Will Telltale ever make a 2D Sam & Max game?

edited August 2008 in Sam & Max
Sam & Max in 3D is nice, but I for one think that the series and adventure games in general truly belong in 2D.

Does this even have a chance at becoming reality?
«1

Comments

  • edited July 2008
    Probably not. sorry :(
  • edited July 2008
    I can see it being an easter egg/brief scene in a normal Sam & Max game...

    ...right? '-'
  • edited July 2008
    Kedri wrote: »
    I can see it being an easter egg/brief scene in a normal Sam & Max game...

    ...right? '-'

    as a flashback; or dream sequence?
  • edited July 2008
    actually due to the likely-hood that Telltale will actually hire quality artists and draftsmen to pull this off, is slim. lol. j/k

    I think the decision to do Sam and Max in 3d comes under the definitive progress-inducing categories as "fast production" and "re-usability". I very much doubt they'd have a ball re-drawing Sam and Max's sprites to do all the zany animatic sequences they so often do. That and the carefully hand crafted layouts with a billion things going on take a bit of time to do.

    As much as I'm in the same boat as you P-a-C, having an already established library of props, designs and characters already developed, gives Telltale the ability to produce the many episodes they can in the time frame they do.

    It would be nice to see a full-length 2d animated S&M game, but I think that's something the fan base has to develop on their own.
  • edited July 2008
    I prefer it in 3D. It shows everyone that Adventure games aren't a relic of the past, they're just as viable in the age of fancy graphics and three dimensions as any other genre.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited July 2008
    I think the decision to do Sam and Max in 3d comes under the definitive progress-inducing categories as "fast production" and "re-usability".

    That's part of it, but 3D also allows us to do a lot cinematically that we couldn't easily do in 2D (like lighting effects and cool camera cuts), and since we can easily do it in 3D, we do a lot of it! Have you played any recent 2D games and realized how... static they are? I have, and it makes me glad Telltale is a 3D studio. :D
  • edited July 2008
    But just think of how pretty The Curse of Monkey Island is, and there's a lot of cinematic and animations and stuff, you can't really replicate that in 3D. A Vamprye Stories backgrounds look fantastic and I love the character designs, but something about their translation into 3D looks a little lackluster. Still I'm highly anticipating it. But this was about Sam & Max, oh yeah... Sam & Max is a pretty cool game. Every child and man should play it.

    It should be noted that perhaps an overambition or going over budget or something I'm not sure of in Curse of Monkey Island led to the ending being rushed. Still the first half is packed with a lot of cool animation.

    Okay this is a bit of a ramble, my point is that I don't it's a good idea to convince yourself only one way of doing something is the only way. I think both mediums of graphics can be used to do a lot different and great things.
  • edited July 2008
    Do you want to take a guess at what the budget might have been like for COMI? :)
  • edited July 2008
    That's what I was trying to get at, the point I was making was really just a retort to what Emily said, but then she did say recent, so yeah in my sleep deprived state I probably interpreted what she was saying the wrong way.
  • edited July 2008
    As for retro feeling, i've enjoyed Dino Run a lot lately.

    -> http://www.pixeljam.com/dinorun (Oh and don't miss Gamma Bros if you don't know it already.)
  • edited July 2008
    I'm thinking Sam & Max in a cartoonish 2-D style like that of the "Paper Mario" games, but with a lot more grit and more comic book elements would be cool. That said, that artistic direction would require a huge budget, a lot of physics tweaking, a ton of playtesting, and a whole lot of hand-drawn artiwork to give it the flavor. If you told Purcell to draw all the environments for a game, I doubt he'd be interested. :D
  • edited July 2008
    Ive been waiting for DinoRun to come out! Thanks.

    Gamma Bros is EPIC.
  • edited July 2008
    COMI was soooo pretty... oh man.. it was awesome.

    Anyway.. 3d is a more viable option for episodic gaming, reusable characters make for less work for the staff and more time spent on the script and all that awesome stuff. I miss 2d games yes, they have a certain asthetic I feel can't be obtained with 3d but it's a question of which is best for the particular job at hand.

    That said, I miss 2d animation and games. *sniffle*
  • edited July 2008
    I've always preferred 2D to 3D when it comes to adventure games. Nothing beats the old, awesome 2D point'n'click games. I even think the old 256 color, 320x200 Sierra adventure games look better than most 3D adventure games these days.

    That said, I fully understand why Telltale uses 3D and I don't mind that much - they do a very good job at it and graphics isn't everything, either.
    Making everything 2D would just be too much work, especially if you'd want high quality animation and gorgeously rendered or handdrawn (I prefer the latter) backgrounds.
    Unless you have a huge budget, you can do a lot more cool stuff in 3D than you could in 2D.

    So I'm happy with how Telltale are doing things, I don't mind the 3D.. they're awesome games, that's what matters.


