yeah, no problem it really makes me wish that you could view all of the edits someone makes on their post, because editing makes it VERY easy to cover yourself and hide your original argument, however hurtful or problematic it may be. there is absolutely no way for someone to know what you initially said if they read your post after you edit it, which leads to unnecessary misunderstandings such as this one
Looking back at this post with the edit really threw me, I kind of forgot how it had originally been written. Here I was thinking that for s… moreome reason I was being an unnecessary asshole but in retrospect yeah that's how it was phrased and I think it's valid for me to be grossed out by that. Thank you for pointing that out.
maybe. that's your opinion; some'll share it, some won't. i don't really have strong feelings one way or the other... kinda bored of hearing… more the whole 'bromance' thing though. would rather they be boyfriends honestly, but maybe that's just cause dudes who refer to each other as 'bros' tend to remind me of those chauvinistic alpha male douchebags
er... but i digress. personally, i don't really think their reactions at the dinner table 'disproved' the possibility--in fact i thought the defensiveness nick had almost seemed like he was hiding something, to be honest--but we as the players have the freedom to interpret it any way we want at this point, as nothing has been explicitly proven or otherwise. same thing with their conversation later on: the "you coming to tuck me in?" banter seemed flirty to some people. i imagine telltale is gonna keep it pretty ambiguous for this reason
Shipping anyone with Nate is ridiculous in my opinion. How can anyone listen to how he talks about women and want him with anyone? I think the Carlos and Carver thing is just people being silly because their names almost match.
It's as open as it can be, I suppose. There are still people who just flat-out deny Walt and Matt were gay, even after the evidence is point… moreing out to them. But times are changing, I suppose. Maybe they'll come around, maybe they won't, but for the most part Walt and Matt have been pretty positively received and it's nice to see that.
Shipping can be really weird. There are things I like and things I tolerate, but yeah, Clem/Luke is nasty, Nate/Molly is... ridiculous. As for Carver, oh man. I've already seen people shipping Carlos and Carver. You know... the one guy who beat the shit out of the other to force the group into revealing Rebecca. Totally romantic.
Ahh well New Vegas is literally like my favorite video game on the planet so I'm quick to relate things to it.
I almost feel like Clem would be a point where it might not even phase her that much. It's the zombie apocalypse, this girl's sewn up her own damn arm. The concept of two boys smooching is pretty damn tame in comparison.
I doubt that Clementine would be "disgusted" by them being a couple as she has never been around any homophobic people as far as i am aware,… more She might be slightly confused at first as she has only been around heterosexual people (unless she met any homosexual survivors during the 16 month time skip), she seems like a nice and understanding person so i don't think the would be too bothered by it.
fo shizz I don't mind nuke we had mister walt disney and matty but nuke, they seem too brotherly for kissy kissy and mo mizzle lukey and clemmy together that is more wrong than drinking fizzy pop after a munching a chilli pepper they be brother and sister relationship
I was thinking that too and her hair is too straight. Clementine's hair should have some curl to it. Its a nice picture but it should look more like what an adult Clem would look like.
Ugh, agreed, Nate is a huge misogynist and I don't want to subject any female character to him. Nate/Russell is a huge thing as well, which... kind of makes me wonder if I played the same game as some of these people. Because I cannot imagine anything romantic going on there. Maybe some kind of creepy fixation on Nate's part but honestly even that's pushing it.
I dunno, in regards to CarCar it definitely started out with the names, but people start out joking and then it becomes serious, I've seen it happen.
Shipping anyone with Nate is ridiculous in my opinion. How can anyone listen to how he talks about women and want him with anyone? I think the Carlos and Carver thing is just people being silly because their names almost match.
Its been my experience that people ship every possible combination of character, whether it makes sense or not. I dont think most people really take shipping more seriously than just a fun thing to speculate on.
Ugh, agreed, Nate is a huge misogynist and I don't want to subject any female character to him. Nate/Russell is a huge thing as well, which.… more.. kind of makes me wonder if I played the same game as some of these people. Because I cannot imagine anything romantic going on there. Maybe some kind of creepy fixation on Nate's part but honestly even that's pushing it.
I dunno, in regards to CarCar it definitely started out with the names, but people start out joking and then it becomes serious, I've seen it happen.
Its been my experience that people ship every possible combination of character, whether it makes sense or not. I dont think most people really take shipping more seriously than just a fun thing to speculate on.
That doesn't really imply they're saying they're messed up for the pedophilic or homophobic natures of those relationships, though. It comes off more as seeing them "messed up" for shipping characters in the first place. Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top priority when there is little but fan speculation to support it. She likely edited it out because a lot of people were reading too deeply into it.
