You know what? I'm sick of this.

edited October 2012 in The Walking Dead
All these people here who go around saying "all I care about is survival" and "I hope this guy dies and I don"t care" and other things like, just, fuck 'em.
On the TV show, Dale's death hit me so goddamn hard. "Losing our humanity, that's a choice". When Dale died, those words really drove home with me. So you know what? I'm nice to everyone. I save everyone. I care about everyone. and I'll be damned if I'm going to turn into fucking Shane Walsh(asshole) and drop a salt lick on a living man's head, kill a man after I broke his entire life, Force a man to shoot his own son, agree with a crazed bitch, or let Ben die because of fucking goddamn Kenny. I'm sick of Kenny. Ben does not deserve to die. And I'll kill off every walker in America before I let Doug die for nothing. I'm done with this "Survival of the fittest" shit. We keep our humanity.

Comments

  • edited October 2012
    If you're willing to kill another man to preserve your humanity, do you have any humanity left to preserve?

    What if Kenny was choking Ben to death, and the only option would be to kill Kenny to save Ben's life. What would you do?
  • edited October 2012
    I didn't think that forcing Kenny to kill duck was an anti-humane action. Given the situation, the act was more like euthanasia; Kenny gets to be the one who sends Duck off to peace. <3

    Also I thought Lilly just needed compassion. She lost her mother, father and consequently became mentally unstable and untrustworthy of group members. She just needed support for the tough time. :c

    I guess it's all about perspective! :D
  • edited October 2012
    Wow. I guess it really bothers the OP that other people see things in a way that they don't. That is sort of what makes the world go around...people with differing perspectives.

    There is no humanity when you are dead. Because you cease to BE. Surviving equals humanity and humanity is evolutionary based on the set of circumstances the human or group is living in.

    If there were no survival of the fittest, it is more than likely that YOU wouldn't be here now.
  • edited October 2012
    In a zombie apocalypse i say Survival at all costs, Your "Humanity" doesn't really help you
  • edited October 2012
    LadyJ wrote: »
    Wow. I guess it really bothers the OP that other people see things in a way that they don't. That is sort of what makes the world go around...people with differing perspectives.

    There is no humanity when you are dead. Because you cease to BE. Surviving equals humanity and humanity is evolutionary based on the set of circumstances the human or group is living in.

    If there were no survival of the fittest, it is more than likely that YOU wouldn't be here now.

    Yeah, you got a point there, however, I'm pretty sure it IS possible to sirvive keeping your humanity. OP, I applaud you.
  • edited October 2012
    In a zombie apocalypse i say Survival at all costs, Your "Humanity" doesn't really help you

    Odd, you really sound like Lilly, surviving over everything else :p
  • edited October 2012
    Enjoy your "humanity" while you have it then because this is one series where those who don't adapt don't last long. Ben might not deserve to die but he doesn't deserve to be part of the group when he's indirectly responsible for 3 deaths in Ep. 3, another death in Ep. 4, abandoning Clem at the start of Ep. 4, and endangering the group numerous times. Crawford took things to an extreme, but the opposite end of sparing the St. John brothers when they can still come back for revenge, or keeping around a liability who harmed your group worse than the the walkers or St. Johns did isn't any better, IMO.
  • edited October 2012
    Demopan wrote: »
    All these people here who go around saying "all I care about is survival" and "I hope this guy dies and I don"t care" and other things like, just, fuck 'em.
    On the TV show, Dale's death hit me so goddamn hard. "Losing our humanity, that's a choice". When Dale died, those words really drove home with me. So you know what? I'm nice to everyone. I save everyone. I care about everyone. and I'll be damned if I'm going to turn into fucking Shane Walsh(asshole) and drop a salt lick on a living man's head, kill a man after I broke his entire life, Force a man to shoot his own son, agree with a crazed bitch, or let Ben die because of fucking goddamn Kenny. I'm sick of Kenny. Ben does not deserve to die. And I'll kill off every walker in America before I let Doug die for nothing. I'm done with this "Survival of the fittest" shit. We keep our humanity.

