Thats the same idea I got when I was playing epsiode 2 especially after he came to the cabin where clem was and did not try to outright murder or harm her and he also said to no trust the group I thought I was the only one who felt carver was not just some evil monster.
I thought all DLC characters are from Carver's community. I know it's been nearly a year since they joined the community but if Bonnie left that community, came to Savannah and went even further thus found another community (who has AK47's) then she is one lucky peach.
I am expecting some kind of plot twist, and I'm sure that Luke will be involved on this
Luke seems "too good to be true", and by what Carver said about him... I don't know, there's definitely something there
From what we can see, Carver is incredibly reasonable. He just wants Rebecca, and he did an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth with Walter/Alvin.
We haven't had the full story.
You could be right, so I'm not going to throw your idea and many other's out the window but to gut punch a little girl and put a gun to her head..I don't think a good guy would do anything that comes close to that.
I don't fully agree with that. While Carver did react very drastically. I doubt he would have killed Walter, if Kenny hadn't shot Jonny. Carver seems to be a bad guy, but he is not crazy. He follows his own logic and reasoning. It's his moral standards that are questionable.
Dafuq? Carver is reasonable???
First. What about Carlos?
Second. While an eye for an eye may have worked regarding Alvin, Walter was completely innocent.
You have a horrific sense of reason.
I agree he wouldn't have shot Walter had Kenny not shot Johnny. But murdering an innocent person for the mistakes of another is not an eye for an eye and is far, far from reasonable. Carver seems to be fairly crazy, if he wasn't he wouldn't follow the group to find what may be his child. That doesn't say he has lost touch with reality, but he is most definitely crazy to an extent.
You can't twist logic and reason to fit a changing atmosphere. If that's the case then you can't say his moral standards are questionable because 'he follows his own moral standards.' Obviously he follows his own logic and reasoning but by our predisposed disposition of what we consider logic and reason is what we base our ideas of another's logic and reasoning on. What you're saying is just because he doesn't see it as bad/unreasonable then we can't see it as bad/unreasonable.
I don't fully agree with that. While Carver did react very drastically. I doubt he would have killed Walter, if Kenny hadn't shot Jonny. Car… morever seems to be a bad guy, but he is not crazy. He follows his own logic and reasoning. It's his moral standards that are questionable.
I agree with you, Not so much where Luke is the leader of the bandits that attacked Christa and Clementine but the fact that there is more to this being Rebbeca bearing Carver's child.The situation could be more grey than black and white with Alving killing george and Carlos doing something crazy and not nice. Carver's last dialouges seems to imply that Luke WAS the one who guided the group leaving Carver's camp, for someone who could tell three moves away from checkmate just by a look...tricking that person would require more luck,intelligence and possible other character traits("We are smarter than we look" Luke said).
(Also did you guys notice how both of them carry a knife and a gun?)
It is to note that Carver killed Walter because Walter was not one of his(also eye for an eye), and he choose to take Clementine hostage after Alvin because it is more effective to make other party surrender (and It did work, with only one innocent being killed)
I am not saying that Carver is good, he did pointed a gun at a little girl and he did kill someone's husband and partner. Maybe they, the group, all left for a good reason, as it is very obvious that Carver is those charismatic, manipulative son of a bitch leader.
I am guessing in episode 3 Clementine would have to work alongside Carver, and she would have to face a situation where Carver is like I am your mentor/father and Clementine is like nope I already had a menton/father figure.
I agree with you, Not so much where Luke is the leader of the bandits that attacked Christa and Clementine but the fact that there is more t… moreo this being Rebbeca bearing Carver's child.The situation could be more grey than black and white with Alving killing george and Carlos doing something crazy and not nice. Carver's last dialouges seems to imply that Luke WAS the one who guided the group leaving Carver's camp, for someone who could tell three moves away from checkmate just by a look...tricking that person would require more luck,intelligence and possible other character traits("We are smarter than we look" Luke said).
(Also did you guys notice how both of them carry a knife and a gun?)
It is to note that Carver killed Walter because Walter was not one of his(also eye for an eye), and he choose to take Clementine hostage after Alvin because it is more effective to make other party surrender (and It did work, with only one innocent being… [view original content]
I agree with you, Not so much where Luke is the leader of the bandits that attacked Christa and Clementine but the fact that there is more t… moreo this being Rebbeca bearing Carver's child.The situation could be more grey than black and white with Alving killing george and Carlos doing something crazy and not nice. Carver's last dialouges seems to imply that Luke WAS the one who guided the group leaving Carver's camp, for someone who could tell three moves away from checkmate just by a look...tricking that person would require more luck,intelligence and possible other character traits("We are smarter than we look" Luke said).
