GUYS I GOT IT!!!
I know who the killer is and why everything that happens is happening.
If you find the head of Faith in episode one, you can say that is was a warning, but was the warning actually for you? We know Faith had to pay The Crooked Man back, and because Crane came often to the Pudding and Pie, he should have known her. The warning was obviously for Crane, so he knows that this is what happens to the one's that don't pay back the Crooked man.
The head was placed there by Tiny Tim, you can see him driving the cab of the Crooked man and he is first in line in episode 1, Tiny Tim probably placed the head there and the next day he came to hte office for "business" but actually he was there to see if they got his "message"
Bluebeard obviously knows what is going on with Crane, if you go to the Tweelde's brothers office first, he burns all the stuff of Crane, you know why? So Crane couldn't sell his own stuff to get money and pay back the Crooked man, if Crane couldn't sell his things so wouldn't have money, he would be killed or being held somewhere, and while Snow and Bigby would be too busy with the case, he could take over Fabletown.
The Killer is probably Bloody Mary, in episode 1 Bigby tells you that something sharp or with magic attached to it killed Faith, Woody's axe is blessed.. and guess who has it now, Mary.
So what do you guys think about what i said above, and what is happing.
BTW: that red haired guy that everyone calls the boy who yelled wolf or something like that, he was probably going to play a BIG part, but because we figured out, his part is shortened, thus they didn't need the voice actor so much.. sooo, i feel bad you guys, we took someone their job because we figured that out. XDD
Comments
Come on guys, i need your reactions!!!!!
My reaction: "Holy Shit! You're a genius!" Seriously though, I never would have thought this. Great Work!
I thought the same about the Crooked Man being the one behind the murders and Bloody Mary doing the killings for him. Either way, your theory is cool.
Yeah, that's as far as I got. I didn't get all the details, though.
I think it's possible that the Crooked Man is the mastermind behind the murders considering some of the characters are connected to him like Crane, Faith, Lily, Nerissa, Georgie, Beauty, Tweedles, Jack (He is working at the Crooked Man's pawn shop) and Bloody Mary of course. Plus, it looks in episode 4, Bigby will fight Bloody Mary, the Crooked Man and his gang of thugs.
I hope episode 4 will not take 4 moths because of this
I think the red haired guy was planned to be the murderer and then someone figured it out and they had to rewrite most of the story so it took 3 months extra then it should had took.
Yeah, i know, the only thing i don't really agree with is the thing with Tiny Tim... I mean, you must've been right, but now not so much. Remember those leaked models for episode 2? People say the episode was delayed because of them and because someone realized who the killer is, so they changed it. I dunno. I mean, i like your theory, good job
Ichabod, this is not love.
Knowing Telltale , you shouldn't struggle too much on guessing what this mystery is. There might (probably will) be a huge plot twist in Episode 5.
Obviously The Crooked Man is greatly involved in it. And so far , Bloody Marry might've been the one who killed both Faith and Lilly ... but this is not about crimes anymore. The whole mystery is not about a murderer , business wars or power , episode 3 made it clear (for me at least). The whole plot is focused on one , and only one thing : The Ribbons , and the spell that keeps their "Lips Sealed".
Ever since episode 1 we came across those ribbons and their magic , and every single girl told us the same thing "This lips are sealed" : In episode 1 (Faith) , in episode 2 (that girl at the strip club) , in episode 3 (Crane trying to use that ancient ring). It all comes down to those Magic Ribbons , their the "central element" of the game.
Tl;dr : It's not about " a Killer " or " a Conflict " , the whole game & plot is centered on The Magic Ribbons , and it won't end until we solve their mystery first.
I don't quite agree with your conclusions, so here are some questions that are raised by what you said.
If the initial message (Faith's head) was for Crane, why leave it on the step for anyone to find? That is, why get everyone to force Bigby and Snow to get involved if the intent was to just scare Crane into submission? Also, Faith was essentially working for the Crooked Man, so why kill an employee and lose income? Why do it twice (with Lily)?
We don't actually know for sure if the Crooked Man's driver is Tiny Tim, so I can't speak to his motives.
As for Blue Beard, he burns a photo (likely the one you can look at if you go to Crane's apartment first, which shows Crane in a very proud moment), a clock and a book. I don't think these things were going to be sold by Crane to pay back the Crooked Man (he already has items from Crane as listed in the Tweedles files), but rather these were personal items Blue Beard destroyed to punish or torture Crane and drive a confession out of him.
The killer is unlikely to be Bloody Mary because she's the Crooked Man's hitwoman and as I mentioned, there's no profitable reason to kill the people who are indebted to you, and I doubt either Faith or Lily sat in front of a mirror and summoned her unwittingly.
omg really ok so when I say the crooked man was responsible for faith's beheading, i get downrates. but this? such anger
I think that maybe Nerissa left Faith's head at the woodlands i have made a theory of my own here:
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/65171/maybe-nerissa-left-faith039s-head-at-the-woodlands
But your theory seems more realistic.
