lives for strangers as well as their loved one, but that doesn't make Kenny's actions towards his family and friends any less heroic.

    The reality of WD is a harsh one that cannot really be compared to our reality because strangers and survivors are usually even bigger threats than the walker or are simply more mouths to feed. As for Shawn, I honestly believe Kenny would've helped had Duck not been in trouble. He's a father and made the right decision to help his son and felt horrible afterwards.

    He saves Lee no mater what in episode 1 and is always the one to accompany Lee to get food or supplies. Yes, he has esteem issues and can be a hypocrite, but he still risks his life for those that he loves and would give it up for his family. As sad as it is, not everyone does that for their loved ones. He's a brave guy no matter how you look at it; just because he does it for those he loves does not make it any less courageous. The danger is still there and very much a real threat.

    I agree that Kenny defiently still has the capacity for cowardice too if him and Lee aren't exactly best buddies. He's not 100% fearless or courageous, but he still swallows his pride even if Lee was an absolute horror to him (if you make him kill Duck, fight him to stop the train, always side with Larry, not tell him his past) and agrees to move because it is what Kat would want. He's a brave guy who knows how to risk his life for people he cares for; in a ZA, that's the best things anyone can really do since no one else can truly be trussed as WD continuously shows.
  • edited October 2012
    Rommel49 wrote: »
    I still tend to peg him as a coward; in the case of Shawn and Duck, there was nothing stopping him from, you know, coming back once Duck was clear. In Ep 2, he's also the only man in the group that won't help with the pickup walker (despite the fact that it's his wife at immediate risk); Mark and Larry will, Doug will... Kenny won't.

    The one time he helped me in the Drug Store in Ep 1, he wasn't in any serious danger either; the only Walker within range was both focused on me and in a prone position - the next nearest Walker was putzing around halfway across the store.

    he had just had an argument with his wife and stormed off, conveniently (for plot purposes) making larry have a chance at redemption etc. if he was there he would have saved his wife then saved you
  • edited October 2012
    he had just had an argument with his wife and stormed off, conveniently (for plot purposes) making larry have a chance at redemption etc. if he was there he would have saved his wife then saved you

    Except that he's about as far away as Larry and Mark (he may even be a tad closer), distance-wise. Hell, Carley's in the same area on the other side of the RV and she'll be there to help, even if only at the end.

    And of course, he obviously witnessed the attack, since he knew the Walker attacked his wife, which was only at the very beginning.

    Granted, yeah, it seems to be a plot device, but the fact he wasn't there still doesn't pass the smell test. :p
  • edited October 2012
    Rommel49 wrote: »
    Except that he's about as far away as Larry and Mark (he may even be a tad closer), distance-wise. Hell, Carley's in the same area on the other side of the RV and she'll be there to help, even if only at the end.

    And of course, he obviously witnessed the attack, since he knew the Walker attacked his wife, which was only at the very beginning.

    Granted, yeah, it seems to be a plot device, but the fact he wasn't there still doesn't pass the smell test. :p

    Really? where was he ? i don't remember seeing him, i thought he was in the "to far away to notice or help" part of the motel in terms of plot
  • edited October 2012
    It actually seems quite out of character for Kenny to not be there to help Kat. Notice how he puts his family above even his own safety EVERY time it comes up. He was very nearly gutshot trying to get Duck away from Andy, and just played it off like it was nothing on the way back to the motel. I can't see why he WOULDN'T be there to save/help Kat. Seems more like a fault on the writer's part than Kenny's, given how much crap he goes through to keep Duck and Kat safe.
  • edited October 2012
    Kenny is impulsive and has difficulty accepting consequences, he always needs someone to approach and comfort him when he does something which burdens him.

    For example, he'll admit his guilt in the pharmacy after Hershel's farm and you can console him about it which causes him to admire you. Hell, he looks back at Katjaa after Shawn dies, basically looking for her acceptance.

    When you've finally thought he's moved on from Hershel's farm and he's just showing his family's best interests, Larry collapses and he offers you a logical point and asks you to back him up on bashing his head in.

    Why? He needs you to comfort him, he needs you to say "This is the right thing", he doesn't have Katja there to comfort him with her acceptance and he requires you to be there for him.

    When you're not, he--being impulsive--does so anyway but associates the act with you, he doesn't like you because your refusal to back him up only burdens him with more guilt. Lee becomes a personification of Kenny's guilt in the meat locker. It's why it seems at times that he hates Lee more than Lilly.

    Episode 3 only reinforces further that Kenny's actions for his family burden him greater than he lets on, he believes Hershel's farm is the reason for why Duck was bitten.

    Kenny is a flawed man who acts before he thinks, he's lost everything and the only person that's left from the original group for him is Lee, the man who believes in him or the man who sees him as a monster (despite Lee possibly trying to make amends).

    My two cents.
  • edited October 2012
    Kenny is impulsive and has difficulty accepting consequences, he always needs someone to approach and comfort him when he does something which burdens him.

    For example, he'll admit his guilt in the pharmacy after Hershel's farm and you can console him about it which causes him to admire you. Hell, he looks back at Katjaa after Shawn dies, basically looking for her acceptance.

