Kenny..really?
its not another "kenny is alive "thread coz i dont want him in S2 but after few times of playing I decited f kenny -im 100% behind lilly.
i agree kenny can be a great guy if you are 100% with him but..why should you do that?
berely a day after you met him there is the duck argument in the drugstore,kenny is expecting lee to have his back even if we dont know duck is bitten wich is unfair towards lee.
on the argument with lilly in e2 lilly says :everyone started hating me coz im the 1 handeling the food rations" while kenny just complaining about how shitty job she is doing..she was the 1 to step and lead.not him.
meat locker :
Larry situation was pretty much same as the bitten-duck argument :
1.they both had a risk for coming back as a walker
2.rest of the group was closed with them (walkers outsie of the drugstore/locked at the meat locker)
3-thier condition was unknown (dead larry/bitten duck)
so when it was kenny's son -he wasnt bitten
when it was lilly's dad-he is dead
he didnt do it to protect the group - for me it was like a revange for the man that wanted to kill his son - and he is (again) expecting lee to help him kill lilly's only thing she got left.
argument in ep3 he want to abandon the only shelter they got coz he thinks after 3 months of the apocolypse there are boats left..really?
I chose the "go f yourself option n ep4..didnt have any patience to his games when clem is in danger
what do you think about the man and what are your opinion about these cases I mentioned?
excuse my english btw :P
i agree kenny can be a great guy if you are 100% with him but..why should you do that?
berely a day after you met him there is the duck argument in the drugstore,kenny is expecting lee to have his back even if we dont know duck is bitten wich is unfair towards lee.
on the argument with lilly in e2 lilly says :everyone started hating me coz im the 1 handeling the food rations" while kenny just complaining about how shitty job she is doing..she was the 1 to step and lead.not him.
meat locker :
Larry situation was pretty much same as the bitten-duck argument :
1.they both had a risk for coming back as a walker
2.rest of the group was closed with them (walkers outsie of the drugstore/locked at the meat locker)
3-thier condition was unknown (dead larry/bitten duck)
so when it was kenny's son -he wasnt bitten
when it was lilly's dad-he is dead
he didnt do it to protect the group - for me it was like a revange for the man that wanted to kill his son - and he is (again) expecting lee to help him kill lilly's only thing she got left.
argument in ep3 he want to abandon the only shelter they got coz he thinks after 3 months of the apocolypse there are boats left..really?
I chose the "go f yourself option n ep4..didnt have any patience to his games when clem is in danger
what do you think about the man and what are your opinion about these cases I mentioned?
excuse my english btw :P
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Comments
I was entirely on his side in the game, except for the meat locker incident. I try to save Larry and he just outright leaves you for dead at least twice, not to mention he carries a grudge on you at the end of episode 2/beginning of episode 3. If you don't agree with him on every last thing, he eventually screws you over in one way or the other.
Everyone on this forum going "Team Kenny!" has probably ended up agreeing with him on every single last thing. Kenny is ONLY completely nice throughout the whole game if you bend your back over for him every time he needs an opinion or needs you on his side.
He's a good character, and had the most heroic death (be it the Christa or Ben death). I want to end his character being someone who had a perfect character arc, and being someone we were all fond of.
Not true. I was Kenny's best pal, but I was light years away from being his lap dog. When Kenny tried to urge everyone to steal from the Stranger's car, I was the only one who sided with Clementine, simply because I felt enough was enough. I also shot the woman in the street, despite Kenny insisting we should allow her to die horribly so we can make off with a little more food.
Kenny stuck by me to the end, even after I made these choices. The meat locker incident appears to be the officially designated turning point in your relationship with Kenny, for good or ill. I think the reason Kenny turns against you so violently if you try to save Larry is 1) he is a straight-up asshole sometimes, and 2) you left Kenny alone with an unpopular decision that alienated him from the rest of the group.
It's also important to remember that, even if Kenny was a complete tool from episode 2 onwards, he always gives that speech in the suicide couple's room about "sticking it out" and saving Clementine, which indicated his personality was changing for the better. If Kenny survives into season 2 - that's a big if - I'm inclined to believe his near-death trauma will have driven out the selfish man we knew from season 1.