(Also did you guys notice how both of them carry a knife and a gun?)
It is to note that Carver killed Walter because Walter was not one of his(also eye for an eye), and he choose to take Clementine hostage after Alvin because it is more effective to make other party surrender (and It did work, with only one innocent being… [view original content]
No, you are the one confusing morals with logic. One can be a bad and a reasonable person. Carver follows the group, because he is convinced that it is his baby. So he has a very personal reason to track down the cabin group. He is not following them, just because he can. When Kenny sniped at them, Carver evaluated the situation and did what seemed to be the most beneficial action for his agenda (which is getting Rebecca back to his camp). You can call Carver ruthless or cruel etc. I'm not arguing against that. What I'm arguing against is calling him unreasonable.
Carver is a very calculating character and he is not that hard to predict. He is not a madman. He is intelligent, he can be very manipulative, he has well equiped followers, who seem to be loyal to his cause and he is not afraid to use violence if it furthers his agenda. So he is very powerful person, but I already know what his weakspot is going to be. And the reason (no pun intended) why I know this, is once you understand what his morals are, you can see a clear pattern in his logics and reasoning.
I agree he wouldn't have shot Walter had Kenny not shot Johnny. But murdering an innocent person for the mistakes of another is not an eye … morefor an eye and is far, far from reasonable. Carver seems to be fairly crazy, if he wasn't he wouldn't follow the group to find what may be his child. That doesn't say he has lost touch with reality, but he is most definitely crazy to an extent.
You can't twist logic and reason to fit a changing atmosphere. If that's the case then you can't say his moral standards are questionable because 'he follows his own moral standards.' Obviously he follows his own logic and reasoning but by our predisposed disposition of what we consider logic and reason is what we base our ideas of another's logic and reasoning on. What you're saying is just because he doesn't see it as bad/unreasonable then we can't see it as bad/unreasonable.
You can be bad and reasonable. But he isn't reasonable. The antagonist usually isn't and this is no exclusion. Unreasonable is the absence of reason. He is cunning, and intellectual, and finds the best way to accomplish his goals but he is not reasonable.
I'll not argue the last part of your post. They are correct inferences of plausible theories. I'm not sur anyone truly understands his weak spot yet, after all we haven't seen that much of him and are not sure of his motives beyond that of returning 'his' son/daughter to him. But I can see how a plausible theory can be established from your ideas.
No, you are the one confusing morals with logic. One can be a bad and a reasonable person. Carver follows the group, because he is convinced… more that it is his baby. So he has a very personal reason to track down the cabin group. He is not following them, just because he can. When Kenny sniped at them, Carver evaluated the situation and did what seemed to be the most beneficial action for his agenda (which is getting Rebecca back to his camp). You can call Carver ruthless or cruel etc. I'm not arguing against that. What I'm arguing against is calling him unreasonable.
Carver is a very calculating character and he is not that hard to predict. He is not a madman. He is intelligent, he can be very manipulative, he has well equiped followers, who seem to be loyal to his cause and he is not afraid to use violence if it furthers his agenda. So he is very powerful person, but I already know what his weakspot is going to be. And the reason (no pun int… [view original content]
Yeah...I have a feeling telltale will make us choose between Luke, Kenny.....and Carver...
Seriously If telltale decides to do something unpleasant like kill Luke or do a plot twist where he is the bad guy then I am gonna start rioting.
You know what? I will riot now.
Yeah...I have a feeling telltale will make us choose between Luke, Kenny.....and Carver...
Seriously If telltale decides to do something … moreunpleasant like kill Luke or do a plot twist where he is the bad guy then I am gonna start rioting.
You know what? I will riot now.
YEAHHH RIOT!!
Rebecca is like Lori Grimes she didn't know if the baby was Rick's or Shane's. To be honest I think the baby was Shane's not Rick's because Rick was still in the hospital all that time. Lol major plot twist. What if Luke's really the father of the baby and Carver's trying to steal it? Other point i made a thread back ago stating what if Carver just steal's babies from preganant woman and trains them to survive when they grow up? That is what family is to Carver. Now what if Carver got Krista's baby? Luke did say he's good with woman and children which is kind of creepy lol. Now what if Carver is trying to protect the group from Luke. Could Luke have went out to find a group to take down Kenny and Carver?