Many people have a lot of sensitivity regarding perceived sexism or homophobia. A bit of clumsy wording can get you labelled a bigot. Nothing about "first clem and luke, now luke and nick. that's messed up" really strikes me as Rileee actually trying to say that LukexNick was "messed up" for being a gay couple (because again, she could have easily complained about WaltxMatthew). Whether you agree with the ship or not, there is certainly something a little messed up with how crazy the shipping is getting. At least for a game like TWD.
actually, Yes_Man, i just want to point out that the OP was edited. it originally said something along the lines of "first clem and luke, no… morew luke and nick. that's messed up"
so yeah, the original post did appear to be comparing the two ships, by describing them both as "messed up", it's just that they edited that part out after we called them out on it (if you look at my first post on this thread, you see that i question OP's use of the phrase "messed up", and my rebuttal now makes little sense as she edited it out of her original post)
Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top priority when there is little but fan speculation to support it.
Okay, I've seen this exact same thing said before and I really do not buy it because it's only ever used to argue against gay pairings. I'm not implying that you think that yourself but you brought it up and I want to address it.
Rebecca is pregnant and the controversy surrounding it is that there are multiple possible fathers, but no one questions that. Kenny's former family is gone and he was living like a hermit in a restaurant when Sarita found him, yet there's no debate as to whether or not it's realistic for him and Sarita to be together. Lee/Carley never had any outward romantic dialogue or interaction, yet it's almost universally accepted that they would have ended up together if Carley hadn't died.
But the moment you suggest that maybe two guys might want to shack up, it suddenly turns into, "They're too busy trying to survive to think about sex." And it's simply not like that, the human psyche doesn't work like that. People will be stinky and starving and dirty but they'll still want to bang.
That doesn't really imply they're saying they're messed up for the pedophilic or homophobic natures of those relationships, though. It comes… more off more as seeing them "messed up" for shipping characters in the first place. Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top priority when there is little but fan speculation to support it. She likely edited it out because a lot of people were reading too deeply into it.
Many people have a lot of sensitivity regarding perceived sexism or homophobia. A bit of clumsy wording can get you labelled a bigot. Nothing about "first clem and luke, now luke and nick. that's messed up" really strikes me as Rileee actually trying to say that LukexNick was "messed up" for being a gay couple (because again, she could have easily complained about WaltxMatthew). Whether you agree with the ship or not, there is certainly somethi… [view original content]
Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top pri… moreority when there is little but fan speculation to support it.
Okay, I've seen this exact same thing said before and I really do not buy it because it's only ever used to argue against gay pairings. I'm not implying that you think that yourself but you brought it up and I want to address it.
Rebecca is pregnant and the controversy surrounding it is that there are multiple possible fathers, but no one questions that. Kenny's former family is gone and he was living like a hermit in a restaurant when Sarita found him, yet there's no debate as to whether or not it's realistic for him and Sarita to be together. Lee/Carley never had any outward romantic dialogue or interaction, yet it's almost universally accepted that they would have ended up together if Carley hadn't died.
But the moment you sugg… [view original content]
well said. even if the world is falling down all around them, some people will still fall for each other. just cause it's the apocalypse doesn't mean that those feelings just disappear
not to mention, "banging" each other isn't a requirement to be in a relationship--relationships don't have to be sexual. it bothers me that people assume that if you ship two characters together, you just want to see them have sex and nothing more. that's not true, at least not for me
Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top pri… moreority when there is little but fan speculation to support it.
Okay, I've seen this exact same thing said before and I really do not buy it because it's only ever used to argue against gay pairings. I'm not implying that you think that yourself but you brought it up and I want to address it.
Rebecca is pregnant and the controversy surrounding it is that there are multiple possible fathers, but no one questions that. Kenny's former family is gone and he was living like a hermit in a restaurant when Sarita found him, yet there's no debate as to whether or not it's realistic for him and Sarita to be together. Lee/Carley never had any outward romantic dialogue or interaction, yet it's almost universally accepted that they would have ended up together if Carley hadn't died.
But the moment you sugg… [view original content]
I use this as an excuse against shipping in general, it just so happens that most of the shipping that happens in-game is for homosexual pairings. NickxLuke is one thing, but I remember WyattxEddie was and still is a pretty big deal. TWD fandom tends to overthink dialog between close male characters.
But let's address the relationships you mentioned. Rebecca and Alvin were married before the outbreak occurred. We don't know a lot about Carver or his compound yet, but it clearly offered safety and a lot of amenities like food and water to support the number of people most assume it to have. So in that instance, yes, it would be a comfortable enough situation for the characters to be able to have sex without a lot of thought to danger or physical barriers. We don't really know to what lengths Kenny and Sarita's relationship has gone, but being at the lodge offered them a chance to relax and develop their relationship in a similar way. The same goes for the motor inn. They were starving, sure, but they were relatively safe. Versus Nick and Luke, who not only had a recent incident but have spent a week on the run.
You also failed to mention how Matthew and Walter were a canon relationship, which I have no problem with because they were together before the outbreak and were in a safe location. Of all the character's we've met in TWD, how many have been in a serious relationship? How many who were in serious relationship died? Families don't last in TWD, and that includes couples. It's a similar way to how a female presence is said to effect army units. If you perceive someone as in need of protection, then you'll put yourself in harm's way more than usual in a dangerous situation. Wouldn't you do that for someone you love? My comment was not sexuality specific, and you may have wanted to prove a point but by ignoring everything else I said and addressing that ONE point as if I was specifically speaking of homosexuals is unfair.
