You know one thing about Ben-haters, I don't get is- Clementine caused more deaths than Ben. Yet she isn't hated because well WHO COULD HATE THIS?
But also she was a child, but I freakin' wished Ben could have been kept the same as Telltale originally was planning to do with him I mean I think Ben's cool but there were some moments even I wanted to just leave him but I couldn't because of my conscious (God I hate that thing).
How does Clementine have a larger body count then Ben? At most she killed five people, and that is at best and three are unknown. Ben at most has nine even though I don't count some of them. Were are you getting these numbers? Sorry if I sound rude I just want to know.
How does Clementine have a larger body count then Ben? At most she killed five people, and that is at best and three are unknown. Ben at most has nine even though I don't count some of them. Were are you getting these numbers? Sorry if I sound rude I just want to know.
Clementine technically got Kenny, Lee, Chuck, Ben, and Brie killed. However I honestly don't count any of these.
Ben apparently got Duck and Katjaa (Which I don't count) Brie (I count that)
Molly (Detriment so it's un-counted for plus we never see her die) Kenny (Don't count)
I can't really think of anyone else, but I know there's more for Ben.
You could count Carley because he said nothing, and Chuck is a option due to him doing nothing. Surprisingly I don't hate him, he just screws up a lot like me sometimes.
Wait, how in the heck did Clementine kill Brie or Chuck? Both of tem are on Ben's head. I find it hard to be able to blame Clem for Chuck's death, because the line "being surrounded by zombies in the street was obviously her own fault" doesn't fly with me. Ben left her there, so Chuck had to come and save her. If Ben had just, you know, grabbed her hand, Chuck might still be alive.
And in Crawford, Brie doesn't die because you took the time to let Clem vote, she dies because Ben lets dozens of walkers into the school through his incompetence. If Brie lived if you left Clem at the house, it'd be a different story, but I left Clem and she still got her guts ripped out.
Clem has, at most, Lee, Kenny, and Ben (Determinant). That's 3. I dropped Ben in my game, so for me it's actually 2. Ben has Duck, Carley/Doug, Katjaa, Chuck, and Brie in every playthrough. That's 5.
Wait, how in the heck did Clementine kill Brie or Chuck? Both of tem are on Ben's head. I find it hard to be able to blame Clem for Chuck's death, because the line "being surrounded by zombies in the street was obviously her own fault" doesn't fly with me. Ben left her there, so Chuck had to come and save her. If Ben had just, you know, grabbed her hand, Chuck might still be alive.
And in Crawford, Brie doesn't die because you took the time to let Clem vote, she dies because Ben lets dozens of walkers into the school through his incompetence. If Brie lived if you left Clem at the house, it'd be a different story, but I left Clem and she still got her guts ripped out.
Clem has, at most, Lee, Kenny, and Ben (Determinant). That's 3. I dropped Ben in my game, so for me it's actually 2. Ben has Duck, Carley/Doug, Katjaa, Chuck, and Brie in every playthrough. That's 5.
Agreed....the body count for every non-directly caused death has no true answer, and it depends on who you decide needs to shoulder the burden.
It pisses me off when people snap at people for hating Ben. The game literally wants you to hate him so exxcccuuussseee me if I do. God knows he's done enough shit to deserve said hate, I mean seriously.
"Maybe you're fine with having someone else's blood on your hands..."
Fucking the biggest douche thing to say. He's aware Lee's killed in the past, he's aware that it's a touchy subject with Lee, but still he says that. After I tried to fucking help the kid. You got my fucking closest friend killed and despite me trying to help you, you continue to act like an asshole. Like what the fuck is your problem, if I got half the group killed I'd at least try to act like a decent human being.
It pisses me off when people snap at people for hating Ben. The game literally wants you to hate him so exxcccuuussseee me if I do. God knows he's done enough shit to deserve said hate, I mean seriously.
"Maybe you're fine with having someone else's blood on your hands..."
