Did Rebecca Come Around Too Soon?
Rebecca starts off being a b**** early in season one. I chose the "who's baby is it?" and "You should start being nice to me" lines of dialogue with the intent to somewhat control Rebecca. In episode two she becomes soft, sweet, and apologetic. I feel as though we lost a lot of character development in that quick instant switch. I didn't expect her to show that side until episode 3 or early episode four. I thought we'd be given the choice to maybe spoil the fact that the baby isn't hers to the group or more importantly Alvin. What do you guys think? Should her mean persona or seemingly personal grudge/distrust for Clem have gone on longer? (p.s. I really think the same about Carlos and protecting Sarah but not as concerned as I was rebecca)
Comments
I don't think so. Like Pete said, she has those moods every once in a while. If she were always like that, everybody in the cabin would hate her.
Rebecca and Carlos did seem to come around quickly but atleast with Rebecca we can blame it on her moon swings and pregnancy hormones but with Carlos I'm not sure maybe he didn't have his coffee that day :P
Having to patch someone up in the wee hours of the night, after they stole from my scarce supplies would make me a bit cranky. It's still completely Carlos' own stupid fault for creating the situation in the first place.
Yes.
Telltale probably saw an overwhelming majority chose sassy Clem options while talking to her and thought they should swing in the opposite direction during audio pickups and whatever else for ep2. It was whiplash inducing but they probably hoped it would make us like her more for when she's oh-so-sadly killed off in ep3 and then we'd supposed to be caring about her dumb baby and not treating it like unwanted baggage.
Don't care didn't work hope they both die RIP.
It's possible Clementine happened to see her during one of her bad mood swings, resulting in a bad first impression and having Clem harshly respond in kind. Episode 2, Rebecca's had time to calm down and realize this and apologizes accordingly.
Plus, the idea that Clem's just a little girl whom the group treated like shit probably got to Rebecca's conscience.
I think all of the character's quick reflection and change was abnormal (excluding the fearless Pete and the sweet Luke).
Rebecca - I see you for what you are. I hope you die.
Rebecca v2 - What should I name my child?
Carlos - Lock her in the shed while facing death. She could be a liar and a danger to the group.
Carlos v2 - Watch my sheltered child who I told you not to talk to.
Nick - BANG (at a defenseless Clem)
Nick v2 - BANG (at someone else)
Alvin - Spineless
Alvin v2 - Spineless, but slightly less so
Exactly,whatever is not to peoples liking is defined as lazy writing..it just a mood swing
My thoughts after I finished playing Episode 2.
I think she did too, and I think it's kinda bogus that the game tried to explain it as a pregnant lady's mood swing. I don't consider showing an injured 11-year-old girl zero sympathy, accusing her of being a spy, and being okay with leaving her to die alone in a shed to be a mood swing. I think her warming up to Clem should have been more gradual. Like maybe when they went to look for Nick/Pete, she says something like "I'm sorry we put you in the shed. That wasn't right. I'm glad you're okay, but I still don't trust you."
Regardless of how you respond to Rebecca, she's still extremely hostile towards Clem in episode 1. If you're nice to Carlos, he isn't as mean and doesn't tell her to stay away from Sarah. So his change of heart is a bit more believable.
And while we're on the subject of sudden character changes, I feel like I missed something between Luke's "You were definitely bit and I'm not carrying you, you dog killer," to his "OMG CLEM ARE YOU OKAY? ARE MY FRIENDS BEING MEAN TO YOU? DO YOU WANT SOME DINOSAUR OATMEAL?"
Both Rebecca's and Carlos' behaviour change between Episode 1 and 2 came off as unrealistic to me. It came across to me that the writers realised that Rebecca and Carlos came across as too unlikable in the first Episode (even though they probably were meant to be) and tried to rectify that by making them nicer to Clementine, which didn't appear to work very well since their attitude in Episode 1 made too strong of a bad first impression to simply let go.
EDIT: Changed weren't to were. My mistake.
lol She said that? Damn, that's harsh, even for Rebecca.
Ikr? It's like they were trying to force a companion onto Clem much like how Lee became a companion in Season 1, which was far more natural btw.