I wouldn't say Kenny was "selfless" in episode 1. He saved his son, only to ditch Shawn. (This was probably meant to be a subtle hint as to how Kenny's personality would develop in later episodes). You could tell he was haunted by his actions, however, and after losing Duck and Katjaa, Kenny had to start caring for other people besides his family, otherwise he would have self-destructed.
(Fans keep pointing out how much of a dick Kenny can be, but no one seems to have a problem with Katjaa revealing her bitchy side when she scolds Lee for trying to save Shawn instead of Duck. Lady, I didn't exactly have time to flip a fucking coin!)
ture
Katjaa told Lee that he needed to prioritize the children above all else if it ever came down to it like it did with Shawn. Not very understanding, but not completely unreasonable.
Kenny admitted fucking up by not saving Shawn when he could have, was consoled by Lee, and then out of nowhere took a random shot at Lee for not looking out for Duck on Hershel's farm. Even after Lee stood up for him in the drug store and gave him one of four extremely scarce food items.
And then at the end of episode 4, saying that Lee looked out for HIMSELF more often than his friends? No. Just no. If Kenny had said Lee looked out for other people more often than him? Fine. Not true, but fine. Saying that Lee, one of the most selfless, self-sacrificing characters in the game put himself before others? Well, you can fuck right off there, buddy.
That was just Kenny being childish. (You DO mean the scene by the St. John swing, and not a "gunshot" shot, right?) It's obvious the guy had serious issues, and even Katjaa called him out on his petty attitude every night. If anything, season 1 shows how Kenny grows from a man-child to an actual man.
I disagree. He's a good man with a bad disposition.
Kenny is now my mustachioed brouche.
I saved Duck.
I killed Larry.
I stole the supplies.
I left Lilly.
I killed Duck for him.
I agreed with him in basically everything.
So meh.
I'll call that a victory.
It's true.
I'm a card carrying member of the Brostache Brigade, Ken's my guy, but, I will happily admit that he will at times go into douchemode and unashamedly so.
Brouche it is.
I wrote he can be a great guy if you side with him but his actions in the cases I mentiond were really wrong -once you get in a survival team that is feeding you,giving you and your kid shelter and taking care of you you gotta stop complaining about the way things are coz for my opinion he couldnt done any better then Lilly when it comes to leadership. its LEE's decisions - Kenny cant hate him over it for not having his back even if his opinions were wrong
Kenny is a good man? Seriously? A man is defined by his actions. Let's consider some of his choices of action and views. Kenny thought the whole group should take the food even after most of the group pointed out that the owners could come back. His attitude was finders keepers, you snooze you lose. I thought that was a bit harsh but not exactly evil but when Kenny told me to leave the woman to suffer so her screams would draw out walkers that confirmed how far his views were from mine. In that moment he wasn't making a quick decision like in the meat locker he had thought it out and planned a strategy. The only word to describe his mentality in that scene is wicked. That was definitely something that the Governor would have done or suggested.
When he told me not to try and help the girl because she was "dead already"I disregarded him and ended the girl’s misery then he blamed Lee at the motor inn for messing everything up even though I still managed to get lots of supplies. Not to mention the fact that he left me for dead when I was being swarmed by walkers. His behaviour wasn't much better than when Shane left Otis in the TV show, the only difference is I escaped but less imagine the game continued the story even if I died in the drugstore like the heay rain game, he would have been responsible for me dying and he would have lied to the group on his return the way Shane did. He did keep what he did in the meat locker from his wife after all.
All you have to do is look at how the other characters in the game see him. Molly thinks he's a dick, so does Christa who generally perceived him the way I do, insensitive, selfish until his redeeming moment. I mean he didn't even want to wait for Omid to rest. The only people that really had love for Kenny are his family and the player if they were "team Kenny".
Kenny was cool in episode 1 but from 2 onwards he was a pantomime villain in the sense that he behaved in ways purposed and designed to evoke negative reactions, hence the fight scene option on the train. Telltale built up towards that by making him goad and taunt the player until they said fuck it enough is enough. Kenny would be swearing at Lee, shaking his head and giving Lee dirty looks when he wasn't looking if Lee didn't help him kill Larry.
