If Ben admitted his guilt before Lilly snapped, what would you do to him?

edited January 2013 in The Walking Dead
This is inspired by Red Panda's thread on what to do with Lilly if she shot Ben instead.

My question, instead, is what would you want to do to Ben if he admitted his guilt before Lilly snapped and shot Carley or Doug?

I think this would've created some interesting and intense group interaction while affecting your group's disposition towards you. Kenny would most likely want Ben gone because of Duck. This could be great opportunity to further cement/repair or totally break your relationship with Kenny. Katjaa would be interesting, since she seems like such a kind person who won't act out of vengeance. Lilly would also want Ben gone too, and might even shoot Ben outright. Carley would probably allow Ben back on the RV. I am not sure about Doug since I don't his character well. Meanwhile Clem is watching...

While my heart tells me to give the kid another chance, I think for the sake of the group Ben would be left behind. We have at least two people that would strongly oppose keeping Ben, one is angry Lilly with a gun and the other is Kenny who has the RV. Keeping Ben would inevitably caused further group problems if not bloodshed. By abandoning him, I think it's a middleground on the need to punish him for endangering the group and keeping some humanity by giving him a fighting chance (but knowing Ben, we know it would be a slim one!). If the game went in this direction, hopefully it'll give you a chance to explain yourself to characters opposed to abandoning Ben.

Comments

  • edited January 2013
    Keep him and vote once tempers had cooled.

    Ben would really need to bring his A game in stating his case, or I would have had Lee vote to leave him by the roadside.
  • edited January 2013
    Lilly would obviously want Ben gone for, it's canon, that she was so unhinged that she'd go far as to kill him. Kenny would also want him gone because he's the reason Duck is the way he is. Carley would want him to stay because that's just the way she is and Katjaa would vote for him to stay due to her kind, motherly nature. Doug would also, obviously, want him to stay.

    Exile: Lilly Caul, Kenny
    Stay: Carley, Katjaa

    I would vote for him to stay. I'd also have a lot more respect for the kid.
  • edited January 2013
    Boom, Headshot!

    Dammit, I misread - BEFORE Lilly snapped..... well.... I'd have kicked his ass out.
  • edited January 2013
    I'd wait for the group to have a say.
  • edited January 2013
    CarScar wrote: »
    Lilly would obviously want Ben gone for, it's canon, that she was so unhinged that she'd go far as to kill him. Kenny would also want him gone because he's the reason Duck is the way he is. Carley would want him to stay because that's just the way she is and Katjaa would vote for him to stay due to her kind, motherly nature. Doug would also, obviously, want him to stay.

    Exile: Lilly Caul, Kenny
    Stay: Carley, Katjaa

    I would vote for him to stay. I'd also have a lot more respect for the kid.


    Just a small correction, but Lilly from the game is no longer Lilly Caul from the comics and books.

    I suppose that means Lilly from the game's last name is an unknown.

    I just read The Road to Woodbury recently, and Lilly Caul is a completely different character than game Lilly. She has a different appearance, personality, and backstory. Lilly Caul's father is also named Everett, rather than Larry.
  • edited January 2013
    Scaeva wrote: »
    Just a small correction, but Lilly from the game is no longer Lilly Caul from the comics and books.

    I suppose that means Lilly from the game's last name is an unknown.

    I just read The Road to Woodbury recently, and Lilly Caul is a completely different character than game Lilly. She has a different appearance, personality, and backstory. Lilly Caul's father is also named Everett, rather than Larry.
    I know... I read that book as well and I hated it. I know it's silly but I've just gotten into the habit of pretending it never happened and game Lilly is the same as comic Lilly, just as it was originally planned. I prefer it much more.
  • edited January 2013
    Letting someone die will just make the team weaker

    Ben meant well for his betrayal and mainly did it to put of the bandit attack
  • edited January 2013
    Keep him and decide once everyone cools their jets. Take a vote and all that.
  • edited January 2013
    I would give him a good talking to, that's for sure, but I'd keep him. Why? Because he's a teenager, and hormones make people more emotional. Man, I remember what it was like to be that age--it makes you a crazy person.

    He was trying to save his friend and protect the group; after he figured it out, he kept going because he was terrified of the bandits. It was incredibly naive, but it's not like he tried to kill Lee or something. As long as someone means well, I will keep them around, and just help them make less stupid decisions.

