Fuck lilly!
F*CK LILLY!
I always heard on these forums that she was a bitch, and playing through episode 1 and 2 I could understand why, but I always saw the necessity of having someone focused on the task at hand. I sympathized with her and her grumpy-ass father.
I got him meds for his heart, I gave him food when others needed it more, I tried to restart his heart with Lilly when Kenny wanted to kill him (again). I became friends with Lilly after that and she was the first person I told about my (Lee's) past.
Then she has to go and pull THIS SHIT! Just because someone told her to her face what a crazy fucking bitch she's being!?
And the fact you can't save her, no matter what, only serves to drive the point home. You really should've made the choices affect that outcome Telltale. Like if you're nice to Lilly you can calm her down. Because to me, on a Lilly-sympathist playthrough, it's just crap.
Seriously Telltale, this is forced drama and it fucking sucks!:mad:
I cried, sure. But that's because Carley was your best character and Lee was falling for her. He had been cheated on by his wife and he needs to be able to move on.. and well currently, the only girl left is Katjaa.. And not only is there no connection there, but I don't think Kenny would be too happy about it anyway.
Now, unless Lee's past isn't all it seems to be, and he somehow is still in love with his wife (ala the dream from ep1).. He needs to be able to move on with someone else at some point in the story. So it's up to the writers to do that, but I seriously don't think they'll be able to write a better character than Carley. Especially if they think they need to inflict this kind of forced drama to make their story compelling. Because they don't.
Irregardless of the metagaming aspect, I hope those walkers get that fucking air-force bitch. I hope she dies a slow, painful, merciless death like those sick St. John Brothers.
/rant. But does anyone else agree with any of this?
Does anyone feel my pain?:(
notes: redirected from NO spoilers section.
I always heard on these forums that she was a bitch, and playing through episode 1 and 2 I could understand why, but I always saw the necessity of having someone focused on the task at hand. I sympathized with her and her grumpy-ass father.
I got him meds for his heart, I gave him food when others needed it more, I tried to restart his heart with Lilly when Kenny wanted to kill him (again). I became friends with Lilly after that and she was the first person I told about my (Lee's) past.
Then she has to go and pull THIS SHIT! Just because someone told her to her face what a crazy fucking bitch she's being!?
And the fact you can't save her, no matter what, only serves to drive the point home. You really should've made the choices affect that outcome Telltale. Like if you're nice to Lilly you can calm her down. Because to me, on a Lilly-sympathist playthrough, it's just crap.
Seriously Telltale, this is forced drama and it fucking sucks!:mad:
I cried, sure. But that's because Carley was your best character and Lee was falling for her. He had been cheated on by his wife and he needs to be able to move on.. and well currently, the only girl left is Katjaa.. And not only is there no connection there, but I don't think Kenny would be too happy about it anyway.
Now, unless Lee's past isn't all it seems to be, and he somehow is still in love with his wife (ala the dream from ep1).. He needs to be able to move on with someone else at some point in the story. So it's up to the writers to do that, but I seriously don't think they'll be able to write a better character than Carley. Especially if they think they need to inflict this kind of forced drama to make their story compelling. Because they don't.
Irregardless of the metagaming aspect, I hope those walkers get that fucking air-force bitch. I hope she dies a slow, painful, merciless death like those sick St. John Brothers.
/rant. But does anyone else agree with any of this?
Does anyone feel my pain?:(
notes: redirected from NO spoilers section.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
There are several threads on here along the same lines, a word of advise tho, avoid reading anything on here until you have finished the whole episode. This episode is full of shocking moments and you really don't want to get spoiled.
Crappiest.day.ever.
Poor Kenny. Although it's kinda his fault.
I am so glad I sided with Kenny. Brothers to the End.
Edit: But I would so like a singular one like the Fuck Kenny! thread.
There have? Dang, I never found them. Although, we DO need a singular Fuck Lilly thread, no matter how irrelevant it may be now.
Count every thread complaining about Carley as a anti-lilly thread, in heart they are.
I specific Fuck Lilly! thread might confuse some and maybe raise the hope of others
Kenny is forever my bro. Like this person said:
Amen Natalie! Team Kenny til the End...
Bullshit. Those who oppose the khaki princess have had to resort to the Fuck Kenny thread and all those Carley threads you cite as being anti-Lilly, are really anti-Ben.
Maybe the game self-destructed into a contrived dramafest with episode 3.
And maybe the game is biding its time until episode 4 to reveal some tricks.