Fucking the biggest douche thing to say. He's aware Lee's killed in the past, he's aware that it's a touchy subject with Lee, but still he says that. After I tried to fucking help the kid. You got my fucking closest friend killed and despite me trying to help you, you continue to act like an asshole. Like what the fuck is your problem, if I got half the group killed I'd at least try to act like a decent human being.
While there are obvious implications that the writers may have chosen certain scenarios to let Ben continually be annoying to the group, however I would never go as far to say the game wanted you to hate him.
Also, sorry if I do seem snappy that isn't what I'm trying to do at all. But there were some good moments from Ben, I especially liked the ones where despite being left in the street- Clementine still loved Ben because it displays a strong will of forgiveness that all the characters and even some of us could learn from.
To be honest, whether you like or hate Ben- I don't care, I simply wanted to hear reasons and try to counter them the best I can. This isn't a clashing opinion topics this is 'sharing' topic.
While there are obvious implications that the writers may have chosen certain scenarios to let Ben continually be annoying to the group, however I would never go as far to say the game wanted you to hate him.
Honestly I think it was intentional. They made Ben the biggest shithead ever to make the chose of dropping him or not harder (just like they did with Larry). I may be biased but I honestly can't think of one scene with Ben that had shown him in a positive light outside of episode five... Only positive emotion I, personally, could attach to Ben would be, maybe, sympathy?
Also, sorry if I do seem snappy that isn't what I'm trying to do at all. But there were some good moments from Ben, I especially liked the ones where despite being left in the street- Clementine still loved Ben because it displays a strong will of forgiveness that all the characters and even some of us could learn from.
I wasn't talking about you, I was just speaking generally.
What moment with Ben specifically do you like anyways? That moment just shows Clem is a saint, nothing to do with Ben. Seems like most of Ben's scenes are either him snapping at Lee, fucking up / getting everyone killed, whining, or confessing about how he fucked up. I did like the scene where he told off Kenny, it was heartwarming. Everything else with Ben was infuriating.
Mind you I did forgive Ben, doesn't mean I like him. Despite my best efforts to support him, he's given me literally no reason to like him.
To be honest, whether you like or hate Ben- I don't care, I simply wanted to hear reasons and try to counter them the best I can. This isn't a clashing opinion topics this is 'sharing' topic.
This is most definitely not a sharing thread haha. If you're branching out and trying to "counter" someone else's opinion, then this is definitely a "clash of opinions" thread.
I just finished a play through where I saved Ben rather than dropping him like I did the first time. I'm not saying he's redeemed in my eyes but I do see what some people are talking about about how it changes how episode 5 plays quite a bit. I still wasn't that big of a fan of him and he didn't actually do anything to redeem himself before he died, but he DID serve the purpose of redeeming Kenny a bit (and I loved Kenny but there were times when I wanted to smack him for being so stubborn).
After Kenny says "I'm glad it was you and not me making that call..." and then 10 minutes later he's trying to save Ben and going out in a blaze of glory... man. Much harder to watch.
While there are obvious implications that the writers may have chosen certain scenarios to let Ben continually be annoying to the group, however I would never go as far to say the game wanted you to hate him.
Maybe it's just me, but i think they purposely made characters like Ben and Larry to go directly against you, and then see if you're willing to put all that behind you to save their life. Evidently many people don't, judging by the even split among both those decisions.
I would most likely be similar to Ben if i were in that setting. I probably wouldn't do such insane things as dealing with bandits, but i might screw up something major. I feel for Ben because of that, and if i were in his shoes it would suck being hated by so many people.
Maybe it's just me, but i think they purposely made characters like Ben and Larry to go directly against you, and then see if you're willing to put all that behind you to save their life. Evidently many people don't, judging by the even split among both those decisions
I think you're right with that, the game was like a test about how far you'd go if certain things were on the line, and about your morality.
Then in the end, the stranger was like a mirror, all your actions and decisions were listed, or most of them - think of it as a self-reflection.
That said, I think Ben and Larry, and the decisions you had to made concerning them were no coincidences, probably it was all made that way with exactly that intention, from the very beginning. As you said, I think they really do serve a bigger purpose than it perhaps seems at first.
