I also thought more about the scenario of Andy getting beat up to protect Clem. Being a child who people are supposed to protect, maybe they are chased somewhere by, say, Nate, and he hides her and gets beat up refusing to reveal her location. We are talking about people who probably want to do something horrible to her. Clementine is repeatedly given the option to reveal herself while listening to this brutality, leading up to them eventually saying they'll just kill him. But then, odds are they'll do that anyway if she comes out, and then all his suffering would have been for nothing. What to do?
I honestly would like to see Nate and Clementine in a group together.
Is it weird that I want two psychopaths to ally with Clementine? With Nate, I would want the precondition of someone else being in the group with him. All I know is that there would never be a dull moment with him. He never seemed to be interested in children in that way.
Was totally thinking that.
I also thought more about the scenario of Andy getting beat up to protect Clem. Being a child who people are su… morepposed to protect, maybe they are chased somewhere by, say, Nate, and he hides her and gets beat up refusing to reveal her location. We are talking about people who probably want to do something horrible to her. Clementine is repeatedly given the option to reveal herself while listening to this brutality, leading up to them eventually saying they'll just kill him. But then, odds are they'll do that anyway if she comes out, and then all his suffering would have been for nothing. What to do?
I don't see Clem in a group in S2. At least not for a while. Maybe in Episode 2 or 3 she'll find refuge in a group, but i just don't see it in Episode 1. Maybe Clem will save Winston from that walker and then Winston sort of looks after Clem for a while?
I honestly would like to see Nate and Clementine in a group together.
Is it weird that I want two psychopaths to ally with Clementine? With… more Nate, I would want the precondition of someone else being in the group with him. All I know is that there would never be a dull moment with him. He never seemed to be interested in children in that way.
I don't see Clem in a group in S2. At least not for a while. Maybe in Episode 2 or 3 she'll find refuge in a group, but i just don't see it in… more Episode 1. Maybe Clem will save Winston from that walker and then Winston sort of looks after Clem for a while?
Also, this is from a recent tweet from telltale: Who will you trust and how will you survive? #IamClementine
There seems to be a lot of focus on trust. I'm really hoping whoever you team up with impacts the story in some way. At times, you might not have a choice wether or not to trust someone, you have to in order to survive.
Hypothetical trolltage games choice:
Pick your poison:
Save Nate or Andrew St. John.
Also, this is from a recent tweet from telltale:… more Who will you trust and how will you survive? #IamClementine
There seems to be a lot of focus on trust. I'm really hoping whoever you team up with impacts the story in some way. At times, you might not have a choice wether or not to trust someone, you have to in order to survive.
Also, I sent you a PM.
I reported his post. He was trolling. I created a topic protesting the spoilers in topic titles outside of the spoiler section, so some peop… morele have been messing with me via PMs and various topics. Let's just ignore them and continue our discussion.@_@
Except that I did nothing wrong. This topic title is not a spoiler, and there is a warning in the title that there will be spoilers within. I've broken no rules.
I think the idea of "redemption" among particular characters has been thrown around too much on this forum. Broken men like Kenny might be salvageable, depending on what you did with Lee in the previous season, but it's pretty safe to say Andy St. John was beyond all help. He was clearly the driving force behind the St. Johns's decision to consume human meat, and there was absolutely no point in the episode when he displayed any kind of reticence about what he was doing. He should be left far behind in season one IMO, mainly because he'd probably be twice as deranged as before were he to come back, and I don't want to regret leaving him alive.
Kenny doesn't really need "redemption", though. Yeah, he's made some choices that ticked players off, but nothing really evil-or meant to be evil. I actually don't think Andy was the driving force behind them eating meat. If anything, most people believe it's the mother or Danny who were responsible.
Making you regret leaving him alive is one of the reasons for this, as I stated elsewhere. Maybe your intentions were good or maybe they were cruel, but you still left a dangerous man alive and gave him every reason to want revenge. You see him again, and you suddenly wonder if that choice you made all that time ago might have put Clementine in serious danger, with Lee not there to protect her.