    But really, all he did was hand over some hard drugs nobody needed anyway. Oxycontin is dangerously addictive--all this "what if Clem needed it, somebody's cutting our throats!" stuff from Lilly doesn't fly.

    People give Ben a hard time, but instead of losing the people we did lose, we could've lost EVERYONE to the bandits. He kept them from hitting the group on a day the walkers weren't there to shake things up.

    As far as I'm concerned, his only mistake was not telling the group what he was doing so they'd be prepared. Then again, since paranoid, unstable Lilly friggin' KILLS someone over it, maybe that wasn't a mistake at all. Maybe it was just survival instincts kicking in.

    In the end, I am inclined to blame Lilly's intense overreaction for Katjaa and Duck dying, because I think Ben would've confessed if he wasn't so afraid of her. The group might've had time to prepare a defense or leave if he'd felt compelled to confess, but with her around, that wasn't going to happen.
  • edited January 2013
    Keep him and decide later on when everyone calms down, but most likely keep him in the group but make sure everyone keeps an eye on him and he doesn't have any major responsibilities as it would take a while for trust to come back. But in a way he kind of helped the group by giving bandits survived, otherwise they probably wouldn't have been able to even leave the motor inn. I don't think it was his fault for Carley's or Doug's deaths, that was Lilly. Maybe it was his fault a bit for Duck's death but not Katjaa. He obviously screwed up with Brie later on in the game though. But yeah I kind of feel like people put too much blame on him. He didn't do anything with bad intentions.
  • edited January 2013
    Shoot him in the cheek and leave him by the road.
  • edited January 2013
    I'd keep him with the group, but of course, due to that, I'd have to talk to him and get to know his reasons more and give him some advice. (Once temper cools down)

    He's a good kid, just trying to help out. But of course, he SHOULD be corrected and shouldnt pass.

    But of course some people would want him out. I'd tell Lilly: "Give him one more chance. If he screws up one more time, we leave him."
  • edited January 2013
    I'd keep him with the group, but of course, due to that, I'd have to talk to him and get to know his reasons more and give him some advice. (Once temper cools down)

    He's a good kid, just trying to help out. But of course, he SHOULD be corrected and shouldnt pass.

    But of course some people would want him out. I'd tell Lilly: "Give him one more chance. If he screws up one more time, we leave him."

    Same plan as this for me, pretty much. Thought honestly, with how much of a wreck Lilly is, i have zero doubt she would have immediately murdered Ben after he admitted it. She attempts to kill him if you have Doug instead of Carley, and he didn't even admit it then.

    His intentions are good, so he earns a place in my group.
  • edited January 2013
    If she would have killed ben. I'd slam her again to the RV and give her a lesson like Hershel Greene.
  • edited January 2013
    People make good points about not tossing Ben under the bus. My only worry is if Lilly or Kenny would agree to cooling off first before deciding because both would be an in emotionally distraught state. But I think I'll switch over to the cool off camp, and hopefully Clem's childlike innocence would save the day, like in episode 4.

    Yeah, I can see that Ben's action at the inn is understandable. Maybe it could be argued it was a good thing because it did keep the bandits from attacking. It would just be nice if the group decided on it together--but I read in another thread that Lilly was too intimidating to talk to.
  • edited January 2013
    Keep him. He fucked up but thats no reason to leave him to die (which we all know he will). We make sure someone is always with the kid and hope Lilly and Kenny dont kill him. Kenny definitely wouldnt, as he didnt in ep 4 or 5 but Lilly might.

    Still "Ben's nice. Hes my friend. We dont leave friends behind"
  • edited January 2013
    Well all we lost was the motel, and if we just kept him and drove a bit further, we would've found the Train and Ben wouldn't have caused any deaths except causing Duck to get bitten.
  • edited January 2013
    What I didn't get is why the leader of the bandits didn't expose Ben and his deal when they all had them at gun point. You think he would of blew up his spot! I found that very strange that they acted like they didn't know him.
  • edited January 2013
    Lego wrote: »
    What I didn't get is why the leader of the bandits didn't expose Ben and his deal when they all had them at gun point. You think he would of blew up his spot! I found that very strange that they acted like they didn't know him.

