Anyone else feel like the writer for Episode 5 ignored everything set up in Ep 4?
Having digested the ending for a few days, I'm starting to realize a few issues I've had with the ending, and a good number of them seem to likely stem from the fact that episodes 4 and 5 have different writers.
1. Ben's treatment
For those who saved Ben in Episode 4, I feel like the writer for Episode 5 completely missed what the one for Episode 4 had been building up for the character. After his series of ****-ups I expected there to be some redeeming moment (or hell, even just an attempt at one). Instead, all we got was Ben falling to his death and providing no closure for his character arc.
2. Kenny's treatment
Related to the above. This probably doesn't come into play with the Christa version, but it makes absolutely no sense from what we've learned about Kenny in the previous episodes for him to just randomly flip on his opinion of Ben so much that he would just sacrifice himself for absolutely no reason. Honestly, he could have just shot Ben much sooner and escaped just fine, but I guess the writer felt that an uncharacteristic suicide was in order.
3. Omid and Chrsta's fate.
This was also pretty bad. No matter what you tell the two of them, the simply disappear without an explanation. Clem doesn't find them and they certainly don't find you before you turn. What the hell was the point of the option then telling them what they should do? Was it really that hard for Telltale to make just 3 scenes depending on what you tell them to do that shows their fate? Hell, for instance, if you tell them to find the boat it could cut to a scene where they get attacked and killed by a horde near the harbor. If you tell them to wait for Clem it could show them meet up, or fail to meet up even. To simply have them disappear forever without any explanation is poor closure and poor writing.
4. Clem's Parents.
This was by far the worst handled segment of the entire series. For all the build-up towards finding her parents, all we got out of it was a 10 second segment where Lee falls unconscious and Clem almost freaks out. For something they've been building up since Episode 1, the essential hand wave of "hey here they are" and instant removal was simply insulting. I honestly can't believe they thought this part was going to be well received. Another chance at actually solidifying a character arc that they simple dropped the ball on.
Not to mention the fact that it is simply illogical that Clem would see her parents right next to each other. I mean really, what kind of mega coincidence is that?
Well, those are my main gripes with Episode 5. On a positive note, I found the Lee and Clem final scene to be rather well done, as I did the arm removal scene. The Part where Christa just starts cutting before I could even finish my response was both an oh **** moment and one that made me laugh.
1. Ben's treatment
For those who saved Ben in Episode 4, I feel like the writer for Episode 5 completely missed what the one for Episode 4 had been building up for the character. After his series of ****-ups I expected there to be some redeeming moment (or hell, even just an attempt at one). Instead, all we got was Ben falling to his death and providing no closure for his character arc.
2. Kenny's treatment
Related to the above. This probably doesn't come into play with the Christa version, but it makes absolutely no sense from what we've learned about Kenny in the previous episodes for him to just randomly flip on his opinion of Ben so much that he would just sacrifice himself for absolutely no reason. Honestly, he could have just shot Ben much sooner and escaped just fine, but I guess the writer felt that an uncharacteristic suicide was in order.
3. Omid and Chrsta's fate.
This was also pretty bad. No matter what you tell the two of them, the simply disappear without an explanation. Clem doesn't find them and they certainly don't find you before you turn. What the hell was the point of the option then telling them what they should do? Was it really that hard for Telltale to make just 3 scenes depending on what you tell them to do that shows their fate? Hell, for instance, if you tell them to find the boat it could cut to a scene where they get attacked and killed by a horde near the harbor. If you tell them to wait for Clem it could show them meet up, or fail to meet up even. To simply have them disappear forever without any explanation is poor closure and poor writing.
4. Clem's Parents.
This was by far the worst handled segment of the entire series. For all the build-up towards finding her parents, all we got out of it was a 10 second segment where Lee falls unconscious and Clem almost freaks out. For something they've been building up since Episode 1, the essential hand wave of "hey here they are" and instant removal was simply insulting. I honestly can't believe they thought this part was going to be well received. Another chance at actually solidifying a character arc that they simple dropped the ball on.
