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Suggestion: More expressive faces, and such.

Corvin25Corvin25
edited March 2008 in Sam & Max
Hi. :)

First, I'd like to say that you guys at TTG are doing an awesome job with the games so far. Funny stories, memorable characters and situations, and decent gameplay.

But there's always been one thing that bothered me about the characters from Season 1 onward.

Forgive me for saying it, but they just don't seem very expressive physically. They can point and emote and all, but to me, Sam and Max just don't seem to have the... intensity that they should. The duo's bodies are perfectly shaped, but it almost seems like their faces have been injected with a load of botox. More like Poser models than game renders.

I've recently come across some old "lost" footage of the cancelled game from LucasArts, and although I can't really forgive them for cancelling such a highly anticipated adventure, they did seem to have a better grasp of character animation. If I may give a couple of examples of the footage from the cancelled games... (I'm sure you guys have these clips, but I'm just linking them for the fans to understand)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SY65fu7EsCw

... ouch.

Anyway, you can see that Max seems to have a lot more energy and life in this version. His grin seems to be an actual GRIN more than just a showing of teeth, he is actually capable of frowning, and he has a lot of rabbit-like bounce in all his movements.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JiPISwKoovE

The original trailer. Again, same thing. Sam seems especially different in this, as he has a bit more enthusiasm in his actions.

... Oh, and Sam can actually close his mouth. o_o;

*cough*

ANYWAY, that's just my ONE little beef with the games to date. But it's just a little thing that I think could add to the already great experience. :) Everything else has been superb. But I figured any improvement I could suggest would be of some help. Hope you guys take it to heart!

And now I'm gonna go wait for episode 4.

Comments

  • xChri5xxChri5x
    edited March 2008
    Those aren't videos of ingame footage footage...


    Have you seen the cinematic trailer for Season Two?
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=nqCUfuWCnmg
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2008
    Chris is right, that's not in-game footage. Those cutscenes and the trailer were rendered out of Maya, as was Telltale's cinematic trailer, so comparing them to the cinematic trailer would be more fair than comparing them to Telltale's in-game footage.

    Most in-game stuff is blocked out in the engine, but some cutscenes are fully hand-animated in Maya and then imported into the engine. In those scenes, the expressions and gestures tend to be a lot more refined. Scenes at the very beginning and very end of the episode are hand-animated, plus some throughout the game that reveal big plot points. (We try to save the best stuff for the most important moments.) You can usually tell a hand-animated scene by the music -- if there's custom music rather than the usual loop, you're probably watching a hand-animated scene.

    No in-game footage has been released for Freelance Police, so it's impossible to say how the in-game footage would have compared, but considering our own Kevin Bruner was working on the tech for Freelance Police and he went on to develop Telltale's engine, I think we can assume there would have been similarities.

    (I realize the next question will probably be "Why don't you just hand animate the entire game?" There are many reasons, but I'll leave it for someone else to explain because right now I need coffee.)
  • ThatNickGuyThatNickGuy
    edited March 2008
    I can kind of understand where Corvin is coming from. Just the other day, I was replaying the old Day of the Tentacle and amazed at the amount of animation that was put into the game. Admittedly, it was still a little clunky, but I think having it in 2-D at the height of when 2-D was just about to be replaced, it shows it was at the top of it's proverbial game.

    Honestly, if you play through each of the Sam & Max games so far, you can see that the technology is improving bit by bit. The developers, unlike so very many other game companies, are actively listening to their audience and trying to find out what they want more out of the game.

    Think about how LucasArts originally started. Maniac Mansion and the first Monkey Island were two big leaps in the technology, followed by the rest of the LucasArts games where the technology improved with every game.

    Telltale is still just starting out. Technically, if you counted all of Season 1 and all of Season 2 as just two games, then really, the games really are becoming better and better in a short time (two years). Throw in the Bone games released so far, and you can get the feeling that Telltale is only just warming up.

    I'm glad I'm here at the ground floor to watch this company strive to properly bring adventure games back. And I will most definitely continue to support them because of it.
  • wispwisp
    edited March 2008
    Emily wrote: »
    (I realize the next question will probably be "Why don't you just hand animate the entire game?" There are many reasons, but I'll leave it for someone else to explain because right now I need coffee.)
    That't right, I demand fully hand animated Sam & Max Episodes...and while you're at it, cut the time between them down to two weeks maximum. Thanks a lot..:D
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2008
    That't right, I demand fully hand animated Sam & Max Episodes...and while you're at it, cut the time between them down to two weeks maximum.

    And slash the price, and throw in a free pony for every customer? You bet, we'll get right on that. :D
  • RobDRobD
    edited March 2008
    Emily wrote: »
    And slash the price, and throw in a free pony for every customer? You bet, we'll get right on that. :D

    Ah, man. The shipping for the pony is going bankrupt me...