I still stand by my stance that shipping is a strange, nonsensical thing for TWD because the characters are struggling to survive and it makes little sense to interpret those close bonds formed by people who HAVE to rely on each other as something romantic. The human psyche doesn't work like that. You can't choose who or when you love. But in a prolonged, stressful situation your mind has greater priorities than who you want to sleep with. Even the established couples barely acted like couples, their relationships twisted by the necessity of survival. You never see Alvin or Rebecca being especially lovey dovey, but Alvin goes out of his way to make sure she eats and Rebecca is adamant that he agree with her decisions for the good of the group.
Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top pri… moreority when there is little but fan speculation to support it.
Okay, I've seen this exact same thing said before and I really do not buy it because it's only ever used to argue against gay pairings. I'm not implying that you think that yourself but you brought it up and I want to address it.
Rebecca is pregnant and the controversy surrounding it is that there are multiple possible fathers, but no one questions that. Kenny's former family is gone and he was living like a hermit in a restaurant when Sarita found him, yet there's no debate as to whether or not it's realistic for him and Sarita to be together. Lee/Carley never had any outward romantic dialogue or interaction, yet it's almost universally accepted that they would have ended up together if Carley hadn't died.
But the moment you sugg… [view original content]
I think a lot of people don't understand that when Clem is 18 Luke is going to be early to mid 30s. Im not saying that the age difference is… more necessarily a huge issue but I see Clem as a daughter figure (somewhat) and when i see stuff like Cluke it frustrates the hell out of me.
Okay, what i was trying to say are all these ships are annoying to me, sorry for sounding like i meant otherwise, but no, i dont have anything against it if they were actually gay. Thats not what i meant, but it seems like thats not how it came out
That doesn't really imply they're saying they're messed up for the pedophilic or homophobic natures of those relationships, though. It comes… more off more as seeing them "messed up" for shipping characters in the first place. Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top priority when there is little but fan speculation to support it. She likely edited it out because a lot of people were reading too deeply into it.
Many people have a lot of sensitivity regarding perceived sexism or homophobia. A bit of clumsy wording can get you labelled a bigot. Nothing about "first clem and luke, now luke and nick. that's messed up" really strikes me as Rileee actually trying to say that LukexNick was "messed up" for being a gay couple (because again, she could have easily complained about WaltxMatthew). Whether you agree with the ship or not, there is certainly somethi… [view original content]
I know what you meant, it's just sexuality and sexism are hot topics right now so anything that can be misread and interpreted as intolerance is sniffed out and hounded. Attempting to correct it only made people who are incapable of admitting they took something the wrong way jump to the conclusion that you were trying to hide your disdain for gay shipping. It's pretty sad when people strawman a question or discussion by labeling and addressing something as if it were homophobia.
Okay, what i was trying to say are all these ships are annoying to me, sorry for sounding like i meant otherwise, but no, i dont have anything against it if they were actually gay. Thats not what i meant, but it seems like thats not how it came out
I know what you meant, it's just sexuality and sexism are hot topics right now so anything that can be misread and interpreted as intoleranc… moree is sniffed out and hounded. Attempting to correct it only made people who are incapable of admitting they took something the wrong way jump to the conclusion that you were trying to hide your disdain for gay shipping. It's pretty sad when people strawman a question or discussion by labeling and addressing something as if it were homophobia.
It's fine, you just tried to take away what was fueling people's misunderstanding.
Those who don't understand why people don't enjoy seeing Shipping around is because most of TWD players don't seriously do it. I myself come to this forum to see user created content and to discuss the game. If you want to discuss who you theorize to be in love with who, go to tumblr or Youtube. The only theories I want to see on the TTGFs are ones that the majority of people can discuss and actually appreciate. I barely care about the established relationships IN game, so seeing people talk about relationships that don't canonically exist does nothing for me. Well, nothing except give me second-hand embarrassment.
@Rylee, I'm sorry for originally misinterpreting your thread. I now see what you meant by your post after you edited it and explained yourself. Like @Yes_Man, I'm not a fan of shipping at all. It's sad to me how sexual relationships are getting the spotlight over platonic ones, so I kind of jumped to conclusions on that one.