    EDIT - my completely unrealistic dream would be -

    Telltale should get the right to Gabriel Knight, hire Jane Jensen to write another one, hire the actors from Gabriel Knight 2 and make a full motion video GK game :eek: :D

    Would be awesome though.
  • edited July 2008
    Just because the original adventure games were in 2D doesn't mean that's the best way to make them. The only reason why most of the 2D games were so good was because they didn't focus on graphics like they do now. Now more focus goes on the graphics so there's less focus on the story.
  • edited July 2008
    It's not because the originals were 2D that I prefer it, it's because it looks better. But I already stated that I don't mind 3D either and I realize it's pretty much the only option.
  • edited July 2008
    Okay, after seeing two amazing seasons of Sam & Max, I no longer see any good reasons for going back to 2D. The problem with certain 3D adventures (Escape from Monkey Island, Simon the Sorcerer 3D, etc) is not that they're in 3D. The problem with them is that their controls aren't as casual and laid-back as point and click is. When you look at the aesthetics of gameplay, Sam & Max is still following the 2D point and click experience. To be honest, I don't see much change in visual style either. When a lot of people hear "3D", they automatically think of something hyper-realistic and dull, and fortunately that's not the kind of thing we're seeing with Sam & Max right now. Sam & Max is still cartoony, even if in a slightly different manner.

    Telltale is doing everything perfectly right now, and I for one would not want them to revert to 2D.
  • edited July 2008
    It's a matter of taste I guess. I still think that in 2D, it's possible to have more detailed and beautiful graphics. But I agree they're doing a terrific job with S&M.
  • edited July 2008
    tabacco wrote: »
    Probably not. sorry :(
    In before Sam and Max DS.
  • edited July 2008
    Just because the original adventure games were in 2D doesn't mean that's the best way to make them. The only reason why most of the 2D games were so good was because they didn't focus on graphics like they do now. Now more focus goes on the graphics so there's less focus on the story.

    actually the first adventure games didn't have graphics, they used text.
  • edited July 2008
    T-man wrote: »
    In before Sam and Max DS.
    Sam & Max on DS would be a dream :P
  • edited July 2008
    Thing is, some games suit the 2d (come on, comi was stunning! it didn't work when they translated the franchise to 3d both in terms of controls and looks)
    BUT can you imagine Grim Fandango being 2d? ok they could have done it and it probably would have looked freaking cool but it WORKED being 3d.. it just.. did.

    I will always prefer 2d because I feel it has more... I dunno.. soul to it I suppose.. but 3d has it's place in the world. I just wish there was less gratuitous 3d around (like all the films made 3d because 3d is cool with the kiddies or some crap)
    Having done 4 years of university studying computer animation, I can tell you, 3d animation is a hell of a lot less of a bitch than frame by frame 2d. Once you have a decent model (which I frankly can't do, 3d modeling is a bitch) which is rigged and weighted correctly you can reuse it as many times as you like making it economical. It does mean that in terms of films they can hash out sequels a lot easier and quicker but hey... In terms of episodic gaming it wouldn't make sense to use 2d. It would take too long, every new episode would need to be redrawn at least partially. in 3d you can just make a few new sets, perhaps a few new models and hey presto, completely new episode visually done, time to focus on plot/script and programming.

    I love text adventure games.. just for the record.. *sigh* I miss them sooooo.
    But no, graphics aren't the be all and end all of a game. It saddens me that so many huge companies don't seem to realise that pretty graphics alone do not a good game make.

    More point and click adventure games on the DS would be a dream! It annoys me that they haven't started churning them out like nobodies business yet. It's the ideal platform for point and click!
  • edited July 2008
    Might cell shading be an option for a 2D-ish look? Im never overly impressed by cell shaded games but for something like Sam & Max and other cartoon inspired games, cell shading might be the closest 3D comes to 2D...

    Mind you, I dont pretend to know how easy cell shading is to produce, or even much about it as it is...as I said, many games that try to look 3D via cell shading dont impress me at all...but, its just a thought...
  • edited July 2008
    Thing is, some games suit the 2d (come on, comi was stunning! it didn't work when they translated the franchise to 3d both in terms of controls and looks)
    BUT can you imagine Grim Fandango being 2d? ok they could have done it and it probably would have looked freaking cool but it WORKED being 3d.. it just.. did.
    Is it even the translation to 3D's fault that Monkey Island 4's controls and look were a bit off? I remember reading Bill Tiller's thoughts on the games art direction condemning the choice of someone who he deemed a great animator but unsuitable for the role of art director being appointed. I didn't mind Monkey Island 4's look so much, I mean it obviously pales in comparison to the other 3. But I find Grim Fandango's look was more specifically tailored to fit the low polygonal constraints of real time 3D in the mid to late nineties and the design and art direction of that game still holds up pretty well.
  • edited July 2008
    I don't mind a lot if it's 2D or 3D. I think there are points which speak for 3D and there are a few points which speak for 2D. I also would go the 3D route, mainly because of the flexibility this brings you and all the nice lightning but in the end it's also kind of pointless because other things are much more important at least to me than if it's 2D or 3D. I do care more about the riddles, the story, the characters, the dialogues, the music and the gfx style as if i have certain camera positions available or if they wiggle and waggle.

