Not killing both of the ST Johns brothers is the wrong choice...

edited January 2013 in The Walking Dead
A majority of players chose to spare Andy ST John after they had previously killed Danny ST John. I think the choice to spare Andy is the wrong choice because there is no reason why he couldn't have escaped,it's not like he was trapped in a room,he was out in the open, plus there are weapons around the farm if he needed any, but another reason i chose not to spare him was because if he survived he will be obviously wanting revenge for the death of his mother and brother and he knows exactly where to go to find you. I know alot of people decided to not kill Andy because they were scared of what Clem would think after seeing her reaction to the death of Danny, but people have to remember that at the end of the day she is still a 8 year old little girl who doesnt always know or understand what is best for whereas Lee is a grown man who needs to do what is best for Clementine whether she agrees or likes what has to be done. Any thoughts?

Comments

  • edited January 2013
    I always tried to educate Clementine, as I would have educating my own daughter. I tried to teach her that there is nothing more important than a human life, but to kill you need in only cases of extreme necessity.
    Besides, I gave Andy a chance, he did not used, I understand why, because he lost his entire family, Andy just fell to his knees and began to wait for his death. It was very dramatic.
  • edited January 2013
    zev_zev wrote: »
    I always tried to educate Clementine, as I would have educating my own daughter. I tried to teach her that there is nothing more important than a human life, but to kill you need in only cases of extreme necessity.
    Besides, I gave Andy a chance, he did not used, I understand why, because he lost his entire family, Andy just fell to his knees and began to wait for his death. It was very dramatic.

    True but when you make the choice to spare him you have no idea that he was most likely going to accept his death
  • edited January 2013
    When Andy St. John challenged Lee "to fight him like a man" he was basically asking to get killed. He was already badly injured from the initial beating. The whole group was there to back Lee up as well. There was no way he could've beat Lee, and he knew it. It was kinda like a "suicide by cop" scenario. From that scene, I decided that Andy was broken and wanted to die. So, I decided to let the walkers finish him. It was basically two birds with one stone IMHO - walkers still kill Andy while I walk away looking like the better man to my group, especially for Clem. However, if there were no walkers converging on the farm, I would've killed Andy just to be safe and out of retribution.

    The final scene at the diary farm is a really good scene.
  • edited January 2013
    double_u wrote: »
    When Andy St. John challenged Lee "to fight him like a man" he was basically asking to get killed. He was already badly injured from the initial beating. The whole group was there to back Lee up as well. There was no way he could've beat Lee, and he knew it. It was kinda like a "suicide by cop" scenario. From that scene, I decided that Andy was broken and wanted to die. So, I decided to let the walkers finish him. It was basically two birds with one stone IMHO - walkers still kill Andy while I walk away looking like the better man to my group, especially for Clem. However, if there were no walkers converging on the farm, I would've killed Andy just to be safe and out of retribution.

    The final scene at the diary farm is a really good scene.

    Yeah For what its worth i think that even if Andy is spared he does get eaten because as you say he was a broken man but for me personally i could not take that chance,i had to make sure he would never come back.
  • edited January 2013
    When Andy said: "Get back and finish this Lee!" If you choose to leave him, do you remember how Lee closed his eyes and shook his head? At this moment Lee as if mentally shouted: "I'm not as like you!"
    It's awesome
  • edited January 2013
    zev_zev wrote: »
    When Andy said: "Get back and finish this Lee!" If you choose to leave him, do you remember how Lee closed his eyes and shook his head? At this moment Lee as if mentally shouted: "I'm not as like you!"
    It's awesome

    It is an awesome scene as is his death scene, the voice actor for Andy is awesome aswell.
  • edited January 2013
    zev_zev wrote: »
    When Andy said: "Get back and finish this Lee!" If you choose to leave him, do you remember how Lee closed his eyes and shook his head? At this moment Lee as if mentally shouted: "I'm not as like you!"
    It's awesome

    That is awesome. I love the Linda Hostage situation to the last scene of the dairy, all is sooo dramatic and well done.. I just cant get enough of this game!
  • edited January 2013
    Why kill them? It's easier to leave Danny to bleed to death in his own trap and leaving Andy to the zombies. There is no need to get blood on my hands.
  • edited January 2013
    J_Scheff wrote: »
    That is awesome. I love the Linda Hostage situation to the last scene of the dairy, all is sooo dramatic and well done.. I just cant get enough of this game!

    Who the fuck is Linda?
  • edited January 2013
    Kaserkin wrote: »
    Why kill them? It's easier to leave Danny to bleed to death in his own trap and leaving Andy to the zombies. There is no need to get blood on my hands.