You know, one thing that I feel that lacks on TWD is the option to be bad, not that "who's baby is it?" kind of way, the BAD kind of way
Imagine if we could side with Carver or another antagonist, that would be awesome
You know, one thing that I feel that lacks on TWD is the option to be bad, not that "who's baby is it?" kind of way, the BAD kind of way
Imagine if we could side with Carver or another antagonist, that would be awesome
It seems like that way right?? As if Luke knows it is his child and thus was trying to protect her from Carver. It feels like He knows Carver wants Rebbeca and It feels implied that he knows the child is not Alvin's. Why is he the one to know that Rebbeca is bareing a child who's father might not be Alvin's but not Alvin himself?? Is this a new revelation to the whole group??
In actual reality though, the whole thing would be a mindfuck (pardon my french)..too think Rebbeca is playing not with 2 but 3 men.
Rebecca is like Lori Grimes she didn't know if the baby was Rick's or Shane's. To be honest I think the baby was Shane's not Rick's because … moreRick was still in the hospital all that time. Lol major plot twist. What if Luke's really the father of the baby and Carver's trying to steal it? Other point i made a thread back ago stating what if Carver just steal's babies from preganant woman and trains them to survive when they grow up? That is what family is to Carver. Now what if Carver got Krista's baby? Luke did say he's good with woman and children which is kind of creepy lol. Now what if Carver is trying to protect the group from Luke. Could Luke have went out to find a group to take down Kenny and Carver?
I certainly don't see Carver as a "good" person, but there's a lot more to this new group than they're sharing. I personally can't pass a good judgement until I know why Luke and them actually ran away. Rebecca's child I feel is only a small part of a bigger reason. With that said, I'm only taking what Carver says with a grain of salt, but I'm not ready to go and fully support Luke's group either. This could be my downfall but hey, at least it'll be a fun ride.
This, pretty much. He does villainous things, therefore, he is a villain. Sometimes 1 + 1 does actually equal 2.
He is clearly a narcissist who simply will not accept the notion that anybody is allowed to have any free will beyond what he grants them. He probably perceives his actions as generous--a fair trade for whatever protection and order he is willing to provide--but he accepts only one version of order: his own.
His actions are very calculated to leave the impression of fairness, but he is essentially exploiting a world full of people suffering from collective PTSD. Pure manipulator, and a very dangerous guy. Whatever Luke and his group did, I'd want to be free from Carver's clutches, as well, so I'm with them.
Yeah, it's going to take alot to convince me that someone who hunts down people who wanted to leave his community, takes hostages, tortures … morehostages, murders hostages and drags them all back in chains is anything but a villain. An interesting, charismatic villain, sure. But he's going to have to work overtime and then some to convince me to side with him in any way.
Blow my mind, telltale.
Whats wrong with my name. I happen to like Lori from the TV Show and comics and honestly the show has been hurt without herself and Shane. Thank god Rick, Daryl and Carol are still alive.
That's exactly my point, yes. They told us that Carver was a bad guy. But what if THEY are the bad guys in this?
If you analize it a bit, the survivors of the cabin group and his "bad" habits:
-Luke: A bit impulsive (He wants Clem, a little girl, to join him in the "Let's clear the bridge" plan), and a liar. (He prefers to lie to Nick about the photo of Walter and Matthew, and he even didn't want to tell the truth).
-Nick: TOO impulsive. Always shooting at everything before even asking what is happening. Has a big temper too. He almost kill Clem, and he killed Matthew because of that.
-Alvin: A thief and a liar. (He entered in the small cabin where the food was just to steal one of the cans for Rebecca. He didn't thought about the group, only Rebecca, and tried to hide the fact that he tried to get that can)
-Carlos: Paranoid about his daughter. And refused to help Clem when she was hurt, even being himself a doctor. As some characters told us, he killed or hurted someone before when the group escaped from Carver's.
-Rebecca: I don't know the circumstances, but she cheated Alvin with Carver and don't wanted to tell him about it.
-Sarah: Mentally unstable, and TOO innocent.
They have some bad stuff. Yeah, they told us that Carver was a bad guy, but they aren't saints. I don't fully trust them, and I'm not going to eat their "Carver is the worst, we're cool" story until I hear the other side of it.
This. THEY said to us that Carver is evil. Well, he's not a genuine hero like Lee, but... We heard only Luke's opinion. You know, Rebecca wa… morented to escape because of the child maybe and she convinced her husband, Alvin. Luke and Carlos are the "rebels", Sarah obviously followed her father. And Nick was convinced by Luke, we all have to remember that Luke has leadership in his veins.
Comments
Hai Lori! Where's Carl?