    Maybe they thought the entire group agreed to the deal, and Ben was just the supplier. Either way i don't think the bandits really care who gave them the supplies, as long as they got it, one way or another.
  • edited January 2013
    I would keep him and once tempers cool off I would ask everyone what they think I should do with Ben. But I would probably leave him, but not shoot him. If Lee would shoot him, that would be even worse for the group and people would start to feel contempt for Lee.
  • edited January 2013
    Shoot dat bitch.
  • edited January 2013
    I would keep him with us until we found him some where safe so he can make it on his own, like what Rick tried to do for Randall in the TV show. Give him some cans of beans, tinned fruit, a weapon and wave him goodbye. I never considered him as part of the group to begin with. The deal was that we would help his friend get better then they would go, that is what Lilly and I agreed. In one of the scenarios Ben even asks to be let out of the RV when Lilly was accusing him any way and he was willing to leave the group.
  • edited January 2013
    Wynne wrote: »
    I would give him a good talking to, that's for sure, but I'd keep him. Why? Because he's a teenager, and hormones make people more emotional. Man, I remember what it was like to be that age--it makes you a crazy person.

    He was trying to save his friend and protect the group; after he figured it out, he kept going because he was terrified of the bandits. It was incredibly naive, but it's not like he tried to kill Lee or something. As long as someone means well, I will keep them around, and just help them make less stupid decisions.

    But really, all he did was hand over some hard drugs nobody needed anyway. Oxycontin is dangerously addictive--all this "what if Clem needed it, somebody's cutting our throats!" stuff from Lilly doesn't fly.

    People give Ben a hard time, but instead of losing the people we did lose, we could've lost EVERYONE to the bandits. He kept them from hitting the group on a day the walkers weren't there to shake things up.

    As far as I'm concerned, his only mistake was not telling the group what he was doing so they'd be prepared. Then again, since paranoid, unstable Lilly friggin' KILLS someone over it, maybe that wasn't a mistake at all. Maybe it was just survival instincts kicking in.

    In the end, I am inclined to blame Lilly's intense overreaction for Katjaa and Duck dying, because I think Ben would've confessed if he wasn't so afraid of her. The group might've had time to prepare a defense or leave if he'd felt compelled to confess, but with her around, that wasn't going to happen.
    I get him being afraid of Lilly. But he could have confided in Carly or Lee since he looked up to Lee, was saved by Lee in the woods and was close with Carly. So I wouldn't blame Lily for Duck and Kat's death, personally. The bandits were able to surprise attack the group, how can this be with Ben watching on guard , standing on the RV roof. When I left the motor inn to search for clues Ben could still see me. He would of saw them coming from the woods and he didn't say anything despite having the advantage/view point. If he had warned the group when the bandits were 50/25 meters away they could have retreated to Lily's room and shot the bandits from the window. Not warning the group that the bandits were coming when he was on look out is him practically handing over the group to bandits Judas style. For colluding with the bandits I would have shot Ben on the spot. That is like the scene in the TV show in season 3 when Rick killed the prisoner inmate and ran after the other one because he knew the inmate Rick killed was planning to kill him and said nothing. The only reason Lee knew his group were under attack is because Lilly noticed, having seen them breach the walls through the window. Even in her state she was still sharp enough and fast on her feet to plan an attack against the bandits with Lee. Ultimately Lee's group lost their home because Ben didn't alert the group that the bandits were coming. After they breached the walls Lee had no problem dealing with them, how much easier would it have been if Lee knew they were coming? Ben could have let the group know they were coming. Even if he froze up and was scared he was still the cause of the surprised attack.
  • edited January 2013
    dee23 wrote: »
    I get him being afraid of Lilly. But he could have confided in Carly or Lee since he looked up to Lee, was saved by Lee in the woods and was close with Carly. So I wouldn't blame Lily for Duck and Kat's death, personally. The bandits were able to surprise attack the group, how can this be with Ben watching on guard , standing on the RV roof. When I left the motor inn to search for clues Ben could still see me. He would of saw them coming from the woods and he didn't say anything despite having the advantage/view point. If he had warned the group when the bandits were 50/25 meters away they could have retreated to Lily's room and shot the bandits from the window. Not warning the group that the bandits were coming when he was on look out is him practically handing over the group to bandits Judas style. For colluding with the bandits I would have shot Ben on the spot. That is like the scene in the TV show in season 3 when Rick killed the prisoner inmate and ran after the other one because he knew the inmate Rick killed was planning to kill him and said nothing. The only reason Lee knew his group were under attack is because Lilly noticed, having seen them breach the walls through the window. Even in her state she was still sharp enough and fast on her feet to plan an attack against the bandits with Lee.

