Wounded Carver
A lot of people have said that Alvin's life was not in vain because we managed to wound Carver. That has brought up an interesting conversation topic:
Was wounding Carver worth it? Was the cost of Alvin's life TRULY worth it based on a hunch or a hope? And to take this topic even deeper, what IS the worth or value of a human life exactly? If life is the most valued thing, then why was Alvin's death considered "worth it"?
To me, Alvin's life is not worth wounding Carver. We got him in the shoulder, yeah, but so what? He just shot one of our group member's in the head as payback. I don't see the good coming from that.
Anyway, share your thoughts below.
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We'll have to find out in episode 3. If it does turn out that Kenny and Carver will get into a dispute, I'd imagine that they could incorporate Carver's injury into how the fight turns out. Possibly resulting in Kenny's winning or losing of the fight. I was also thinking the same thing about a week ago so I'm glad you brought this to light.
If Carver's death was (somehow) guaranteed by getting Alvin killed, would you think it was worth it?
I'm not sure. I think in general, though, sacrificing one person to save many is a worthwhile trade, in most circumstances. If getting Alvin killed meant Carver would be dead, you could reasonably argue it would be worth the risk. That's probably why a lot of people got him killed, actually.
This is just hypothetical, and as it stands now, I would not justify it, but imagine that if because of that decision, Carver is weakened in the final struggle with Clem/Ken/The Group and it allows Clementine to walk alive out of that encounter. Was it worth it, then? Would you, the player, metagame and rewind to save your Clementine's life?
More on topic, I do not consider wounding Carver to be worth a human life, but my own made up dilemma made me doubt my convictions.
I'm a rather poetic individual, but... Subconsciously, when a villain gets wounded in front of their comrades and enemies, a lightbulb goes off in the latter's heads: "This person is mortal." With such a badass character, it can be hard to realize how important that knowledge is - that they can be beaten.
But it is again, based on a hope rather than a knowledge. There is a huge difference between a hope and a knowledge. If we knew that it guaranteed Carver's death, then it would be justified of course.
Unfortunately, this is not the case.
That's true, but it can come back to bite you on the ass, too. It can serve as a reminder that if you fuck with Carver, he will kill people. Poor Alvin.
As of right now, wounding Carver is not worth Alvin's life. However, if Carver being wounded managed to save the life of another later on, or even if the wound goes so far as to cause Carver's death, then it could definitely be worth it, depending on your point of view.
Wounding Carver wasn't worth Alvin's life. But I didn't tell Kenny to shoot because I wanted to wound Carver, I told him to shoot because I wanted to kill him. It didn't end up working out too well but the fact that Kenny was able to wound him made it seem to me like there was a decent chance of success.
The way I saw it, the only way for the group to have escaped that situation was if Carver got taken out. And seeing as how Carver has it out for Alvin anyway, it felt like a risk worth taking.
It isn't guaranteed, no. But it isn't certain that it wouldn't work, either. That's what makes it such a tough choice - do you risk someone's life (Alvin's) at the possibility of potentially saving others (the group)? Like I said, not sure... It's an interesting thing to think about, though.
I'm hoping that they make that shot relevant at some point in episode 3. I jumped at the chance of shooting Carver and now Alvin's dead.
Probably going to be ignored by telltale
For me, going into the episode, I knew that any attempt to kill carver wasn't going to work based on prior knowledge. (ex: grabing the knife, taking the shot at Alvin, etc.) Primarily because I remembered Telltale saying something of the sort like, "we wanted to have more of a villain, this season - an antagonist" and I figured that they wouldn't just introduce their 'big-bad guy' and kill him off within' the same episode. This kind of guy is meant to stick around for a while.
What about the presumably loyal people Carver was with? Do you think they'd have just let them go because their leader was shot dead?
That poor silly bear...
And "big dope".
I don't know, but it didn't seem like Bonnie wanted to be doing what she was doing. At the very least, she had bit of a guilty look on her face when Walter said "It's you!"... When/if Kenny shoots Carver and he's down for that second, Troy arguably has this look on his face like he's not sure what to do.
It's possible, in the very least, that it would buy time as a distraction for somebody to do something. Whether that be Kenny firing again, or one of the cabin group (though tied up) trying something else.
