Killing off **** was a bad idea

edited February 2013 in The Walking Dead
Don't get me wrong, it makes for a great story and all that, but game wise it doesn't make sense. Most games you get a character and thats your role. Now its pretty much like just make me play a bunch of characters because it really doesn't matter anymore. It just sets up season two for failure, assuming they continue with the story from season 1. Which I'm pretty sure is what's gonna happen (not saying it won't be good, just not as good).

Personally for me, I see it as was Lee was me (my character in this story) now that he's dead essentially my role in this story is over. No matter how I see season 2 going, I don't think I'll have the same attachment to the game. Unless they just make a completely new story with all new characters. Which would still suck, for me at least (I'd like to know what happens to Clem at the end)

Wether I'm a new character, who ends up being Clementines new guardian, I'd want to play it like I was lee (whom I'm not). If I take the role of Clementine then it would just feel weird. Regardless of the role, sans, lee just ruins it. Personally, I feel it would have been a smarter Idea to kill Clementine. Glad they didn't. But it makes more sense game wise.

Your thoughts.. ?
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Comments

  • edited January 2013
    Jeenyus wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, it makes for a great story and all that, but game wise it doesn't make sense. Most games you get a character and thats your role. Now its pretty much like just make me play a bunch of characters because it really doesn't matter anymore. It just sets up season two for failure, assuming they continue with the story from season 1. Which I'm pretty sure is what's gonna happen (not saying it won't be good, just not as good).

    Personally for me, I see it as was Lee was me (my character in this story) now that he's dead essentially my role in this story is over. No matter how I see season 2 going, I don't think I'll have the same attachment to the game. Unless they just make a completely new story with all new characters. Which would still suck, for me at least (I'd like to know what happens to Clem at the end)

    Wether I'm a new character, who ends up being Clementines new guardian, I'd want to play it like I was lee (whom I'm not). If I take the role of Clementine then it would just feel weird. Regardless of the role, sans, lee just ruins it. Personally, I feel it would have been a smarter Idea to kill Clementine. Glad they didn't. But it makes more sense game wise.

    Your thoughts.. ?

    Their are a few games, where you play another character in every part of it, so that is not a real question for me. I would still not be unhappy, if we would never hear of Clem again and just keep it at that, to be honest.

    When you were this attached to Lee and you are not able to play ever another Charakter in a Walking Dead (from Telltale of course) game again, you should maybe don't buy season two, since yes, it could happen again.
  • edited January 2013
    Jeenyus wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, it makes for a great story and all that, but game wise it doesn't make sense. Most games you get a character and thats your role. Now its pretty much like just make me play a bunch of characters because it really doesn't matter anymore. It just sets up season two for failure, assuming they continue with the story from season 1. Which I'm pretty sure is what's gonna happen (not saying it won't be good, just not as good).

    Personally for me, I see it as was Lee was me (my character in this story) now that he's dead essentially my role in this story is over. No matter how I see season 2 going, I don't think I'll have the same attachment to the game. Unless they just make a completely new story with all new characters. Which would still suck, for me at least (I'd like to know what happens to Clem at the end)

    Wether I'm a new character, who ends up being Clementines new guardian, I'd want to play it like I was lee (whom I'm not). If I take the role of Clementine then it would just feel weird. Regardless of the role, sans, lee just ruins it. Personally, I feel it would have been a smarter Idea to kill Clementine. Glad they didn't. But it makes more sense game wise.

    Your thoughts.. ?

    It was a great idea to kill him in the end, im gonna miss him like hell but it made for the best story.
  • edited January 2013
    They had to do it so I could cry and become depressed for a month.
    :cool:
  • edited January 2013
    I agree. It would have been a good idea only IF they were not going to have a season 2. I will never be as attached to those characters than the season 1 characters. I think it makes a compelling story, but they should have done it at the end of season 2 if they wanted to continue the story.
  • edited January 2013
    Yeah, i think same, that was really bad idea. I was very attached to him, and i don't think, i will like any Season 2 character like him... Anyway, this is hard for me...
  • edited January 2013
    Why do people keep saying they couldn't possibly get as attached to new characters as they were to the ones in the first season when you've only known the characters from the first season for just one game?