[removed]
Any sympathy I could've had for him left when he tortured Carlos in front of his own daughter
I can't sympathize with people like that
You may not be a troll but what do you think people will think from seeing your posts
I am expecting some kind of plot twist, and I'm sure that Luke will be involved on this
Luke seems "too good to be true", and by what Carver said about him... I don't know, there's definitely something there
He's not in the house that's for sure. He never is.
Thats the same idea I got when I was playing epsiode 2 especially after he came to the cabin where clem was and did not try to outright murder or harm her and he also said to no trust the group I thought I was the only one who felt carver was not just some evil monster.
I thought all DLC characters are from Carver's community. I know it's been nearly a year since they joined the community but if Bonnie left that community, came to Savannah and went even further thus found another community (who has AK47's) then she is one lucky peach.
yes luke seems very phony to me I don't know what it is but I just cant seem to trust the guy
Dafuq? Carver is reasonable???
First. What about Carlos?
Second. While an eye for an eye may have worked regarding Alvin, Walter was completely innocent.
You have a horrific sense of reason.
You could be right, so I'm not going to throw your idea and many other's out the window but to gut punch a little girl and put a gun to her head..I don't think a good guy would do anything that comes close to that.
I don't fully agree with that. While Carver did react very drastically. I doubt he would have killed Walter, if Kenny hadn't shot Jonny. Carver seems to be a bad guy, but he is not crazy. He follows his own logic and reasoning. It's his moral standards that are questionable.
I agree he wouldn't have shot Walter had Kenny not shot Johnny. But murdering an innocent person for the mistakes of another is not an eye for an eye and is far, far from reasonable. Carver seems to be fairly crazy, if he wasn't he wouldn't follow the group to find what may be his child. That doesn't say he has lost touch with reality, but he is most definitely crazy to an extent.
You can't twist logic and reason to fit a changing atmosphere. If that's the case then you can't say his moral standards are questionable because 'he follows his own moral standards.' Obviously he follows his own logic and reasoning but by our predisposed disposition of what we consider logic and reason is what we base our ideas of another's logic and reasoning on. What you're saying is just because he doesn't see it as bad/unreasonable then we can't see it as bad/unreasonable.
One of the themes of season 2 is "trust"....
We'll see...
I agree with you, Not so much where Luke is the leader of the bandits that attacked Christa and Clementine but the fact that there is more to this being Rebbeca bearing Carver's child.The situation could be more grey than black and white with Alving killing george and Carlos doing something crazy and not nice. Carver's last dialouges seems to imply that Luke WAS the one who guided the group leaving Carver's camp, for someone who could tell three moves away from checkmate just by a look...tricking that person would require more luck,intelligence and possible other character traits("We are smarter than we look" Luke said).
(Also did you guys notice how both of them carry a knife and a gun?)
It is to note that Carver killed Walter because Walter was not one of his(also eye for an eye), and he choose to take Clementine hostage after Alvin because it is more effective to make other party surrender (and It did work, with only one innocent being killed)
I am not saying that Carver is good, he did pointed a gun at a little girl and he did kill someone's husband and partner. Maybe they, the group, all left for a good reason, as it is very obvious that Carver is those charismatic, manipulative son of a bitch leader.
I am guessing in episode 3 Clementine would have to work alongside Carver, and she would have to face a situation where Carver is like I am your mentor/father and Clementine is like nope I already had a menton/father figure.
I reeeeally think that Carver will surprise all of us
Wow, what a really good theory. I won't be surprised either if TT pulls a plot twist on us with Carver's character.
No, you are the one confusing morals with logic. One can be a bad and a reasonable person. Carver follows the group, because he is convinced that it is his baby. So he has a very personal reason to track down the cabin group. He is not following them, just because he can. When Kenny sniped at them, Carver evaluated the situation and did what seemed to be the most beneficial action for his agenda (which is getting Rebecca back to his camp). You can call Carver ruthless or cruel etc. I'm not arguing against that. What I'm arguing against is calling him unreasonable.
Carver is a very calculating character and he is not that hard to predict. He is not a madman. He is intelligent, he can be very manipulative, he has well equiped followers, who seem to be loyal to his cause and he is not afraid to use violence if it furthers his agenda. So he is very powerful person, but I already know what his weakspot is going to be. And the reason (no pun intended) why I know this, is once you understand what his morals are, you can see a clear pattern in his logics and reasoning.
You can be bad and reasonable. But he isn't reasonable. The antagonist usually isn't and this is no exclusion. Unreasonable is the absence of reason. He is cunning, and intellectual, and finds the best way to accomplish his goals but he is not reasonable.
