I don't really hate people who don't intent to do anything bad. The only character I actually hated was the stalker. I wanted to slice him up before we even started talking.
He left Clementine to die. There is no fucking excusing that. A hobo who had only know her for two days gave his life for that little girl.
He left Clementine to die. There is no fucking excusing that. A hobo who had only know her for two days gave his life for that little girl.
While I do agree it's a dick move to leave a little girl behind, I do understand why that happened. Heck, I'd probably do the same and feel like a complete piece of shit for doing it. That's why I think I'm not really suited for a Z.A. . And since Ben is scared shitless of walkers (I'd be, too), he probably froze at the sight of them so damn close to him. I bet the only thing he could think of at that moment was "JUST FUCKING RUN FOR YOUR LIFE DUDE!!!" and that's what he did. What I find interesting is that he had a gun in his hand and he didn't use it. It's funny how Ben never uses a gun, he doesn't even try to shoot
While I do agree it's a dick move to leave a little girl behind, I do understand why that happened. Heck, I'd probably do the same and feel like a complete piece of shit for doing it. That's why I think I'm not really suited for a Z.A. . And since Ben is scared shitless of walkers (I'd be, too), he probably froze at the sight of them so damn close to him. I bet the only thing he could think of at that moment was "JUST FUCKING RUN FOR YOUR LIFE DUDE!!!" and that's what he did. What I find interesting is that he had a gun in his hand and he didn't use it. It's funny how Ben never uses a gun, he doesn't even try to shoot
He didn't show the faintest signs of remorse. He said a "yeah, I know" as a cheap apology. If he really cared and felt that bad, he would've kept an eye on Clementine later in Episode 4 and he couldn't even do that.
I don't think I could run away from a little kid. I'd feel suicidal after that. Imagine if it was any other character that did that, the hate would be astonishing, but because it's Ben, he gets a pass.
Then he has the audacity to claim he had a little sister and never got to see them before the outbreak. Yet, you leave a little girl who's old enough to be your sister and treats you like an older brother out to die. And later, you let her wander OUT OF THE MANSION AND ONTO THE STREETS.
has anyone even noticed what he said:
"FUCK YOU KENNY"
"I am so,so,SO sorry about katjaa and duck, I AM. and I know i fucked up, BUT stop pushing me around and STOP wishing I was dead.
"NO!,you know how they died, you've said GOODBYE, I never got to see my family, my little sister...do you get that?your family is gone but at least you had them to lose."
"I never made it home. They could be alive or dead or walkers or WORSE and I don't know. SO GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!"
He didn't show the faintest signs of remorse. He said a "yeah, I know" as a cheap apology. If he really cared and felt that bad, he would've kept an eye on Clementine later in Episode 4 and he couldn't even do that.
I don't think I could run away from a little kid. I'd feel suicidal after that. Imagine if it was any other character that did that, the hate would be astonishing, but because it's Ben, he gets a pass.
Then he has the audacity to claim he had a little sister and never got to see them before the outbreak. Yet, you leave a little girl who's old enough to be your sister and treats you like an older brother out to die. And later, you let her wander OUT OF THE MANSION AND ONTO THE STREETS.
Now, hold on. He ran away because he wasn't thinking. He obviously did care. I suppose you were never a teenager yourself. Ben did keep an eye on Clem, until a wounded man needed help. Ben wasn't justified in leaving Clem, but he was justified in helping a man who couldn't WALK ON HIS OWN.
He didn't show the faintest signs of remorse. He said a "yeah, I know" as a cheap apology. If he really cared and felt that bad, he would've kept an eye on Clementine later in Episode 4 and he couldn't even do that.
He did show remorse, look at the face he makes just before he runs off. He knows he is too scared to do anything but run, and he feels remorse before even doing it.
I don't think I could run away from a little kid. I'd feel suicidal after that. Imagine if it was any other character that did that, the hate would be astonishing, but because it's Ben, he gets a pass.
And didn't he feel suicidal? That plus all the other times he messed up are the reasons why he wanted Lee to drop him from that bell tower. And he doesn't really 'get a pass', just my understanding, because to me he is the only character who can't really cope with the whole "apocalypse" and "not being safe" thing, and I wouldn't either, which is why I understand him.