I don't know what to make of Lilly after she kills Carley/Doug. I don't think survivors have the luxury of getting rid of people just because they're murderers, as pretty much all of the original survivors are murderers now. I'm not sure how likely Lilly is to murder again, and I'm not sure if she's more or less dangerous than Kenny and Ben. I'd be willing to toss Lilly, Kenny, and Ben to the walkers to clean up the trash. They all turned on the group and aren't trustworthy.
Can't blame Ben without blaming Lilly, and read through all of the Carley threads, there are plenty of people who are anti-lilly and complaining in them.
We can't get rid of someone who murdered a group member in cold blood? Lee never did anything to any member of the group, and when Kenny killed Larry he had reasonable cause. Lilly was the first to outright MURDER someone for no reason.
Being a murderer isn't a big deal in TWD. Everyone does it, so it's wrong to use that as a reason to not group with people. It's more important to consider what makes people homicidal and consider whether it's a risk you can manage or not.
Lee (optionally) murders people who attack the group or are threatening him (and probably Clem). He doesn't seem that dangerous to the group.
Ben isn't a murderer but he gets people killed. So he's more or less one. If Ben feels in danger or is outsmarted, he's dangerous. And since he's not very smart and there's always danger, he's pretty high risk. There's nothing you can do to mitigate what makes him dangerous.
Lilly didn't murder in cold blood. She snapped and murdered someone in hot blood. However, remember she rounded people up because she was flushing out the traitor. Traitors make her paranoid and unstable. It's unclear if she now sees traitor everywhere and is dangerous no matter what, or if the problem was the traitor provoking her. If you're not a traitor or defending one, Lilly doesn't murder you. It seemed possible to keep her homicides under control, at least before she snapped.
Kenny is also paranoid (he suspected the barn, where he turned out to be right), but he doesn't murder people because of it. He murders people who might not be dead. He'd maybe murder someone who is knocked unconscious without checking for a pulse. He abandons people he thinks are lost causes (see the girl being chased by zombies), and depending on your playthrough, he will instigate dangerous situations and then not help (see the barn). He's dangerous, because you can't prevent getting into dangerous situations or becoming wounded or temporarily incapacitated. You can mitigate one of Kenny's dangers by not following his lead into a fight or expecting him to back you up.
So, it's a question of whether you think that you can handle the homicidal triggers these people have. By the end of episode 3, Lee is the safest murderer to have all along, and the others all seem pretty dangerous.
Just because Ben made a mistake (he thought he was protecting his friend) does not make him a murderer. And not helping others does not make him dangerous, it makes him useless.
And it doesn't matter if she was "flushing" out traitors (this was Lilly shouting at people she didn't like and making wild accusations) she still shot an innocent with no proof. If she can do that to a person as likeable as Carely, there's no reason she can't one day start suspecting Lee and talking crap about him. She was clearly unstable and so a threat to everyone, an ACTUAL threat unlike Ben who might just leave you to die.
And Kenny murdered a man who may have been dead and may have about to reanimate and kill everyone in the meat locker, which would lead to Duck and Kat getting eaten and Ben and Carely possibly getting ambushed. It's not hard to see why Kenny made his choice in the meatlocker. Also he left a person who was already bitten and basically dead, so others can survive. And he saved your life in ep 1. And in ep 3 if you make the right call.
Say what you want about Ben or Kenny, the worst they will do is leave you to die. Lilly was a real threat and a loose cannon. As far as risks go, it seems to be
1. Lilly- Shot and killed an innocent with no evidence
2. Ben- Made a mistake with the bandits and might leave you/Clem in ep 4 (Its not set in stone)
3. Kenny- Doesn't help Lee's who made the wrong choice in the meat locker escape immediately.
Ben gets people killed. Maybe he can learn, but it's a big risk trying to educate the stupid out of him before he kills people again. Dangerous.
Lilly went crazy when there is a real traitor, killing innocents, so now she'd probably go crazy on anyone. But if there was no traitor? Well, there's no way to know if someone hadn't driven her over the edge. Very dangerous.
Kenny quickly kills and abandons people. He's dangerous if you get hurt, are in danger, or more importantly, if he thinks you are hurt or in danger. If you had a fever, he'd bash in your head because maybe you'd die in your sleep, whereas others might argue to keep watch on you. Maybe Kenny is right, which is why I think his idea of caution will improve your chances of survival, right up until you trigger him and he murders you or leaves you to die. Dangerous.
Totally, man. Especially after ep. 2 Lilly seems much more compassionate to people who need help. Lilly tries to help people but she does have a line where doing something insane would put the group in big danger. She is protective of her own. I don't mind her homicidal tendencies because my Lee has them too. You threaten the group, you die. You betray the group, you die.