I think the idea of "redemption" among particular characters has been thrown around too much on this forum. Broken men like Kenny might be sal… morevageable, depending on what you did with Lee in the previous season, but it's pretty safe to say Andy St. John was beyond all help. He was clearly the driving force behind the St. Johns's decision to consume human meat, and there was absolutely no point in the episode when he displayed any kind of reticence about what he was doing. He should be left far behind in season one IMO, mainly because he'd probably be twice as deranged as before were he to come back, and I don't want to regret leaving him alive.
Also, I've been thinking about it, and maybe he does regret what he's become. Think of the fight between him and Lee. Even if you beat him violently, he still gets up and threatens you. It's only after you reply and start to walk away that he begins to get desperate and is essentially pleading with Lee to come back and finish him. This reaction makes sense if you choose to reply by telling him his mother and Danny aren't coming or are dead, but why react like that if you say nothing or just repeat that the confrontation is over? He tries to stay angry and sound mad, but you can hear it in his voice-he wants to die. Even if you haven't beaten him hardly at all and have given him no indication his family is dead. Even though, when at that point, he has no idea the zombies are coming and the fence is going to fail.
I think the idea of "redemption" among particular characters has been thrown around too much on this forum. Broken men like Kenny might be sal… morevageable, depending on what you did with Lee in the previous season, but it's pretty safe to say Andy St. John was beyond all help. He was clearly the driving force behind the St. Johns's decision to consume human meat, and there was absolutely no point in the episode when he displayed any kind of reticence about what he was doing. He should be left far behind in season one IMO, mainly because he'd probably be twice as deranged as before were he to come back, and I don't want to regret leaving him alive.
I think the idea of "redemption" among particular characters has been thrown around too much on this forum. Broken men like Kenny might be sal… morevageable, depending on what you did with Lee in the previous season, but it's pretty safe to say Andy St. John was beyond all help. He was clearly the driving force behind the St. Johns's decision to consume human meat, and there was absolutely no point in the episode when he displayed any kind of reticence about what he was doing. He should be left far behind in season one IMO, mainly because he'd probably be twice as deranged as before were he to come back, and I don't want to regret leaving him alive.
Also, I've been thinking about it, and maybe he does regret what he's become. Think of the fight between him and Lee. Even if you beat him v… moreiolently, he still gets up and threatens you. It's only after you reply and start to walk away that he begins to get desperate and is essentially pleading with Lee to come back and finish him. This reaction makes sense if you choose to reply by telling him his mother and Danny aren't coming or are dead, but why react like that if you say nothing or just repeat that the confrontation is over? He tries to stay angry and sound mad, but you can hear it in his voice-he wants to die. Even if you haven't beaten him hardly at all and have given him no indication his family is dead. Even though, when at that point, he has no idea the zombies are coming and the fence is going to fail.
Duck, no matter how you try to spin it, the concept you've described is just too much of a stretch. There wasn't a single moment in episode 2 when Andy looked even remotely repentant about his actions, and assigning a "redemptive" story arc to the character would be silly. I often get sick of Robert Kirkman's pessimistic view of humanity myself, but in Andy's case, it doesn't take a genius to see the man is/was beyond all help.
Also, I've been thinking about it, and maybe he does regret what he's become. Think of the fight between him and Lee. Even if you beat him violently, he still gets up and threatens you. It's only after you reply and start to walk away that he begins to get desperate and is essentially pleading with Lee to come back and finish him. This reaction makes sense if you choose to reply by telling him his mother and Danny aren't coming or are dead, but why react like that if you say nothing or just repeat that the confrontation is over? He tries to stay angry and sound mad, but you can hear it in his voice-he wants to die. Even if you haven't beaten him hardly at all and have given him no indication his family is dead. Even though, when at that point, he has no idea the zombies are coming and the fence is going to fail.
He wants to die and is essentially begging for it. That's regret.