@Rylee, I'm sorry for originally misinterpreting your thread. I now see what you meant by your post after you edited it and explained yourse… morelf. Like @Yes_Man, I'm not a fan of shipping at all. It's sad to me how sexual relationships are getting the spotlight over platonic ones, so I kind of jumped to conclusions on that one.
yes, we misunderstood her intent, that happens a lot over the internet. but listen, the only problem i had with her editing her post is that, when she edited it, the new post made skoothz and i look like we were just being absolutely ridiculous and fanatical, getting upset about things that weren't even there or implied
Rylee, i really do apologize for taking your post the wrong way and unintentionally putting words in your mouth, i just would have liked if you had provided a disclaimer to clear things up when you replied to my comment about your usage of the phrase "messed up" before deleting it from your original post and making it look like it was never there in the first place
look, Yes_Man, it's really not a big deal and i wasn't trying to strawman anyone. the whole point of my post about the OP's ninja-edit was just to clear up why exactly skoothz and i perceived and were annoyed by the cluke/nuke comparison. since you asked skoothz when that was implied "at all", i assumed you saw the post after it was edited and i just wanted to fill you in as to why we said what we did
the reason we were defensive was because people compare homosexuality to really disgusting things all the time, like pedophilia and bestiality. on this forum alone i have seen MANY people indirectly comparing the homosexuality of nuke to the pedophilia of cluke, even in a joking way, and that's why i assumed that's what Rylee meant. i assume skoothz thought the same thing and that's why she was bothered by it as well
i didn't mean to attack you, Rylee, I just assumed you were just like all of those people and i'm sorry
I know what you meant, it's just sexuality and sexism are hot topics right now so anything that can be misread and interpreted as intoleranc… moree is sniffed out and hounded. Attempting to correct it only made people who are incapable of admitting they took something the wrong way jump to the conclusion that you were trying to hide your disdain for gay shipping. It's pretty sad when people strawman a question or discussion by labeling and addressing something as if it were homophobia.
yes, we misunderstood her intent, that happens a lot over the internet. but listen, the only problem i had with her editing her post is that… more, when she edited it, the new post made skoothz and i look like we were just being absolutely ridiculous and fanatical, getting upset about things that weren't even there or implied
Rylee, i really do apologize for taking your post the wrong way and unintentionally putting words in your mouth, i just would have liked if you had provided a disclaimer to clear things up when you replied to my comment about your usage of the phrase "messed up" before deleting it from your original post and making it look like it was never there in the first place
look, Yes_Man, it's really not a big deal and i wasn't trying to strawman anyone. the whole point of my post about the OP's ninja-edit was just to clear up why exactly skoothz and i perceived and were annoyed by the cluke/nuke comparison. since you asked skoot… [view original content]
the thing is, most of the shippers ARE on tumblr and other websites. for the most part, the only people who bring it here are the ones who want to troll and make fun of it or fuel the fire between shippers and anti-shippers
that's how it is in many game communities, i've noticed. the shippers usually stay on tumblr or whatever minding their own business, and the anti-shippers find out about it and bring it to the online forums to whine about it or just to see people argue. it's annoying and it just leads to unnecessary fighting that the shippers don't want or need to deal with
It's fine, you just tried to take away what was fueling people's misunderstanding.
Those who don't understand why people don't enjoy seei… moreng Shipping around is because most of TWD players don't seriously do it. I myself come to this forum to see user created content and to discuss the game. If you want to discuss who you theorize to be in love with who, go to tumblr or Youtube. The only theories I want to see on the TTGFs are ones that the majority of people can discuss and actually appreciate. I barely care about the established relationships IN game, so seeing people talk about relationships that don't canonically exist does nothing for me. Well, nothing except give me second-hand embarrassment.
I can see why you would not want to be seen as fanatical, but I think a few posts looking a little extreme is preferable to keeping a statement there that can so easily be blown out of proportion. And no, you actually made your arguments well. You weren't the one I was accusing of making a strawman argument. That said, I don't think you should take people joking too seriously. If people were really homophobic, they'd have issues with WalterxMatthew. That and generally people who legitimately dislike gay relationships aren't going to be changed by Internet comments, so it's best not to give them the fuel to spread bigotry.
I think a lot of the negativity towards Nuke and gays in games in general is because they're typically handled poorly and the character's sexuality ends up defining that character. This is often mostly for bragging rights by development teams so that they can flaunt how progressive they are. A character can be flamboyant and still be a good character, I mean the Gay Tony DLC for GTAIV was amazing. But characters like Veronica and Arcade from Fallout New Vegas or Walter and Matthew aren't the characters that come to mind when homosexual video game characters are brought up. People unfortunately tend to think first of new Bioware characters which makes people's skepticism and negative expectations of gay characters or even hinted relationships understandable. It takes a good writer to write any kind of relationship into a game without having it defining the characters.
Personally I'm in the camp that thinks of Luke and Nick as having a platonic, brotherly bond. Nick clearly envies a lot of Luke's traits whereas Luke feels protective of Nick who is understandably fragile.
