I'm not the one who has my head up my ass. I couldn't care at all where you are from, probably an alien.
Your username reflects yourself, if you consider yourself to be Great, then there is specific problem? This is not human, even the greatest will only ever compare in humility to somebody greater, when never considering themselves this title. This being entirely reflected by your ego throughout your comments and your lack of diligent structure.
You started a post which has lead you to your own demise. A post wrought from your own ego which was nothing more then insults, but blathered happilessly away about complete an utter nonsense which was not even of any remote possibility within this game.
However critiquing that in a murder case with two victims. What are the possibilities that there could be within fables, somebody being eaten by another fable, or stewed within a cooking pot, heck the Bigbad wolf, Headless horseman. Or when having serial killers somebody like the Buffalo Bill. We simply do not have this yet information, do we? This is of course a joking assumption, which is called having some fun.
What we do know is Faith is a whore who is a pauper. Blackmail probably got her killed, or she is still alive. Which is something you never even mentioned. We don't know this because the Mirror was in fact pointlessly useless. It can help prevent a death, but either way that death is of no actual significance to this stories progression, as in if that person lives or dies the story will be the same. Hurray for a shattered broken Mirror. It showed nothing of any real consequences, apart from an assumption that Faith may still be alive.
Feel free to continue being the arrogant self centred pompous presumptuous prat you are, who is so stuck up their own shit constantly farting out ceaseless diarrhea.
1. I'm not Spanish. If you're indeed an Englishman, then it's very tragic, to the point it actually hurts my soul. As a member of a nation c… moreradled by such great literates such as Samuel Taylor Coleridge, William Blake, William Shakespeare and many more, you are verbally pissing on your own heritage.
2. My username was made jokingly as combination of Cthulhu from H. P. Lovecrafts short stories and Alexander the Great, if you weren't such an idiot you'd recognize it as a farce which it is.
3. You shouldn't bother posting to me, since I won't reply to any of your posts anymore. Feel free to do so if you want, but it is only fair to notify you that you'd be wasting your time.
Well guys, this is how I see it. There are two possibilities:
1) Lily had been indeed missing for some time (presumably also being dead… more) and then the note to Faith must have been written before. In this case it probably referred to Faith covering for her with Crane (and probably stealing the compromising photo from him back then). It seems unlikely that the note was written later by someone else, since if anyone was supposed to know about Lily's gone missing it would be the other girls from Pudding n' Pie and it's also reasonable to assume that Faith knew Lily's handwriting, so she wouldn't be fooled with this trick. Now, this theory seems to be contradicted by several things. First of all, it is strongly implied (though not certain) that Lily was murdered one night after Faith. Moreover, The Woodsman was expecting Lily on the night before, though obviously their meeting could have been scheduled in advance. Also Lily's notebook does not… [view original content]
Bluebeard may seem brash, violent and even have a sinister past as a serial killer but I doubt he is well known for cutting girls' heads off in particular. He is a classical and dandy villain without a doubt. If there's a crime there's a chance BB has a part in it eventually but not by doing the murdering.
In Episode 2 the game asks you to interview T.J. right? And thereafter you get to ask the mirror to show Lily which is the part before you a… morectually take a look at Lily/Snow's corpse. She was noticeably not thrown in the witching well yet when you enquire to show Lily. Of which its reply was....
Bluebeard managed to escape the Homelands with his riches intact, and continues to be one of the wealthiest Fables in New York. The Fabletown government depends on his generous contributions, and he often uses this influence for his own benefit. As a former serial killer, he claims his days of decapitating his brides are over. But even if he was able to leave his violent ways in the Homelands, that hasn't stopped him from making the occasional trip down Crooked Lane.
---from the Book of Fables---
Story says he is a retired monster. And I truly believe in that Lee..*cough* Bluebeard ... is a reformed man. He's kept a clean record for the past 100 years in Fabletown.... all the way throughout 1986. Yes he burned Crane's stuff, threatened to strangle Bufkin, punch Flycatcher but you gotta admit he is one of the main characters and still part of the investigation team yeah? *cough* Money is power? *cough* ;o}
Ah hahahahah. You've forgot to check all dialogues with Mirror after interviewing TJ in episode 2 Smokes and Mirrors. Keep asking the Mirror. You will get the "Once again These Lips are sealed" trivia.