    I mean, Lee was character created just for this game. He hadn't appeared anywhere else is any of series or part of The Walking Dead. He was a new character, Telltale crafted a great story that made you care about him and now his story is finished.

    What makes you think they won't be able to do it again with new characters?
  • edited January 2013
    Because I am already attached to Lee, I don't want to have to meet an entirely new set of characters. No one gives a fuck about new characters when they first come out. Sure, I would eventually warm up to them, but because Lee was the first I played as, he will always be my favorite. Besides, it is like other games. Civ 4 was better than Civ 3, but I will always like Civ 3 better because it was the first I play. Anyway I doubt Telltale will be able to live up to a character like Lee. That is your answer.
  • edited January 2013
    I agree, Telltale could've done something better
  • edited January 2013
    I would have preferred to see Lee make it through season one, but I always considered it a strong possibility that he would not, seeing as no character is held sacred in the world of the Walking Dead. I understand people's attachment to the character, but I fully believe Telltale's writers are capable of creating another character that is just as likable for season two (though only time will truly tell).

    My biggest problem with Lee's death was not that he died at the end of episode 5, but rather that he was effectively dead at the end of episode 4. The suddenness of Lee's bite coupled with a month long cliffhanger resulted in me uninvesting in the character almost completely by the time episode 5 showed up. Thus Lee's demise and the finale were all somewhat underwhelming in my eyes; eyes that were as dry a Churchill martini.
  • edited January 2013
    You're kidding about killing Clementine off right? The entire game was basically ABOUT protecting Clementine.. And I think they made the right move with killing Lee because I think that giving his life to protect Clem "redeems" him from that murder he committed prior to the zombie apocalypse. It's like Kenny. He felt like he wasn't the dad that he could have been to Duck or the husband he couldn't be to Katjaa, so he felt like he needed to sacrifice his life so that Ben didn't have to suffer. If you think about it and really go in depth with it, you would know that Lee's death was one of the most brilliant moves that TellTale did in this game. I know it sucks that Lee died and I used to be in denial too, but I learned to accept the fact that he will most likely not be coming back.
  • edited January 2013
    You say you'd feel like "playing like you were Lee," if in the second game your role is to play a second, new guardian to Clem.

    My question to you:
    Who is Lee?

    There are several possible versions of Lee you can be depending on your choices during Game 1.
  • edited January 2013
    It seems to me that your issue is playing the same role with a different character. Basically, you don't want a rehash of season one. I agree with that, but disagree with your conclusion (that killing Lee was a bad move). It seems to me that you just need a new role. How about you no longer play Clementine's guardian in season 2? After all, Lee prepared her to deal with the hardships of the new world. She doesn't need that kind of protection anymore. She can be a full group member now; able to have her own input on things, her own ideas for problem solving, her own disagreements, her own job when things go south, etc.
  • edited January 2013
    You're kidding about killing Clementine off right? The entire game was basically ABOUT protecting Clementine.. And I think they made the right move with killing Lee because I think that giving his life to protect Clem "redeems" him from that murder he committed prior to the zombie apocalypse. It's like Kenny. He felt like he wasn't the dad that he could have been to Duck or the husband he couldn't be to Katjaa, so he felt like he needed to sacrifice his life so that Ben didn't have to suffer. If you think about it and really go in depth with it, you would know that Lee's death was one of the most brilliant moves that TellTale did in this game. I know it sucks that Lee died and I used to be in denial too, but I learned to accept the fact that he will most likely not be coming back.

    I completely agree! When I figured it out that he would die, I was like fuck thats bull crap! Cause like most I became attached and felt Clem was my little girl now despite what other think, since Im black and she is either White or Asian ( i couldnt really figure it out). But I do think in season 2 that we will be playing a much older teenage Clem. I think that either there will be a prolouge release prior to season 2 which shows what happens to Clem in the end when shes sitting on that log in the meadows, or it will be part of season 2's episode 1! I would actually like them to stick with some of the same characters from season 1! give it more depth and you will surely get attached. lets face it, the goal of the comics and tv series for the characters that are important is to ultimately get you attached to those characters and have emotions and some feeling for them.SPOILER Like in the comics when Ricks wife and new born die at the prison.