Personally I think the man that kidnapped Clementine had more decency and was in a bad disposition, who broke down and lost his sanity after events that Lee's people caused.
they were all good decisions, they were starving so they needed the food, the woman was dead so no need to risk the lives of the living and larry was a danger to the entire group, i talked kenny down in the train so it was you who wanted to fight him, and if you thought the stranger had more decency than Kenny... well, that's just, like, your opinion, man
That's where you lost me. Saying the Stranger's a better human being than Kenny is going waaaaay overboard. Both are men pushed to the brink, but the similarities end there. If Kenny's mental state was on the same level as the Stranger's, he would have immediately snapped after Duck's death and thrown Clementine off the train just to get under Lee's skin.
Ironically, your attitude towards Kenny isn't too different from Kenny's attitude towards Lee if he doesn't side with him in the meat locker.
If you sided with Kenny on every single thing you would have got the "duckapocalypse" easter on the train when duck turns and eats everyone. The one time where the game makes you disagree with Kenny is on the train because if you don't you get the game over screen. Kenny wants to go to Savannah with Duck, Lee wants Duck off the train as do the rest of the group because he is endangering them. Telltale was showing there that Kenny isn't right about everything and if we back him all the way it will be at the cost of the group. As for letting the girl suffer that was just unnecessary. You can still get lots of supplies even if you shoot her you just have to work harder at it. Kenny takes the easy options at the expense of others. Letting the girl suffer made it easier to loot supplies, killing Larry made it easier to deal with being locked in the meat locker. In the end neither proved necessary.
I agreed with Kenny on somethings myself. I didn't go against him on everything but I showed him I had my own mind and I wasn't gonna be his or anybody's bitch. I didn't like when the game made me do all of his dirty work, there was no way I was going to when I had an option to do differently. By his dirty work I mean when he sends you out like his lackey to look for a tool to break into the St Johns secret room whilst he has the group meal, when he gets you to work out how to fix the train whilst he sits at the controls, which are just a few examples that come to mind. I know that those segments have to be done by Lee/the player but he could have at least accompanied Lee and made it look like he was helping in some way. I felt like he was the guy calling all the shots once Lilly was out of the picture. Even some of the dialogue options like when Clem asks where we would be going and Lee can respond saying whatever Kenny thinks is best.
I don’t know, I mean being his best friend wasn’t that important to me and there is no way I would have done the things he wanted without questioning him in real life. He had his views I had mine but he still ended up looking for Clem in one of my playthroughs after I made him feel guilty about being a uncaring. In my first play through I didn’t think I should have had to persuade him to help when Omid and Christa who knew me much less were willing to help me so I told him to fuck himself and cut him off for the rest of the game.
Tried to set some standards, but pragmatism does have its place.
you just don't like kenny, agreeing with him isn't being his bitch or his lackey, it sounds like if kenny told you to protect Clementine you would not do it just to prove you aren't his bitch
He can be a real ass at times, no question. I, personally, wouldn't have been his friend if he had been like he was in Episode 4 when we first met him. It was everything he and Lee had been through at that point that kept them friends in my game. As for people on Team Kenny "bending over" for him in every decision, that's not true. I genuinely agreed with him on almost everything, but not everything. I left the food and shot the girl, the latter simply because Kenny wanted me to leave her. So in spite of that, he still saves me from the door falling on me, and gives me the bro speech at the end of Episode 4. It was said earlier in this thread, but Kenny starts to come around in Episode 5. He becomes much less selfish and assholish near the end, and if he does survive into Season 2, I can see him becoming the guy he was in Episode 1, someone that his family would be proud of again.
No you just misunderstand me.
My point was Kenny behaved the way he did without having any mental health issues. That was his personality. His natural state was selfish but some of the choices he made involving people he knew were damn right wicked.
When the stranger sought revenge is was against people he did not know, did not care about, people who he blamed for the loss of his loved ones in his crazed state. What did the stranger do exactly? He lured Clem to him. He planned to harm Lee's people out of revenge but didn't get to because they ended up dying by other causes. We don't even have any proof that he even killed the living during the time between him leaving Macon and him reaching Savannah. Kenny on the other hand did/attempted countless atrocities to members of the group who he had lived with for 3 months. The way the Larry incident occurred was something that he felt he needed to keep from his wife, that says something. Kenny leaving Lee to die twice out of spite as opposed to fear says something about the man's character. Kenny telling Lee to leave the woman to suffer so they can loot more food says multitudes. Not to mention when he suggested leaving Lilly during the bandit raid, in fact he attempted it but she jumped in after he peeled out.