I'm not sure exactly what they would have done but I feel like if Kenny had killed Carver right then and there, we might have been able to negotiate some kind of ceasefire with Bonnie and Troy. The only reason they were pursuing us was because they were following Carver. Once he's dead, what would they have left to fight for?
Hell of a gamble, though.
Considering how decisions have actually carried through the episodes so far, I doubt it will have a huge effect. Your choices matter even less than in Season 1. Choose not to forgive Nick? Nothing happens, he's fine with you the next episode. Choose to tell Carlos that Sarah needs to grow up and he gets mad and doesn't forgive you? Well he'll ask you to watch Sarah a day later during Episode 2.
I'm not saying that there isn't a chance it effects something, but it is a very small chance.
I think that wound will affect him later, but i didnt shoot him because it isnt worth risking a nice characters life.
He will probably die later though, alvin.
True, Bonnie definately would have folded (she didn't want that in the first place), and it doesn't seem like Troy is leader material; plus he seems like he'd be a lot less competent in standing up to a hidden gunman (Kenny) by himself (I think he realized Bonnie wasn't in on it emotionally). Basically, if Carver had been killed it would have been morale=0.
I'll just hope TT doesn't just forget that (if) he got shot, and in both scenarios he would be fine as my dick. That would be shit.
Like if we have 3-7 days of timecut and he would be a-okay no matter what, that would be lazy writing.
Other lazy writing skill would be if Nick gets killed in ep3 before we see Luke we would get same scene as if Nick died in ep2 with slightly different dialogue where's Luke mourn him.
Determent?
?tnemreteD
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Wow this topic is deep. Taking into account human life's worth is a hard thing to do. You need to take first into account what you gain, which is obviously wounding Carver. Then you need to take into account who you lost, who they were as a person, what they brought to the party, and their connection to you/clementine. I'd say no. If we had wounded Carver in a more serious fashion (even if still not killing him) then it might have been worth it. But if I remember correctly he still had good use of his arm. This could come back to help us later, so the loss of Alvin's life wouldn't be completely without purpose, but I still don't think it was worth it.
Its easy in hindsight to say it was not worth wounding Carver because Alvin died, but in the heat of the moment the goal was to kill him. There is a split second where Alvin stares out at Kenny and everything could have been ok, it was just unlucky shot placement. I would say it was worth sneaking out and taking the shot at Carver, because it is important to me not to play into his hands.
Well Carlos does say "I don't want to trust you, but I have to." What was he supposed to do, bring Sarah into the forest full of walkers? His only choice was to leave Clementine and Sarah at the cabin, really.
I don't think a 3-7 day timecut would do it. Kenny was still wounded by Episode 3 from his gunshot wound.
Have to admit I'm surprised so many people thought they could kill the main antagonist in ep 2 of the game. Don't get me wrong in the option I considered it too in the moment
Yeah, but i was talking about lazynesss
I know Telltale already has to juggle an INSANE amount of plot threads in episode 3, but I hope Carver's gunshot wound will at least be acknowledged. A quick determinant scene of Bonnie bandaging Carver's shoulder or something along those lines would be greatly appreciated. Maybe Carver would have even more beef with Kenny, if he actually shot him in HOUSE DIVIDED.
I know that, but what I'm saying is that no matter the choice, the results end up the same either way. Sure a bit of flavor dialog changes but no matter what you choose to do the same major events will always happen. Wounding Carver couldn't possibly change anything but dialog or some minor scenes if Telltale's formula remains the same.
I don't think the shot impacted Carver that much. Doesn't he have a coat made out fur? Something like that could have prevented the shot from doing much.
I think you're right on that one. Take a look at Troy's "deer in headlights" expression a few seconds after Carver gets shot. For a moment it looked like the situation could have gone either way before Carver got back up.
As much as I would want Carver to be wounded, it ain't worth it if Alvin has to be killed and Rebecca loses her husband. If it was up to me, I would find some other way to hurt, or even kill Carver without getting of my friends killed.
If only fur collard coats could save lives...
Yeah well, coats aren't worn on faces...
You misspelled "Detriment"
hopefully it was worth it,a weak Carver looks like it might help Kenny,hope there are 2 variations for the two choices what people made.