Why Clementine has changed in season 2.
I noticed a few people in a few separate threads alarmed about how much Clementine's personality has changed in season 2. You have to really weigh up what she has gone through up to this point, and the lack of emotional support she has received.
GUILT: Lee, Omid, Kenny, Ben, all die indirectly due to Clementine falling for the strangers lies, or in Omid's case because Clem made a survival mistake.. It is highly likely that Clementine finds herself personally responsible for this.
GRIEF: Ed and Diana (her parents) Lee, Ben, Kenny, Lilly, Ben, Katjaa, Duck, (Carley or Doug).
These are all people she got to know well, three of which had a very personal parental style relationship, and two of which (Ben and Duck) were good friends. Half of these deaths she was a witness to, which is a lot of grief for a single person to bear, especially a chid.
LACK OF EMOTIONAL SUPPORT: Clementine survives with Christa for TWO YEARS before they get separated. After Omid's death, Christa becomes closed off and emotionally cold. That makes two years of trying to cope with that massive amounts of grief and guilt BY HERSELF, compounded to cause the change in her personality within that time. I don't think I have to point out how much Clementine's life would have sucked while she was with Christa. As you might see, there is a really good reason why Clementine changed as much as she did in season 2.
SURVIVALISM: Clementine has been living a life of pragmatic survival for two years now, which requires you to maintain a vigilant mindset. Twice in season 2 we actually do see Clementine's childlike nature shine through, once with the bottle, and once with the Sam the dog, and in true walking dead style, these moments where she has let her guard down have ended tragically. It's no small wonder why she is no longer the hopeful little girl she was in season 2. The world no longer allows for such luxuries of the mind.
Comments
She's been through Hell and seen everything from a guy getting his skull crushed to his parents lurking around , I expected this all along
You really have to play the camp scene with Christa again and fully take in everything Telltale throws at us in that 30 second scene. It is a lot to take in. Many people, such as myself were depressed and distracted by what happened to Christa's baby to realize what the two years had done to Clementine. Two new entries as well: GUILT AND GRIEF: Christa's baby. Clementine witnessed a person close to her lose her child. It's easy to see that the baby might have lived if Omid was there, worsening Clementine's guilty conscience.
Clem has grown up, she realises that this is what it takes to survive amid the ruins of this dark world. Fact is she has expireanced more in 2 years then most people should in there life, nobody should have to go through what clem has, and yet, here we are, thousends and thousend of player all around the world, have gone through all of this with her, we have been on her side since Lee first met her in season 1, we are the only good thing going for her right now, and that might just be enough.
I wonder what it must be like to have thousends of guardian angles watching over you, guideing you through a world were danger lurks around every corner, could you imagen, if you, as a player, could be a real character in this world? and retain the freedom you would expect? we kinda did in season 1, but we all knew who we were. I guess that idea comes from my.... our desire to do whatever it takes to keep her safe. Its an interesting thing most games cant pull off, the desire to protect and care for a character like this, its a once in a life time expireance, i am proud to be apart of.
I shouldn't be changeing the topic with my own crazy concepts, so i apoligise for that, but to your point in this topic, i agree to an extent, she may have changed as far as age is concerned, but i still see the clem of old, she is still the same little girl we met in season 1, this "change" in her is the result of all she has been through, and a new understanding of what it takes to survive, things might be getting worse, but maybe with our help, guidence and abilitys, we can help her get through this, i know it wasn't enough for lee, but i believe this time things will be different. It has to be.
I truly think TellTale will test what we are willing to do to save clem, they will try to push us farther then they did in season 1, they will try, but i don't care what they throw at me, i will do anything to keep clem safe, no matter the cost.
You can't really be sure if she has lost all the hope in this world. Lee told her things will get better again some day so I'm sure she still keeps that thought in mind throughout her days.
Also, I have no Idea how to make proper spacing/paragraphs in this comment system, so sorry if it's a little messy.
(Nice name) I did think her personality would evolve into this eventually too. I think you meant 'Saw her parents as walkers' right?
