Getting into game industry
Hello, I just wanted to inquire how did you people end up into game
industry? I'm intrested about game developing / programming, especially games like Sam & Max have made big impression on me. And I
would like to know what should I study / do to get programming that kind of
games?
industry? I'm intrested about game developing / programming, especially games like Sam & Max have made big impression on me. And I
would like to know what should I study / do to get programming that kind of
games?
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
Let's just say, you could have picked something better as your first post.
*runs away before the fire starts*
If you want to learn to program professionally, a computer science degree is always nice.
1. Learn to program.
How you'll achieve this is very much down to how you learn: some people have success inhaling books, others need to go to school / university and have someone talk at them five days a week. For games programming, learn C++. If you're completely new to programming, you may want to learn C as a starting point.
2. Get some experience.
If you're on a course and have the opportunity to do projects, pick game-related ones whenever you can. If your course gives you the opportunity to go on a placement, use all leverage possible to get one at a games company. This can be anything from pulling strings / twisting people's arms to blanket-spamming everyone you can find on gamedevmap.
If you're not going the education-system route, get coding. Write your own game using one of the zillions of free engines floating around. (Tutorials don't count!) Learn OpenGL, if graphics is your thing. If you're more interested in AI, make sure you can write an A* pathfinder in your sleep. Do coding work for a mod. If you turn up to an interview with some solid games programming experience to show off / talk about, you'll have a significant advantage over the hordes of naiive kids with lots of eagerness and little actual knowledge of the real world.
And...that's it. As with getting into any industry at all, two things count: skills and experience. (Of course, an actual passion for the job helps, too - but that's pretty easy to find in the games industry
(Disclaimer: I don't work for Telltale - I did a placement as part of my Uni course, and my name's on the credits of The Simpsons Game from my time on placement. I have a job offer waiting for me once I graduate
:eek: Lucky! I want my name in a game's credits!
Oh yeah... Bright Side Of The Moon... but who plays adventure games these days?
I told him to ask here. It seemed like a better place to answer the question than through email.
Smuugy, I'll ping some of the designers and ask them to come chime in.
Wait a minute.... who stopped deleting Brendan's work?!
Get yourself a full education and earn a complete degree. I would advise against technical schools because for someone your age these programs tend to concentrate too much on a single discipline. Better to first get a broader education thereby opening your possible career opportunities before you specialize and strengthen which ever skill set you choose. Computer Science/Programming if you want to develop game engines, build tools, etc. A solid art education if you want to create art assets such as concepts, storyboards, modeling, animation, texturing, etc.
I started out in a computing degree, but after a year and a half of learning how to code compilers and operating systems, I decided that it wasn't necessarily the best path I could be taking.
Try to supplement your education with some film studies or new media classes. Also, internships are a great way to make contacts in the industry and get a lot of experience.
When it gets time to start applying for things, don't be afraid to apply for things a little out of your reach.
I just want to design concepts, people, places etc.. I have so many ideeers in my head as most do, but when I tell others my ideas they love them, tis how I know they arent shat.
So how can one get into the industry.. id say its 90% who you know and 10% luck/work.. after getting into the industry im sure those numbers change haha. And yes I did pull those numbers out of my behind.
I do understand the designers need to know code to some extent but to HAVE to know it for telltales position made it impossible to apply. Learn it? yep easy I could, but want to hell no. Would if it meant getting in the door though. Id even work for nothing forever until I prove myself.
As tom hall said......"make a bunch of crappy games, try a hl2 mod or something as such.. took me 30 games before I made on that stuck and now look at me!"
A real quote people!
While I have no graphic or programming skills, I do possess mad administrative skills.
6 months later, I am working for Telltale in an admin position, and am very glad to be here!
I think that determination and optimism will go a long way towards getting started in any career. You just have to believe, and keep trying!
Some really simple 2D game would be a better goal.
To start programming i think Java is a better choice than ANSI C or C++ because there is a lot of stuff you don't need to worry about which leads to less frustration, especially when you teach yourself. Switching from Java to C++ later is not too complicated.