Clementine technically got Kenny, Lee, Chuck, Ben, and Brie killed. However I honestly don't count any of these.
Ben apparently got Duck and Katjaa (Which I don't count) Brie (I count that)
Molly (Detriment so it's un-counted for plus we never see her die) Kenny (Don't count)
I can't really think of anyone else, but I know there's more for Ben.
Agree. But Brie? No, You can leave Clementine in house and go to Crawford without her.
I think that Ben had the most realistic personality. Yes, he did screw up, but he did mean well. If you really think about it, how many of you would be able to keep a straight head after watching people around you get killed in the most brutal ways? I'd like to say I would be a total bada*&@ and kill every walker I see without hesitation, but in real life, I would probably be a wreck and let everyone else make all the choices.
I think that Ben had the most realistic personality. Yes, he did screw up, but he did mean well. If you really think about it, how many of you would be able to keep a straight head after watching people around you get killed in the most brutal ways? I'd like to say I would be a total bada*&@ and kill every walker I see without hesitation, but in real life, I would probably be a wreck and let everyone else make all the choices.
If I were in Ben shoes I'd also be quite useless, I'd be scared and wouldn't know what to do. But you know what I wouldn't do? I wouldn't be as much as a dick as Ben was. After everything I did I would NEVER act so horrible. I know he was stressed out and aggravated but if you can't be useful you'd think he'd at least try to be nice. I'd also try harder then he did (eg when he was tasked to look after Clementine). Similarly I would never make a deal with the bandits or at least I'd tell Lee about it if I did.
He was quite a realistic character. Being a shy teenager surrounded by a group of people you don't know who dislike you and see you as just another mouth to feed while your only surviving companion is dying (David/Travis)
If he had some support who knows what might've happened, instead the group never truly accepted him.
However I do find certain points in Ep 4 stupid (such as the scene where Ben takes the axe between the doors) It's like TellTale wanted us to hate him for the choice that comes afterwards
What I think of Ben? Meh. He was alright, I got frustrated at him at times but I wasn't angry at him for getting Carley/Doug, Duck, Katjaa, Chuck, Brie, Kenny will to live, Kenny, Himself killed... Ok maybe I was but the one thing is that in episode 4 he left Clem to die. Sure Clem isn't Ben's responsibility but he was there he could have helped her or protected but he didn't he ran away. I also hated his attitude in episode 4 yet I pulled him up, I sort of felt sorry for him, he just wanted to die because he thought the rest of the group hated him and he wanted to sacrifice himself so the rest of the group could escape. I also pulled him up because of Clem since she counted him as her friend and stuck up for him when voting, wait a second Ben needs a 9 year old girl to stick up for him?! I guess I saw a little bit of myself in Ben's character since if I was in his situation I would mess a lot of things up and I've said this before! So yeah that's what I think of Ben.
If I were in Ben shoes I'd also be quite useless, I'd be scared and wouldn't know what to do. But you know what I wouldn't do? I wouldn't be as much as a dick as Ben was.
I think his guilt plus Kenny wanting him dead kinda justified his attitude...
Well, Kenny kind of wanted Ben dead for a reason. I'd say that Kenny wishing Ben dead was justified, considering that Ben got Kenny's wife and son killed.
I think his guilt plus Kenny wanting him dead kinda justified his attitude...
Oh come on, Ben was a complete dick before Kenny wanted him dead. Also, maybe it's just me, but the guilt would serve to just make me want to act nicer. I wouldn't get half the fucking group killed and then be a complete dick about it afterwords. I mean seriously.
I don't feel he was a dick in episodes 2 and 3... Only in the fourth, but that's because developers added some scenes to make Ben look bad because not enough people were dropping him in pretest...
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But also she was a child, but I freakin' wished Ben could have been kept the same as Telltale originally was planning to do with him I mean I think Ben's cool but there were some moments even I wanted to just leave him but I couldn't because of my conscious (God I hate that thing).
Clementine technically got Kenny, Lee, Chuck, Ben, and Brie killed. However I honestly don't count any of these.