    When you've finally thought he's moved on from Hershel's farm and he's just showing his family's best interests, Larry collapses and he offers you a logical point and asks you to back him up on bashing his head in.

    Why? He needs you to comfort him, he needs you to say "This is the right thing", he doesn't have Katja there to comfort him with her acceptance and he requires you to be there for him.

    When you're not, he--being impulsive--does so anyway but associates the act with you, he doesn't like you because your refusal to back him up only burdens him with more guilt. Lee becomes a personification of Kenny's guilt in the meat locker. It's why it seems at times that he hates Lee more than Lilly.

    Episode 3 only reinforces further that Kenny's actions for his family burden him greater than he lets on, he believes Hershel's farm is the reason for why Duck was bitten.

    Kenny is a flawed man who acts before he thinks, he's lost everything and the only person that's left from the original group for him is Lee, the man who believes in him or the man who sees him as a monster (despite Lee possibly trying to make amends).

    My two cents.

    Sounds pretty accurate. Him mentioning Shawn again really caught me off guard...
  • edited October 2012
    I sided with kenny through most of the episodes, helped him kill Larry, fought with him on the train (even though I was trying not to). And he still refused to go with me to save Clem. I think it all comes down to wheather or not you saved Duck at the farm ( I didn't).
  • edited October 2012
    Tracerhaha wrote: »
    I sided with kenny through most of the episodes, helped him kill Larry, fought with him on the train (even though I was trying not to). And he still refused to go with me to save Clem. I think it all comes down to wheather or not you saved Duck at the farm ( I didn't).

    Same here. Did you pick "I NEED you Kenny" ? Because i did he didn't come with me. I rewinded it and picked "Shes my family" (or something like that) and he came with me.
  • edited October 2012
    Kenny: "Why should I care about Molly?"

    Lee: "She saved your life..."

    Kenny: "Yeah, but what has she done for me lately?"

    That's Kenny, in his own words.
  • edited October 2012
    bazenji wrote: »
    Kenny: "Why should I care about Molly?"

    Lee: "She saved your life..."

    Kenny: "Yeah, but what has she done for me lately?"

    That's Kenny, in his own words.

    Dark humour :P

    I really doubt he was serious. Anyway she left us to definitely die in the alleyway and kept the battery so I have little sympathy anyway.
  • edited October 2012
    Lol. Totally random, but a friend of mine thinks that Lee and Kenny should become gay lovers, LOL. Because if I read correctly, Gavin Hammon is gay. That is, if there aren't two Gavin's.
  • edited October 2012
    Kenny is an asshole. He wanted you to drop Ben to his death.

    Just because I don't agree with Kenny 100% he sometimes will choose not to assist you when you really need it.

    I hate Ben and think a lot of his decisions put my group at risk, but that is not enough motive to just feed him to the zombies. He still deserves better than that. I want him to die because he fails himself, not because I just decided to kill him.
  • edited October 2012
    Yeah, Molly WAS going to let both of us die horribly in the alley. The only reason she saved us was because of Clem, and even then she didn't give two shits about Lee or Kenny. It was all for Clem.
  • edited October 2012
    Well in Molly's defense Kenny and Lee did just try to jump her.

    My Lee actually won the fight.

    So yeah would you save the guys who just tried to Jump you?

    It's lucky for everyone that Clementine came.
  • edited October 2012
    Lucky for "everyone" and lucky for "everyone who's not Molly" are two different things.
  • edited October 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Lucky for "everyone" and lucky for "everyone who's not Molly" are two different things.

    That's true but Molly did come out with a picture at least.
  • edited October 2012
    I hate him because he didn't help me back at the barn with one of the brothers in episode 2 and many more others when walkers were on me. In episode 5, I didn't even shoot the walker that grabbed him haha.
  • edited October 2012
    I hate him because he didn't help me back at the barn with one of the brothers in episode 2 and many more others when walkers were on me. In episode 5, I didn't even shoot the walker that grabbed him haha.

    Episode 5 isn't even out.
  • edited October 2012
    In episode 4 he's still pretty pissy no matter what and you won't get any messages that say "Kenny appreciates your sympathy" even if you're best friends with him. He doesn't get more selfless either, even though his family is gone. Although he still has his fondness of Clementine like everyone in the group.
  • edited October 2012
    Originally I let go of Ben and told Kenny "I need him..." when trying to gather a party to go look for Clem. He gave me the whole spiel about how I haven't been there for him at times and stayed with the boat even when I've sided with him over 98% of the time throughout the entire game. I ended up going with Omid and Christa (or whatever her name is).

    I decided to play the last two chapters of episode 4 over and saved Ben instead, which should have (and did) piss Kenny off even more. However, during the confrontation about the bite/Clem, I decided to say "Clementine is my family..." and after Kenny gave his whole spiel again he sympathized with me and decided to come instead. He did, however, have a gripe when I asked Ben to come but I told him to deal with it and reminded Ben of how Clem stood up for him, so the kid decided to come along as well. In the end, I got the whole team to come with me when I went back.

    I believe that it really comes down to your final choice of words to Kenny during that last conversation. Unless, I suspect, you've been a dick to Kenny throughout the episodes, but who knows.

    I do, however, wonder what might happen to the boat now that I left no one to guard it.
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