Duck, no matter how you try to spin it, the concept you've described is just too much of a stretch. There wasn't a single moment in episode 2 … morewhen Andy looked even remotely repentant about his actions, and assigning a "redemptive" story arc to the character would be silly. I often get sick of Robert Kirkman's pessimistic view of humanity myself, but in Andy's case, it doesn't take a genius to see the man is/was beyond all help.
I think that's more of a case of reading something into Andy's last words that isn't really there. He doesn't "want to die" so much as do whatever he can to kill Lee. It's as straightforward as that. There's no ulterior motive, no other subtext, than murderous male machismo.
Did you miss this:
Also, I've been thinking about it, and maybe he does regret what he's become. Think of the fight between him and Lee. Ev… moreen if you beat him violently, he still gets up and threatens you. It's only after you reply and start to walk away that he begins to get desperate and is essentially pleading with Lee to come back and finish him. This reaction makes sense if you choose to reply by telling him his mother and Danny aren't coming or are dead, but why react like that if you say nothing or just repeat that the confrontation is over? He tries to stay angry and sound mad, but you can hear it in his voice-he wants to die. Even if you haven't beaten him hardly at all and have given him no indication his family is dead. Even though, when at that point, he has no idea the zombies are coming and the fence is going to fail.
He wants to die and is essentially begging for it. That's regret.
Unless he was crazy (wait, he was.... you know what I mean) he would have to realize that he couldn't kill Lee in his shape. And if he was doing everything to kill Lee, wouldn't he try and get the rifle a few feet away from him?
I think that's more of a case of reading something into Andy's last words that isn't really there. He doesn't "want to die" so much as do what… moreever he can to kill Lee. It's as straightforward as that. There's no ulterior motive, no other subtext, than murderous male machismo.
Lee just knocked the stuffing out of him. After a beatdown like that, I probably wouldn't be able to think of something as obvious as picking up the rifle either.
Unless he was crazy (wait, he was.... you know what I mean) he would have to realize that he couldn't kill Lee in his shape. And if he was doing everything to kill Lee, wouldn't he try and get the rifle a few feet away from him?
I don't see how you can say that. The look on his face is heartbreaking, and he falls to his knees, and practically in tears, demands that Lee come back and finish this. It's obvious he's lost the fight and is outnumbered. Lee coming back means his death, which is pretty clearly what he is asking for. Breaking down and pleading is hardly "macho", and I don't see anyone buying that as the reason behind his words and actions then.
I think that's more of a case of reading something into Andy's last words that isn't really there. He doesn't "want to die" so much as do what… moreever he can to kill Lee. It's as straightforward as that. There's no ulterior motive, no other subtext, than murderous male machismo.
He's hysterical because his entire family is dead (or soon will be), his beloved home is being overrun, and now the people who were supposed to be the slabs of meat on his dinner table are walking away. The man is not pleading. It's the last, desperate taunt of a demon who's had his pitchfork broken, and is now trying to drag someone else with him down to hell.
Look, it's clear you've put a lot of time and thought into this idea, and you're obviously doing all you can to keep this thread going, but I simply think Andy as a character doesn't have enough meat and gristle to him for the kind of scenario you're imagining. Of course, if Telltale decided to do something along the lines of what you've suggested, who knows. I'd be happy to eat crow if it turned out great.
On the other hand, if you're really crazy about getting this concept out into the world, by all means write a piece of fan fiction. I'd love to read it.
I don't see how you can say that. The look on his face is heartbreaking, and he falls to his knees, and practically in tears, demands that L… moreee come back and finish this. It's obvious he's lost the fight and is outnumbered. Lee coming back means his death, which is pretty clearly what he is asking for. Breaking down and pleading is hardly "macho", and I don't see anyone buying that as the reason behind his words and actions then.
See, you're hurting yourself here. As I have now pointed out twice, Andy will break down in this way even if you don't tell him or even imply something has happened to his family, and it occurs BEFORE the generator fails and the zombies start to overrun the farm. I don't see how you could have missed this, since I even pasted it in reply to your above post.
