I don't think Ben sees much violence relating to the bandits, I've played the game several times and I've never heard of him actually encountering the bandits, he mentions that he recognises two of them but he doesn't directly suggest he had direct contact with them, otherwise he wouldn't have presumed that Lee and Mark were bandits initially, I understand it's more his mate but they were only to quick to refer to Lee as one of them rather than the other possibility of them being other survivors, odds are this is based on them being quite young and afraid but I still feel that Ben doesn't know very much about the bandits.
As far as I'm aware Ben's objective wasn't to get the bandits to stop them but to save his supposedly kidnapped friends, which is the start of the chain of events, Lee taking the supplies is still merely the consequence of Ben's stealing. His desire to look out for his friends is what puts his current group in danger, it's not his inability to foresee the future that it my problem, it is the act itself, at no point is lying and stealing from your group a good idea, in any environment. While I think he does help the group in one sense and I can see his logic, the lying is what created those chain of events, just like Lilly shooting the bandit and the St. Johns choosing the get themselves killed, it's all relative.
Ben has only been a part of the group for two weeks between the events of episode two and three, in two weeks I imagine that only one or two exchanges would've taken place. Also I can't see much of their supplies would've gone missing in two weeks and I doubt there would be daily bandit attacks, how many times can bandits attack in two weeks without penetrating the wall by by then?, it took them less than five minutes to get in undetected on episode 3 without firing a shot so I think if the bandits had've wanted to they could have, they literally walk in on episode three.
Because I'm looking at things from the principle of causality, I can see you're point and you're right in your belief, I however believe that the actions of others are brought on by key points and in this case Ducks death starts with Ben giving the bandits supplies, Ben himself feels responsible and Kenny literally feels the same, my version of Lee did too (he tells Ben he could throw him off the train). I look at it in the simple way of the ripple effect, Ben chooses to give bandits supplies which causes Lee to investigate (something that isn't really his choice) leading to the bandit raid, Lilly choosing to shoot the bandit leader, etc. I can see how the more variables the greater the question and less chance of narrowing things down but all these variables are related to each other and they all have one thing in common, they actually happened, this means that for all the other possibilities or "what ifs" this is the one scenario in which it couldn't have happened any other way, it makes Ben responsible for starting these series of events because no matter how many variables that could be thrown in there they always lead back to Ben causing the bandits to blind side Lee's camp when a very distracted Lilly is dealing with Lee, the attack looks more planned than impromptu granted but Ben essentially caused Lilly to become even more unstable, made Lee investigate and ensured the bandits would be even more angry.
I could be wrong but from where Ben, Kenny and my own rendition of Lee were standing, he started of the whole chain of events, what upset me was when I realised that Lee only lives for about a quarter of the time that the campers from 400 days actually do,I spent ten or so hours saving Clemetine's bacon only to find that there's five newcomers who make a better go of things than he did. I shall miss Lee but look forward to seeing Russell and Shell again.
I didn't down thumb you dude, I gave you an up, peace
The situation with Ben is very similar to the situation with Clementine. In both cases, a naive kid was persuaded by an outsider that he or sh… moree could gain something valuable by giving into their demands. For Clementine, it was the promise of seeing her parents again. For Ben, it was the safety of the group.
Just as we need to remember how strong Clem's relationship with her parents is, we also need to keep in mind Ben's past with those bandits. He's seen what they can do. He saw them tear his entire group apart, picking them off one by one and doing unspeakable things to his friends. So when he's presented with an opportunity to get them to leave the group alone, he took it. It was dumb that he didn't tell anyone else about it, sure, but I think it's quite understandable why he did it.
And it did work for a while until Lee took the supplies back. If you want to get technical that's what set the chain of events off. If Lee hadn't found the s… [view original content]
My perception of Ben's experience with the bandits has been somewhat influenced by some unused audio from Episode 2 that I found (it's on Youtube if you want to check it out). But even without it, Travis did mention that the bandits were the ones who raided their camp and that they "barely got away." The cut audio was a lot more explicit about what happened, but even from the little that remained, you could tell that Ben and his friends had some pretty close encounters with the bandits. The fact that they were so quick to think that anyone they met were bandits is evidence that they've had some experience dealing with them.
Causality is tricky. You can say that Lee taking the supplies was the result of Ben's stealing but then you could also say that Ben stealing was the result of the bandits' initial attack. From there, you could say that the initial bandit attack was the result of them not getting any more food from the dairy and that, in turn, was caused by Lee killing off the St Johns, which was caused by everyone wanting to check out the dairy when the St. Johns visited. In a linear story like this, all of the events are connected so if you follow the ripple effect backwards long enough, you could end up blaming the bandit attack on anybody and everybody.
I agree that the bandits did seem like they were capable of raiding the motor in before they actually did. Maybe they would have if Ben hadn't paid them off. We don't know. And what if the bandits raiding the motor in earlier would have led to Clem getting shot and killed? Knowing that, could we then say that Ben's actions saved Clementine? I say no, because there's no way he could have foreseen that as being a consequence of his actions just like there was no way that he could have foreseen Duck getting bit as a consequence of his actions.
You're right that pretty much everyone thinks that Ben could be blamed for Duck's death, including himself, and I see where they're coming from, but I still think they're wrong.