Key word is 'continues'. How would someone continue to be rich when giving millions of dollars each year. And 'Crooked Lane' why the capital letters, why the talk of getting Fly fired. Who knows if Telltale will say this "The complete ending is in the Fables comics, hope you know what to look for."
Bluebeard managed to escape the Homelands with his riches intact, and continues to be one of the wealthiest Fables in New York. The Fabletow… moren government depends on his generous contributions, and he often uses this influence for his own benefit. As a former serial killer, he claims his days of decapitating his brides are over. But even if he was able to leave his violent ways in the Homelands, that hasn't stopped him from making the occasional trip down Crooked Lane.
---from the Book of Fables---
Story says he is a retired monster. And I truly believe in that Lee..*cough* Bluebeard ... is a reformed man. He's kept a clean record for the past 100 years in Fabletown.... all the way throughout 1986. Yes he burned Crane's stuff, threatened to strangle Bufkin, punch Flycatcher but you gotta admit he is one of the main characters and still part of the investigation team yeah? *cough* Money is power? *cough* ;o}
Great theory! Love it! I wouldn't have come up with it myself, but reading this thread made me think of something I noticed while playing the game. Since we're building a case against Vivian, I want to add this piece of evidence that I don't think has been mentioned so far.
When Bibgy first goes to the Pudding and Pie in Episode 2 you have the chance to ask Vivian if she knew Lily. Her response is "My lips are sealed." Sounds familiar, right? But every other time that this phrase is mentioned in the game, all the characters (the mirror included) say "These lips are sealed".
This discrepancy could mean that Vivian is not actually under the spell of silence! She's just using it as a cover to not have to reveal any more than she wants to.
Admittedly, if she's the mastermind behind this plot, or even just intimately involved in it, you'd think she'd be smart enough to get the wording correct. Maybe she was intimidated by Bigby showing up at the club, though she doesn't seem like a character who is easily fazed. I think it's more likely that, for the purposes of dropping hints about the murderer's true identity, Telltale seized on this opportunity to show us a crack in the armor, so to speak.
Oh nice! I also noticed that Nerissa also says "My lips are sealed" when Crane says "Tell me who killed her!" That further fuels my belief that Nerissa is a forced accomplice.
This reminds me of the story of "The Myrtle Tree". A prince was given a Myrtle tree that soon bore a faerie. She was beautiful and the princes soon became enamored with her. the prince's Prostitutes get jealous that the Prince starts favoring a faerie over them. They devise a plan to kill the faerie. The 7 prostitutes enter the prince's chamber and find the faerie in his bed. They dismember her and smash her bones. Except for one who only takes a strand of golden hair. The prince's servant enters the chamber to water the Myrtle tree and finds the prince's beloved faerie's body. He quickly buries her within the Myrtle tree's soil and water it. Suddenly, the tree began to bring the faerie back to life and she tells the prince of what was done to her. The prostitutes are then burned in the sewers except the one who took the golden hair, she marries the attendant.
Great theory! Love it! I wouldn't have come up with it myself, but reading this thread made me think of something I noticed while playing … morethe game. Since we're building a case against Vivian, I want to add this piece of evidence that I don't think has been mentioned so far.
When Bibgy first goes to the Pudding and Pie in Episode 2 you have the chance to ask Vivian if she knew Lily. Her response is "My lips are sealed." Sounds familiar, right? But every other time that this phrase is mentioned in the game, all the characters (the mirror included) say "These lips are sealed".
This discrepancy could mean that Vivian is not actually under the spell of silence! She's just using it as a cover to not have to reveal any more than she wants to.
Admittedly, if she's the mastermind behind this plot, or even just intimately involved in it, you'd think she'd be smart enough to get the wording correct. Maybe she was intimidated by Bi… [view original content]
Oh nice! I also noticed that Nerissa also says "My lips are sealed" when Crane says "Tell me who killed her!" That further fuels my belief t… morehat Nerissa is a forced accomplice.