    I recently introduced someone, due to the recent Indy, to the Fate of Atlantis adventure and it's still a lot of fun. It for sure could be done more dynamic with 3D but it also didn't feel static to me in a negative way. I mean books most of the time are still printed the same way, those black letters on white paper, still they can be pretty much amazing.

    What i was thinkig for quite some games is that why on earth can't the games share the same look like the covers. For some games this would rock so much. For others it's better going with a more simplified and abstarct look instead. Obviously it has to do with the effort and budget but it just gets you thinking/wishing sometimes.

    Saying so, how would it be if you could play Sam&Max S2 in the style of the cover instead?

    -> http://www.telltalegames.com
  • edited July 2008
    Isn't it already a 2d game with 3d renderings?
  • edited July 2008
    ....not in the slightest?
  • edited July 2008
    taumel wrote: »
    Saying so, how would it be if you could play Sam&Max S2 in the style of the cover instead?
    the style of the cover is indeed quite nice, well steve purcell's current style in general. a 2d game with his graphics would probably be awesome, but won't happen. he's a busy man, i heard.
    however, a short sequence in one of the upcoming s&m games might be possible. if the game contained something like a flashback that could be done in 2d with purcell doing a handfull of sprites. similar to the text-adventure part in reality 2.0. i would like that, but if this can't be done...3d is also cool.
  • edited July 2008
    After reading Surfin' the Highway, I definately feel the series should be in hand-drawn 2D. Of course, that would require a lot more work than 3D, but Lucas Arts was able to do it in 1996 with Curse of Monkey Island, right?

    Actually, a great compromise would be cel-shaded 3D.
  • edited July 2008
    I'd work for telltale for cheap just to add some more art back into games, but look - there aren't even any job openings for pre-production designers. I admit that the schedule that the games are launched at doesn't allow a great amount of pre-production, but if Telltale hired a few hard-working artists, they could have themselves a faster revolution.

    The reason that those old LucasArts games were so awesome was exactly because of 2D art. that and good writing of course. But telltale already has excellent writers, they just need more artists to design interesting and original things.

    Problem I often see is that 3DCG artists often don't design the things they model. As awesome as the games are so far, there's a room for improvement in the art department.
  • edited July 2008
    And actually, a 2D episodic series wouldn't be much more work than 3d imho, cause both are equally time consuming. In fact, with 2d, you could take far many more shortcuts than with 3D.

    Sorry to babble on and on, I just miss my childhood games, where people cared about art in media. Oh the times those were...*sigh*
  • edited July 2008
    Will Telltale ever make a 2D Sam & Max game? I hope not, sorry to 2D lovers but I always prefer the 3D
  • edited July 2008
    mish wrote: »
    Sorry to babble on and on, I just miss my childhood games, where people cared about art in media. Oh the times those were...*sigh*

    Not all 2d games have more artistic credibility. Many times it is quite the opposite. Photograph textures are a commonly used shortcut to make the backgrounds seem more artsy than they really are.
  • edited July 2008
    It can be a lot of work, even when using photos as textures. It depends on how they use them.

    Riven used photographed textures but it was still a ton of work to make and it looks gorgeous.
  • edited August 2008
    IMO 2D Adventure Games reached its pinnacle with Day of the Tentacle, Curse of Monkey Island, and Full Throttle. There really is no need to go back. Be like Mario going back to 2D, while everyone knows 2D platforming was perfected with Super Mario World.
  • edited August 2008
    I would absolutely LOVE a new, full blown 2D Mario game for one of the 'real' consoles (not handhelds). Just imagine what they could do with 2D these days, with the powerful systems we have now! It could look absolutely stunning.
  • edited August 2008
    Yeah, it's a shame 2D went out of fashion just as developers were really beginning to make stuff look really good in it. The original Rayman still looks great years on, but most 3D games look really dated after a few years.

    A new completely 2D Mario game (ie: no 3D models, pre-rendered or otherwise) for the Wii or whatever would be ace.
  • edited August 2008
    Badwolf wrote: »
    A new completely 2D Mario game (ie: no 3D models, pre-rendered or otherwise) for the Wii or whatever would be ace.

    Super Paper Mario was close, and the upcoming Wario Land Shake is all 2D hand-drawn animation.
  • edited August 2008
    Oh yeah, completely forgot about them. Wario Land looks rad, hope they don't go too overboard with the shake thing though.
  • edited August 2008
    Odin's Sphere has to be one of the most beautiful 2D games that has been released relatively recently.
Sign in to comment in this discussion.