Once you have understood the basics of procedural programming you can start learning Object Oriented Programming and afterwards Object Oriented Design. But for everything Object Oriented i really recommend taking lectures because it can get quite confusing in the beginning and you need feedback to know if what you're doing is good practice.
I think that's a reasonable technical base from which you can go on and learn game programming specific techniques.
But be warned. It will take several years and a lot of ambition and you need to be able to handle frustration well.
And the worst: Afterwards almost no one understands how much work you had.
This summer i showed a little C++ OpenGL Project to a friend and he said i could have used a halflife level editor as well to get that result. Sure i was pissed, because it is something completely different to do that from scratch and you can't really explain the complexity behind it to someone who's not programming.
It was a Hotel room in which you could move around with 3D Collision Detection and a some Interaction. It involves a lot of 3 dimensional thinking and math for something that looks just like an early 3D shooter.
then try to get an internship somewhere,
that's pretty much what i did,
It's awesome! We do a lot of different stuff now in the beginning (sound effects, photo, websites etc) but will later focus more on either Graphic or programing.
The hard thing is that I have no idea what to choose, on one hand I love animation, and to make my own characters move is so cool, on the other hand I kinda suck pretty bad at drawing and modeling.
I think math is pretty fun, and I can say that I have quite a good sense for logic, but I find to just program stuffs a bit boring.
I've been on and off about which of those two I like most a long while now, but doing my own little games made me realize I'm more interested in the story, and designing the whole thing.
I guess I want to do everything myself, I want everything in my games to be exactly as I see them... I will never make it in this business, will I?
The common misconception I see are individuals who have this line of thought:
1) I like video games.
2) I'd like to play video games all day.
3) I am perfect for a job in video games!
Later...
4) Man, I didn't think this had this much work involved..
Just because you love video games doesn't mean you'll enjoy making them. I've seen quite a few people who only hold on to this belief and end up making some really bad choices for themselves. Not trying to discourage you from pursuing this career, but this is industry is harder to work for than almost all jobs in entertainment.
The other misconception is thinking programming will make you the best designer of all time. This comes from the 70's and 80's where a title was built from the ground up by one or two individuals. Clearly not the case now as you need to focus on more specific rolls in game production. "I want to make games" doesn't actually mean anything. Are you leaning to do more of the art side of things? Writing? Only coding?
This isn't to say that you have to stick to only one thing, but try to figure out what kinds of work you want to do in relationship to the game industry. From there, start formulating your options for that specific field and make your own education that accomplishes your goals.
Thanks for all the good answers they have cleared my visions quite a lot. You are the best.Cheers for the people in the telltale games forum.
Both of these concepts are extremely difficult to figure out for yourself and may take years.
But don't be discouraged! The best thing to do right now is dabble in various fields. Figure out what draws you and what doesn't. Eventually you'll lean to a few things that you really take a liking too, then formulate a solid curriculum plan from that.
- The Language of New Media by Lev Manovich
- The New Media Reader edited by Noah Wardrip-Fruin & Nick Montfort
- The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven L. Kent
These books cover all the upper-level theory and history that comprised the majority of book-based learning with my degree.As for class work, the New Media program at Emerson focuses on a more art installation based focus. I was actually the only one seriously interested in computer/video games specifically, but the art focus allowed me to focus more on the theory and aesthetics rather than a pure tools based education.
I also made a thesis, Antidote. Live-action video with a bit of CGI. Course, it's only for disk as I can't afford the large bandwidth, and it was never complete due to a host of production issues. But having something DONE that showcased all my background in both technical and creative aspects of interactive storytelling got me where I am today.
*raises hand*
I don't work in game design but I think Seg has some great advice for any career in general. Pay attention to those things that give you that spark but don't feel wedded to a certain path either. There is no crime in changing your mind.
Specific rolls? I'm fine with anything, personally, as long as it's freshly baked. Mmm...
But that aside, you're right that programming alone does not make a good game designer; however, I believe that having programming skills, among other things, is a very helpful asset to have as a game designer. Even if you never touch A* search algorithms and the like again, having that basic knowledge as to how computers work and what you can do with them really goes a long way in inspiring one to create innovative yet workable game designs.