    :cool:
  • edited January 2013
    Putting myself in Lee's shoes, I would do anything to save Clementine. She's my responsibility and I can't let her die. Although Lee's death made me depressed for a while, I felt that he was able to redeem himself by protecting this girl and he did all that he could.
    It would have been nice if they both lived though. So much for wanting a happy ending =.='
  • edited January 2013
    I thought it was brilliant that they killed off Lee.

    He had always protected Clementine and at the end of it, was practically given a death sentence and forced to let her go. When Lee got bitten, I felt his anguish. Part of it was because he was going to die, but the biggest reason was because he could no longer protect Clementine to personally ensure her safety and survival.

    Everything he did was for her. When she cried for him to get up when he clearly couldn't, he did it - all for her. His anxiety and concern of Clementine's well-being over his was made even clearer when Clementine was attacked by the security guard Walker and he was helpless to go to her aid.

    Yet as the game comes to a close, Lee did all he could to make sure he taught Clementine whatever he could from their dire situation... he was her protector right up to the end, and successfully moulded her into a survivor who will not be helpless in face of danger.

    But I think the lesson is also that nothing is for permanent, especially in a zombie apocalypse world. It was also about the maturing of Clementine from one who is protected to one who can protect herself (the scene of her killing the Walker and arming herself) without Lee. Seeing that, Lee can go in peace.

    Because of this very strong connection and relationship between Lee and Clementine, which clearly affected the players as well, his death made the ending shine.

    Players always feel the sense of accomplishment when they complete a game, but won't necessarily be too emotionally involved. This was an ending that achieved both. What more can you ask for? :D
  • edited January 2013
    You're kidding about killing Clementine off right? The entire game was basically ABOUT protecting Clementine.. And I think they made the right move with killing Lee because I think that giving his life to protect Clem "redeems" him from that murder he committed prior to the zombie apocalypse. It's like Kenny. He felt like he wasn't the dad that he could have been to Duck or the husband he couldn't be to Katjaa, so he felt like he needed to sacrifice his life so that Ben didn't have to suffer. If you think about it and really go in depth with it, you would know that Lee's death was one of the most brilliant moves that TellTale did in this game. I know it sucks that Lee died and I used to be in denial too, but I learned to accept the fact that he will most likely not be coming back.

    Right, the game is about protecting Clementine. "As lee". I completely agree, killing off lee is the best ending for the story. But again this is a game at the end of the day, not a tv show or a book. Yes some games you jump from character to character, but this is pretty much story based and you're given one guy to be. If they just made an entirely new story without any connection to season 1, then I'd be fine just being a different character. I'd be curious to what happened to Clementine and what not but continuing on a second season with a new character, following the same group of people (whoever is left alive) would just feel unnatural without being "Lee".

    I'm sure if they did just continue on and add a new character for you to play as, in time I'd grow to like them. I just doubt I'll enjoy the overall experience as much.

    Again this is just my personal opinion
  • edited January 2013
    Platinumb wrote: »
    You say you'd feel like "playing like you were Lee," if in the second game your role is to play a second, new guardian to Clem.

    My question to you:
    Who is Lee?

    There are several possible versions of Lee you can be depending on your choices during Game 1.

    The very fact that you get to help create a unique "Lee" is part of the reason it would feel off being someone else. If you ended up in the same role as a new guardian to Clem, just seems like most people would adopt most of the same traits they used in the previous game. Basically just a knock off Lee. Not very satisfying.

    I highly doubt they'd want to end up doing the same thing, so I really don't see that happening but regardless, for me it would feel weird not being lee not being that guardian role for clem (as him) and just being someone who is just part of the group now and may or may not be overall concerned about her character.
  • edited January 2013
    While I am very optimistic about the future of the series, I am also concerned that they might have killed Lee off too early and that they won't be able to duplicate the Lee-Clementine dynamic from season 1.