    Humanity isnt really part of human nature, if other people are doing it yeah, but if the majority says, humanity is wrong, they will follow (e.g. crawford)
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited October 2012
    I stood by Kenny until the meat locker. I killed the St. Johns. I put Duck down since no father should ever have to endure that. I've been honest to Clementine. {she's not stupid} I've fought hard for my team even Ben. I didn't let him die when I had the chance. Now That Son of A Bitch who has Clem is about to see what happens when you face down a Team and I'll know that when i'm gone Clem will be safe
  • edited October 2012
    Demopan wrote: »
    All these people here who go around saying "all I care about is survival" and "I hope this guy dies and I don"t care" and other things like, just, fuck 'em.
    On the TV show, Dale's death hit me so goddamn hard. "Losing our humanity, that's a choice". When Dale died, those words really drove home with me. So you know what? I'm nice to everyone. I save everyone. I care about everyone. and I'll be damned if I'm going to turn into fucking Shane Walsh(asshole) and drop a salt lick on a living man's head, kill a man after I broke his entire life, Force a man to shoot his own son, agree with a crazed bitch, or let Ben die because of fucking goddamn Kenny. I'm sick of Kenny. Ben does not deserve to die. And I'll kill off every walker in America before I let Doug die for nothing. I'm done with this "Survival of the fittest" shit. We keep our humanity.

    I get what your saying regarding Dale.. He was the moral fiber of the group and tried to maintain not only his humanity, but the rest of the group's as well.

    However, in the end, it really didnt serve him well.. Nor did Shane's losing his.
    How about Sophia? Proably the most sweet, innocent character.. She never did anyone harm. Walkers didnt care!

    Point is, the humanity thing is pointless! Walkers dont care how nice or mean you are, Bandit's and Cannibles, don't care.

    I think it's easy to argue over humanity when you really dont have the worries. Try waking up one day and find yourself in the middle of a ZA.. go through the same or similar things as the characters and see how long your humanity serves you!
  • edited October 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    I stood by Kenny until the meat locker. I killed the St. Johns. I put Duck down since no father should ever have to endure that. I've been honest to Clementine. {she's not stupid} I've fought hard for my team even Ben. I didn't let him die when I had the chance. Now That Son of A Bitch who has Clem is about to see what happens when you face down a Team and I'll know that when i'm gone Clem will be safe

    My playthrough looks similar to yours. Some people said that episode 4 was darker than episode 3, but for me, it was much more positive. Chuck died saving people, so kudos to him. He was an alright guy. Lee took charge, kept people alive when he could. He got a doctor for Omid, so even Omid gets a reprieve. Kenny was able to pull himself together to put down the zombie kid and work on the boat. At the end with people knowing Lee's bitten, they've pulled together to save Clem. Even Ben decided he's going to try again for her.

    Kenny stayed behind to work on the boat, which is great. There's someone working on the escape plan, and everyone else is going to get Clem back. (I'm actually a bit worried about people who take everyone, and leave no one behind to work on escape, but hopefully I'm wrong, and taking everyone is the "best" route.)

    Sure, everyone will probably die, but there's a lot of humanity left. So for the OP, the survival of the fittest people are already the walking dead. Don't join them.

    Team humanity to the end! And yes, humanity doesn't stop people from dying. It just means that there was a quality of life and satisfaction staying alive a bit longer, whereas the survival of the fittest people might as well just give up. (Look at Crawford. All survival of the fittest did was make them miserable before they died anyway.)
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited October 2012
    IndigoHawk wrote: »
    My playthrough looks similar to yours. Some people said that episode 4 was darker than episode 3, but for me, it was much more positive. Chuck died saving people, so kudos to him. He was an alright guy. Lee took charge, kept people alive when he could. He got a doctor for Omid, so even Omid gets a reprieve. Kenny was able to pull himself together to put down the zombie kid and work on the boat. At the end with people knowing Lee's bitten, they've pulled together to save Clem. Even Ben decided he's going to try again for her.

    Kenny stayed behind to work on the boat, which is great. There's someone working on the escape plan, and everyone else is going to get Clem back. (I'm actually a bit worried about people who take everyone, and leave no one behind to work on escape, but hopefully I'm wrong, and taking everyone is the "best" route.)

    Sure, everyone will probably die, but there's a lot of humanity left. So for the OP, the survival of the fittest people are already the walking dead. Don't join them.

    Team humanity to the end! And yes, humanity doesn't stop people from dying. It just means that there was a quality of life and satisfaction staying alive a bit longer, whereas the survival of the fittest people might as well just give up. (Look at Crawford. All survival of the fittest did was make them miserable before they died anyway.)

    There's room on my boat for you
  • edited October 2012
    Personally, I think that the ZA is the last time you need to worry about being "humane". The living HAVE to adapt. There is no choice. Those who can't stomach killing walkers, will get eaten.

    It is morals, ethics and societal norms that I think you guys are talking about...not humanity. The core of humanity is being human, living....or surviving...without that there is no such thing.