Indeed. It is sad that the only times her childlike innocence manages to slip through her guard it ends up having her get betrayed or getting someone else killed. Pretty damn good job by Telltale. Actually I posted elsewhere about Telltale 'failing' to put illusion of choice into those three scenes (bathroom gun, Dog beans, and medicine arm). Telltales point there I think, like Lee with Carley, is that we aren't the characters themselves, we only guide them and try to keep them and their friends safe. Those three were major mistakes that Clementine made, and that she couldn't have avoided. She didn't know about the proper usage of that medicine, she is 11, and thus we can't avert that mistake for her. Same reasoning for the dog, she didn't know not to trust starving domesticated animals, she thought she could trust it if she helped it, like one would think of people (though that assumption is often wrong as well).
(also 'amid the ruins', I see what you did there)
She didnt have a normal childhood, im sure she is one of the few kids who survived the apocalypse, the only kid she knew after everything started was duck, her heart was shattered into small pieces when she saw her dead parents when she really thought they were alive, after that her guardian angel lee tells her he is bitten, she lost her parents and lee at the same time, then omid dies, she is been tru a lot no wonder why she changed, on the other hand i think that made her stronger and im happy something good came of all that hell she lived, at least she knows how to deal with bad people and she can protect herself
That is determinant by the way. And the ways Lee can say it are a bit sad. Life going 'back to normal' comes up at least once per episode with Clementine. In the first episode, Clem shows her hope at Herschel's farm, and in episode 4, Clementine reveals her loss of hope of things ever being like they were in the classroom in Crawford if you take her with you. Most of the time with Clementine in season 1, you can't change her mind about something, but you can comfort or upset her.
Remember in the meat locker when Lee says "I wish she didnt have to witness shit like this i wonder how it will effect her when shes older" or something along the lines of that. So maybe this is how all those events have affected her I dont know
Speaking of kids in the Kirkman apocalypse, there are also very few parents that lost kids showing up as characters. I suppose most people would die as a result of trying to protect their kid, or going insane or going Katjaa's....route....as a result over their grief and guilt over failing to protect their child. Man I'm still upset about that. "You don't just...end it because it's hard...you stick it out...and look after the people you care about."
Well, it's right there in this trailer.
So i don't think what Lee says is that determinant to be honest.
If you play season 1 you can choose if you want to say those lines in episode 2 on the swing, there is also the option to say that things probably wont get back to normal.
Wow the emotion in that trailer, thanks for linking it to me, I enjoyed it. But back to the topic:
Telltale often uses 'noncannon' and also determinant scenes in their trailers all the time, EG replacing Andy's model struggling with Lee with a bandits in Starved trailer. I played EP 1 yesterday, Clem asks Lee the (above) trailer question on Herschel farm, and Lee can reply with 'Yeah (leads to the trailer quote)', 'I don't know', or 'I don't think so.' I picked 'Yeah' of course. Good feels reign supreme. But yeah sorry for bringing up a debate on 'Determinant' Quotes. Lee CAN say it, so it's worth some merit. Though that trailer lends itself more to my opinion about Clem losing (at least most) of her season 1 hope.
At first I was like, Shit man your right, she does have hope, there is hope!
Then it did the direct and shocking cut from a happy season one Clem on Herschel's farm in the daylight, to a sad season 2 Clem in the dark woods, alone and pursued by walkers. I think Telltale meant that hope for a normal life is gone for Clementine, all there is now is the fight for survival. Mere survival as Clem's main goal in life is a recurring theme in season 2, she has no higher goal, it sucks, but it is meant to be sad that a child has their highest goal in life being making it through the day. Hoping for more just leads to disappointment.
But yeah can you see how that trailer is pretty 'anti-hope' Antero? (BTW Props to you Ant for helpfully directly linking evidence to support your argument, even if I disagree with what it is meant to mean.)