    But you never see Andy get eaten, he could easily escape and what if he was to save Danny and then they both come for some revenge. They were evil men who for me anyways could not be allowed to live because of the threat they posed not just to me and my group but to any other survivors out there.
  • edited January 2013
    Who the fuck is Linda?

    He meant Brenda.

    Linda was one of the bandits in the forest who was killed by Carley or Lilly in ep 3
  • edited January 2013
    And no one mentions that they are cannibals. I'd kill em over and over no matter who was watching just because of that. If there is even a chance one of them gets away he will still be inclined to dine on his favorite meat, human. I can't live with the thought that there is even a tiny chance that someone else will die because of that. My first playthrough I was so angry about them (maybe because I couldn't hurt them enough) that it did affect my choice with the supplies in the car, I took those supplies - we were starving and there was no way I was even considering coming close to the St.Johns kind of desperation.

    It was a well done scene and I think shows alot about how we think and what we see as being more morally correct.
  • edited January 2013
    Saemunder wrote: »
    And no one mentions that they are cannibals. I'd kill em over and over no matter who was watching just because of that. If there is even a chance one of them gets away he will still be inclined to dine on his favorite meat, human. I can't live with the thought that there is even a tiny chance that someone else will die because of that. My first playthrough I was so angry about them (maybe because I couldn't hurt them enough) that it did affect my choice with the supplies in the car, I took those supplies - we were starving and there was no way I was even considering coming close to the St.Johns kind of desperation.

    It was a well done scene and I think shows alot about how we think and what we see as being more morally correct.

    Yeah that was pretty much my line of thinking aswell.
  • KoiKoi
    edited January 2013
    The defeated position he sank down in and the way the camera panned just really didn't look like he was about to get back up and fight the horde. To me, he was clearly grieving because he sensed something had happened to Danny and Brenda through the words of Lee (you could straight up tell him they're dead, but even if you pick the other options, his expression shows that he understands what he meant) and that's why he sank to his knees and called out to Lee to "finish" it, as in shoot him. He saw Lee pick up the shotgun; he's not dumb, if he wanted to live he wouldn't taunt an armed man like that, and even if he only said it because he knew Lee wouldn't kill him, he wouldn't have stayed in such a vulnerable position while witnessing the horde of zombies headed in his direction.

    It's the same argument as whether or not Kenny's dead - no, they did not explicitly show the zombies tearing his insides out, but it doesn't really feel necessary. The overall effect of both Kenny and Andy's last scenes are that they knowingly accepted their deaths, in my opinion. It's much more dramatic and emotional than just showing zombies chewing at their intestines.
  • edited January 2013
    Crixus wrote: »
    But you never see Andy get eaten, he could easily escape and what if he was to save Danny and then they both come for some revenge. They were evil men who for me anyways could not be allowed to live because of the threat they posed not just to me and my group but to any other survivors out there.

    I really just wasn't worried about them by the time it was over. We took their rifles, their mom got zombified, Danny's stuck in a bear trap. I wasn't worried about revenge either because the St. Johns chief weapon was deception. Now that we know who they are they wouldn't be able to get close to the Motor Inn without losing their head.

    I wasn't too worried about other survivors either because I figured the bandits would probably finish the St. Johns off. If they were still dealing with those people they're probably not going to make their payment and if not then Bandits will probably just ransack the place and kill the brothers now that the fence was broken and their was only two slightly less armed people left.

    Mostly I just wanted to go home already. :p
  • edited January 2013
    I really just wasn't worried about them by the time it was over. We took their rifles, their mom got zombified, Danny's stuck in a bear trap. I wasn't worried about revenge either because the St. Johns chief weapon was deception. Now that we know who they are they wouldn't be able to get close to the Motor Inn without losing their head.

    I wasn't too worried about other survivors either because I figured the bandits would probably finish the St. Johns off. If they were still dealing with those people they're probably not going to make their payment and if not then Bandits will probably just ransack the place and kill the brothers now that the fence was broken and their was only two slightly less armed people left.

    Mostly I just wanted to go home already. :p

    Good point but i'd be scared that they could end up like the stranger, and we both know how badly he screwed the group over
  • edited January 2013
    Crixus wrote: »
    Good point but i'd be scared that they could end up like the stranger, and we both know how badly he screwed the group over

    My cousin actually thought the guy on the radio was Andy St John since he didn't kill him. That'd be a horrible ending. Lee bursts into the Marsh House only to find Andy eating what's left of Clementine. :eek:
  • edited January 2013
    My cousin actually thought the guy on the radio was Andy St John since he didn't kill him. That'd be a horrible ending. Lee bursts into the Marsh House only to find Andy eating what's left of Clementine. :eek:

    Tell me about it, thats why i had to make sure he was dead by killing him myself! :D
  • edited January 2013
    I think that killing the brothers-cannibals it's akt of mercy, because its better death, then eating alive by walkers.
  • edited January 2013
    Danny wasn't getting out of that trap alive. Andy had given up all will to live and accepted his fate, even begging Lee to finish him.
  • edited January 2013
    It's all down to the journey isn't it? The game isn't so much about how it ends but rather how we feel about what we did, much like real life.

