Preserve the adventure genre
I want with this topic say to Telltale Games
that I am glad that your company have chosen to maintain
the adventure genre and put an end to LucasArts and other
publishers negative towards the adventure genre with the words:
"The Adventure Genre Is Dead"
Which is not true at all...:mad:
Telltale Games,Revolution Software, Pendulo Studios and others show
the publishers that adventures is still appreciated today.
So don't just focus on FPS and other genres even if they are good also
but think about the small group who love and miss the 80's, dear publishers.
that I am glad that your company have chosen to maintain
the adventure genre and put an end to LucasArts and other
publishers negative towards the adventure genre with the words:
"The Adventure Genre Is Dead"
Which is not true at all...:mad:
Telltale Games,Revolution Software, Pendulo Studios and others show
the publishers that adventures is still appreciated today.
So don't just focus on FPS and other genres even if they are good also
but think about the small group who love and miss the 80's, dear publishers.
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For your right...
To [something witty]
I hate the Beastie (Is that even how you spell it? Do I care?) Boys.
It must be Thursday.
And as someone who grew up listening to and loving the Beastie Boys, I say SACRILEDGE!
AGREED! Even though I hate most rap, but they don't really count as rap... they're alternative...:D
Note to self:Make awesome Barbaros costume.
EDIT:Wait, wasn't Zelda 2 of the Adventure genre?If it is, I'm just gonna dress as I usually do and say only 3 words,"I AM ERROR."
Besides, it's not the fact that they're rap-ish so much as they're abrasive and loud. Now, I've got no problem with this in general (I could give examples if things weren't so subjective here; what qualifies as abrasive and loud for me might not for another), but something about the way they do it rubs me the wrong way.
Anyway, I pronounce this line of conversation dead so as to stop derailing the thread.
Aww......No dressing up as ERROR then...
The first is to relive the glory days, like a lot of modern day, mediocre adventure games do. They rehash the formula without really doing anything about design problem areas.
The other is go all Dreamfall, and integrate elements of other genres into it. Sometimes these experiments are interesting, but rarely do these attempts actually progress adventure game design.
Telltale is doing pretty good. What they're doing is creating adventure games in a traditional style, but you can see they're thinking about the sorts of problems that adventure games have. I'd still like to see someone take a truly revolutionary step with the genre, but their evolutionary approach is progressive in its own right.
Of course me personally, I'm working on an adventure game project that definitely falls much further in the "evolutionary" than "revolutionary" category. But hey, I'm just getting started; no sense shooting for the stars when you're still learning to hit a target five feet in front of you.
You stole my Hallowe'en costume idea!
I was going to make a really cool tentacle costume. Oh well.:D
The only thing that keeps people interested in adventure games are projects like ScummVM and ocassional new releases like Sam & Max. Japanese never really embraced the point and click style, but if they did, things might have been different - with them being responsible for the console revolution and all.
I remember the times when adventure games were published on monthly basis. Some better, some worse, but the genre was thriving. I did buy them and play them, I continued to support the genre for many years but the gaming industry had changed. Just like in the times of adventure games there was no place for 3D fighting, realistic car driving games and mindblowing first person shooters, now there's very little space for adventure games. I guess people choose to beat up each other in Tekken or interact with each other in World of Warcraft rather than be figuring out how to make a rope with a hook out of a jar of mustard, old shoe and a pink ribbon.
I love adventure games and I would like to see more of them but I guess the times changed and there's no market for them. I remember playing "Prisoner of Ice" or "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream". It was exciting, challenging, entertaining ... I loved every second of it. Even when I got stuck, I knew there is a way to figure it all out. Now the closest you can get to this kind of action is Biohazard / Resident Evil type games, which are becoming more and more action oriented.
I guess all we have left are those few titles like Sam & Max and abitious projects like AGS and the great titles that came with it [Apprentice, Nelly Cootalot].
Whats wrong with keyboard keys and click.
That whole post is full of wrong. For one thing, to this day, the Japanese game developers are rediscovering point and click Adventure games on Nintendo's DS and Wii systems, such as with the Gyakuten Saiban (Phoenix Wright) series and the new Zack & Wiki game that came out.
Also, just because P&C Adventure games aren't a dominant genre anymore doesn't mean that they're dead. Otherwise, you wouldn't be at this forum, now would you?
i completely agree with this. hardly any platform games are being released, but they aren't dead are they, same with strategy games, and flight sims (arcade or otherwise).
Actually, the japanese have have a pretty big adventure game industry that has been very much alive all these years. Most of these games were never translated though.
So that's what? Two titles? Yea, the Japanese really did a great job of reinventing the genre. Besides, just because you point and click does not mean it's a point and click adventure. "Look! I'm pointing at the TV with my wiimote and I'm clicking the buttons ... It's a point and click game, for sure".
Well, I am here and I buy Telltale games, but that doesn't really change much. There's very little going on in the world of point and click adventure games. They simply became as popular as, let's say, flight sims. And no, Ace Combat is not a flight sim.