When Clementine talks to Luke she seems really sad about the people she lost and the unintentional deaths that she has caused, she has never really had anyone apart from Christa to talk to about her feelings but due to how cold Christa is towards Clementine she has suppressed all her emotion which can also caused personality to change, We did see a little bit of the old Clementine in episode 1 but she will never be exactly the same as she was in season 1 as she is also older and more mature which will also change her personalty and the things shes experienced has also changed her outlook on things.
What you said is Especially worth the merit considering the number of tiny details Telltale has put into the game from Lee's decisions raising Clem.
For example whether or not Clem will swear several times throughout the game is based on a single line of dialogue in season 1 episode 1.
I'll admit Clem might have somehope for the future, but you have to admit that there wouldn't be muchleft in her after everything that has happened to everyone she loved. I don't know. I just know that if I was in her shoes, I would have much optimism left in me. And she sounds pretty justifiably depressed in all of her dialogue in season 2.
My thoughts were a little all over the place, so let me iterate: the entire second season is about hope, and so far, mainly losing it. The game begins with Omid, the most optimistic and good natured characters in the game, being killed by another scavenger by mistake. Omid's name means hope. Christa becomes really closed off emotionally, and Clementine's formerly hopeful nature in season 1 changes completely to bleak pragmatism; she doesn't hope for the future, she just tries to survive. This is due to Clem's pent up guilt, grief, and a lack of emotional support from Christa. Lee, Omid, and her Parents were the only things that gave her hope. Now they are all dead, and she has no-one to talk to about it.
TL:DR By season two, Clementine's 'hope' has been slain by the bleak despairing world around her.
"Part of the fun in creating season two is finding the small, poignant moments where Clementine gets to act like a kid again."
With that said i think we'll get to see more happy Clem moments
Man, this trailer still gives me chills.
Oh, I'll just quote my old comment now that we have a thread for it
"You gotta consider that spending two whole years with a cold, distant, cynical Christa has got to have had an effect on Clem's psyche. The very first sentence of Clementine after the time skip is her begging Christa to break the ice and talk to her a bit. That gives us some idea of their relashionship during their time together.
I mean, it'd been two years since Omid and their baby died, and Christa was still acting so bitter and hopeless towards Clementine and their general situation. The slightest mention of Omid, Lee or their current situation or future and Christa starts acting all passive agressive.
Clem was pretty much raised by Christa for a looong time, so it's understandable that a bit of Christa's pessimistic, cynical personality might have gotten to her.
Telltale rushed the Christa / Omid part so much that people seem to have been forgetting that Christa raised Clementine on her own for years."
We'll probably see more Happy scenes in Season 2, because I think the whole thing with the group thinking Clem's group is going to rob them will probably be a happy event in the end. As in, Kenny will have probably joined up with that group. Also, we see her talking to Sarah in the previews, so maybe she has a new friend?
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I hope for more of these moments, but so far Telltale has either interrupted these moments and punished the player and Clem for reveling in them (Sam) or they have placed them within horrible scenes to make them worse (juice box+self surgury). That or they have done the opposite and made us feel bad, like Clem finding a doll and then immediately discarding it in disappointment because its not either food or a weapon.
I do think you are correct though, episode 1 was the Wham! episode to set us up, episode 2 will probably have many more fun/good feels kid moments, like interacting with Sarah. From the looks of things episode 2 will have a lot of hub areas with opportunities for Telltale to have fun with Clem's kid factor, especially with Sarah.
Your well thought out post inspired me to make this thread. Nice profile picture by the way. Dat look.
Thank you.
So
So
Much.
Maybe they make a choice where Clementine finds a paper, some crayons and decides to draw just like how she used to draw in season 1 and we have options about what to draw like based on our choices from season 1 and 2:
Clem and Luke;
Pete and Nick;
Alvin and Rebecca;
Carlos and Sarah;
Clem and Sarah;
Clem and Pete/Nick;
Clem and the cabin group;
Clem and Lee;
Larry and Lilly;
Lee and Carley;
Clem and Ben;
Clem and Duck;
Lee and Kenny/Lilly;
Clem and the motor inn group;
Omid and Christa;