I think "the Butcher" is the killer. His name is fitting.
That's a better theory than the red-haired one. Only time will tell.
I think this theory would be too obvious. The killer is probably somebody who we least expect.
Didn't read this post for obvious reasons...But guys the killer is actually Telltale Games! They are the one's doing this to Bigby and killing all those Fables! Those sick fucks!
I think crime fiction in general has spoiled us too much with the "It's the person who you least expect" twist in almost every movie, game, book etc.
Regardless, I agree with you, somehow having Bloody Mary or The Crooked Man to be behind all of this seems too obvious, and it would ruin the mistery. But the thing is...who is the one who we least expect it?
Bumpkin? Toad? Beauty and Beast? All of those sound ridiculous, and I think the thrills we might have in next episodes will have nothing to do with the "killer's reveal".
Bluebeard would seem like a good candidate but that would be kinda obvious. It would be hilarious if the killer turns out to be Hans, you know, the guy who works for Georgie.
You're making the assumption that it's a he. Could be Bloody Mary too.
Interesting theory. It does not make sense for the Crooked Man to kill Faith or Lily. Even if he does profit from their work, usually chain of command trumps all and the girls work for Georgie. Georgie may be directly under CM, so the girls short changing Georgie would make Georgie a threat to kill. If ag, it cannything Georgie would have ordered the murders for fucking his shit up. And there are 2 people that work for Georgie who he would probably have do it. Vivian or Hans. Vivian is the only woman who does not have to strip, she's the one who carries the business. Remember Snow called Vivian to arrange the "massage", she know when fables are holding out. Hans, probably would do it if Georgie promised to let him strip. Unfortunately we don't know if Faith has serviced Crane or not. And as far as Lily, how often did Lily have to glamour herself as Snow? Especially if his lust for her lasted that long this could not be the first time he has her done it right? I think the CM's business is strictly for Crane. As far as the message, I'm not too clear on it.
Don't forget Tweedles were looking for a photo. Faith stole it from Crane. Why? What was her connection with Ichabod? Did brothers find it?
Dee said few times (ep. 1 and 2) that him and Bigby are on same side. Lied? If not, Crooked Man is just protecting his business and somebody else is the killer.
I don't believe Mary is a killer. No. Woodsman's axe, my theory; Woody left it in Lucky Pawn. He drinks and needed money.
Bluebeard probably tried to get rid of anything that connects him with Crooked Man.
Shrek is love, Shrek is life.
I said that, and it's pretty logical too since she was about to behead bigby lol
Like Vivian, for example? She's occupying a unique position among the characters... directly connected to the Pudding & Pie but not quite the same as the other girls. She was acting somewhat suspiciously this episode, with her insistence that Crane was the killer.
In order for a murder mystery to be satisfying, the murderer absolutely cannot be someone who is only introduced near the end. It has to be someone the audience has been aware of for a while. For it to be surprising it is also likely to be someone we don't expect. Based purely on that, Vivian is now my prime suspect. All this business with the Crooked Man, Bloody Mary and Crane may turn out to be entirely tangential.
Love the OP's hypothesis. Most of it fits perfectly. Can't believe I didn't recognise that axe! I can well believe Bloody Mary killed Donkeyskin, but I believe someone else killed Lily. Allow me to explain.
I believe the photo Faith stole was the photo planted to frame Crane. The Crooked Man/The Tweedles needed to keep Crane in his job to keep earning and taking bribes from Bluebeard in order to pay CM back.
Remember how Lily's body was found in the river, head on doorstep, bloodstains on bed but no blood trail? Lily didn't die in there. That proves Crane's innocence with regard to murder. He has an unhealthy obsession with Snow White, is out to save his own skin and is terrified beyond comprehension. He's been protecting the Tweedles out of fear CM/Bloody Mary will come after him (they're CM's hitmen).
I reckon Beauty was completely clueless. Nothing about her behaviour from meeting her on the front desk to when she reminded Bigby how Snow will feel suggests to me she had prior knowledge of any of it. I'm stunned Beast has any time to drink at the Trip Trap. 3 jobs, for crying out loud.
I don't know who Lily's killer was but I'm willing to bet Nerissa planted the photo, maybe even the blood. The fable world is a mess, driven by money and fear. If Bigby could get on the trail of Crane's misdeeds, she thought, CM would send the Tweedles after him when he legged it and everyone else would get a bit of peace.
That coming-up-in-ep4 scene where we harass the Woodsman again suggests to me Bigby's figured out BM's axe is probably Woody's and that it probably severed the heads of Donkeyskin and Lily.