Trying to dismiss his behavior as him just being macho feels almost insulting.
Likewise, you saying what you say about his character is kind of insulting. You don't seem to have really understood the characters. I bet you'd say the same about Danny, and you'd be very wrong. Maybe read some of the many character analysis out there?
He's hysterical because his entire family is dead (or soon will be), his beloved home is being overrun, and now the people who were supposed t… moreo be the slabs of meat on his dinner table are walking away. The man is not pleading. It's the last, desperate taunt of a demon who's had his pitchfork broken, and is now trying to drag someone else with him down to hell.
Look, it's clear you've put a lot of time and thought into this idea, and you're obviously doing all you can to keep this thread going, but I simply think Andy as a character doesn't have enough meat and gristle to him for the kind of scenario you're imagining. Of course, if Telltale decided to do something along the lines of what you've suggested, who knows. I'd be happy to eat crow if it turned out great.
On the other hand, if you're really crazy about getting this concept out into the world, by all means write a piece of fan fiction. I'd love to read it.
He's hysterical because his entire family is dead (or soon will be), his beloved home is being overrun, and now the people who were supposed t… moreo be the slabs of meat on his dinner table are walking away. The man is not pleading. It's the last, desperate taunt of a demon who's had his pitchfork broken, and is now trying to drag someone else with him down to hell.
Look, it's clear you've put a lot of time and thought into this idea, and you're obviously doing all you can to keep this thread going, but I simply think Andy as a character doesn't have enough meat and gristle to him for the kind of scenario you're imagining. Of course, if Telltale decided to do something along the lines of what you've suggested, who knows. I'd be happy to eat crow if it turned out great.
On the other hand, if you're really crazy about getting this concept out into the world, by all means write a piece of fan fiction. I'd love to read it.
What's your problem? If you can't be civil, then maybe you should go away. You said something, I replied, then you ignored what I said and said the same thing over again. That's rude and doesn't make for good discussion.
Really? Nate murdered two elderly people, nearly let Russel die multiple times, and had a sleazy attitude towards females.
Even if Andy ha… moredn't changed, I think I'd still be more inclined to choose him.
I wish we could show this idea to TellTale.
Was totally thinking that.
I also thought more about the scenario of Andy getting beat up to protect Clem. Being a child who people are su… morepposed to protect, maybe they are chased somewhere by, say, Nate, and he hides her and gets beat up refusing to reveal her location. We are talking about people who probably want to do something horrible to her. Clementine is repeatedly given the option to reveal herself while listening to this brutality, leading up to them eventually saying they'll just kill him. But then, odds are they'll do that anyway if she comes out, and then all his suffering would have been for nothing. What to do?
In an apocalypse you don't get to be sentimental.
Nate chooses his own friends and foes and he seems like he care about his allies (most of the time)
On the other hand, Nate had a teammate as well, who got shot by Eddie. No wonder he has gone a bit wayward.
What is want to say is that Nate is not a good person. He is a survivalist and I would be happy to see Clementine on his good side. It seems a bit like Nate wanted Russel to be his sidekick or something anyway.
Really? Nate murdered two elderly people, nearly let Russel die multiple times, and had a sleazy attitude towards females.
Even if Andy ha… moredn't changed, I think I'd still be more inclined to choose him.
I wish we could show this idea to TellTale.
Comments
Was totally thinking that.
I also thought more about the scenario of Andy getting beat up to protect Clem. Being a child who people are supposed to protect, maybe they are chased somewhere by, say, Nate, and he hides her and gets beat up refusing to reveal her location. We are talking about people who probably want to do something horrible to her. Clementine is repeatedly given the option to reveal herself while listening to this brutality, leading up to them eventually saying they'll just kill him. But then, odds are they'll do that anyway if she comes out, and then all his suffering would have been for nothing. What to do?
I honestly would like to see Nate and Clementine in a group together.