I don't think we missed much. Him talking about killing the dog wasn't his point, it was an after thought with little of his mind backing the statement, the point he was trying to make was the dog up and vanished, which Pete directly rectified by talking about why the dog would stick around etc etc. He was shocked when he first saw the bite (who wouldn't be?) Which is where he started freaking out. Hell in a world where a bite turns you into a zombie I would be bat shit crazy every time I saw a bite wound. Pete, again, explained the situation (though I don't doubt Luke would have eventually calmed down and realized he couldn't leave her alone in the woods (or worse) without Pete there).
If you've ever been around a hormonal pregnant woman before, you'd know her sudden mood swings are really common
Especially black mommas. Believe me, I've been there.
I've actually always been saying since the episode 1 release that she would calm down by EP2 and start being nice to Clem.
But no one would listen...
It's good that Clementine is a sweet kid and wouldn't wish death on a pregnant lady for being moody. Unlike most of the playerbase.
You make a great point. Pete probably did rationalize with Luke once he calmed down. I also think that once he saw everyone else ganging up on her, he might have felt bad that he did the same thing in the forest.
Wouldn't doubt it. They all wanted to shoot her dead, someone had to have a somewhat rational mindset.
It's probably because she's pregnant, you can get a temper.
If it were just a bad temper on Rebecca's part, I would say no. But considering that she literally alluded to wanting the death of a wounded child, who in turn potentially blackmails her? I think a bit more of a transition wouldn't have hurt.
That said, if you chose the blackmail route, it kinda feels non-canon anyway, considering it's Clem we're talking about.
Yup. She could have potentially divulged the baby's ambiguous paternity to Alvin and then she's all "feel my baby". She didn't have to remain a total bitch, but I'd think a little reservation after (determinately) receiving a threat like that would be more than natural to have.
lol great post viva so true
Your idea of Clem based on last season or simple personal preference, maybe. However, having a path not considered "cannon" in a game that's all about choice and consequence, in which we shape the protagonist too, basically defeats the purpose of bothering with the illusion of choice in the first place.
You're giving me the choice, I expect characters to (re)act accordingly.
If someone says: "You're playing Clem wrong, because she would not have blackmailed Rebecca." <------- It goes to show pulling Clem off as a protagonist is a difficult task, when some paths conflict with the player's previous view of her. Not as easy as a more or less blank slate like Lee was.
True enough. I do hate it when games don't pull off the illusion of choice properly. It's what drives the engaging emotions behind these decision-based games.
That said, Rebecca's transition would be a little less rough if you chose not to have Clem blackmail her. Rebecca would simply remark, "I knew you were going to be a problem" (which really was just her venting) which transits to the following morning when her temper had simmered down after that venting.
I doubt it, you think they'd have the time to release Episode 1 then wait and see people's reactions, then change the entire script/animations etc in time for episode 2's release ? No way, if that was the case the entire season would take less than 2 months to be done.
They probably planned to show that her reactions were really exacerbated by her pregnancy, the dire situations they were in and everything else around her which is, you know, normal for pregnant women. They most certainly didn't want us to completely hate her and they want us to care about the baby, talking to Clem about the baby's name, hearing it in through her stomach etc...
Based on what we saw last year in a few Playing Dead's, the episodes themselves and Telltale's responses here on the forums, I think you'd be surprised. They do seem to take public feedback seriously.
I know what you mean. It's like, if we choose to treat Rebecca badly, then it should follow suit that she reacts in the appropriate manner someone who's treated badly would react, instead of reacting in the same exact way as when we choose to be nice to her. That's the kind of flaw in the illusion of choice I was referring to, which I could understand how annoying it could be. But with decision-based games like this, it's really difficult to compute every single decisions and insert variety into every single of them. I guess it's just that we've come to expect a very high standard when it comes to Telltale games that small flaws like this would irk us a little.
Rebecca was definitely the most harsh on Clem but she's pregnant and hormonal and still in fear of Carver. So when a stranger turns up with a bite, she's going to be cautious and not nice. She wants to protect her group. Not to mention animals are a real rarity to see at this point.
By the time Rebecca apologizes however, the bite has been proven to not be a walker bite and the rest of the gang have warmed up to her earning her place within the group. It's also more than possible Clem caught her on a bad day and the situation would have only made things worse. Perhaps her motherly instinct has since kicked in. Perhaps it's just that she trusts her groups judgement.
Cough Clem should be an npc Cough
It was actually really interesting for Telltale to take an NPC from Season 1 and put her in Season 2 as a playable character, saying, "Here, we're gonna let you decide now how this NPC should grow from here on." It's not something that hasn't been done before, but the way it's done here, with you playing first the parent in S1 and now the child growing up in S2, that's really a cool idea there.