Leaving your own to gruesome death is the thing I hate the most in people during ZA. When you choose to live with people in ZA, share your food, supplies and shelter, they become your family. Leaving some of them for dead just because they need a bit more help than you would offer strangers is one of the unforgivable sins for me.
Of course that would have to put Lilly in the top of my hate list, because she did kill one of our own. However, in my eyes the group was already rotten and knowing that there was a traitor... well I knew it was all coming to an end. However, if I was to start a new group with some of the previous members, Lilly would be my first choice. I just know that she would always have my back, no matter how great the risk. That's enough for me.
"Before he kills people again"? I don't understand, since when did Ben kill a guy? He made one mistake with the bandits and he made that one for the right reasons at least. It's a shame that it led to Duck/Kat dieing but that's no good reason to murder Ben.
And I think Ben would have never said he was the traitor if Lilly was still around, so even if she stayed she would still be a paranoid phyco. Thank god she left is all I'm saying. She also stole the RV, our one chance of escape if walkers arrive.
And that's a typical Lilly fan response. Kenny removes a threat which could have led to everyone dying and smashes the head of a man who was probably dead anyway. The last heart attack he had, we had to risk our lives to get him his stupid medicine, right before he punched us in the face. And in the meat locker, Larry was under a lot more stress than before, his heart was also probably damaged. I don't know where you get this idea that the second you start feeling weak, Kenny will leave or kill you. And at least I know Kenny's on my side in my canon, he's always looked out for me. Sure he isn't as helpful to you if you risk his and his families lives for a old bastard but I wouldn't be surprised at that
Also Yami, you say that the group is like a family. Lilly kills a innocent member of the family but its okay because the group was "rotten". She then steals the family RV and leaves everyone to die. And you would invite her back first chance you got? Seems legit
You always seemed so calm in the no spoilers section.
Lol I love this passion! (note bolded part)
TL;DR:Stop the hate, choosing sides is stupid
then choosing anything is stupid, why have an opinion either way if its stupid to pick.
You don't have to always pick kennys side for him to become your friend, you can actually be totally against him all through episode 1, 2 and 3 up until lilly snaps outside the RV then if you are friendly to him you are buddies by the end of episode 3
That's not what i meant. The point is, if you play just to get along with Lilly or Kenny makes the story senseless, you should just do what you think is right rather than just siding to someone because you like them.
i felt like choosing a side is what i should do, and i choose Kenny because i like him more than lilly and i agree with basically everything he says
I get what you mean. In my original playthrough I've made decisions based on what I felt was the right thing to do rather then siding with anybody in particular.
I've done other playthroughs where I've sided with Lilly or Kenny exclusively just to experience all the different conversations.
even though i sided with kenny (in my first game) on the important things i wasn't just saying fuck you lilly, i was just not on her side.
Larry could have been seconds away from dieing and Lilly already confirmed he wasn't breathing. There just wasn't enough to time to keep trying resuscitation. And sure he would have thought twice if it was Kat, I would be worried if he didn't. But it was still the right choice. Also how is Kenny paranoid/extremist? Him not wanting to give up on Duck was natural an it wasn't like he died yet.
And I love choosing sides
My Lee would be so boring if he always said "..."
Ben didn't just make one mistake though, the deal with the bandits was an ongoing thing. And even in spite of the bandits attacking the motel, Lilly does have a point that the theft of those supplies can get somebody killed. Nobody's restocking store shelves or producing things like antibiotics; the low-hanging fruit in that regard is going to be gone pretty quick. If somebody steals things like your food stocks or medicine during a survival scenario, that's potentially a death sentence whether it be starvation or infection.
Both Kenny and Lilly risk the group's safety for their family; the threat from Larry could've been mitigated pretty easily, he was in a prone position. We never see a Walker reanimate without some warning, etc. compare this to Duck who's being held by Katjaa (hell, Kenny does essentially get the entire group killed if the train isn't stopped).
From a survival point-of-view, both the Lilly/Kenny options suck. They're the tin-man and the scarecrow, Lilly's heartless (but atleast knew enough to instruct the group) while Kenny's clueless.
I guess it's just opinion whether Bens deal counts as one thing or many. And sure I understand that supplies are important. I don't think they warranted executions. Also if you think it's a choice between your friend dying or the group losing supplies, wouldn't you make the drops too? Whether it was one mistake or many, the point is it was made with his friend in mind and I respect that. I'm not going to kill him for it. Also Ben didn't say anything while Lilly/ Carely fought or after because he knew tensions were running high and that he could be blamed and killed. Also I don't agree with Ben leading to all three deaths. Lilly and her paranoia was responsible for Carely. She pulled the trigger with no proof, it's her fault. Regarding Duck and Kat, it was obvious the bandits knew were the base was anyway. If we didn't make a deal, they would attack and then walkers would arrive. Perhaps all Ben did was delay the fight.