Is it weird that I want two psychopaths to ally with Clementine? With Nate, I would want the precondition of someone else being in the group with him. All I know is that there would never be a dull moment with him. He never seemed to be interested in children in that way.
I don't see Clem in a group in S2. At least not for a while. Maybe in Episode 2 or 3 she'll find refuge in a group, but i just don't see it in Episode 1. Maybe Clem will save Winston from that walker and then Winston sort of looks after Clem for a while?
Nate just completely creeped me out. As evidenced by me wanting Andy- who has his faults-to protect Clem from him.
Not saying it has to be in the very first episode.
Hypothetical trolltage games choice:
Pick your poison:
Save Nate or Andrew St. John.
Also, this is from a recent tweet from telltale: Who will you trust and how will you survive? #IamClementine
There seems to be a lot of focus on trust. I'm really hoping whoever you team up with impacts the story in some way. At times, you might not have a choice wether or not to trust someone, you have to in order to survive.
Also, I sent you a PM.
Yea. I know.
Andrew all the way. Even with all Andy did, I find Nate's behavior so much more disturbing.
If they came out of nowhere, I'd choose Nate. If I felt that Andrew had changed, I'd choose him.
Really? Nate murdered two elderly people, nearly let Russel die multiple times, and had a sleazy attitude towards females.
Even if Andy hadn't changed, I think I'd still be more inclined to choose him.
I wish we could show this idea to TellTale.
[removed]
Except that I did nothing wrong. This topic title is not a spoiler, and there is a warning in the title that there will be spoilers within. I've broken no rules.
If nothing else, might be making this idea into a fanfic.
I think the idea of "redemption" among particular characters has been thrown around too much on this forum. Broken men like Kenny might be salvageable, depending on what you did with Lee in the previous season, but it's pretty safe to say Andy St. John was beyond all help. He was clearly the driving force behind the St. Johns's decision to consume human meat, and there was absolutely no point in the episode when he displayed any kind of reticence about what he was doing. He should be left far behind in season one IMO, mainly because he'd probably be twice as deranged as before were he to come back, and I don't want to regret leaving him alive.
Kenny doesn't really need "redemption", though. Yeah, he's made some choices that ticked players off, but nothing really evil-or meant to be evil. I actually don't think Andy was the driving force behind them eating meat. If anything, most people believe it's the mother or Danny who were responsible.
Making you regret leaving him alive is one of the reasons for this, as I stated elsewhere. Maybe your intentions were good or maybe they were cruel, but you still left a dangerous man alive and gave him every reason to want revenge. You see him again, and you suddenly wonder if that choice you made all that time ago might have put Clementine in serious danger, with Lee not there to protect her.
nice idea but i kicked andy st John into an electric fence... I don't think hes coming back from that
I did say this is a story arc that would only happen if you didn't kill him.
Also, probably not relevant, but the flashback scene before we get to see Season 2 Clem is of her at the dairy farm, looking happy.
Also, I've been thinking about it, and maybe he does regret what he's become. Think of the fight between him and Lee. Even if you beat him violently, he still gets up and threatens you. It's only after you reply and start to walk away that he begins to get desperate and is essentially pleading with Lee to come back and finish him. This reaction makes sense if you choose to reply by telling him his mother and Danny aren't coming or are dead, but why react like that if you say nothing or just repeat that the confrontation is over? He tries to stay angry and sound mad, but you can hear it in his voice-he wants to die. Even if you haven't beaten him hardly at all and have given him no indication his family is dead. Even though, when at that point, he has no idea the zombies are coming and the fence is going to fail.
Any thoughts?
Another thing to note is that his plate seems untouched at the dinner table. Its possible he still feels guilty over his actions.
Duck, no matter how you try to spin it, the concept you've described is just too much of a stretch. There wasn't a single moment in episode 2 when Andy looked even remotely repentant about his actions, and assigning a "redemptive" story arc to the character would be silly. I often get sick of Robert Kirkman's pessimistic view of humanity myself, but in Andy's case, it doesn't take a genius to see the man is/was beyond all help.