Not to mention the fact that it is simply illogical that Clem would see her parents right next to each other. I mean really, what kind of mega coincidence is that?
Well, those are my main gripes with Episode 5. On a positive note, I found the Lee and Clem final scene to be rather well done, as I did the arm removal scene. The Part where Christa just starts cutting before I could even finish my response was both an oh **** moment and one that made me laugh.
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Comments
I admit that TTG had their hands full bringing such a powerful story together, but this would have been one moment that I feel would have added to the finale in a very positive way. Nevertheless, it still has my vote for game of the year!
I don't see how you can spend 2-3 episodes building up the guy on the radio and the boat only to make the actual climax so short and anti-climactic. Episode 5 completely ruined the series for me. I thought that the choices I made in the previous Episodes would finally affect something in the game, but they didn't. I also expected the finale to be very tense, but it was lackluster and borderline boring.
For all of the setup for a big finale, they sure dropped the ball.
And enough with the "It's a Zombie Apacolypse, this is what would happen." excuse. Using that excuse, it would have been perfectly acceptable to have Lee accidentally fall off the bridge with the tanker on it to his death and have the game end there....
"I for one, thought it was masterful, you just don't understand the literary genius of TellTale, they can do no wrong. HERESY HERESY!" - Typical Poster
"It's the Walking Dead." - Typical Poster.
"You just mad Lee died." - Typical Poster.
I agree with most of your points. The reason it ended so badly was because it was rushed. Maybe deadlines, but the writers wrote themselves in a corner when Lee got bit and when Clementine was kidnapped. That really put restrains on them. The game was linear before, but at least previous episodes gave you the feeling of something larger.
If you thought that it gave you a feeling of something larger that you have greatly misunderstood the whole story. It was never about something larger.
Not really. You clearly don't know what I mean by larger. It gave me the feel of a world gone to hell. The opening car ride where you see police head into the city gives the game a much grander feel. You travel, meet new characters, and experience the struggle to survive in a broken society for the first 4 episodes. Yes, they were linear, but they didn't feel that way. Episode 5 felt confined and linear and lost a critical tone in the series.
You're allowed to dislike the game, or the ending. But this crap about "typical Telltale fans" is irritating and counterproductive. I liked the game and think the company has a good grasp of narrative structure. I liked the ending, which had been foreshadowed throughout the previous episodes, and see absolutely zero evidence that the game was rushed in any capacity. Does that make me a fanboy?
If it doesn't apply to you, why are you offended? I'm a TellTale fan and I fit none of those stereotypical descriptions I listed as a joke. I'm not ripping on fans, I'm ripping on those forum posters who head to every thread with criticism of the game doing exactly what you said, blindly defending TellTale. There's a lot of them, dude.
Confined and linear are not tones.
I'm not offended, per se. Just annoyed. I've been seeing a lot of these "the Telltale fanboys will" posts lately, and I personally think it's an unfair characterization.
You're obviously right that it happens on both sides, though, but I tend to detect more of an undercurrent of nastiness with those who are critical of the game. Maybe it's just my interpretation of their posts, maybe not.
I hate when people use the word "Fanboy" Big whoop i liked it so did about 99.9999% of people on this forums
I agree with some points and strongly disagree with others;
1/ I personally think some big redemption would have been very cliched. Ben was a realistic flawed character, and his redemption was bravely joining the rescue team. He fell and died before anything more meaningful could happen, it felt fresh as I was expecting some eye rolling redemption.
2/ Yeah fair point, although I guess Kenny has had some time to calm down a little and may be seeing things more clearly. It's also worth noting he may have given up to some extent and was looking for a good reason to get himself killed, however it happened.