    Someone can go off and forget their manners and morals but that doesn't make them less human. Makes them deviant. BUT if the majority of the population shifts and deviance is the new norm......whole different problem.
  • edited October 2012
    We're all dead (wo)men walking anyway. The chances of any one of us getting out alive is abysmal. Even assuming there's an end to the infected areas, what happens when we go to a "clean" place (if there even is one in TWD universe)? One accident, one death from us that doesn't take care of the brain and it's all repeated again. If we're not "put down" or whisked away immediately.

    Let's face it, survival is a pipe dream for most people. I'll do my damnedest to make Clem that one exception...but when it comes to me, I'm not holding out hope. And if I'm going to die, I might as well die as someone I can be proud of.
  • edited October 2012
    If you just **adapt** to this new apocalyptic environment, you'll end up as the governor, maybe even worse. The walking dead is about how people would react when the world goes to hell, and how they must live fighting to keep their humanity/soul/morals intact, that's what I like about TWD.
  • edited October 2012
    In a zombie apocalypse i say Survival at all costs, Your "Humanity" doesn't really help you

    Look at Lilly, she lost her humanity and now no longer a part of the group and winds up
    with the governor
    .
  • edited October 2012
    Gman5852 wrote: »
    Look at Lilly, she lost her humanity and now no longer a part of the group and winds up
    with the governor
    .

    Lilly lost her humanity when kenny lost his.

    Don't ever mistake it any other way.
  • edited October 2012
    The only people with humanity anymore are Christa, Omid, and maybe Clem. Everyone else who has retained any semblance of humanity is dead. Kenny started losing his when he killed Larry and lost the rest with Kat and Duck dying. Lilly didn't seem to have ANY until after Larry died, but that was quickly lost when she murdered another member of the group.
  • edited October 2012
    I'm a fairly pragmatic person.... I think survival is important.... in fact the most important thing.

    But I also saved Ben.

    Survival's important, but so is your humanity. Otherwise, you're not really alive, blood pumping, sure, but... not human. It's possible to balance the two.
  • edited October 2012
    I agree that you can be a survivor and still have humanity. To say you would just discard it like a sack of rocks is a testament to me wanting to not be around you in a ZA.

    To become an animal that would kill, steal, rape and injure without a thought is what it would be like to lose that humanity aspect and you would be no better than a walker.

    Just to be clear on my position, humanity and survival are two different things. Humanity allows you to relate to, care for and feel for someone else, it doesn't mean you'd charge blindly into 30+ walkers to save one person who you don't know or otherwise make stupid choices that would compromise you or your group.
  • edited October 2012
    I try to keep my humanity when I can in this game, but if it looks like someone has to die for the good of the group they can kiss their ass goodbye. I won't let others be killed needlessly just so I can feel good about myself.
  • edited October 2012
    Demopan wrote: »
    All these people here who go around saying "all I care about is survival" and "I hope this guy dies and I don"t care" and other things like, just, fuck 'em.
    On the TV show, Dale's death hit me so goddamn hard. "Losing our humanity, that's a choice". When Dale died, those words really drove home with me. So you know what? I'm nice to everyone. I save everyone. I care about everyone. and I'll be damned if I'm going to turn into fucking Shane Walsh(asshole) and drop a salt lick on a living man's head, kill a man after I broke his entire life, Force a man to shoot his own son, agree with a crazed bitch, or let Ben die because of fucking goddamn Kenny. I'm sick of Kenny. Ben does not deserve to die. And I'll kill off every walker in America before I let Doug die for nothing. I'm done with this "Survival of the fittest" shit. We keep our humanity.

    There you go.
  • edited October 2012
    Motordead wrote: »
    If you're willing to kill another man to preserve your humanity, do you have any humanity left to preserve?

    What if Kenny was choking Ben to death, and the only option would be to kill Kenny to save Ben's life. What would you do?

    Honestly, I would have let Kenny do it. Reason why? Because Ben really did kill Kenny's family. In fact Ben has nearly gotten the group killed several times, and Ben isn't learning very fast. That kind of endless stupidity cannot continue forever because you can't watch Ben 24/7 to make sure he doesn't do something to get everyone killed. If he doesn't smarten up on the quick, he needs to be cut loose.

    A mistake here and there, sure. But all of Ben's mistakes have been life or death. You have to think about it in different terms. You have to think about how every decision might hurt or kill someone. Each decision needs to be weighed. There is no room for carelessness. And Clementine has more smarts than Ben does. Ben is an idiot.

    A strong group is necessary, you need to rely on everyone doing their job. That takes trust. Ben weakens the group. It's one thing to protect the group from outside elements. It's another to try and protect from both outside and inside elements. You are fighting two battles, and the inside element (Ben) is much more damaging because it further weakens the group. Every time the group dynamic breaks down into arguing, the group is vulnerable and exposed.