    As soon as Lee gets everything under control she starts a shootout that ends in the motel getting overrun by zombies.
  • edited January 2013
    Dee23, you made a good reminder about Ben totally sucking at sentry duty. It seems there was only one approach towards the inn, which was the front. There was at least a road's width worth of clear space so sneaking up is difficult. How did he not see the bandits and raise an alarm? Maybe I'm missing something so others could chime in.

    And yeah, I'm pissed that Ben never told the group about his deal. I know he might be scared of Lilly, but it sucks he never confided in Lee, who saved him, or Carley who seems to have taken the big sister role to Ben.
  • edited January 2013
    If Ben had revealed it, I would've forgiven him about being an indirect cause to Carley's hs. But he didn't. He should've at least told it to someone or such. T.T but yeah people screw up, but he screwed up real good. But anyway, he seems to correct this later on. So i find him ok.

    Also, how could 3 people not see a girl getting a gun? My vision angle is up to 180 degrees. Less than 200 though. I can't say i could have seen it cus im not in Lee's shoes, but i find it weird. Kenny could have also saw the gun being pulled up. He was facing Lilly.

    Like double u, i'm pissed that ben never told the group about his actions. I would have, but i'd make sure that the girl who's angry at me is weapons free.
  • edited January 2013
    Wynne wrote: »
    I would give him a good talking to, that's for sure, but I'd keep him. Why? Because he's a teenager, and hormones make people more emotional. Man, I remember what it was like to be that age--it makes you a crazy person.

    He was trying to save his friend and protect the group; after he figured it out, he kept going because he was terrified of the bandits. It was incredibly naive, but it's not like he tried to kill Lee or something. As long as someone means well, I will keep them around, and just help them make less stupid decisions.

    But really, all he did was hand over some hard drugs nobody needed anyway. Oxycontin is dangerously addictive--all this "what if Clem needed it, somebody's cutting our throats!" stuff from Lilly doesn't fly.

    People give Ben a hard time, but instead of losing the people we did lose, we could've lost EVERYONE to the bandits. He kept them from hitting the group on a day the walkers weren't there to shake things up.

    As far as I'm concerned, his only mistake was not telling the group what he was doing so they'd be prepared. Then again, since paranoid, unstable Lilly friggin' KILLS someone over it, maybe that wasn't a mistake at all. Maybe it was just survival instincts kicking in.

    In the end, I am inclined to blame Lilly's intense overreaction for Katjaa and Duck dying, because I think Ben would've confessed if he wasn't so afraid of her. The group might've had time to prepare a defense or leave if he'd felt compelled to confess, but with her around, that wasn't going to happen.

    For me, it's hard to argue that Ben's intentions were all that good, atleast as far as the group was concerned. He didn't have a problem potentially screwing the group if he thought it'd save his friend. Lee and Kenny easily could've ended up dead on their supply runs to Macon, and forking over supplies to the bandits means needing to spend more time risking their asses outside of camp to replace them.

    It's not like the group hadn't weathered bandit attacks before, either - the wall is riddled with crossbow bolts. If anything, the reprieve just made them drop their guard, as evidenced by the fact that Ben was the lookout at the time of the attack, when Carley was the one that typically handled that duty.

    Incidentally, you're wrong about the stuff Ben gave them too. First, I'm actually prescribed stuff quite a bit worse than Oxy (due to a pair of crushed vertebrae resulting from a service connected back injury a few years ago). I've never had problems coming off of my medication to participate in trials, neither do a lot of folks. Oxycontin in particular is only "dangerously addictive" if it's misused, e.g. if it's crushed (which destroys its time-release properties)... and people only typically do that if they're abusing it and trying to get high rather than using it for pain anyway.

    Second, Lilly specifically mentions that antibiotics were among the stolen items too, it's actually the first thing she lists - so yeah, she's quite right when she says that could result in somebody ending up dead if they get sick. I'd argue that holds true for pain killers depending on the circumstances, if somebody's in enough pain they can't even function... which during a survival scenario would basically be a death sentence.
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