To be fair dude, it's not like either of us haven't taken this game seriously or to heart, clearly many people on this thread have spent a long time thinking about this amongst many other things relating to this game. I suppose the variables of the scenarios within the game are going to give people different perceptions and opinions, I am not on here to tell you that you're wrong or that I am right, it's just interesting to hear someone else's opinion. I see your point on the camp and I would've liked to have some more story involving the bandits, it's a great game and all we can do is look forward to the next series : )
My perception of Ben's experience with the bandits has been somewhat influenced by some unused audio from Episode 2 that I found (it's on Yout… moreube if you want to check it out). But even without it, Travis did mention that the bandits were the ones who raided their camp and that they "barely got away." The cut audio was a lot more explicit about what happened, but even from the little that remained, you could tell that Ben and his friends had some pretty close encounters with the bandits. The fact that they were so quick to think that anyone they met were bandits is evidence that they've had some experience dealing with them.
Causality is tricky. You can say that Lee taking the supplies was the result of Ben's stealing but then you could also say that Ben stealing was the result of the bandits' initial attack. From there, you could say that the initial bandit attack was the result of them not getting any more food from the dairy and that, in tur… [view original content]
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I don't think Ben sees much violence relating to the bandits, I've played the game several times and I've never heard of him actually encountering the bandits, he mentions that he recognises two of them but he doesn't directly suggest he had direct contact with them, otherwise he wouldn't have presumed that Lee and Mark were bandits initially, I understand it's more his mate but they were only to quick to refer to Lee as one of them rather than the other possibility of them being other survivors, odds are this is based on them being quite young and afraid but I still feel that Ben doesn't know very much about the bandits.
As far as I'm aware Ben's objective wasn't to get the bandits to stop them but to save his supposedly kidnapped friends, which is the start of the chain of events, Lee taking the supplies is still merely the consequence of Ben's stealing. His desire to look out for his friends is what puts his current group in danger, it's not his inability to foresee the future that it my problem, it is the act itself, at no point is lying and stealing from your group a good idea, in any environment. While I think he does help the group in one sense and I can see his logic, the lying is what created those chain of events, just like Lilly shooting the bandit and the St. Johns choosing the get themselves killed, it's all relative.
Ben has only been a part of the group for two weeks between the events of episode two and three, in two weeks I imagine that only one or two exchanges would've taken place. Also I can't see much of their supplies would've gone missing in two weeks and I doubt there would be daily bandit attacks, how many times can bandits attack in two weeks without penetrating the wall by by then?, it took them less than five minutes to get in undetected on episode 3 without firing a shot so I think if the bandits had've wanted to they could have, they literally walk in on episode three.
Because I'm looking at things from the principle of causality, I can see you're point and you're right in your belief, I however believe that the actions of others are brought on by key points and in this case Ducks death starts with Ben giving the bandits supplies, Ben himself feels responsible and Kenny literally feels the same, my version of Lee did too (he tells Ben he could throw him off the train). I look at it in the simple way of the ripple effect, Ben chooses to give bandits supplies which causes Lee to investigate (something that isn't really his choice) leading to the bandit raid, Lilly choosing to shoot the bandit leader, etc. I can see how the more variables the greater the question and less chance of narrowing things down but all these variables are related to each other and they all have one thing in common, they actually happened, this means that for all the other possibilities or "what ifs" this is the one scenario in which it couldn't have happened any other way, it makes Ben responsible for starting these series of events because no matter how many variables that could be thrown in there they always lead back to Ben causing the bandits to blind side Lee's camp when a very distracted Lilly is dealing with Lee, the attack looks more planned than impromptu granted but Ben essentially caused Lilly to become even more unstable, made Lee investigate and ensured the bandits would be even more angry.
I could be wrong but from where Ben, Kenny and my own rendition of Lee were standing, he started of the whole chain of events, what upset me was when I realised that Lee only lives for about a quarter of the time that the campers from 400 days actually do,I spent ten or so hours saving Clemetine's bacon only to find that there's five newcomers who make a better go of things than he did. I shall miss Lee but look forward to seeing Russell and Shell again.
I didn't down thumb you dude, I gave you an up, peace
My perception of Ben's experience with the bandits has been somewhat influenced by some unused audio from Episode 2 that I found (it's on Youtube if you want to check it out). But even without it, Travis did mention that the bandits were the ones who raided their camp and that they "barely got away." The cut audio was a lot more explicit about what happened, but even from the little that remained, you could tell that Ben and his friends had some pretty close encounters with the bandits. The fact that they were so quick to think that anyone they met were bandits is evidence that they've had some experience dealing with them.
Causality is tricky. You can say that Lee taking the supplies was the result of Ben's stealing but then you could also say that Ben stealing was the result of the bandits' initial attack. From there, you could say that the initial bandit attack was the result of them not getting any more food from the dairy and that, in turn, was caused by Lee killing off the St Johns, which was caused by everyone wanting to check out the dairy when the St. Johns visited. In a linear story like this, all of the events are connected so if you follow the ripple effect backwards long enough, you could end up blaming the bandit attack on anybody and everybody.
I agree that the bandits did seem like they were capable of raiding the motor in before they actually did. Maybe they would have if Ben hadn't paid them off. We don't know. And what if the bandits raiding the motor in earlier would have led to Clem getting shot and killed? Knowing that, could we then say that Ben's actions saved Clementine? I say no, because there's no way he could have foreseen that as being a consequence of his actions just like there was no way that he could have foreseen Duck getting bit as a consequence of his actions.
You're right that pretty much everyone thinks that Ben could be blamed for Duck's death, including himself, and I see where they're coming from, but I still think they're wrong.
To be fair dude, it's not like either of us haven't taken this game seriously or to heart, clearly many people on this thread have spent a long time thinking about this amongst many other things relating to this game. I suppose the variables of the scenarios within the game are going to give people different perceptions and opinions, I am not on here to tell you that you're wrong or that I am right, it's just interesting to hear someone else's opinion. I see your point on the camp and I would've liked to have some more story involving the bandits, it's a great game and all we can do is look forward to the next series : )