3/ Omid and Christa were separated from Lee so the story could end with Lee and Clem. I thought that was fitting personally. Finding them again when the streets were full of walkers would be tough, and Lee was dying I also felt that Clem becoming self reliant was more satisfying than seeing her merely passed to another guardian.
4/ Yeah...... I kind of agree with this. Would have been better if they were walkers in the Marsh House or better yet if you replaced the earlier suicide couple with Clem's parents. It was a ridiculous coincidence they were walking down the street for Clem to spot them
I can see how having a more emotional 'reunion' with Clem's could be expected, but on the other hand, the scene demonstrates how Clem has matured and can look past her emotions to tend to the people still alive. Instead of getting torn up about her parents, she was able to overcome her grief and save Lee from the herd. That's what I got from the scene in any case.
If Kirkman's zombies work the same as Romero's, then the zombies tend to roam towards familiar places from their previous lives (from the original Dawn of the Dead movie). So that might explain what they were doing around the Marsh House when they supposedly died at the hospital. That's just a theory though, since that topic hasn't come up in the comics from what I can recall.
Those negative people who are rude make people who have valid issues with the game (like myself) look like we're all just nitpicking. I feel you, though. I'll stop with the posts.
On a positive note, you just restored my hope that a normal conversation can be had on these forums. Well done, dude.
Sorry you didn't dig the ending though.
That said, the term ''Fanboy'' has really lost touch with it's original meaning. A fanboy is someone who, regardless of the constructive literary evidence, prefer to argue with irrational logic and and tend to have circular endless arguments without reason.
I don't think a single person here will argue against the fact that the episode should have been longer to hash out character story archs better, and I feel like that pretty much sums up all your issues with the game.
You just completely validated Doctanian's typical telltale fanboy analysis.
I say that I don't like the game, and you call me narrow-minded....fanboy much? And please tell me how expecting choice to affect more than just dialog is narrow minded. The definition of a narrow view is only expecting very little in the scope of all things possible...so how would me expecting more be narrow?
Why do you and so many other people feel the need to reply to every negative criticism of the game and try to tell that person that they're wrong? I'll never understand the fanboy syndrome. You like the game...awesome. Why do you get so upset when other people don't? Which you obviously are if you take the time to reply to individual posts and throw out insults.
It's perfectly justified. Pick any thread that doesn't just say "OMG BEST GAME EVA!!" and has real criticism of the game. Instead of a discussion about concerns brought up, you'll find people blindly defending the game. Instead of talking about possible issues, they'll claim that the people who are doing the criticism just don't know what they're talking about.
In this thread alone there are multiple examples of this. I said that I disappointed that the choices in this game don't change the story at all. A few posts later someone replies and says that my definition of "choice" is wrong.....
Why do they care so much that everyone like the game? Posting criticisms of certain parts of a game makes the industry as a whole better. Developers see the complaints and work to solve them.
People saying "OMG best game ever" and attempting to silence anyone with a complaint does nothing to improve gaming. It makes it stale. It's why the Wii was born....
You weren't disappointed at all in the length? Every other episode was almost twice as long, so it was logical to assume that the finale would at least be as long if not longer. It should have been half the price.
One sided discussion is not healthy. If you don't like people replying to your post, then there don't post. Otherwise don't complain when people counter you.
i don't know how long the episode was, it was only the forums that informed me that episode 5 was shorter, so the length of the episode didn't even register as a factor of my enjoyment of the episode
Where did I say that I didn't like people replying? I love discussing it. It's pretty obvious that they have a problem with someone disliking the game. I've expressed my criticism with examples from the industry and the game. Instead of them doing the same to counter my point, many have said that I just didn't get it and question my intelligence and/or my concept of "art".
lol
I don't know what the writers thought but to me it was like... This thing is so ordinary now in their world. People dying left and right... Major poop is hitting the fan at a constant flow.
Personally I'm glad they don't go over the top with everything like in a regular action adventure movie/game.
I would have loved to have talked to Ed or Dianna.