BM was the lurker in the scene outside Toad's place in ep1 where Bigby and Faith parted ways. Once BM acquired the axe (continuity error with Woody still having the axe in the mirror later), BM then demanded the photo, to be told DS no longer has it. When asked where and "these lips are sealed" came out (in order to protect Nerissa), BM went ballistic, axing Donkeyskin and shoving the goddamn ribbon in her mouth, as a symbolic gesture of frustration. BM or someone else then dumped the head on the Woodlands doorstep in order to scare the shit out of Crane or to alert Bigby anonymously that the murder had happened.
I think it's too simple.
Then again, I shouldn't expect the plot to be overly complicated, it's meant to be fun.
I don't remember any leaked models from episode 2... only episode 3.
I said that Bloody Mary is the killer too, but not on this thread. So I can agree on the 4th point of your list.
I have the feeling, even thou I can't prove anything, that Mary didn't kill them for the crooked man himself. I have the feeling that someone paid him to have mary kill lily and Faith for a reason.
He then hired the Tweedles to go after Bigby, mess his investigations a little up so he couldn't get to crane before him.
Oh, yeah, i was confused... Again...
I doubt that. There's no way they would have chose him to be the murderer for a 5 episode series. Also rewriting the last 4 episodes would not at all take 3 months.
It was obsession and lust. But so it the majority of what is claimed to be this arbitrary thing called love anyway.
I believe that the ribbons, Georgie and the Puddin' and Pie are just ways for powerful people to get more money and become more powerful in general. Right now, everything points towards the Crooked Man being the most powerful. But obviously he wants more power and his motive is greed and to have complete control over Fabletown (and probably the mundy world too after that, now that I think about it).
I think the ribbons and the debts the prostitutes are in are just ways of securing the cash cow for the Crooked Man.
This theory seems legit, but I'm not sure if the killer's Bloody Mary. It would be too cheap and simple to simply put her as the killer.
Well, I hope you're proud of yourself Ichabod. First a prostitute dies because of you and now that Telltale knows you saw through their schemes they'll rewrite the story AGAIN. Now, let's allhave fun waiting until August for episode four.
Nah, I'm just joking, we'll probably wait until October.
"You're a better detective than i though you'd be"
Your theory is very good. But better delete it ASAP. If u guessed rigth they will have to rewrite the story again... xd
MUWHAHAHAH NOW THEY ARE GOING TO REWRITE THE WHOLE STORY AND THE NEXT EPISODE WILL BE NEXT YEAR, THANKS TO ME MUWHAHAHAHA * Ichabod Crane rubs his hands while laughing at the forum people.*
"The butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker..."
That is its own nursery rhyme. Could be that there is more to see from that character.
Part of what makes Telltale so good with these episodic story games, is that they can grab feedback not only from playtests, but from us on the forums as well. They can adjust the story accordingly, bugs and whatnot. They could just make like 3 episodes and release them all at once but then they couldn't really just go back and change a story piece just from complaints, it will only make people more unhappy.
My point is that even if you're theory could be true based on the Ep.4 trailer as well, Telltale could just do more plot twists in the next episode, and some of the scenes which you see in the trailers at the end of an episode never make it in that episode anyway. Personally, I think it's not really that easy to tell which is the killer, and I wouldn't want it to be that easy anyway.
I'm sure the Crooked Man plays a big part in it but I doubt he would bring this much heat on him. That's just how I feel about it anyway, I wish we shouldn't be able to tell for sure at least until the end of episode 5, because if you can tell the killer 3 episodes in, well, what's the point of even playing the other episodes if you can already predict the plot.
It's a solid theory but it's never that easy with Telltale games, there's always a plot twist, and frankly, I like it that way. It's what makes Telltale games so good. From the episode select you can tell what the basic premise for each episode is, though they also change with each episode release. Episode 4 looks to be Bigby going against Bluebeard taking charge of Fabletown and episode 5 looks to be Bigby going all out to get the killer. So yea, it's never that easy.
I also wonder about the ribbons. Why has no one tried to untie one?
Then there is the matter of 'official fabletown' getting involved. What is to stop Snow from going to the 13th floor and asking the Witches/Wizards for help in breaking the spell on the girls. What would they spill if they were not forced into silence?
This could be ultimately a strike against the Crooked Man. Like you pointed out, both dead girls are from the Pudding and Pie. They are cash cows for Georgie and the Crooked Man; thanks to the price of spells and fees, nevermind interest payments. But the 'investor' the Crooked Man would have the most to lose by the business model failing - the manager doesn't have as much skin in the game.
And it would not matter how dire the problem is eventually; if it became known that you would die if you went to see Georgie for help...his applications for employment/help would dry up pretty quickly. No new girls, and existing girls talking...it would shut down the club pretty quickly.
Can see this angle, completely. But Hans is also there, and he is not limited by the ribbons. What if his simple mind is just an act?