I'll not argue the last part of your post. They are correct inferences of plausible theories. I'm not sur anyone truly understands his weak spot yet, after all we haven't seen that much of him and are not sure of his motives beyond that of returning 'his' son/daughter to him. But I can see how a plausible theory can be established from your ideas.
Yeah...I have a feeling telltale will make us choose between Luke, Kenny.....and Carver...
Seriously If telltale decides to do something unpleasant like kill Luke or do a plot twist where he is the bad guy then I am gonna start rioting.
You know what? I will riot now.
YEAHHH RIOT!!
You know, one thing that I feel that lacks on TWD is the option to be bad, not that "who's baby is it?" kind of way, the BAD kind of way
Imagine if we could side with Carver or another antagonist, that would be awesome
Man...Lori got bitchy
Rebecca is like Lori Grimes she didn't know if the baby was Rick's or Shane's. To be honest I think the baby was Shane's not Rick's because Rick was still in the hospital all that time. Lol major plot twist. What if Luke's really the father of the baby and Carver's trying to steal it? Other point i made a thread back ago stating what if Carver just steal's babies from preganant woman and trains them to survive when they grow up? That is what family is to Carver. Now what if Carver got Krista's baby? Luke did say he's good with woman and children which is kind of creepy lol. Now what if Carver is trying to protect the group from Luke. Could Luke have went out to find a group to take down Kenny and Carver?
Guys just stop,Lori,maybe you are not a troll...You should all stop before somebody gets banned...
Haha, I dont think my poor heart could take on such choicees..that would be sooo evil indeed
It seems like that way right?? As if Luke knows it is his child and thus was trying to protect her from Carver. It feels like He knows Carver wants Rebbeca and It feels implied that he knows the child is not Alvin's. Why is he the one to know that Rebbeca is bareing a child who's father might not be Alvin's but not Alvin himself?? Is this a new revelation to the whole group??
In actual reality though, the whole thing would be a mindfuck (pardon my french)..too think Rebbeca is playing not with 2 but 3 men.
My vision of Carver ? A man with noble intentions (creating a community where everyone is safe) but with very violent methods.
I certainly don't see Carver as a "good" person, but there's a lot more to this new group than they're sharing. I personally can't pass a good judgement until I know why Luke and them actually ran away. Rebecca's child I feel is only a small part of a bigger reason. With that said, I'm only taking what Carver says with a grain of salt, but I'm not ready to go and fully support Luke's group either. This could be my downfall but hey, at least it'll be a fun ride.
This, pretty much. He does villainous things, therefore, he is a villain. Sometimes 1 + 1 does actually equal 2.
He is clearly a narcissist who simply will not accept the notion that anybody is allowed to have any free will beyond what he grants them. He probably perceives his actions as generous--a fair trade for whatever protection and order he is willing to provide--but he accepts only one version of order: his own.
His actions are very calculated to leave the impression of fairness, but he is essentially exploiting a world full of people suffering from collective PTSD. Pure manipulator, and a very dangerous guy. Whatever Luke and his group did, I'd want to be free from Carver's clutches, as well, so I'm with them.
Thats a nice way to put it. Accurate even.
Everybody block her on Facebook
That's exactly my point, yes. They told us that Carver was a bad guy. But what if THEY are the bad guys in this?
If you analize it a bit, the survivors of the cabin group and his "bad" habits:
-Luke: A bit impulsive (He wants Clem, a little girl, to join him in the "Let's clear the bridge" plan), and a liar. (He prefers to lie to Nick about the photo of Walter and Matthew, and he even didn't want to tell the truth).
-Nick: TOO impulsive. Always shooting at everything before even asking what is happening. Has a big temper too. He almost kill Clem, and he killed Matthew because of that.
-Alvin: A thief and a liar. (He entered in the small cabin where the food was just to steal one of the cans for Rebecca. He didn't thought about the group, only Rebecca, and tried to hide the fact that he tried to get that can)
-Carlos: Paranoid about his daughter. And refused to help Clem when she was hurt, even being himself a doctor. As some characters told us, he killed or hurted someone before when the group escaped from Carver's.
-Rebecca: I don't know the circumstances, but she cheated Alvin with Carver and don't wanted to tell him about it.
-Sarah: Mentally unstable, and TOO innocent.
They have some bad stuff. Yeah, they told us that Carver was a bad guy, but they aren't saints. I don't fully trust them, and I'm not going to eat their "Carver is the worst, we're cool" story until I hear the other side of it.