    Great characters aren't easy to create and TTG took a big risk killing off such an excellent character so early in their series. We see this happen a lot on TV shows when a major character is killed off, some shows come back stronger than ever while others can never recover from the loss. I look forward to seeing what TTG can come up for S2 to replace Lee.
  • edited January 2013
    As I've said in the past, for me, the problem isn't so much that Lee croaked. I was expecting that from the get-go since it's currently the "in" thing to kill off the protagonist and from a writing standpoint, sadness is the easiest emotion to evoke. It was the manner, it really came across as forced. The "Lee gets bitten" scene even looks awkward if you have Lee check the garbage pile first... and I'm positive I couldn't have been the only one that knew what was going to happen when they saw that pile near the walkie-talkie at the end of Episode 4.
  • edited January 2013
    Killing off Lee was brilliant and its the thing that made the game so memorable. Season 2 might not be as good as season 1, but why does it have to be? Besides, maybe we play as Clem in season 2, and I care about Clem a big deal.
  • edited January 2013
    i think by episode 3 i realised that Lee wasn't me, but he was a character i was getting to know and all i was doing was choosing from options he thought of in his head that he saw as equally good options but he couldn't decide on which was best.

    if i had designed his character and picked his back story then lee would be my character (or me) and his death would have been stupid and ruined it because i would not have done all the things that he did to lead to his death, but because Lee wasn't me it was easier to accept things that he did that i thought were wrong.

    i think as long as they make another good story Lee's death is not a bad idea
  • edited January 2013
    Killing off Lee was genius, it closed his arc perfectly. His redemption was complete in looking after Clementine and giving her everything.
  • edited January 2013
    It gives the game the great impact! So yes! It’s no happy tale. By telltale!
  • edited January 2013
    The character was indeed unique..He was actually the best character in all Video Games.
  • edited January 2013
    Having Lee getting bit the way he was in episode 4 was a bad idea, but having him being bitten and taken out of the game wasn't.

    Just my humble opinion.
  • edited January 2013
    It was like how do we get him get bitten.. It was not a great moment it happened so fast it wasn’t spectacular at all…
  • edited January 2013
    kevinStark wrote: »
    It was like how do we get him get bitten.. It was not a great moment it happened so fast it wasn’t spectacular at all…

    It shouldn't have been a spectacular moment, i think. It wouldn't fit the theme of the universe. They probably could have gotten away with Lee slicing through the herd of zombies and one gets the bite on him as escapes, but the way it actually happened is probably much more likely in the realm of TWD. A fancy goodbye or final farewell speech would have been a tad off.

    No matter how tough or experienced you are, one simple mistake can just end it all.
  • edited January 2013
    I don't really agree.
    There are a lot of game series that don't offer your old character in the new game. The Fallout series, I don't believe you're ever the same person from one game to the next? (Admittedly, I have much less experience with the first two than the last two.)
    And to be honest, I wasn't attached to Lee right from the get go. He won me over during the second half of the first episode and on, but first starting out, he was interesting and all, but if he had died, it wouldn't have mattered. But me and my hubby both expected him to die pretty early on. We figured Lee or Clem one would be dying, and I didn't think TTG would actually want to kill a little girl. :P (Fictional or otherwise! lol)
    I just think that because they have such a powerful way of storytelling that we will all grow to love the new cast and/or storyline. I don't think there will be any shortages of "Lee was better" or "We miss Clem" threads, but I think, for the most part, people will like the new season.
  • edited February 2013
    Mornai wrote: »
    It shouldn't have been a spectacular moment, i think. It wouldn't fit the theme of the universe. They probably could have gotten away with Lee slicing through the herd of zombies and one gets the bite on him as escapes, but the way it actually happened is probably much more likely in the realm of TWD. A fancy goodbye or final farewell speech would have been a tad off.

    No matter how tough or experienced you are, one simple mistake can just end it all.

    Except Lee did basically get a final farewell/goodbye speech. :p

    Pretty much any scenario I can think of for the bite would've been just as, if not more plausible than the one we got; particularly if your Lee was observant and tried to check behind the rubbish first. Odds are you're more likely to get bit tangling with multiple zombies (e.g. during the bell tower escape) than a solitary one simply by virtue of math. If somebody could see the bite scenario coming from the safety of home, there's no way that a person living in the environment for months wouldn't see it coming either.
  • edited February 2013
    Listen people. Killing off Lee was a good idea. But either do it, and don't have a season 2, or make him survive then kill him off then. Don't kill of the characters that everyone gets attached to then make another game, because I will never be attached in the same way.
  • edited February 2013
    Yeah but season 2 is a new story. It would be lame if you were Lee all over again in the 2nd season.
  • edited February 2013
    Desmodus87 wrote: »
    There are a lot of game series that don't offer your old character in the new game. The Fallout series, I don't believe you're ever the same person from one game to the next? (Admittedly, I have much less experience with the first two than the last two.)