"In every single of them."
That's true, also your statement about being extremely critical with telltale due to past glories (which I don't necessarily find to be a negative thing. Glory is eared through bloody battles, and you need to learn from past mistakes in war) is completely true. But this seems like a slightly radical oversight by regular ttg standards. In my honest judgment.
Thanks Mark!
(:
Oh I'm not saying they don't care about what we say, I've even seen a few TTG staff members discussing things here which is really nice.
What I'm saying is, no matter how you look at it there's no way they'd have enough time to release an episode, wait for the player's opinions and act accordingly in the next one, that's unrealistic. I'm saying Rebecca's "becoming nicer" was already set in stone and most certainly already done by the time we got our hands on the 1st Episode, you get what I mean ? Sorry if I didn't properly explain myself.
Rebecca is awsum! I loved her conversation with Clem in Haus Divided. So cute when Clem's listening to the baby kickin.
It's a cool idea. Sadly for me, and a select few others ( I'm most definitely in the minority here), it's extremely... immersion breaking. It's hard to enter s2 with preconceived ideas of what a character does, who they are, how they will act, etc, by direct third person view and then be told "Alright, take the reins." I often find myself taking myself out of the story to think about how Clem would react because I view her as another party, not as an extension of my own person as Lee easily was. I really enjoy the story, but I can't be engrossed by it because I'm constantly in and out of it. It's like pausing the game every 45 seconds, thinking about what you're (or she is, rather) doing and why, and then continuing. I can't view myself as Clem because she is a character with already set traits which by interfering I believe I can choose the wrong option for who I think she is. That's one reason I believe she should be strictly an npc (and the largest/most relevant reason).
Also I feel I must say: don't tell me to simply stop thinking of her as another party and rather an extension of myself. If that were possible I would have done it long ago. (I've actually have people tell me this haha)
On a finale note... Some people view the game from a perspective of still playing as Lee. A guiding hand, who views and judges at a distance. I don't find this play style attractive. It doesn't make sense to me to allow choice when the players entity/reasoning is outside the realm of choice determination. He obviously has impact on her evidenced by "shit" and her mentioning him, but it doesn't go beyond the point of personal conviction.
I hear ya. It's a really big challenge to RP a canon character rather than an original one. The main problem with this, for me, is that there's not a lot of freedom when it comes to deciding the type of character you would wish to play him/her out as. For example, playing Evil Clem just doesn't make sense in canon-wise.
However, I really have to go back to the whole parent-child notion that I was talking about. Even though some of the traits of Clementine were clearly established and unchangeable (compassion and optimism), I think there comes a certain kind of interactivity for you to decide the kind of storyline that's gonna play out from S1 through S2 - that is, in terms of how you want to raise Clementine up beginning with Lee's story and Lee's grooming. It's not so much as trying to get you to play as yourself (which is easily done with an original character like Lee), but trying to get you to play the plotter of the story in both seasons, which I've always found fascinating when it comes to decision-based, story-driven games like this (much like the Mass Effect franchise where you get to decide what kind of person Shepard would be, even though a number of personality traits were clearly established as well, just like Clementine).
When all is said and done, I think that the problems we've discussed about Clem's character growth being kept under restraint, those problems are never going to go away because that's just the way it is with canon characters as opposed to original characters. However, I think this is a good step for Telltale to take in allowing us to play with the canon characters of TWD. In the future, who knows? Maybe it will be Molly. Maybe it will be Christa. I have faith that Telltale's gonna give us a good treat nonetheless.
While it sadly doesn't change the way I feel/view the game (wish it did) I definitely understand your train of thought. It's just something I, on a personal and psychological level, cannot come to terms with. I want to be able to view clementine as a character who's growing and changing without imparting my ideology, interests, and prowess, etc, onto her, and therefore view choosing her as the pc as a bad step for telltale to take in allowing us to puppeteer these pre-dimensioned characters. I also have faith in telltale to give us a treat, one of the best in the business I'm not afraid to go out on a limb and say, I just don't think it will be comparable to the perfect truffle that was S1.
PS: You're now on my list of favorite users
Hah, thanks. It's quite the honor, considering that I'm rarely a 'favorite' among social circles. :P
It seems we have quite similar personalities :b