Mainly because I wanted to see the reaction of, "Hey, I'm a convicted felon, hanging out with your 9 year old daughter."
"Oh hey, strange man with our daughter. Glad you cared for her for nearly four months and brought her here to us. We were going to come back home and look for our only child, but it was just so dang comfy here in Savannah. The grunts of the dead were like lullaby's!"
I agree it was a little clumsy just to stumble upon their walker corpses outside the Marsh House, but I thought it was a pretty good scene. It finally gave Clementine the closure she needed on seeing that her parents were truly gone, and really was amplified when she lost Lee shortly after that.
I truly did enjoy the episode and loved the game, but I can't really argue on the other points. Endings are hard, and there will always be plot holes and unfilled promises/parts of the story. I'm just glad that I got a satisfying ending that I can tie together with the rest of the game, but I understand that others weren't as happy with it.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with you on this one.
CrazyandProud is absolutely right. The Walking Dead has never been abound something larger. You expect that people will have their closures, emotional arcs and purpose... well I'm sorry but this is not what happens in The Walking Dead. That's why the fans like it.
It is much like real life you know. Except for the zombies.
We are rarely heroes, we most often do not have meaningful endings and whatever.
1. Ben was build up for something more? Yes, he was. If it was a standard game he would have had a super heroic and meaningful death. I'm kinda glad he didn't. It's not the ending we should look to, it's the path.
Ben stood up to Kenny, personally that's enough for me.
2.Kenny's treatment - I agree that here I had my doubts as well. I guess it was just the resources and the pressure but had I had the option for example, I would never let Kenny join us again after he got beaten by Vernon and his group. I was so happy to be over with Kenny in ep. 4 and they kinda shoved him back at me, again. Well, you can't have everything.
3.Omid and Chrsta's fate - that was expected as well. Had they found Clem and lived happily ever after, that would've been a cheesy letdown.
4. Clem's parents - yeah, we all expected something bigger and that's the point of the Walking Dead. We expect a lot of things, but that's not how life/TWD works. Who knows, maybe Clem went to put them out of their misery after she left/shot Lee. Maybe she had a closure. We are Lee, we are dead and it is only natural that we wouldn't know what happens. Here comes the power of imagination.
The only thing that I really disapprove is the final cutscene. I was really happy that the game ended when Clem shot me. In life you don't usually get to see what happens with your loved ones after you die (I guess). I was really happy with the ending until I found out that there is a cutscene after the credits. It didn't feel real and I still fail to grasp the point of it. If its idea is to be a cliffhanger, well I hope this is the last I see of those characters, so I don't really care. It kinda also shows that Omid and Christa didn't find Clem which kinda kills some of the scenarios in my imagination.
It's pretty obvious that they are building up for the second season.
Why do those people who have an opposing opinion presume to have some higher intelligence by condescendingly calling everyone else a "fanboy"? Posting on a public forum is an invitation for debate. If you're looking for a pat on the back with no discussion, post a blog.
Yeah, but I don't think that season 2 will work if we have to meet or play with any of the characters from season 1.
Maybe a teenage Clem (at least 16-17 years old) could work but I'm not sure that Kirkman would allow them to make such a time jump.
I would've definitely loved it more if the death of Lee was the very last scene.
Cyreen, I never expected that a day would come when I would agree with something you've said. Who knew :P
It will probably be new characters. We won't play as a character with an established personality. I think there is defiantly still more room for more growth from Clementine.
There are so many loose threads that never get tied up. Is Kenny really dead? What happens to Vernon and his group? What happens to Molly? What about Omid and Christa? Do they ever find Clementine? ...My ultimate hope for these is that Season 2 will tie in with the choices of Season 1, and we'll get to see what happens to these people. ...Although that may be over a year from now; the wait is so agonizing...
If it is new characters then what happened to Omid and Christa? Why keep past game saves? I'd like to see some kind of explanation as to what happened with Omid and Christa.
Insecurity in their opinion.