yes, we misunderstood her intent, that happens a lot over the internet. but listen, the only problem i had with her editing her post is that… more, when she edited it, the new post made skoothz and i look like we were just being absolutely ridiculous and fanatical, getting upset about things that weren't even there or implied
Rylee, i really do apologize for taking your post the wrong way and unintentionally putting words in your mouth, i just would have liked if you had provided a disclaimer to clear things up when you replied to my comment about your usage of the phrase "messed up" before deleting it from your original post and making it look like it was never there in the first place
look, Yes_Man, it's really not a big deal and i wasn't trying to strawman anyone. the whole point of my post about the OP's ninja-edit was just to clear up why exactly skoothz and i perceived and were annoyed by the cluke/nuke comparison. since you asked skoot… [view original content]
the thing is, most of the shippers ARE on tumblr and other websites. for the most part, the only people who bring it here are the ones who w… moreant to troll and make fun of it or fuel the fire between shippers and anti-shippers
that's how it is in many game communities, i've noticed. the shippers usually stay on tumblr or whatever minding their own business, and the anti-shippers find out about it and bring it to the online forums to whine about it or just to see people argue. it's annoying and it just leads to unnecessary fighting that the shippers don't want or need to deal with
hmm... true. i don't watch a lot of big youtubers, so i didn't think of that, sorry
i did, however, hear about that one guy whose name i can't remember, saying that clem and luke should hook up or something. don't know if he was trolling or serious, but either way, still really gross
yes, it does really bother me too that, most of the time, characters aren't just "characters who happen to be gay", they have to be a token "gay character". it's similar to the way lesbians are often tailored and sexed up for the straight male gaze, which is getting better too thankfully but it still exists and is annoying and a little offensive to know that, as a lesbian/girl who likes girls, you're not being taken seriously
like i said in my second comment on this thread, one good thing about nick and luke's relationship right now is it's ambiguity, so everyone has the freedom and luxury of interpreting it any way they want, be that best friends or otherwise. as long as we don't insult other peoples' opinions, everyone is free to speculate/headcanon
I can see why you would not want to be seen as fanatical, but I think a few posts looking a little extreme is preferable to keeping a statem… moreent there that can so easily be blown out of proportion. And no, you actually made your arguments well. You weren't the one I was accusing of making a strawman argument. That said, I don't think you should take people joking too seriously. If people were really homophobic, they'd have issues with WalterxMatthew. That and generally people who legitimately dislike gay relationships aren't going to be changed by Internet comments, so it's best not to give them the fuel to spread bigotry.
I think a lot of the negativity towards Nuke and gays in games in general is because they're typically handled poorly and the character's sexuality ends up defining that character. This is often mostly for bragging rights by development teams so that they can flaunt how progressive they are. A character can be flamboyant … [view original content]
I literally typed the sentence "Also not all romantic relationships have to involve sex" but omitted it because it felt a bit too off-topic. But yeah, I've personally headcanoned a handful of characters as asexual and can still see them in romantic relationships because romance =/= sex.
well said. even if the world is falling down all around them, some people will still fall for each other. just cause it's the apocalypse doe… moresn't mean that those feelings just disappear
not to mention, "banging" each other isn't a requirement to be in a relationship--relationships don't have to be sexual. it bothers me that people assume that if you ship two characters together, you just want to see them have sex and nothing more. that's not true, at least not for me
I didn't mention Walter and Matthew because the last time I argued this, the person said that relationships that existed prior to the apocalypse don't count, so I didn't bother mentioning any of those.
We actually have seen tender moments between Rebecca and Alvin (for example, when Clementine says she sees a ski lodge and Rebecca mentions fondly how she and Alvin used to going skiing). They're humans, not survival-oriented machines. Regardless of how stressful the situation is, you'll go just about feral is all you ever think about is survival. You need tender moments to remind you of who you are.
I just don't see how it's so utterly unlikely for two people who had an existing close bond to start relying on each other in a more romantic and/or sexual manner in a disaster situation like this. If it makes sense for characters like Lee and Carley or Kenny and Sarita to start a relationship in the apocalypse, then why can't it for Luke and Nick?
This just feels like a poor excuse to justify not wanting to see shipping. It's okay if you don't like shipping. When I first got into the game it came off as really out-of-place to me as well, because it's such a dark and serious game. But I've noticed that with dark games, the fandom tries to use light-hearted things to cope with the awful stuff going on in canon. That being said, though, should Nuke become canon I don't even view it as something particularly light-hearted. I discussed in another thread how, judging by their personalities and dynamic, I saw it more as secretive and toxic than enjoyable--which is one of the reasons I like the idea of it. Because I love seeing characters miserable.
I use this as an excuse against shipping in general, it just so happens that most of the shipping that happens in-game is for homosexual pai… morerings. NickxLuke is one thing, but I remember WyattxEddie was and still is a pretty big deal. TWD fandom tends to overthink dialog between close male characters.