Then he has the audacity to claim he had a little sister and never got to see them before the outbreak. Yet, you leave a little girl who's old enough to be your sister and treats you like an older brother out to die. And later, you let her wander OUT OF THE MANSION AND ONTO THE STREETS.
Well, I don't really know what to say about this... like I said before, I do understand why he did that, although that's incredibly cowardly.
As a result of Lilly's paranoia of the supply theft that Ben was responsible for, Carley/Doug was shot dead alongside the road during a heated argument.
Duck (Indirectly Caused)
Ben's supply theft ultimately resulted in the raid that caused Duck to get bitten by a walker.
Katjaa (Indirectly Caused)
Ben's supply theft ultimately resulted in the raid that caused Duck to get bitten by a walker. Unable to cope with losing her son, Katjaa committed suicide right in front of Kenny and Duck.
Charles (Indirectly Caused)
As of a result of Ben's cowardice, Ben abandons Clementine, forcing Lee and Charles/Chuck to come to her rescue. Charles/Chuck is then separated from the group by walkers and his remains are later found by Lee in the sewers of Savannah.
Molly (Possibly/Determinant/Indirectly Caused)
After he removes the hatchet from the door handles and walkers overrun the building, Molly can get left behind if the walker she's fighting isn't shot by Lee or Clementine. While it's possible she can be devoured by walkers, her true fate is unknown.
Kenny (Determinant/Indirectly Caused)
After breaking through the wall in the attic of the mansion, the group proceed to jump across a small balcony over an alley, it breaks as Ben tries to jump across, and falls. When Kenny and Lee go see what happened, Ben says he's okay, but when removing objects on top of him, it is revealed the balcony arm impaled Ben in the stomach. When walkers see the three of them, Kenny pushes Lee away into a gate to protect him, telling Lee to find Clementine. As walkers start to attack, Kenny uses his last bullet to put Ben out of his misery, and then get himself eaten alive as Lee watches.
At least two zombies (Determinant).
Not me, the wikia.
What about Brie? And goddamn, this kid doesn't get his hands dirty. Every one of those has been "Indirectly caused"
The whole "it was indirectly caused" as a defence is bullshit in my eyes, if i gave an absolute crazy guy a gun, and he went on to shoot a shit load of people, i would be to blame just as much as the crazy guy, so ben is just as much to blame as the zombies for biting duck/molly/chuck. he's just a walking liability
Ben wasn't treated like a kid. He was given pretty mature tasks, but because he botched them and was demoted to babysitting duty and he fucked that up. He was never treated like a kid, otherwise, Kenny, Lilly, and Lee wouldn't have wanted to kill him.
I've seen no evidence of him being given mature tasks prior to him having to look after Clem. He was on watch in episode 3 and Kenny thought that was a mistake in itself. There is no evidence that he was properly trained with guns despite holding one; he claims to not be good with them. He was then told to look after Clem, but aside from that, he is always told to stay behind.
When on the subject of Ben, many comment that he's still just a kid such as Lee ("he's still just a kid, it's easy to forget that"), Chuck ("three adults taking care of three kids"), Kenny ("looks like we got the kid on watch again"). I see no indication that anyone saw Ben as anything more than that. I understand why people hate Ben, but I can see why he panics so much when he does not have anything backing him up like proper training, encouragement, and gradual exposure to this horrible world to help build up his character. Some people just freeze when death is staring them in the face and do incredibly stupid things on impulse; easy to judge, but when in such situations, it's easy to panic when you have no prior experience handling such affairs except for running.
I liked Ben because he's probably the most realistic character in the game. Ben is how most teenagers would react in a zombie apocalypse. All he wanted to do was help but because of it he kept hurting people, even the ones he cared about (e.g. Carley, Doug, Katjaa, Duck, Kenny, nearly Clementine). During the bell tower scene I think he wanted Lee to drop him simply because he didn't want to hurt anyone else with his actions.
I'm also under the belief that humanity > survival.
I've seen no evidence of him being given mature tasks prior to him having to look after Clem. He was on watch in episode 3 and Kenny thought that was a mistake in itself. There is no evidence that he was properly trained with guns despite holding one; he claims to not be good with them. He was then told to look after Clem, but aside from that, he is always told to stay behind.