    Still, I'll have something to sit on whilst playing the games.:D
  • RMJ1984RMJ1984
    edited March 2008
    >Well i must give him right, i would be nice to see alittle more expression from sam and max, and also use max a bit more, i still feel that for the most part like 90% max is just there, maybe you could find some way to incorperate, some voilence and use max in that department :)
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2008
    Having more expressive character performances is something we're always working on. If you go back and play Culture Shock, and then jump right to Chariots of the Dogs or Night of the Raving dead, you will hopefully notice that we've steadily improved our characters' acting ability in the last year and a half! We don't do big gut-busting sequels with years in-between -- we do an episode a month -- and many of our feature enhancements work the same way, slowly iterating over time with the occasional burst forward, instead of stewing for years unseen.
  • ThatNickGuyThatNickGuy
    edited March 2008
    That's pretty much what I said, too, Jake. The game and the game engine isn't improving in leaps and bounds because you're not making a new game that you don't have years to tweak it like...well, any other game. But there are little incremental improvements, baby steps if you will, and I love that aspect, honestly.
  • robosatanrobosatan
    edited March 2008
    It'd be nice, but!... I'm happy enough getting a couple of hours of game every month with reasonable animation that has funny dialog and decent voice acting!

    Also, the nice thing about these games is that I can play them on my laptop when I have some time to spare between classes. While I have a more powerful desktop upgrading the engine too much would probably alienate a portion of the user base. Something smaller developers can't afford to do.

    Damn I'm bored, release the new episode already!
  • maxman12maxman12
    edited March 2008
    man the old trailers seem to have none of the sam and max love that the ttg's versions do have.
  • LeakLeak
    edited March 2008
    Emily wrote: »
    throw in a free pony for every customer?
    OMG! PONIES!!1!elf

    SCNR... :D

    np: Pole - Winkelstreben (Ghislain Poirier Remix) (Steingarten Remixes)
  • mishmish
    edited March 2008
    I really hope there's some sort of a noticable jump between season 2 and 3. something like...better models, or....details where there were none. Or maybe a blank slate, with the old cases left forgotten, cleaned out of their office. Season 2 seems to be building up to much more of a big ending, so maybe they could have an office with no referrences to season 1 or 2. just throwing it out there.

    although i am smitten by the mariachi frogs from the beautiful tijuana.
  • KedriKedri
    edited March 2008
    Jake wrote: »
    Having more expressive character performances is something we're always working on. If you go back and play Culture Shock, and then jump right to Chariots of the Dogs or Night of the Raving dead, you will hopefully notice that we've steadily improved our characters' acting ability in the last year and a half! We don't do big gut-busting sequels with years in-between -- we do an episode a month -- and many of our feature enhancements work the same way, slowly iterating over time with the occasional burst forward, instead of stewing for years unseen.

    Oh, yeah. Animation has definitely gotten way better as little by little, more is added.

    By the way, Max in Freelance Police doesn't feel as fluffy and lovable as the Max I've come to know.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2008
    Max in Freelance Police had scary ears.
  • RazRaz
    edited March 2008
    I prefer telltales 3d version of our beloved heroes, the lucasarts 3dstudio/maya rendered cutscenes make them look.. well, sam is a weasel of sorts, and max got flattened and is more of a spare tire than a lagomorph.

    telltale's got the right idea of what sam and max really look like, and they are PLENTY expressive considering the amount of time in between releases, A MONTH? FOR A GAME?! I've played games that took only twice as long to complete where development time was 6 times that of telltales' - not even counting the voice acting, the script writing, the testing for bugs (which I've found practically none of so far, way to go telltale!)...

    I've got nothing but praise for the way you guys have revived the genre, it is by far my favourite genre... now if only lucasarts were to get their heads out of their... oh, uhm. I mean, uh. ... hi?

    :)

    - R
  • KefkyKefky
    edited March 2008
    Hmmm, is that Bill Farmer playing Sam in the freelance police trailer? It sounds a lot like him... I thought they were going to use the cartoon voice actors for the game?
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2008
    Freelance Police had Bill Farmer and Nick Jameson.
  • billyboy12billyboy12
    edited March 2008
    On a side note, while it's good to see Sam and Max can now snap their fingers, episode 4 used it a tad too much, could we please tone it down a notch?
  • Guybrush ThreepwoodGuybrush Threepwood
    edited March 2008
    billyboy12 wrote: »
    On a side note, while it's good to see Sam and Max can now snap their fingers, episode 4 used it a tad too much, could we please tone it down a notch?

    Mmm, and it was used at some weird points which didn't really fit in.
  • wispwisp
    edited March 2008
    they snapped their fingers?
  • Guybrush ThreepwoodGuybrush Threepwood
    edited March 2008
    wisp wrote: »
    they snapped their fingers?

    Many times. Can't believe you didn't notice it. :p I think the sound effect for the snapping also needs to be lowered in volume a bit, if my memory serves me well (which I'm sure it doesn't).
  • Kitmit13Kitmit13
    edited March 2008
    I love how it is now 8D
  • V_BenV_Ben
    edited March 2008
    yeah, i've noticed the characters are much more articulated too, easy to tell after a while :P
  • NickTTGNickTTG Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2008
    ya... i miss all of the "thumbrights"
  • V_BenV_Ben
    edited March 2008
    NickTTG wrote: »
    ya... i miss all of the "thumbrights"

    oh yeah, they used to do that loads!
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