But let's address the relationships you mentioned. Rebecca and Alvin were married before the outbreak occurred. We don't know a lot about Carver or his compound yet, but it clearly offered safety and a lot of amenities like food and water to support the number of people most assume it to have. So in that instance, yes, it would be a comfortable enough situation for the characters to be able to have sex without a lot of thought to danger or physical barriers. We don't really know to what lengths Kenny and Sarita's relationship has gone, but being at the lodge offered them a chance to relax and develop their relationship in a similar way. The sa… [view original content]
This art bugs me because aside from the hat there was no effort at all to make it look like Clementine. The hair's too loose, doesn't have the right nose or eye shape; just a generic "hot girl survivalist", not Clem.
yes, we misunderstood her intent, that happens a lot over the internet. but listen, the only problem i had with her editing her post is that… more, when she edited it, the new post made skoothz and i look like we were just being absolutely ridiculous and fanatical, getting upset about things that weren't even there or implied
Rylee, i really do apologize for taking your post the wrong way and unintentionally putting words in your mouth, i just would have liked if you had provided a disclaimer to clear things up when you replied to my comment about your usage of the phrase "messed up" before deleting it from your original post and making it look like it was never there in the first place
look, Yes_Man, it's really not a big deal and i wasn't trying to strawman anyone. the whole point of my post about the OP's ninja-edit was just to clear up why exactly skoothz and i perceived and were annoyed by the cluke/nuke comparison. since you asked skoot… [view original content]
Its sad to see that whenever i'm searching "the walking dead game clementine" one of the first recommended searches is "the walking dead game clementine rule 34". I think i've been scarred.
If Clementine was like that in Season Two then yes, you can ship her with Luke. But c'mon guys she's 11 year old kid. I just came across thi… mores Clementine Rule 34 stuff, and my eyes don't feel so good. So don't try it. It's not funny. It only proves that you're just another nasty pedophilia shit. Who started this? Oh yeah. I remember! Damn you Greg Miller!
Comments
yeah, no problem
it really makes me wish that you could view all of the edits someone makes on their post, because editing makes it VERY easy to cover yourself and hide your original argument, however hurtful or problematic it may be. there is absolutely no way for someone to know what you initially said if they read your post after you edit it, which leads to unnecessary misunderstandings such as this one
They seem like brothers to me, I never got any other vibe. Thats why i dont like the ship, it seems incestuous.
Shipping anyone with Nate is ridiculous in my opinion. How can anyone listen to how he talks about women and want him with anyone? I think the Carlos and Carver thing is just people being silly because their names almost match.
I almost feel like Clem would be a point where it might not even phase her that much. It's the zombie apocalypse, this girl's sewn up her own damn arm. The concept of two boys smooching is pretty damn tame in comparison.
fo shizz I don't mind nuke we had mister walt disney and matty but nuke, they seem too brotherly for kissy kissy and mo mizzle lukey and clemmy together that is more wrong than drinking fizzy pop after a munching a chilli pepper they be brother and sister relationship
I was thinking that too and her hair is too straight. Clementine's hair should have some curl to it. Its a nice picture but it should look more like what an adult Clem would look like.
Ugh, agreed, Nate is a huge misogynist and I don't want to subject any female character to him. Nate/Russell is a huge thing as well, which... kind of makes me wonder if I played the same game as some of these people. Because I cannot imagine anything romantic going on there. Maybe some kind of creepy fixation on Nate's part but honestly even that's pushing it.
I dunno, in regards to CarCar it definitely started out with the names, but people start out joking and then it becomes serious, I've seen it happen.
Its been my experience that people ship every possible combination of character, whether it makes sense or not. I dont think most people really take shipping more seriously than just a fun thing to speculate on.
I know, I just don't like seeing someone being shipped with a guy who beat the shit out of them in front of their child.
That doesn't really imply they're saying they're messed up for the pedophilic or homophobic natures of those relationships, though. It comes off more as seeing them "messed up" for shipping characters in the first place. Believe it or not but a lot of people find it hard to believe that stinky, starving, dirty people would have banging each other as a top priority when there is little but fan speculation to support it. She likely edited it out because a lot of people were reading too deeply into it.
Many people have a lot of sensitivity regarding perceived sexism or homophobia. A bit of clumsy wording can get you labelled a bigot. Nothing about "first clem and luke, now luke and nick. that's messed up" really strikes me as Rileee actually trying to say that LukexNick was "messed up" for being a gay couple (because again, she could have easily complained about WaltxMatthew). Whether you agree with the ship or not, there is certainly something a little messed up with how crazy the shipping is getting. At least for a game like TWD.
Okay, I've seen this exact same thing said before and I really do not buy it because it's only ever used to argue against gay pairings. I'm not implying that you think that yourself but you brought it up and I want to address it.
Rebecca is pregnant and the controversy surrounding it is that there are multiple possible fathers, but no one questions that. Kenny's former family is gone and he was living like a hermit in a restaurant when Sarita found him, yet there's no debate as to whether or not it's realistic for him and Sarita to be together. Lee/Carley never had any outward romantic dialogue or interaction, yet it's almost universally accepted that they would have ended up together if Carley hadn't died.
But the moment you suggest that maybe two guys might want to shack up, it suddenly turns into, "They're too busy trying to survive to think about sex." And it's simply not like that, the human psyche doesn't work like that. People will be stinky and starving and dirty but they'll still want to bang.