When on the subject of Ben, many comment that he's still just a kid such as Lee ("he's still just a kid, it's easy to forget that"), Chuck ("three adults taking care of three kids"), Kenny ("looks like we got the kid on watch again"). I see no indication that anyone saw Ben as anything more than that.
They put Ben on watch.
Lee tells Ben to watch Lilly with a gun. Lee says Lilly keeps everyone on a training schedule, so I'm assuming Ben got some rifle training at least.
Ben's biggest time to prove himself was when Lee told him to help Clementine.
He had to guard the motel with Carley or Doug. Think about that. He's left at the motel which was being attacked by bandits (before he made the deal) with only Carley or Doug. Carley's a crack shot, but c'mon.
Chuck then turns around and says age doesn't matter. Lee agrees. Kenny obviously didn't care because he wanted to kill Ben. So all recanted their statements in a way. Again. Lee, Lilly, and Kenny all wanted to kill Ben. How do they see him as a kid?
I liked Ben because he's probably the most realistic character in the game. Ben is how most teenagers would react in a zombie apocalypse. All he wanted to do was help but because of it he kept hurting people, even the ones he cared about (e.g. Carley, Doug, Katjaa, Duck, Kenny, nearly Clementine). During the bell tower scene I think he wanted Lee to drop him simply because he didn't want to hurt anyone else with his actions.
I'm also under the belief that humanity > survival.
If it's not about survival, but humanity then why did he leave a little girl to be mauled by zombies? Even if he ran and then came back to make up for it, I would've forgiven him, but c'mon man. If you seriously think most teenagers would behave like Ben, then you've just insulted an entire generation.
If it's not about survival, but humanity then why did he leave a little girl to be mauled by zombies? Even if he ran and then came back to make up for it, I would've forgiven him, but c'mon man. If you seriously think most teenagers would behave like Ben, then you've just insulted an entire generation.
some would act like that (somewhat a 32% of teens would act like that)
Now, hold on. He ran away because he wasn't thinking. He obviously did care. I suppose you were never a teenager yourself. Ben did keep an eye on Clem, until a wounded man needed help. Ben wasn't justified in leaving Clem, but he was justified in helping a man who couldn't WALK ON HIS OWN.
He ran to save himself, showing us he cared more about his own life than he did a 9 year old girl's. Period.
He could've told Clem to come upstairs with him. He could've made her. If he can't handle a 9 year old, then why the fuck would he assist with a wounded man?
If it's not about survival, but humanity then why did he leave a little girl to be mauled by zombies? Even if he ran and then came back to make up for it, I would've forgiven him, but c'mon man. If you seriously think most teenagers would behave like Ben, then you've just insulted an entire generation.
I didn't mean in regards with Ben, all he wants to do is make sure he doesn't become a walker (it's implied that's his biggest fear). I'm talking in regards with Lee, my Lee believes in humanity over survival and if I dropped Ben I would have been no different than Crawford.
Do you honestly believe teenagers would act heroic in a zombie apocalypse? Especially one that is in a band class. I'm willing to bet almost all teenagers would act like sniveling children, only exceptions are the ones that have parents like Rick Grimes.
I didn't mean in regards with Ben, all he wants to do is make sure he doesn't become a walker (it's implied that's his biggest fear). I'm talking in regards with Lee, my Lee believes in humanity over survival and if I dropped Ben I would have been no different than Crawford.
Do you honestly believe teenagers would act heroic in a zombie apocalypse? Especially one that is in a band class. I'm willing to bet almost all teenagers would act like sniveling children, only exceptions are the ones that have parents like Rick Grimes.
Sorry, I misread that.
No, I don't. However, most cowards probably would die early on. Bravery is pretty much required in TWD. You're dead without it. Ben lived as long as he did because of the bravery of Carley and Doug. Because of Lee's bravery. Because of Clem's bravery. Because of Kenny's bravery. You'd think some of that courage would rub off.
Look around the globe, kids show examples of bravery every day. American and many First World teenagers are sheltered, but give them the benefit of the doubt.
Lee tells Ben to watch Lilly with a gun. Lee says Lilly keeps everyone on a training schedule, so I'm assuming Ben got some rifle training at least.