    Maybe killing them is merciful, personally I'd love to watch them get torn to shreds by walkers but I'm satisfied knowing they are dead.

    Koi is right though, they pretty much are defeated. I doubt even if everything went well for them that between the incoming walkers and the bandits they would present much of a threat to anyone anymore.
  • edited January 2013
    Honestly I thought killing Andy was the only choice! After killing his brother and mother, then telling him they are dead, which he would only guess you did it! Killing him was probably the most humane thing to do in that scenario giving the events surrounding. He knew he was defeated and well after the ass whooping he takes he wanted to die, which is why he asked Lee to "come back and face me like a man" or something of that variation. If you didn't kill Andy it would be the equivalent of Charles Manson making you watch as he slaughters your family then just leaves you alive to tell the story which no one ends up believing.
  • edited January 2013
    No way Andy survives. He lost his will to live. Not to mention I totally destroyed his face, and no one wants to survive looking like that.
  • edited January 2013
    I spared both of them in my first(canon) playthrough, and I spared Andy on my second one but killed Danny. I think it would've been best if I killed them both instead of just one .______. It is likely that he could've outrun the walkers and seek for revenge. Doesn't matter, Lee's dead anyways =.=
  • edited January 2013
    Nah, I had seen enough bloodshed in the meat locker when Kenny killed Larry. I spared Danny. I also spared Andy because he wanted Lee to kill him. Besides, I pushed him to the electric fence. He wouldn't be going anywhere in his condition.
  • edited January 2013
    double_u wrote: »
    When Andy St. John challenged Lee "to fight him like a man" he was basically asking to get killed. He was already badly injured from the initial beating. The whole group was there to back Lee up as well. There was no way he could've beat Lee, and he knew it. It was kinda like a "suicide by cop" scenario. From that scene, I decided that Andy was broken and wanted to die. So, I decided to let the walkers finish him. It was basically two birds with one stone IMHO - walkers still kill Andy while I walk away looking like the better man to my group, especially for Clem. However, if there were no walkers converging on the farm, I would've killed Andy just to be safe and out of retribution.

    The final scene at the diary farm is a really good scene.

    But you don't see the walkers getting in until AFTER you make the choice, at the time when you leave him you have no reason to think he'll die shortly anyway.
  • edited January 2013
    Yertos wrote: »
    But you don't see the walkers getting in until AFTER you make the choice, at the time when you leave him you have no reason to think he'll die shortly anyway.

    Thank you! I have seen way too many people say "the walkers would have gotten him anyway". They don't have psychic powers. They didn't know the walkers would come and get him if they left him.
  • edited January 2013
    dustpuffs wrote: »
    Thank you! I have seen way too many people say "the walkers would have gotten him anyway". They don't have psychic powers. They didn't know the walkers would come and get him if they left him.

    There's no reason not to think they wouldn't. There are a minimum of two gunshots fired, and they're a decent distance apart from each other. That's plenty of time for walkers to arrive. It's also proven that they're already in the vicinity before the fight begins(one walks up to the fence before being taken down with an axe or something by Carley, unsure in Doug's case). On top of that, we already know they can topple the fences if enough of them pile onto it.

    What do you think Andy's immediate goal would be if spared? Charge after Lee and his group of several armed adults, go searching for his zombified mother(i doubt he would be able to kill her upon recognition, at least initially), search for his brother who is in a trap with no release latch(and may already be dead/walker) or quickly get gas to the generators so the walkers don't get in.

    He has the potential to be shot in the ear(?) and either severely beaten or(in my case) electrified on the fence. That would probably put him into a somewhat weakened state, and with walkers already in the area it makes sense that he'd die before he could recover. On top of that he doesn't see Danny or Brenda, only what Lee says(They're dead/They're not coming). He would probably look for them to try to save them, and likely be killed by them.
  • edited January 2013
    Well, I reasoned like this:
    When I had to decide what to do with Danny, I offed him right away. He was still a threat in a beartrap, he could have shouted and warned his brother, gotten loose and found a gun etc. He was a threat. I neutralized that threat.

    When I had to decide what to do with Andy, he wasn't a threat anymore. He was defenseless. I decided that I don't do senseless murders. It's not like a walker more or less will make any impact on everyday life. What will make an impact on everyday life is the whole group watching me killing someone where it's not required.
  • MSGMSG
    edited January 2013
    I usually start to walk away after beating him to a pulp, then turn back and spartan kick him into the fence. Feels good, man.
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