Generally speaking, a good game designer's knowledge should be broad, rather than narrow. Your best inspiration will come from your own life experience, so make sure you live an interesting one. In other words, don't just sit around and play games all day, unless you want the games that you make to be hackneyed clones of what's already out there. Goodness knows we have enough of those as it is...
Of course, my only notable design credentials are as an amateur working solo for the most part (though I've gotten paid to program things), and I'm still quite young and haven't really racked up that much in the life experience department. So take my thoughts as you will.
P.S. I'm getting a degree in computer science, which I hope to complete in a few short months. I'll keep you posted if I end up doing anything CS-related as a career...
i for my part have an engineering degree in cs with a focus on media, i don't know what the official english title is, and might be a good 3D enviroment artist.
i have taken a few courses in 3D modeling and animation and did some work during my internship, but i'm far from being well experienced.
how can i learn more in this field without having an employer that provides the machinery? there isn't really a legal way to get, let's say, a maya license and and appropriate workstation to do so.
I would not worry too much about these wishlists. Just apply for the job when you think you can do what the company needs and see what happens in the interview.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=7639525
Also, the secret to gaining experience to satisfy job requirements? Internships!
I learned in this sequence: Pascal, ANSI C, Java, C++
As i stated earlier, in my opinion Java is much easier to start with than C++.
You don't need to worry about doing something useless, because once you have understood the basic concepts you can quite easily transfer your knowledge to C++ and learn the stuff that drives beginners crazy.
In my study path we started with Java and it was a matter of just 3 Months to switch to C++.
Another advantage of Java is that the API provides classes for a lot of interesting stuff such as sound, graphics and GUI, all well documented in the same way.
For C++ you have to look for third party solutions.
Therefore once you know your way around in the Java API you can use all it has to offer.
Since you are set on entertainment programming, look for schools that have strong connections with their CS departments and various art based departments. Theatre, traditional art, video/film, audio, etc. Having a place to go and ask for art or voice assets is a boon!
The best student projects are ones that work as teams!!!
Seriously, it's extremely hard to get a good set of students to work together on a project, but the rewards of a good team project will always follow you positively. Some people think that they look better if they did everything in their project. As someone who created his thesis mostly alone, I can tell you that not having a team for all aspects of the production only hurts the project. It's not just about personal achievement. It's about how you can contribute and work with others to accomplish a project.
Don't shut out other team projects thinking that you're more attractive that you made everything yourself.
:eek:that's exactly what i need. last time i looked i only found a student version of softimage. thanks.
do internships still work in the us? 'cause here they usually don't. a lot of companies, especially in the media section, are keeping themselves alive buy abusing interns on a regular basis. bad or no payment, no learning opportunities, stupid tasks, working full time and afterwards they just hire the next one.
... which reminds me of another point to make. Languages come and go. Tools will change. Knowing the basics of your field that are agnostic of specific tool sets is key.
So it's not just about learning how to use the old coffee maker, but taking away the basics about coffee making and being able to apply that knowledge into using the new coffee maker.
I know there are a few people here who need coffee maker lessons. They try to use a half pound of coffee per pot. Blech.
I know I am learning a ton, and I am just the admin guy. I have to agree, though, that everyone here at Telltale has been very friendly and appreciative of what I do contribute.
*obligatory
If you like animation you don’t "need" a title or degree, most of the best animators learned animation on their free time, it just takes motivaton and practice.
If you like the scripting/programming side then you should consider making a small mod of a game, (like a mod for Half life 2, Unreal tournament, Dungeon Siege, etc) to see if that is your thing.
OH, There is another application that lets you make adventure games like Monkey Island 3 but with better graphics called Visionaire and you don’t need to code a thing since it is artist friendly
I'd apply to Telltale if I had the scripting experience they're looking for since adventure is one of the genres I have enjoyed before. But if things don't take off, I'll give making flash games as an indie creator a shot for a while and see if I can get at least the same pay as flipping burgers.