Ben's biggest time to prove himself was when Lee told him to help Clementine.
He had to guard the motel with Carley or Doug. Think about that. He's left at the motel which was being attacked by bandits (before he made the deal) with only Carley or Doug. Carley's a crack shot, but c'mon.
Chuck then turns around and says age doesn't matter. Lee agrees. Kenny obviously didn't care because he wanted to kill Ben. So all recanted their statements in a way. Again. Lee, Lilly, and Kenny all wanted to kill Ben. How do they see him as a kid?
Again, to Chuck age doesn't matter, but they will still be seen as one if that's how they are treated. I'm a little confused as to how Lilly and Kenny wanting to kill Ben has anything to do with thinking he isn't a kid. They were pissed at him and wanted him dead because he messed up badly; Ben isn't a child, but he is still not old enough to be an adult and is still not treated as such either. You said that Ben being young doesn't matter because age doesn't matter, and while I agreed with that, it still matters if they aren't treated as adults.
He was left in charge of the motel by a grieving woman (who later claims she's never trusted him during the argument on the road, so why she even let him is beyond me) while Kenny thinks it was a horrible idea to put him on watch. He was definitely not going to be trusted with guarding the Motel unless Carley was with him and having him hold up a gun towards a tied up woman with Lee a few feet away may have been the first rays of trust.
Again though, Ben is not comfortable with guns and wasn't properly trained to use them (unless there is a specific line that Lilly trained Ben, I don't think he was because there is obviously no evidence of it when he uses them) and has been rather sheltered from embarking on dangerous situations. To me, that explains why he did stupid things, not out of spite or malice, and why I don't mind the kid. Had Lee did training sessions with Ben, got him familiar with guns and how to aim, briefed him on supply runs and how to stay calm, and have others work with him, Ben would've been much more useful. As it is, he had no courage or self confidence and simply did not know how to handle himself.
Some people have it built into their character, but Ben didn't. I understand why people hate him and how cutting him loose might even be the smart, if inhumane, thing to do. I didn't want to leave him behind and thought the core of his character wasn't spiteful or malicious, but just a normal person thrown into this without any grasp on how to save others. Threatening a person to step up can only go so far, they need to be familiar with weapons to have the confidence to protect themselves and others.
People can blame Ben all they want about all these deaths, but at the end of the day, Lilly was crazed and killed Carley herself, Katjaa made the decision to take her own life, and who knows what the bandits would've done if they didn't make that deal.
No, I don't. However, most cowards probably would die early on. Bravery is pretty much required in TWD. You're dead without it. Ben lived as long as he did because of the bravery of Carley and Doug. Because of Lee's bravery. Because of Clem's bravery. Because of Kenny's bravery. You'd think some of that courage would rub off.
Look around the globe, kids show examples of bravery every day. American and many First World teenagers are sheltered, but give them the benefit of the doubt.
As you said, most cowards would survive due to the courage of others. E.g. cowardly teens would survive due to their parents bravery and love for them. Maybe 5% of the kids in this generation have displayed some bravery (e.g. Jeremy Wuitschick in California, the kid who drove the school bus following the bus driver losing unconsciousness).
I'm willing to bet most teenagers would have the mentality that they'd be a hero following a zombie apocalypse, they'd be super brave and all of that. But in reality, when push comes to shove, they'd be too afraid to do anything heroic. It's not like Ben doesn't have some bravery though, going into Crawford by itself must have required a lot of bravery and I bet you he cares more about Clementine, or whoever, more then his own life but when the situation calls for it fear clouds his judgement and always prevails. Believe it or not but in those dire situations it really is hard to act, even if someone you love is in danger.
"He thought about other people before he thought about himself. My mom always told me that's what makes a good person."
Why do I like Ben? Huh, that's a tough question even though he's my favorite character. I think it's just a friendly guy, because I don't know how many others would give Clementine some stickers they found in a drawer. That and he's one of the most human people in the group. Lilly and Larry became complete maniacs, Carley was getting a little too bitchy (Yes I agree with that), Kenny's family got a little too confident and Kenny himself wouldn't let go of anything. Along with Doug and Mark (Or what I saw of him), Ben stayed a good-minded person who wasn't afraid to say what was on his mind, unlike Doug. Even with everyone constantly bombarding him with insults and distrust, Ben kept calm (Except Episode 5) and wanted to kill himself because everyone else but Lee wanted him gone. Ben may have messed up, but to me, on the inside, Ben was a hero.