Did you miss this:
Also, I've been thinking about it, and maybe he does regret what he's become. Think of the fight between him and Lee. Even if you beat him violently, he still gets up and threatens you. It's only after you reply and start to walk away that he begins to get desperate and is essentially pleading with Lee to come back and finish him. This reaction makes sense if you choose to reply by telling him his mother and Danny aren't coming or are dead, but why react like that if you say nothing or just repeat that the confrontation is over? He tries to stay angry and sound mad, but you can hear it in his voice-he wants to die. Even if you haven't beaten him hardly at all and have given him no indication his family is dead. Even though, when at that point, he has no idea the zombies are coming and the fence is going to fail.
He wants to die and is essentially begging for it. That's regret.
I think that's more of a case of reading something into Andy's last words that isn't really there. He doesn't "want to die" so much as do whatever he can to kill Lee. It's as straightforward as that. There's no ulterior motive, no other subtext, than murderous male machismo.
Unless he was crazy (wait, he was.... you know what I mean) he would have to realize that he couldn't kill Lee in his shape. And if he was doing everything to kill Lee, wouldn't he try and get the rifle a few feet away from him?
Lee just knocked the stuffing out of him. After a beatdown like that, I probably wouldn't be able to think of something as obvious as picking up the rifle either.
I don't see how you can say that. The look on his face is heartbreaking, and he falls to his knees, and practically in tears, demands that Lee come back and finish this. It's obvious he's lost the fight and is outnumbered. Lee coming back means his death, which is pretty clearly what he is asking for. Breaking down and pleading is hardly "macho", and I don't see anyone buying that as the reason behind his words and actions then.
He's hysterical because his entire family is dead (or soon will be), his beloved home is being overrun, and now the people who were supposed to be the slabs of meat on his dinner table are walking away. The man is not pleading. It's the last, desperate taunt of a demon who's had his pitchfork broken, and is now trying to drag someone else with him down to hell.
Look, it's clear you've put a lot of time and thought into this idea, and you're obviously doing all you can to keep this thread going, but I simply think Andy as a character doesn't have enough meat and gristle to him for the kind of scenario you're imagining. Of course, if Telltale decided to do something along the lines of what you've suggested, who knows. I'd be happy to eat crow if it turned out great.
On the other hand, if you're really crazy about getting this concept out into the world, by all means write a piece of fan fiction. I'd love to read it.
See, you're hurting yourself here. As I have now pointed out twice, Andy will break down in this way even if you don't tell him or even imply something has happened to his family, and it occurs BEFORE the generator fails and the zombies start to overrun the farm. I don't see how you could have missed this, since I even pasted it in reply to your above post.
Trying to dismiss his behavior as him just being macho feels almost insulting.
Likewise, you saying what you say about his character is kind of insulting. You don't seem to have really understood the characters. I bet you'd say the same about Danny, and you'd be very wrong. Maybe read some of the many character analysis out there?
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Carol. A game/TV show cross over can happen since TV Carol can't be the comic Carol.
I don't know what you're talking about, but please don't derail this topic.O_o
No comment?O_o
[removed]
Reported for trolling. Keep that kind of offensive trash out of my topic, Z05.
What's your problem? If you can't be civil, then maybe you should go away. You said something, I replied, then you ignored what I said and said the same thing over again. That's rude and doesn't make for good discussion.
[removed]
Reported for being a troll!
Well, maybe some of them do look at the forums. Maybe they already planed something like this.
Help Nate. I like Nate.
In an apocalypse you don't get to be sentimental.
Nate chooses his own friends and foes and he seems like he care about his allies (most of the time)
On the other hand, Nate had a teammate as well, who got shot by Eddie. No wonder he has gone a bit wayward.
What is want to say is that Nate is not a good person. He is a survivalist and I would be happy to see Clementine on his good side. It seems a bit like Nate wanted Russel to be his sidekick or something anyway.