I somehow knew that the minute I say that Japan is not spitting out point and click adventure games, someone will shout "Zack & Wiki". I own the game, but I would say it's more of a puzzle than your regular adventure.
What I meant was, if japanese developers would embrace the genre as we know it [the point and click model found in LucasArts, Sierra, Revolution and Adventure Soft games], we would probably be seeing such games even today. The standard adventure game market in Japan is non existant [post FM Towns] but they still make tons of eroge dating games which are basically a bunch of stills, load of text and multiple choice answer type gameplay.
Ask a japanese gamer about LucasArts PNCs and they stare at you blankly. Ask them about latest visual novels and they will get all excited.
Anyways, I sure can play my Phantom Hourglass on the DS by pointing and clicking with the stylus, but I don't see it as "point and click reinvented". How many titles current or upcoming titles can you name that use the good old point and click interface as seen in first three Monkey Island games, first two Broken Sword games or the old Sam & Max? Not counting the AGS titles of course.
I'm not trying to get into an argument and read things like "You're wrong! There's Nintendogs! You can point and click at them! There's Zack & Wiki too" because I'm aware of all those titles. What I meant was, there are very few developers willing to make the old style adventure games and Japan basically ignored this model of gameplay, which is a shame because they are the big influence in the gaming industry.
I'm willing to learn about new games, so please name a few. I have nothing against playing in japanese. I would like to underline one thing though, I did mean the classic model point and click. There are plenty of games that fall into the adventure category, but there's very little pointing and clicking. LucasArts' Grim Fandango isn't that far away from the first couple Resident Evil games when you think about it, but that's hardly what I would call a classic model adventure game. In both cases.
Well, you seem to really be into that "point&click" bit of adventure gaming. In my opinion, pointing&clicking is just an interface (even if it's a pretty good one) and not at all the main important thing in the adventure genre. (specifically, I got into the adventure scene back in the text parser times, so I would say the "classic model" for an adventure game would be a text parser, and I actually wouldn't mind a good adventure game even if it came with such a parser)
The DS adventure games I've played (I don't know if you would call them "point&click games" - although there's definitely a bunch of pointing and clicking, and they are also definitely adventure games) are:
1. The 4 Ace Attorney games
2. Hotel Dusk
3. Trace Memory
And the games I don't own but are supposed to also be adventure games are:
4. Touch Detective (2 games, I think)
5. Jake Hunter
6. LifeSigns
(I left out Professor Layton because you'd probably say it's not an adventure game, and actually in this case - unlike in the Zack&Wiki case - I'd tend to agree with you)
So that would be a total of 10 games that were out in the last 3 years (and there's probably a bunch I've missed).
If you want, you can see a list of some of the japanese-only adventure games for the DS here: http://pixelmenu.googlepages.com/reJDS.html
There are 23 games on that list. I can't say how good they are - since I know almost no japanese myself, but I bet they would not fall into the "point&click" category you are looking for.
Only in the sense of the movement controls, and the fact nearly everyone in the game's dead.
I really don't get why games with a keyboard interface, as opposed to a Point and Click one, don't count as real adventure games for you? It's a bit like saying a console FPS isn't an FPS, because it doesn't use the mouse.
Phoenix Wright is definitely an adventure game. Zack and Wiki, I haven't played, but barring the fact that it's set out in a sort of level based system (I think?) it's also an adventure game.
They're not the classic LucasArts style adventure game, but they wouldn't have sold as well if they were. I love the old LucasArts games just as much as most other people here, but the genre has to, and has, branched out.
Also, what would you class Broken Sword 4 as? It's got the choice of keyboard controls AND point and click. Anyone playing with keyboard controls is still playing the same game as the person using the mouse, it's not like they're playing a completely different genre.
They very rarely get released worldwide, which is probably why you've never heard of them.
you can only move with the keyboard not interact i think. so it is point and click
I mentioned and described visual novels in my first post on this page. If anyone missed it, just look up.
I only glanced over the DS adventure games matan linked to, but I see a fair amount of visual novels there. The japanese can get pretty hardcore about this genre and that's what I meant when I said it's a shame they didn't embrace the traditional point and click. Because if something works for them, they can be pretty conservative and release tons of games based on the same gameplay model. And they've been developing visual novels like crazy for years and years and years.
I never wanted to argue whether or not game XYZ is an adventure or not. I just said it's a shame that traditional point and click, LucasArts style, never took off in Japan, because if it did, there would probably be a fair number of hardcore developers making this kind of games for years and years to come.
I can see where you're coming from, since you have access to these visual novel games, you are probably already fed up with them. For me, these games are sort of a new discovery, as I only recently started playing the few games that were translated to english (like Sega CD's Snatcher, and the new DS games) and I've been really enjoying them.
Hmm, yeah, but I guess still none of them would get translated to english (like the "visual novel" games don't) so that would not help us non-japanese speakers, would it
At least, that's the problem I have.