Also he took me back to watching Scooby-Doo on Saturday morning.
Why do I like Ben? Huh, that's a tough question even though he's my favorite character. I think it's just a friendly guy, because I don't know how many others would give Clementine some stickers they found in a drawer. That and he's one of the most human people in the group. Lilly and Larry became complete maniacs, Carley was getting a little too bitchy (Yes I agree with that), Kenny's family got a little too confident and Kenny himself wouldn't let go of anything. Along with Doug and Mark (Or what I saw of him), Ben stayed a good-minded person who wasn't afraid to say what was on his mind, unlike Doug. Even with everyone constantly bombarding him with insults and distrust, Ben kept calm (Except Episode 5) and wanted to kill himself because everyone else but Lee wanted him gone. Ben may have messed up, but to me, on the inside, Ben was a hero.
Also he took me back to watching Scooby-Doo on Saturday morning.
Doug - Fred
Ben - Shaggy
Carley - Velma
Lilly - Daphne
Dead dog - Scooby
Carley as Velma!? Did you forget a certain battery-related incident? They're polar opposites! :eek:
Anyway, i like Ben because he has a good heart(despite his attitude in episode 4 :mad: ). Even if i didn't like him i would still try to save him, because we're in this together, and everyone counts, regardless of your mistakes(unless he gets someone killed literally every 5 minutes).
So if everyone can screw up as he pleases over and over again and get away with it because the oh-so-poor-guy lost his family, totally unlike everyobody else and...is still considered a poor child...even though he's got a beard...the group isn't going to survive one day.
Can't remember the last time I've seen a kid with a beard. Can you?
Okay, argue with yourself. I've clearly stated what my point was. I'll do it again:
Chuck's "you're either alive or dead,not smart, not strong" etc. (If no-one is smart, and no-one is strong, then no-one is weak and no-one is stupid either) They're all just alive.
This argument stands for everyone, or no one. You can't just use it for certain aspects or people etc.
So to use it as an argument for either side is pointless. That's what I was saying to Doctanian.
Ben doesn't have anything to live for.
Lee lives for Clem (and possible Kenny)
Clem lives for Lee & her parents
Kenny lives for Lee & Clem, and formerly Duck, Kat, and Boat
Omid lives for Christa and her baby
Christa lives for Omid & her baby
The closest thing to anyone who ever actually cared about him was David Parker and Travis. But they're both gone now
So if everyone can screw up as he pleases over and over again and get away with it because the oh-so-poor-guy lost his family, totally unlike everyobody else and...is still considered a poor child...even though he's got a beard...the group isn't going to survive one day.
Can't remember the last time I've seen a kid with a beard. Can you?
Its not a beard its fuzz pretty much and most teenagers have it
Why do I like Ben? Huh, that's a tough question even though he's my favorite character. I think it's just a friendly guy, because I don't know how many others would give Clementine some stickers they found in a drawer. That and he's one of the most human people in the group. Lilly and Larry became complete maniacs, Carley was getting a little too bitchy (Yes I agree with that), Kenny's family got a little too confident and Kenny himself wouldn't let go of anything. Along with Doug and Mark (Or what I saw of him), Ben stayed a good-minded person who wasn't afraid to say what was on his mind, unlike Doug. Even with everyone constantly bombarding him with insults and distrust, Ben kept calm (Except Episode 5) and wanted to kill himself because everyone else but Lee wanted him gone. Ben may have messed up, but to me, on the inside, Ben was a hero.
Also he took me back to watching Scooby-Doo on Saturday morning.
Pfft, the only time Carley was getting "bitchy" was when she was saving your "favorite character" Ben. If it wasn't for Carley defending his traitor ass, he would have been shot instead.
*Spoilers from comic*
I personally don't care about being better or worse than others seriously who cares? It's not like someone(besides Stranger) its stalking you and noting any fucking thing you do, if you think it over being better than the bad guys is no good, you need to be ruthless and relentless, Rick learned that, Andrea learned that, Miccone already knew that... and i don't remember anyone else of the main group who survived this long and got the guts to survive(ie: Glenn and his gf wich name i don't remember).