I did edit my post because i think it gave people the wrong message
well said. even if the world is falling down all around them, some people will still fall for each other. just cause it's the apocalypse doesn't mean that those feelings just disappear
not to mention, "banging" each other isn't a requirement to be in a relationship--relationships don't have to be sexual. it bothers me that people assume that if you ship two characters together, you just want to see them have sex and nothing more. that's not true, at least not for me
I use this as an excuse against shipping in general, it just so happens that most of the shipping that happens in-game is for homosexual pairings. NickxLuke is one thing, but I remember WyattxEddie was and still is a pretty big deal. TWD fandom tends to overthink dialog between close male characters.
But let's address the relationships you mentioned. Rebecca and Alvin were married before the outbreak occurred. We don't know a lot about Carver or his compound yet, but it clearly offered safety and a lot of amenities like food and water to support the number of people most assume it to have. So in that instance, yes, it would be a comfortable enough situation for the characters to be able to have sex without a lot of thought to danger or physical barriers. We don't really know to what lengths Kenny and Sarita's relationship has gone, but being at the lodge offered them a chance to relax and develop their relationship in a similar way. The same goes for the motor inn. They were starving, sure, but they were relatively safe. Versus Nick and Luke, who not only had a recent incident but have spent a week on the run.
You also failed to mention how Matthew and Walter were a canon relationship, which I have no problem with because they were together before the outbreak and were in a safe location. Of all the character's we've met in TWD, how many have been in a serious relationship? How many who were in serious relationship died? Families don't last in TWD, and that includes couples. It's a similar way to how a female presence is said to effect army units. If you perceive someone as in need of protection, then you'll put yourself in harm's way more than usual in a dangerous situation. Wouldn't you do that for someone you love? My comment was not sexuality specific, and you may have wanted to prove a point but by ignoring everything else I said and addressing that ONE point as if I was specifically speaking of homosexuals is unfair.
I still stand by my stance that shipping is a strange, nonsensical thing for TWD because the characters are struggling to survive and it makes little sense to interpret those close bonds formed by people who HAVE to rely on each other as something romantic. The human psyche doesn't work like that. You can't choose who or when you love. But in a prolonged, stressful situation your mind has greater priorities than who you want to sleep with. Even the established couples barely acted like couples, their relationships twisted by the necessity of survival. You never see Alvin or Rebecca being especially lovey dovey, but Alvin goes out of his way to make sure she eats and Rebecca is adamant that he agree with her decisions for the good of the group.
Yes, exaculy
Okay, what i was trying to say are all these ships are annoying to me, sorry for sounding like i meant otherwise, but no, i dont have anything against it if they were actually gay. Thats not what i meant, but it seems like thats not how it came out
I know what you meant, it's just sexuality and sexism are hot topics right now so anything that can be misread and interpreted as intolerance is sniffed out and hounded. Attempting to correct it only made people who are incapable of admitting they took something the wrong way jump to the conclusion that you were trying to hide your disdain for gay shipping. It's pretty sad when people strawman a question or discussion by labeling and addressing something as if it were homophobia.
Most of them are actually troll threads.
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have edited it.
Not suggesting that pedophilia would be a issue is ignorant and you know it.
It's fine, you just tried to take away what was fueling people's misunderstanding.
Those who don't understand why people don't enjoy seeing Shipping around is because most of TWD players don't seriously do it. I myself come to this forum to see user created content and to discuss the game. If you want to discuss who you theorize to be in love with who, go to tumblr or Youtube. The only theories I want to see on the TTGFs are ones that the majority of people can discuss and actually appreciate. I barely care about the established relationships IN game, so seeing people talk about relationships that don't canonically exist does nothing for me. Well, nothing except give me second-hand embarrassment.
@Rylee, I'm sorry for originally misinterpreting your thread. I now see what you meant by your post after you edited it and explained yourself. Like @Yes_Man, I'm not a fan of shipping at all. It's sad to me how sexual relationships are getting the spotlight over platonic ones, so I kind of jumped to conclusions on that one.
It okay, sorry for giving the wrong message.
No problem at all. To be honest, we all do it from time to time.
yes, we misunderstood her intent, that happens a lot over the internet. but listen, the only problem i had with her editing her post is that, when she edited it, the new post made skoothz and i look like we were just being absolutely ridiculous and fanatical, getting upset about things that weren't even there or implied
Rylee, i really do apologize for taking your post the wrong way and unintentionally putting words in your mouth, i just would have liked if you had provided a disclaimer to clear things up when you replied to my comment about your usage of the phrase "messed up" before deleting it from your original post and making it look like it was never there in the first place
look, Yes_Man, it's really not a big deal and i wasn't trying to strawman anyone. the whole point of my post about the OP's ninja-edit was just to clear up why exactly skoothz and i perceived and were annoyed by the cluke/nuke comparison. since you asked skoothz when that was implied "at all", i assumed you saw the post after it was edited and i just wanted to fill you in as to why we said what we did
the reason we were defensive was because people compare homosexuality to really disgusting things all the time, like pedophilia and bestiality. on this forum alone i have seen MANY people indirectly comparing the homosexuality of nuke to the pedophilia of cluke, even in a joking way, and that's why i assumed that's what Rylee meant. i assume skoothz thought the same thing and that's why she was bothered by it as well
i didn't mean to attack you, Rylee, I just assumed you were just like all of those people and i'm sorry
No, you guys weren't being ridiculous, it actually makes sence the way you guys reacted.
