If it isn't a game ...
We know that some characters have some level of plot armour as we play the game, but in real life, anything can happen. In life, there aren't any Season Twos to continue a character.
So, if you were Lee and knowing that Clementine will be without a protector after you're gone, which is just a few minutes away, would you do what the couple did in the mansion - putting a bullet in Clementine's head before putting one in your own?
I know it's disturbing to even think about doing that to a child, but the odds of Clem surviving are really low, unless she finds another protector like yourself, in a city of Walkers, with Vernon already out at sea, and Christa and Omid nowhere to be found.
Even assuming that you know that the Walker scent on her will offer her "invisibility" till she gets out of the city, any number of cruel things could happen to a little 9-year-old girl without a protector. She's still not ready to fend for herself yet, as she only just got rescued after being tricked into trusting Campman. She's really still just a naive little girl. Will you, out of compassion, end her life quickly and painlessly there and then?
So, if you were Lee and knowing that Clementine will be without a protector after you're gone, which is just a few minutes away, would you do what the couple did in the mansion - putting a bullet in Clementine's head before putting one in your own?
I know it's disturbing to even think about doing that to a child, but the odds of Clem surviving are really low, unless she finds another protector like yourself, in a city of Walkers, with Vernon already out at sea, and Christa and Omid nowhere to be found.
Even assuming that you know that the Walker scent on her will offer her "invisibility" till she gets out of the city, any number of cruel things could happen to a little 9-year-old girl without a protector. She's still not ready to fend for herself yet, as she only just got rescued after being tricked into trusting Campman. She's really still just a naive little girl. Will you, out of compassion, end her life quickly and painlessly there and then?
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Comments
Seriously?
She knows how a gun works, if it gets too difficult for her she can do herself in. I won't make that choice for anyone.
It's for the same reason i saved Ben: it is not my right to decide when someone should die.
I would never raise my gun up to her,... for whatever reason, unless she was bit and it were her very last minutes before turning.
This. Anyone wants to opt-out, that's their choice. It's not my choice to decide it's time for someone else to opt-out.
Go, Mornai! I agree, it'd take majority of opinion for me to kill anyone, the only one I questioned to kill was Ben, and that was because he wanted to. But... apparently he wanted to live, since he came with me instead of jumping to his death himself.
I would NEVER do that to Clem. You can't just give up hope, and you can't let someone end their life because it gets hard. Like Kenny had said to beat it out, and keep fighting to the end. Not to give in and just to die. To last as long as you can, and live for those you care about.
Clem would have to do it herself, and only if she couldn't, if she was hurt, and crying for me to end her, would I say goodbye and let her die in peace. Otherwise, I couldn't have the heart to. I don't even know if I could shoot her if she were to become a walker. I don't think I'd have the heart.
People can't give up. It'd shame me alone to see Clem want to quit, to lose her personality, to lose herself to this world. It'd be so sad, and I'd hate for it to happen. I'll protect her innocence to the best of my ability. That I promise!
I never gave up hope that our group would make it. I realized most of us would probably be dead, but I almost always tried to keep hope alive in Clem and everyone else. Clem is the last member of the Macon group. Everything Lee fought and died for since the apocalypse. I'm not making all the sacrifices worthless by capping her because I think it "might" be "mercy".
Then maybe better to let stranger care about her, and let him to kill you? And Clementine will never know that it's someone was looking for her. How do we know that she will be able to loose away from the city? How do we know that she will find a group? I'm seriously. This is the real test of love to her. But why kill the child?
Okey. And what next? What will bring you your pride? She will die. Bravo! No chance of survival. Survival implies - survive at any cost. We must to use any chances to survive!
That's Stranger talk right there. Seriously, he says those same words! Don't become what you go against.
If Lee can teach her not to trust strangers, then you wouldn't need to worry too much about something like this happening. Especially if she's in the countryside, the odds of someone sneaking up on her are decreased.
Yes, Clementine is not stupid, if she will feel a sense of danger, (after that stranger take her out of the crowd of zombies out of Savannah), she will find a way to escape from a stranger .
Exactly.
They're free to take themselves out or have someone else do it if they so desire, i won't stop them. I just won't do it myself.
Either way, if someone was asking it of you, would it be more ethical to just watch people suffer when they aren't able to do it themselves? Like seeing someone engulfed in flame and burning to death? Or someone like Ben who was impaled and imminently facing being eaten alive?
With Irene, she's asking for Carley's gun. Carley doesn't want to give it to her, so she shouldn't have to. Plus, every bullet counts. With Ben, his fate is placed in your hands. You're pretty much killing him directly by dropping him. In the second scenario, Ben never requests that you kill him, he just wants you to kill the walkers so they can't get to him.
If someone was on fire, they should at least know how to stop, drop and roll. I'd rather be finding a water source or some other means of extinguishing the flame instead of immediately murdering them.
I think I'd be like Kenny if you tell him to shoot Duck but remain silent when he tries to. Even if i wanted to, i wouldn't be able to do it...
She trusts you, turns around and you just shoot her in the back of the head? Don't you think you should have a last talk, and calm her down, and tell her: "When you first pass out... I'll end it, you won't suffer..." then wait till she first passes out like Lee in the hospital, because most likely from that point she's lost, and then... do it?
I mean I get why you say what you say, you don't want her to worry about the whole thing, and just "surprise" her, but that doesn't seem like the right way to me, but it's up to everybody themselves.
If Clemmy got bit, I'd comfort her until she passed. I'd be there with her until she passed. Then I'd destroy the brain. If there was any way I could save her, I'd do so.