I let him fall, not because i wanted him to die, because HE wanted to die a hero, i tough the fall would kill him but no, it broke his legs and he got ate. I immediately regret it, but there was nothing to do, next playtrough i guess. If i knew the fall wouldn't kill him i would have pulled him up and screw everything else.
You don't let kids die.. its like raping them or selling them. You just don't, unless you want to get buttfucked by an elephant.
ben is the "me" of TWD universe or at least the most like me of all of them, i would be glad to be in Lee's group and i would feel so sorry and guilty if i had messed up and that had contributed to the death of a child
I am a lot like Ben as well, if I was in a zombie apocalypse I'd probably f*** a lot of things up like him. Ben's ok I guess, I saved him in the bell tower and the reason is that Clem like Ben she stuck up for him and I knew I would only hurt her if I did that and I already had enough blood on my hands, I wanted Ben to redeem himself later on because I thought he could do it. But no instead he lets me down and gets Kenny f***ing killed! But to me Ben alright I can forgive for what he's done, back with the bandits he wanted to help the group, it just got out of hand. I don't know why people like Ben, don't know why I like him myself.
HE'S SEXY AS F*CK. And I think that maybe having his friend and teacher die right in front of him was traumatizing. It would be for me.
I think people get by now that you think Ben is "sexy as f*ck" since you have mention that in most of your posts. Is that really the only reason you like him? Not exactly a good explanation.
Hey guys so iwas wondering, because of him Carley, Chuck, Katjaa and Duck are dead plus Lilly went nuts(she was already a little but this was the ultimatum).
I'm actually happy of leaving him fall. It was the right decision, he needed to pay for his sins and he did it.
Hey guys so iwas wondering, because of him Carley, Chuck, Katjaa and Duck are dead plus Lilly went nuts(she was already a little but this was the ultimatum).
I'm actually happy of leaving him fall. It was the right decision, he needed to pay for his sins and he did it.
I don't think we have the same definition of the word "sin".
Comments
He left Clementine to die. There is no fucking excusing that. A hobo who had only know her for two days gave his life for that little girl.
It does, but you're missing the point.
While I do agree it's a dick move to leave a little girl behind, I do understand why that happened. Heck, I'd probably do the same and feel like a complete piece of shit for doing it. That's why I think I'm not really suited for a Z.A.
He didn't show the faintest signs of remorse. He said a "yeah, I know" as a cheap apology. If he really cared and felt that bad, he would've kept an eye on Clementine later in Episode 4 and he couldn't even do that.
I don't think I could run away from a little kid. I'd feel suicidal after that. Imagine if it was any other character that did that, the hate would be astonishing, but because it's Ben, he gets a pass.
Then he has the audacity to claim he had a little sister and never got to see them before the outbreak. Yet, you leave a little girl who's old enough to be your sister and treats you like an older brother out to die. And later, you let her wander OUT OF THE MANSION AND ONTO THE STREETS.
"FUCK YOU KENNY"
"I am so,so,SO sorry about katjaa and duck, I AM. and I know i fucked up, BUT stop pushing me around and STOP wishing I was dead.
"NO!,you know how they died, you've said GOODBYE, I never got to see my family, my little sister...do you get that?your family is gone but at least you had them to lose."
"I never made it home. They could be alive or dead or walkers or WORSE and I don't know. SO GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!"
Now, hold on. He ran away because he wasn't thinking. He obviously did care. I suppose you were never a teenager yourself. Ben did keep an eye on Clem, until a wounded man needed help. Ben wasn't justified in leaving Clem, but he was justified in helping a man who couldn't WALK ON HIS OWN.
He did show remorse, look at the face he makes just before he runs off. He knows he is too scared to do anything but run, and he feels remorse before even doing it.
And didn't he feel suicidal? That plus all the other times he messed up are the reasons why he wanted Lee to drop him from that bell tower. And he doesn't really 'get a pass', just my understanding, because to me he is the only character who can't really cope with the whole "apocalypse" and "not being safe" thing, and I wouldn't either, which is why I understand him.