    That said my Lee saved him, because that's who he is.
  • edited October 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    I try to keep my humanity when I can in this game, but if it looks like someone has to die for the good of the group they can kiss their ass goodbye. I won't let others be killed needlessly just so I can feel good about myself.

    And you shouldn't.

    You have to pick and choose.

    This is why, for me, Ben got to live and that girl in Macon (ep 3) got to be a distraction.

    Save the ones you can, and don't cry over the ones you can't.
  • edited October 2012
    Again I need to voice my opinion that Ben did not directly kill Doug, Carly or katjja although his actions could have resulted in their deaths (most profoundly Carly's death).

    If that group assualted us earlier if Ben wasn't giving them supplies, it all could have played out very similar minus Carly's death IMO.

    Of course one always picks the welfare of the whole over the individual in most survival situations but you cannot lose your humanity or you already lost since that is what separates us from the beasts and the walkers.
  • edited October 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    I try to keep my humanity when I can in this game, but if it looks like someone has to die for the good of the group they can kiss their ass goodbye. I won't let others be killed needlessly just so I can feel good about myself.
    DreadMagus wrote: »
    And you shouldn't.

    You have to pick and choose.

    This is why, for me, Ben got to live and that girl in Macon (ep 3) got to be a distraction.

    Save the ones you can, and don't cry over the ones you can't.
    I desperately tried to stay morally correct on all the episodes of my canon game(not replaying choices ever) and still it became more and more difficult to achieve. I defended Duck, saved Carley (but actually only because I was overwhelmed and accidentally clicked on her purse - so yeah, TTG had me there for the first time already), I didn't steal from the car, because I personally was sure we could do without it, I killed Danny out of anger, I beat up Andy to his near death.

    I always felt like doing the right thing, but the choices started to blur... beating someone to his near death with my bare hands, killing someone trapped in a bear trap in cold blood? Where am I heading... and I really asked myself.

    I jumped at Chuck for telling me how to deal with Clem, even though he was right and beat the crap out of Kenny for being in denial about Duck's imminent death. I became more and more temperamental and felt caught at more and more occasions.

    Episode 4 now was a different thing. I had accepted the impossibilties to save others, I was shown just how little I was able to teach that little girl, given that I was going by our RL society... and suddenly every decision I made felt wrong.

    And then came Ben... dangeling on Lee's wrist... I decided I will not change who I was, and won't submit to what my Lee has become. I pulled him up... and now - it feels wrong.

    In the end there was Kenny, saying he was unable to come, wanting me to beg. That's when I finally snapped, telling him to fuck off! The first decision in a long time that felt good!

    Choices might not matter to everyone on these forums... for me they do. A great game! :)
  • edited October 2012
    You're definitely right there. They've made a masterpiece.

    I've read it's getting a disc once the last episode is out... if it's true, I'm definitely getting it.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited October 2012
    DreadMagus wrote: »
    You're definitely right there. They've made a masterpiece.

    I've read it's getting a disc once the last episode is out... if it's true, I'm definitely getting it.

    they ought to include more then just the five episodes on the disc like commentarys or alternate endings or a cutscene film viewer based on your decisions
  • edited October 2012
    That would rock.
  • edited October 2012
    Motordead wrote: »
    If you're willing to kill another man to preserve your humanity, do you have any humanity left to preserve?

    What if Kenny was choking Ben to death, and the only option would be to kill Kenny to save Ben's life. What would you do?
    The first question is badly framed. Moral situations are rarely paradoxical, and often require a fair amount of detail.

    As ofr the second, it's an unlikely scenario. Am I behind an unclimable fence through which I can shoot? Is it certain Ben is dying? How clear is Ben's culupability for the deaths he feels guilt over?

    Have I told Ben how much danger he's putting himself in by telling Kenny what he did (and what was that, exactly?)? If yes, then he's taking responsibility for his actions, and by killing Kenny here I'd be supporting Ben's decsision to tell him, something I had previously and completely opposed.

    In TWD, the game, we're living in a world where it can be the height of irresponsibility and complicity in murder not to execute another human being. It may be right to let Ben accept the consequences of his decision to tell Kenny. After all, Ben presumably wants to be punished. He wanted me to drop him during our narrow escape, but DIDN'T HAVE THE GUTS to simply jump down into the pack of walkers. He's the kind of guy who commits suicide by cop, letting some poor bastard take the guilt for his death because he doesn't have the courage of his own convictions.

    If he simply wants to come clean, why not leave Kenny a letter of confession to find after Ben has left the group? It's clear Ben wants to be punished. Why should I interfere at this point? If I kill Kenny, talk about enabling a drama queen!
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