I don't even know what I'd do, that would be the toughest decision there could be, if there is any chance at all, that there might be some way to save her, and I just shot her, while the answer was just around the corner, I couldn't forgive myself, on the other hand, how are the odds to find such a "cure"? Could I let her suffer for such a long time, see her spitting blood, caughing blood, and all that shit Duck went through, I don't know, probably it's for the best to try and go on for as long as we can...
The point is as you said: "If there was any way..." and it's not even sure that there isn't, on the other hand the odds are very small to find one.
tough call... tough call...
Ben says "Don't let them get me." You have less than a few bullets left, and there was no bloody way he was getting out of there without dying from blood loss. So you're either shooting him, or leaving him for walkers, that's the gist of it. I doubt that everyone who's ever burned to death just wasn't smart enough start rolling, but alright. Hopefully you have a hose on-hand, and the medical prowess to treat fourth-degree burns.
And I'm sure Ben would take comfort in you keeping your hands clean at the potential ramification of being left in an alley to be torn apart.
I can only speak for myself, but I didn't put Irene out of her misery because she was a stranger and appeared mentally unstable, all of which made her unpredictable. How do I know she won't decide, "Well, world's gone to shit. Might as well help everyone around me opt out too before I blow my own brains out!"
Remember, Irene asked to borrow the gun and then basically lunged for the pistol as soon as we said no. I will never give someone I don't know, especially one who seemed to be cracking, a gun as a matter of safety to me and my group.
Either way, I'd want as much time with her as I could have. And I'm sure she'd like the same. I wouldn't shoot her until she stopped breathing. But yeah, if there was the slightest chance, I'd take it. If I could remove the bite, I'd do it, even though I'd feel bad for removing one of her cute little arms. I'd feel bad, but it's always better than death(unless the walkers get you).
I will tell terrible thing, but I agree with you. This is the best way to relieve Clem from suffering, if she would be bitten.
We have a proverb in our country: " Long goodbye - it's more tears".
Attempts to explain to her that it will necessary, and the last goodbye, will bring her more pain, the heartache.
But how the PC (me) will live after that?
If she was bitten, I'd cut her limb off like Grey Fox cuts off Ocelot's arm in MGS1. You want me to shoot her? Ok, but don't expect me to buy the next season, or get out of bed for a week, lol.
To those statements I fully agree.
That's the cruel thing about apocalypses, "right" and "wrong" are terms of no real meaning any more, they are replaced by "pragmatism" "optimism" and "pessimism" I try to see everything from the bright side, so I guess I would not shoot her until she really stopped breathing, we can't give up hope, because without hope... what's left in such a world? Seeing everything from the dark side won't help anything, in the end - pain or not - removing the bite is the way to go, and waiting to the very end is better than ending it too fast.
Whether she suffers or not, when she is dead in the end, that doesn't matter any more, then it is over once and for all, and hopefully that little angel can find the peace she deserves. I'd probably get to someplace safe with her, and have a long talk, try to cheer her up and... stuff... and when everything is over, I'd make sure she wouldn't turn. But I'm still not 100% sure... only 99%
Not a nice thing to talk or think about, I just hope it never comes to that in S2... or it will be a veeery long night.
Even if those are the only options for Ben, it's clear right up to his death that killing him is not something going through his head. At most I'd give him the gun and take off, and he'll decide his own fate. With Irene, it's not my gun so it's not my decision, plain and simple. The fire situation is far too circumstantial and my reaction cannot be decided beforehand. Too many variables.
Not only that, but just the concept of living. Why erase her from the Earth yourself? Do you not understand the amount of power you just used? Whether one believes in gods or not; I feel one thing is certain: Death is death. The moment you pull the trigger will be her last moment. Could you deal with that? And the fact that you didn't say goodbye? Yes, it would be a very sad moment, but I think you would live happier knowing she spent her last moments with you.
Would Clem be suffering? I think she'd feel much worse if she knew someone she loved ended her without her approval or recognition of the event, or even so much as a goodbye. I know I'd feel like shit if she could see me from the beyond. You don't just end it because it is hard, you end it when you must, when there is no other way. When she dies/and or turns, then end her life. But if she had been bitten and there was nothing I could do, I would let her last moments, her final memory, be of me taking care of her and spending time with her, being there for her until her time came. I think that would say a greater "I love you" that anything, the fact that you hold out with her knowing that she will make it. I feel that shooting her while her back was turned would make me feel like a coward and a sorry excuse for a guardian/parent. That I had killed her because I felt I wouldn't be able to handle her passing, or that she should be "put down" to keep her from pain of knowing she would die. If I chose the easy way out for her, just what would that bring? Nothing good, I'd presume. I just don't think it'd be right, for me or her.
I agree. I am not a drinker, nor would I ever see myself as one, but that? Oye... hand me the bottle. I'll show you how fast I can chug
Wait, you're defense is that Ben wasn't really thinking about it rationally, so it's best to give up one of the last guns, leave it on his chest, and book it.
Die horribly or die quickly a bit sooner, there's no real choice to make there. Considering that the decision shouldn't be based on prioritizing your own complacency, all you'd be doing is forcing his last moments to be a panic of trying to muster up the willpower to pull the trigger.
Something that Charles said.."she's not a little girl...she's a living person". My only regret is that I can no longer be her partner but will always be her protector. Clem is armed, trained and smart. She will be fine.
I'd be very similar to Ben as a whole in a zombie apocalypse. He can't even muster the courage to cut off Lee's arm, and i wouldn't be able to either. So the options are:
1. Ben dies with a chance to end it himself, or
2. We both die as i hesitate the pull the trigger.
I wouldn't be proud of it, but i would have to choose the former.
Not a happy thought but it is best for all. Most of all Clem. I could not let my sweet pea suffer.