Well, I don't really know what to say about this... like I said before, I do understand why he did that, although that's incredibly cowardly.
What about Brie? And goddamn, this kid doesn't get his hands dirty. Every one of those has been "Indirectly caused"
I've seen no evidence of him being given mature tasks prior to him having to look after Clem. He was on watch in episode 3 and Kenny thought that was a mistake in itself. There is no evidence that he was properly trained with guns despite holding one; he claims to not be good with them. He was then told to look after Clem, but aside from that, he is always told to stay behind.
When on the subject of Ben, many comment that he's still just a kid such as Lee ("he's still just a kid, it's easy to forget that"), Chuck ("three adults taking care of three kids"), Kenny ("looks like we got the kid on watch again"). I see no indication that anyone saw Ben as anything more than that. I understand why people hate Ben, but I can see why he panics so much when he does not have anything backing him up like proper training, encouragement, and gradual exposure to this horrible world to help build up his character. Some people just freeze when death is staring them in the face and do incredibly stupid things on impulse; easy to judge, but when in such situations, it's easy to panic when you have no prior experience handling such affairs except for running.
I'm also under the belief that humanity > survival.
Chuck then turns around and says age doesn't matter. Lee agrees. Kenny obviously didn't care because he wanted to kill Ben. So all recanted their statements in a way. Again. Lee, Lilly, and Kenny all wanted to kill Ben. How do they see him as a kid?
If it's not about survival, but humanity then why did he leave a little girl to be mauled by zombies? Even if he ran and then came back to make up for it, I would've forgiven him, but c'mon man. If you seriously think most teenagers would behave like Ben, then you've just insulted an entire generation.
some would act like that (somewhat a 32% of teens would act like that)
He ran to save himself, showing us he cared more about his own life than he did a 9 year old girl's. Period.
He could've told Clem to come upstairs with him. He could've made her. If he can't handle a 9 year old, then why the fuck would he assist with a wounded man?
Do you honestly believe teenagers would act heroic in a zombie apocalypse? Especially one that is in a band class. I'm willing to bet almost all teenagers would act like sniveling children, only exceptions are the ones that have parents like Rick Grimes.
Sorry, I misread that.
No, I don't. However, most cowards probably would die early on. Bravery is pretty much required in TWD. You're dead without it. Ben lived as long as he did because of the bravery of Carley and Doug. Because of Lee's bravery. Because of Clem's bravery. Because of Kenny's bravery. You'd think some of that courage would rub off.
Look around the globe, kids show examples of bravery every day. American and many First World teenagers are sheltered, but give them the benefit of the doubt.
Again, to Chuck age doesn't matter, but they will still be seen as one if that's how they are treated. I'm a little confused as to how Lilly and Kenny wanting to kill Ben has anything to do with thinking he isn't a kid. They were pissed at him and wanted him dead because he messed up badly; Ben isn't a child, but he is still not old enough to be an adult and is still not treated as such either. You said that Ben being young doesn't matter because age doesn't matter, and while I agreed with that, it still matters if they aren't treated as adults.
He was left in charge of the motel by a grieving woman (who later claims she's never trusted him during the argument on the road, so why she even let him is beyond me) while Kenny thinks it was a horrible idea to put him on watch. He was definitely not going to be trusted with guarding the Motel unless Carley was with him and having him hold up a gun towards a tied up woman with Lee a few feet away may have been the first rays of trust.
Again though, Ben is not comfortable with guns and wasn't properly trained to use them (unless there is a specific line that Lilly trained Ben, I don't think he was because there is obviously no evidence of it when he uses them) and has been rather sheltered from embarking on dangerous situations. To me, that explains why he did stupid things, not out of spite or malice, and why I don't mind the kid. Had Lee did training sessions with Ben, got him familiar with guns and how to aim, briefed him on supply runs and how to stay calm, and have others work with him, Ben would've been much more useful. As it is, he had no courage or self confidence and simply did not know how to handle himself.
Some people have it built into their character, but Ben didn't. I understand why people hate him and how cutting him loose might even be the smart, if inhumane, thing to do. I didn't want to leave him behind and thought the core of his character wasn't spiteful or malicious, but just a normal person thrown into this without any grasp on how to save others. Threatening a person to step up can only go so far, they need to be familiar with weapons to have the confidence to protect themselves and others.