    Correct. You play a different protagonist in each game. In Fallout 2, you are a descendant of the main character from the first game.
  • edited February 2013
    Inconsu. wrote: »
    Yeah but season 2 is a new story. It would be lame if you were Lee all over again in the 2nd season.

    It isn't a whole new story, it will have some of the same characters I think
  • edited February 2013
    Maybe lee isnt dead.If they are using data from S1 for S2 then what if you chop lees arm off and hand cuff zombie instead of lee.he just weak from having arm chopped/loss o blood.
    He lives aka Murle.He made it with 1 arm why cant lee.
  • JenniferJennifer Moderator
    edited February 2013
    I edited the title so it doesn't spoil the game for people who still haven't played. Remember not to post spoilers in titles, since they show in the main forum and under new posts.
    Maybe lee isnt dead.If they are using data from S1 for S2 then what if you chop lees arm off and hand cuff zombie instead of lee.he just weak from having arm chopped/loss o blood.
    He lives aka Murle.He made it with 1 arm why cant lee.
    Lee wouldn't survive in either situation. He had his arm cut off too late. The people who lived in The Walking Dead television show and comics had their infected areas cut off immediately. At least half an hour passed before Lee had his cut off. The zombie bacteria already got into his bloodstream by that point.
  • edited February 2013
    I really want him to survive, in my opinion, it was really bad idea to kill him. Best character ever and he get bitten that way... Oh god.
  • edited February 2013
    Rambo297 wrote: »
    I really want him to survive, in my opinion, it was really bad idea to kill him.
    Leaving Lee alive or saving him would not have made the game(season 1) as memorable and heartbreaking as it was in my opinion . But I guess many other people may see this in a different way.
  • edited February 2013
    Leaving Lee alive or saving him would not have made the game(season 1) as memorable and heartbreaking as it was in my opinion . But I guess many other people may see this in a different way.

    As I said it makes for a great ending, but I feel the same affect could have been achieved with killing Clementine(not that I'd prefer that). It would have been better if they just went with a whole new cast for season two. Which isn't going to be the case, seeing as they're carrying over saves from the previous season. With a character as malleable as Lee, assuming they want the same kind of feel for the game and you're a knew character, people will just end up creating a cheap version of him. I'm sure everyone will come to love the knew character they come up with after a little bit but I feel as though season two would have been better with Lee in it(see what happens I guess).

    And addressing the whole fallout thing, yes there are games which you don't keep the same character, but there are plenty in which you do. In fallout I don't think there are any of the same characters from its predecessors(not 100% on that). On top of that for the most part you're a lone wolf. And the other characters you do meet don't have much development. Never really get attached to them. Including your own. Not a very good example in my opinion.

    In a game so heavily character based & story driven, it just makes more sense to me to keep the players character intact if you're going to continue on with the same story.
  • edited February 2013
    Jeenyus wrote: »
    In a game so heavily character based & story driven, it just makes more sense to me to keep the players character intact if you're going to continue on with the same story.

    It won't be the same story, it'll be someone else's story. And that's a good thing.
  • edited February 2013
    Leaving Lee alive or saving him would not have made the game(season 1) as memorable and heartbreaking as it was in my opinion . But I guess many other people may see this in a different way.

    That's true, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the best decision for the series going forward. TTG may have sacrificed some of the long term quality of the story in favor of a shocking death in S1. They could have killed Lee in any season and it would have been just as shocking, memorable, and heartbreaking.

    Obviously, we won't know if this was a good decision or not until season 2 and we see what new characters/story TTG is able to create. I'm confident in their ability to bring us another excellent story, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little worried that they won't be able to recreate the success from S1.
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