This reminds me of the story of "The Myrtle Tree". A prince was given a Myrtle tree that soon bore a faerie. She was beautiful and the princes soon became enamored with her. the prince's Prostitutes get jealous that the Prince starts favoring a faerie over them. They devise a plan to kill the faerie. The 7 prostitutes enter the prince's chamber and find the faerie in his bed. They dismember her and smash her bones. Except for one who only takes a strand of golden hair. The prince's servant enters the chamber to water the Myrtle tree and finds the prince's beloved faerie's body. He quickly buries her within the Myrtle tree's soil and water it. Suddenly, the tree began to bring the faerie back to life and she tells the prince of what was done to her. The prostitutes ar… [view original content]
Ah, great catch! I hope that doesn't blow up my theory ;)
Haven't confirmed but I think that the first time Bigby questions Nerissa she says "These lips are sealed". So it seems strange that she then later say "My lips are sealed", unless you're correct that she is in on it or has some knowledge of what Vivien is up to.
I think you're right that she would have to be a forced accomplice. Why else would she go out of her way to send Bibgy to the Open Arms?
Interesting connection with the Mrytle Tree story. The involvement of the prostitutes definitely fits, as does the dismemberment. This leaves (pun!) me wondering if the Glamour Tree found in Aunty Greeleaf's apartment could be a Myrtle Tree.
Oh nice! I also noticed that Nerissa also says "My lips are sealed" when Crane says "Tell me who killed her!" That further fuels my belief t… morehat Nerissa is a forced accomplice.
This reminds me of the story of "The Myrtle Tree". A prince was given a Myrtle tree that soon bore a faerie. She was beautiful and the princes soon became enamored with her. the prince's Prostitutes get jealous that the Prince starts favoring a faerie over them. They devise a plan to kill the faerie. The 7 prostitutes enter the prince's chamber and find the faerie in his bed. They dismember her and smash her bones. Except for one who only takes a strand of golden hair. The prince's servant enters the chamber to water the Myrtle tree and finds the prince's beloved faerie's body. He quickly buries her within the Myrtle tree's soil and water it. Suddenly, the tree began to bring the faerie back to life and she tells the prince of what was done to her. The prostitutes ar… [view original content]
Bravo...very good....But you forgot that paper bigby found (before he first talk to Narissa),. about a schedule change.....my feeling is still thinking the target at that time was Faith, in room 207 but the killer got Lily instead....I feel it's a blackmail scheme going bad
I don't know why there is an assumption Lilly and Faith were killed a day apart?
Faith's or someones head is discovered. At night time, or early morning, or whatever time it was, who knows when they said night and day, so it was actually early morning? Stating we haven't got much time before the Mundies turn up. They take the head, Faith's? Into the Woodlands Office this flustering Crane to run off, phoning about his massage via Vivan telling her to get the room ready. No real time difference before any events, Crane leaves the Office immediately after his phone call. Lilly who is Snow White's head, turns up early evening. Bringing in the Mundie police to investigate, as any Mundies would have seen it.
Lilly had been missing from previous. Grant was at the Woodlands office after finding Faith's head to notify the Office. Grant was going to get an investigation into Lilly who had been missing for weeks.
Personally I not gonna make big assumptions in theories which drivel on about nonsense. I would like to think the simple explanations are the most obvious, why have direct information, if it is not at all correct? How do events tie into other theories posted. There is a lot of involvement by many parties, but it is putting all the pieces together that solve the crime.
That is not to disagreeing that Vivan is not a prime suspect, she is, specifically there are other suspects, and there is also many others involvement. In response to this thread Vivan had many other ties to the working girls, their management shown via shift the change note, or access to the room 207. Specifically that management. But how does it all fit? Not very well at this point, she was also considered their personal friend, although could easily discredited by any murder. There are many other mitigating factors to be considered. Specifically the lack of Faith's body, also other involvement from others, specifically the search for a photo by the Tweedle's. The photo's recovery was only to be recovered after Faith's head was found. Also the head and body being dumped at both crime scenes. If motivation was in fact only blackmail, then why only implicate later? There are many other facts in play. If upon any misunderstanding and to clarify! I am not naming anybody as the murderer at this time.