the thing is, most of the shippers ARE on tumblr and other websites. for the most part, the only people who bring it here are the ones who want to troll and make fun of it or fuel the fire between shippers and anti-shippers
that's how it is in many game communities, i've noticed. the shippers usually stay on tumblr or whatever minding their own business, and the anti-shippers find out about it and bring it to the online forums to whine about it or just to see people argue. it's annoying and it just leads to unnecessary fighting that the shippers don't want or need to deal with
I can see why you would not want to be seen as fanatical, but I think a few posts looking a little extreme is preferable to keeping a statement there that can so easily be blown out of proportion. And no, you actually made your arguments well. You weren't the one I was accusing of making a strawman argument. That said, I don't think you should take people joking too seriously. If people were really homophobic, they'd have issues with WalterxMatthew. That and generally people who legitimately dislike gay relationships aren't going to be changed by Internet comments, so it's best not to give them the fuel to spread bigotry.
I think a lot of the negativity towards Nuke and gays in games in general is because they're typically handled poorly and the character's sexuality ends up defining that character. This is often mostly for bragging rights by development teams so that they can flaunt how progressive they are. A character can be flamboyant and still be a good character, I mean the Gay Tony DLC for GTAIV was amazing. But characters like Veronica and Arcade from Fallout New Vegas or Walter and Matthew aren't the characters that come to mind when homosexual video game characters are brought up. People unfortunately tend to think first of new Bioware characters which makes people's skepticism and negative expectations of gay characters or even hinted relationships understandable. It takes a good writer to write any kind of relationship into a game without having it defining the characters.
Personally I'm in the camp that thinks of Luke and Nick as having a platonic, brotherly bond. Nick clearly envies a lot of Luke's traits whereas Luke feels protective of Nick who is understandably fragile.
fo shizzle nizzles I'm glad they don't ship Lee and Clem to be Lemontine
Well, there are also certain Youtube personalities who bring shipping right into the interviews with the talent working on the game.
hmm... true. i don't watch a lot of big youtubers, so i didn't think of that, sorry
i did, however, hear about that one guy whose name i can't remember, saying that clem and luke should hook up or something. don't know if he was trolling or serious, but either way, still really gross
yes, it does really bother me too that, most of the time, characters aren't just "characters who happen to be gay", they have to be a token "gay character". it's similar to the way lesbians are often tailored and sexed up for the straight male gaze, which is getting better too thankfully but it still exists and is annoying and a little offensive to know that, as a lesbian/girl who likes girls, you're not being taken seriously
like i said in my second comment on this thread, one good thing about nick and luke's relationship right now is it's ambiguity, so everyone has the freedom and luxury of interpreting it any way they want, be that best friends or otherwise. as long as we don't insult other peoples' opinions, everyone is free to speculate/headcanon
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Honestly, I dont want that either but Lemontine, hahaha! That just sounds funny to me.
I literally typed the sentence "Also not all romantic relationships have to involve sex" but omitted it because it felt a bit too off-topic. But yeah, I've personally headcanoned a handful of characters as asexual and can still see them in romantic relationships because romance =/= sex.
I didn't mention Walter and Matthew because the last time I argued this, the person said that relationships that existed prior to the apocalypse don't count, so I didn't bother mentioning any of those.
We actually have seen tender moments between Rebecca and Alvin (for example, when Clementine says she sees a ski lodge and Rebecca mentions fondly how she and Alvin used to going skiing). They're humans, not survival-oriented machines. Regardless of how stressful the situation is, you'll go just about feral is all you ever think about is survival. You need tender moments to remind you of who you are.
I just don't see how it's so utterly unlikely for two people who had an existing close bond to start relying on each other in a more romantic and/or sexual manner in a disaster situation like this. If it makes sense for characters like Lee and Carley or Kenny and Sarita to start a relationship in the apocalypse, then why can't it for Luke and Nick?
This just feels like a poor excuse to justify not wanting to see shipping. It's okay if you don't like shipping. When I first got into the game it came off as really out-of-place to me as well, because it's such a dark and serious game. But I've noticed that with dark games, the fandom tries to use light-hearted things to cope with the awful stuff going on in canon. That being said, though, should Nuke become canon I don't even view it as something particularly light-hearted. I discussed in another thread how, judging by their personalities and dynamic, I saw it more as secretive and toxic than enjoyable--which is one of the reasons I like the idea of it. Because I love seeing characters miserable.
Yeah...that just looks like a female version of Luke, wearing Clementine's hat.
I second this and apologize as well. Thank you for typing it out.
Lemontine is rizzle dizzle dawg does moonwalk to sunset
Its sad to see that whenever i'm searching "the walking dead game clementine" one of the first recommended searches is "the walking dead game clementine rule 34". I think i've been scarred.