And the leg less walker in ep 2 and the cop in ep 1 reanimate with little warning. Besides you won't know he is a walker until he actually leaps up and tries to kill you. Larry may have been prone but could have been seconds away from reaminating. The RV situation is dangerous but not half as much as the meat locker anyway, at least we get some time and warning before Duck reaminates and we have a gun. Also I wouldn't call Kenny clueless just because he can't immediately give up on his son.
I wouldn't have dealt with the bandits period, for the simple reason that we know what sort of people they are from Jolene. It's a common sense matter too: Even if you believed them about having your friend, once you start dealing with them, they have no reason to let your friend go, well, ever. He's just become their golden goose. Besides which, not dealing with them only puts the friend at risk - handing over those supplies potentially puts the entire group at risk.
Both the cop and legless walker gave pretty obvious signs if you pay attention; we hear the raspy breath sounds from both, and the cop twitches prior to attacking. The pickup walker is even less subtble, you can hear it thumping around in the truck bed (even with the dialogue between Lee and Katjaa) before it attacks.
I don't peg Kenny as being clueless just because of his kid.. though, allowing any infected person's mouth anywhere near the face and neck of a loved one doesn't strike me as particularly bright, shouting "you friendly!?" in Macon, talking to himself in the slaughter room and potentially giving away the fact we had escaped from the Meat Locker for no good reason before we were armed, etc.
What if they had you're best friend or Clem? Would you deal with them then? And for all Ben knew, he was the only thing keeping his friend alive. If Ben stops the deal, then they would just kill his friend and have dinner. Besides I know Ben made a stupid mistake. But I also think that he made it with his friend in mind so I'm not going to kill him for it. And leaving him on the road somewhere is little different to killing him. And I think Bens learned his lesson anyway.
If Larry starts making raspy breaths or starts moving, that's not great evidence that he's a walker. Even if you think that's evidence, would Lilly agree in the couple of seconds you have to decide? Don't think so.
And I doubt he hardly thrust Duck into Kats arms. She probably picked him up and refused to let go off him. Him calling out in Macon shoes his inexperience and his expectations that things wouldn't be so bad there. And I'm not bothered by him talking to himself in the slaughter room, he was quiet and his family was kidnapped so I'm not suprised
Dealing with the bandits is a no go, period. We know what kind of people they are - they rape and murder, lying is hardly a big leap. Look at the last person who tried dealing with them; Jolene begged them "every way she could" for her daughter and it got her nowhere. Even if they gave me proof of life I'd be more inclined to either poison anything I gave them. I know I'm not getting my friend or Clem back whether I deal with them or not, the best I can do is avenge them.
A captive only gives them leverage if you let it, and once you do, they always have that leverage. Considering that the bandits are known for little things like rape, odds are any captive they have would probably prefer to be dead anyway.
I wouldn't need Lilly to agree if I thought Larry was turning. We already know as much.
Kenny had no reason to suspect things were better in Macon though; the town's clearly in bad shape even before we see Walkers. Kenny wasn't that quiet in the slaughter room either, considering he's audible a room over - even Lee can make the observation that Kenny might get them killed. Kenny makes zero effort to even isolate his kid from the other survivors; it wasn't "oh he couldn't convince her", he couldn't convince himself - Katjaa had the good sense to know when Duck was basically out of time, it's Kenny that won't stop the train on his own (and we can see what happens if Kenny isn't convinced to stop, it results in the deaths of pretty much the entire group).
I agree with everything you said man. There is only one way to deal with bandits in ZA/post-apocalyptic world
Lily breakdown seemed forced on my playthrough because I was fair and kind to Lily throughout the game. But the fact of the matter is forced or not she did murder a gang member in cold blood. I don't want her anywhere around Clem. Not only because she is a murderer but because I can't trust her anymore.
The only way it makes sense to support Lily in episode three is if you metagame because it doesn't cost you anything (except your soul) and could work out to your advantage should you cross paths again and need her support.
Carley and Kat were the only two characters I could trust and held the group together. With them gone fuck Lily, Kenny, and the new people. I'd leave the group if I could. I don't trust anyone left, in fact, I almost count on the fact "a unhinged Kenny" and "a moron Ben" are more trouble then they are worth and are going to fuck over Lee in someway.
It's Lee and Clem against the world from here-on in.