I'm saying some of Kenny's actions were damn right evil at the very least inhumane and that was before he lost his wife and son, he was just drunk and defeatist after that.
The kidnapper in his twisted view believed he was the good guy saving Clem from a group that did wicked things because of what Clem was telling him. He was mostly after Kenny because what Clem told him and the way she said it. He knew Kenny was the most vocal and persuasive regarding the theft of his belongings.
So in a nut shell i'm comparing the villains motivations and what we learn of his personality to what we experience of Kenny's behaviour and the incite we get of his personality and by that I say Kenny was less decent. The kidnapper had bad intentions but he was only really a problem from ep4-ep5. Kenny was a thorn in my side from ep2 onwards and many will agree that he was very much key in the break -down of the group with the meat locker incident. Not because Larry died but because of the way the situation was handled.
It is if what he tells you to do go against your morals and your gut feeling and you go with the flow anyway and it definitely is when you are carrying out instructions like a hench man or an employee. Am I really the only person noticing Kenny sending Lee into dangerous situations and hanging back in safe places? When Kenny storms out of the meat locker he wants to get the riffle leaning against the door near Danny but if you notice he stops part way so Lee will get the riffle for him even though Lee was against the idea, we are forced to attempt it any way. Then when he is in the barn stall he tells Lee to check to see where Danny is. Why doesn't he do it? He says he will back Lee up even if he is pissed at him about the meat locker incident but he only helps Lee is Lee didn't try and save Larry. That snake like behaviour. Then in ep 4 he tells Lee to sneak up on the person he suspects might be the guy on the radio, whilst he waits in the alley way. He says he will back Lee up but if you fail the fight sequence, Molly raises Hilda to kill you and the only thing that saves you is Clementine screaming no. Where was Kenny? Can you imagine how those scenarios would have played out if Carly was with Lee. Danny would have been shot on the spot, and Carly would have warned Molly off.
What I find funny is when I have seen youtube playthroughs were Kenny has beaten the snot out of Lee, left him with a black eye and the player is still kissing Kenny’s arse.
So yes, I do dislike Kenny but I think my reasons are valid, however I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face, I wouldn't disagree with him just because I didn't like the way he behaved towards me earlier.
this whole lackey/henchman argument is weak, he just knows Lee is capable of doing the things he suggest which is why he is a good leader and my Lee wanted to do them anyway, you just don't know what a bro is and your dislike for Kenny is clouding your judgement
adding some points on edit : I chose the "go f yourself" option in ep 4 because he puts clem in damger to many times for me to let him come & he was an a$$hole to me so.. :P
he left lee for dead in ep3 without thinking about what happends if the walkers would have kill lee - no guardian for clem,Lilly wasnt in shape to guard any1 and kenny got his family.
when the "speach" comes in ep4 I thought "does he really going to play with me those games of "u werent/were there so im not coming?" really? when clementine's life are on the line?
I keep hearing that word around the forum and it almost always refers to Kenny.
Only difference is Kenny didn't outright try and kill Lee or Lilly for leadership. (He might not help Lee in a couple of situations though but never points a gun on him like Shane)
we didnt know if duck is bitten or if larry is dead and they both had a chance of coming back as far as we knew at that moment.
Kenny protected his child even tho he didnt know himself if he was bitten or not,but when it comes to larry kenny "decited" he was dead,maybe because larry was the 1 wanted to kill duck - he reacts different to (almost) same case,only different was the people who were in danger
Looks like your bromance with Kenny is doing the same thing to your judgement. So you're saying a good leader is someone who stands back and lets his teammates do all the dirty work? Seems like the definition of a master-lackey relationship to me. And Kenny isn't omniscient, there were plenty of times where he had no idea whether Lee would have survived without his help. Molly would have killed Lee if it weren't for Clem, no thanks to Kenny. You'd have to be blind to ignore that Kenny is fundamentally a good man, but you'd have to be just as blind to ignore that he's also a massive douchebag.
To be honest, by the end of episode 4 I just didn't give a crap about Kenny anymore. When he refused to help Lee find Clem, I actually felt like a great burden had been lifted from my shoulders.:p
Yeah, Kenny prefers using the passive approach to getting people killed.:D
Lee's getting swarmed by walkers? Oh, hang on my shoes are untied.
To Lee at least. To anyone else who isn't his family, he's a douche.