People can blame Ben all they want about all these deaths, but at the end of the day, Lilly was crazed and killed Carley herself, Katjaa made the decision to take her own life, and who knows what the bandits would've done if they didn't make that deal.
MOLLY IS NOT DEAD... sheesh.
I'm willing to bet most teenagers would have the mentality that they'd be a hero following a zombie apocalypse, they'd be super brave and all of that. But in reality, when push comes to shove, they'd be too afraid to do anything heroic. It's not like Ben doesn't have some bravery though, going into Crawford by itself must have required a lot of bravery and I bet you he cares more about Clementine, or whoever, more then his own life but when the situation calls for it fear clouds his judgement and always prevails. Believe it or not but in those dire situations it really is hard to act, even if someone you love is in danger.
"He thought about other people before he thought about himself. My mom always told me that's what makes a good person."
Also he took me back to watching Scooby-Doo on Saturday morning.
So he reminds you of shaggy too?
*nods*
Hmm sucks he didn't find a dog
"Like zoinks lee"
What about that dog we dug up. Ben and Skeletal Dog adventures, I like the sound of that.
Lol but me thinks the walkers ain't just guys in masks
Doug - Fred
Ben - Shaggy
Carley - Velma
Lilly - Daphne
Dead dog - Scooby
Carley as Velma!? Did you forget a certain battery-related incident? They're polar opposites! :eek:
Anyway, i like Ben because he has a good heart(despite his attitude in episode 4 :mad: ). Even if i didn't like him i would still try to save him, because we're in this together, and everyone counts, regardless of your mistakes(unless he gets someone killed literally every 5 minutes).
Okay, argue with yourself. I've clearly stated what my point was. I'll do it again:
Chuck's "you're either alive or dead,not smart, not strong" etc. (If no-one is smart, and no-one is strong, then no-one is weak and no-one is stupid either) They're all just alive.
This argument stands for everyone, or no one. You can't just use it for certain aspects or people etc.
So to use it as an argument for either side is pointless. That's what I was saying to Doctanian.
Lee lives for Clem (and possible Kenny)
Clem lives for Lee & her parents
Kenny lives for Lee & Clem, and formerly Duck, Kat, and Boat
Omid lives for Christa and her baby
Christa lives for Omid & her baby
The closest thing to anyone who ever actually cared about him was David Parker and Travis. But they're both gone now
Its not a beard its fuzz pretty much and most teenagers have it
How about you show some gratitude. :mad:
I personally don't care about being better or worse than others seriously who cares? It's not like someone(besides Stranger) its stalking you and noting any fucking thing you do, if you think it over being better than the bad guys is no good, you need to be ruthless and relentless, Rick learned that, Andrea learned that, Miccone already knew that... and i don't remember anyone else of the main group who survived this long and got the guts to survive(ie: Glenn and his gf wich name i don't remember).
I let him fall, not because i wanted him to die, because HE wanted to die a hero, i tough the fall would kill him but no, it broke his legs and he got ate. I immediately regret it, but there was nothing to do, next playtrough i guess. If i knew the fall wouldn't kill him i would have pulled him up and screw everything else.
You don't let kids die.. its like raping them or selling them. You just don't, unless you want to get buttfucked by an elephant.
I am a lot like Ben as well, if I was in a zombie apocalypse I'd probably f*** a lot of things up like him. Ben's ok I guess, I saved him in the bell tower and the reason is that Clem like Ben she stuck up for him and I knew I would only hurt her if I did that and I already had enough blood on my hands, I wanted Ben to redeem himself later on because I thought he could do it. But no instead he lets me down and gets Kenny f***ing killed! But to me Ben alright I can forgive for what he's done, back with the bandits he wanted to help the group, it just got out of hand. I don't know why people like Ben, don't know why I like him myself.
I think people get by now that you think Ben is "sexy as f*ck" since you have mention that in most of your posts. Is that really the only reason you like him? Not exactly a good explanation.
I'm actually happy of leaving him fall. It was the right decision, he needed to pay for his sins and he did it.
I don't think we have the same definition of the word "sin".