Ben apparently got Duck and Katjaa (Which I don't count) Brie (I count that)
Molly (Detriment so it's un-counted for plus we never see her die) Kenny (Don't count)
I can't really think of anyone else, but I know there's more for Ben.
And in Crawford, Brie doesn't die because you took the time to let Clem vote, she dies because Ben lets dozens of walkers into the school through his incompetence. If Brie lived if you left Clem at the house, it'd be a different story, but I left Clem and she still got her guts ripped out.
Clem has, at most, Lee, Kenny, and Ben (Determinant). That's 3. I dropped Ben in my game, so for me it's actually 2. Ben has Duck, Carley/Doug, Katjaa, Chuck, and Brie in every playthrough. That's 5.
Agreed....the body count for every non-directly caused death has no true answer, and it depends on who you decide needs to shoulder the burden.
"Maybe you're fine with having someone else's blood on your hands..."
Fucking the biggest douche thing to say. He's aware Lee's killed in the past, he's aware that it's a touchy subject with Lee, but still he says that. After I tried to fucking help the kid. You got my fucking closest friend killed and despite me trying to help you, you continue to act like an asshole. Like what the fuck is your problem, if I got half the group killed I'd at least try to act like a decent human being.
While there are obvious implications that the writers may have chosen certain scenarios to let Ben continually be annoying to the group, however I would never go as far to say the game wanted you to hate him.
Also, sorry if I do seem snappy that isn't what I'm trying to do at all. But there were some good moments from Ben, I especially liked the ones where despite being left in the street- Clementine still loved Ben because it displays a strong will of forgiveness that all the characters and even some of us could learn from.
To be honest, whether you like or hate Ben- I don't care, I simply wanted to hear reasons and try to counter them the best I can. This isn't a clashing opinion topics this is 'sharing' topic.
What moment with Ben specifically do you like anyways? That moment just shows Clem is a saint, nothing to do with Ben. Seems like most of Ben's scenes are either him snapping at Lee, fucking up / getting everyone killed, whining, or confessing about how he fucked up. I did like the scene where he told off Kenny, it was heartwarming. Everything else with Ben was infuriating.
Mind you I did forgive Ben, doesn't mean I like him. Despite my best efforts to support him, he's given me literally no reason to like him.
This is most definitely not a sharing thread haha. If you're branching out and trying to "counter" someone else's opinion, then this is definitely a "clash of opinions" thread.
After Kenny says "I'm glad it was you and not me making that call..." and then 10 minutes later he's trying to save Ben and going out in a blaze of glory... man. Much harder to watch.
Maybe it's just me, but i think they purposely made characters like Ben and Larry to go directly against you, and then see if you're willing to put all that behind you to save their life. Evidently many people don't, judging by the even split among both those decisions.
I would most likely be similar to Ben if i were in that setting. I probably wouldn't do such insane things as dealing with bandits, but i might screw up something major. I feel for Ben because of that, and if i were in his shoes it would suck being hated by so many people.
I think you're right with that, the game was like a test about how far you'd go if certain things were on the line, and about your morality.
Then in the end, the stranger was like a mirror, all your actions and decisions were listed, or most of them - think of it as a self-reflection.
That said, I think Ben and Larry, and the decisions you had to made concerning them were no coincidences, probably it was all made that way with exactly that intention, from the very beginning. As you said, I think they really do serve a bigger purpose than it perhaps seems at first.
Agree. But Brie? No, You can leave Clementine in house and go to Crawford without her.
That blood's on the stranger's hands. Not Clementine's.
He was quite a realistic character. Being a shy teenager surrounded by a group of people you don't know who dislike you and see you as just another mouth to feed while your only surviving companion is dying (David/Travis)
If he had some support who knows what might've happened, instead the group never truly accepted him.
However I do find certain points in Ep 4 stupid (such as the scene where Ben takes the axe between the doors) It's like TellTale wanted us to hate him for the choice that comes afterwards
I think his guilt plus Kenny wanting him dead kinda justified his attitude...