To many crackpot theories some generated by myself (cookpots and hannibal skin) are of no particular relevance stimulating such outrageous assumptions they are entirely laughable:
Any emotions in speech are mostly of figurative natures. Most emotions having no particular consequences at all. The various subtle changes of what is said like my and these are sealed. Come on now proves nothing. The only real note was from a very worried Nerissa who clearly had something to tell, when trying to tell, she was worried she would be the next to get murdered. Annoyed she didn't grant any services payed for, now she can worry about refunds haha. Mostly what anybody has to say is connected to many various modes of inquiry, being they are within the larger picture. When they have many responses to justify themselves for, when trying not implicate the blame upon themselves, but they are guilty to some extents of other linked crimes.
Lilly's time of death, is of assumption not verified. Some evidence points to it being in the past. Was she already a squatter in 207 dying of some overdose when grabbing at the poppies, haha. Were her friends entirely misinformed, they had not seen her, prompting their own inquiries? Outrageously did they kill her? There is largely no evidence to suggest when Lilly's murder had actually taken place or any otherwise. It is presumed that because when the body was dumped, it was close to when the head was found. This was around the same time when Crane was due his massage. Requiring services, Faith was out at Woody's appointment, the note made around the time of call from Crane, then the jewelry boxes of Faith were smashed by Vivan who was looking for the glamor tube. Clearly only more assumptions. Her time of death at this time, is entirely circumstantial, when being linked to events.
Glamors have no reason not to do what they have shown. Time delays, yea right. No evidence to suggest they don't do what they say. Imagining they work like voodoo dolls with no expiry date The evidence points at there being more pictures of Snow white also more hair..
If blackmail is the entire motive. Why kill the goose, just to later implicate diverting the blame? Crane's pictures, possibly dropped by the murderer, or these photo's were never in the murderer's possession.
Great analysis! I also started suspecting her since episode 3 when Crane was trying to make Nerissa talk. However there's something I don't understand, she also wears a ribbon which would mean that she is also being controlled. Unless hers isn't enchanted and she just wears it fo fool everyone, it would imply that she is in the same position as Nerissa.
I have a hunch that Vivian is the one "In Sheeps Clothing" I don't believe I've heard her say the spell the same as the other girls. The spell is "These lips are sealed" but she says "My lips are sealed". I have also heard Nerissa say that phrasing once when Crane says "Tell me who killed her, I know you know who did this"
Great analysis! I also started suspecting her since episode 3 when Crane was trying to make Nerissa talk. However there's something I don't … moreunderstand, she also wears a ribbon which would mean that she is also being controlled. Unless hers isn't enchanted and she just wears it fo fool everyone, it would imply that she is in the same position as Nerissa.
That is not all of it for episode 4. Nerissa says she doesn't have any friends left, which is probably the biggest indication that Vivian is a conniving and manipulative liar.
That is not all of it for episode 4. Nerissa says she doesn't have any friends left, which is probably the biggest indication that Vivian is a conniving and manipulative liar.
It's possible, i thought she's there just because she's Georgie's favourite. Before episode 4, i suspected her of being the murderer, now i doubt she did it. Besides, her farewell message to Lily seemed honest.
I have a hunch that Vivian is the one "In Sheeps Clothing" I don't believe I've heard her say the spell the same as the other girls. The spe… morell is "These lips are sealed" but she says "My lips are sealed". I have also heard Nerissa say that phrasing once when Crane says "Tell me who killed her, I know you know who did this"
That is not all of it for episode 4. Nerissa says she doesn't have any friends left, which is probably the biggest indication that Vivian is a conniving and manipulative liar.
It's possible, i thought she's there just because she's Georgie's favourite. Before episode 4, i suspected her of being the murderer, now i doubt she did it. Besides, her farewell message to Lily seemed honest.
Well, before we enter in CM's room, we hear Georgie saying "Stop laughing at me" and TJ said that line in episode 2 so this means that Georgie disposed Lily's body. The killer could be either Bloody Mary or Vivian to me.
I like this theory. I have my own guesses that relates to it and would like to know what you guys think. I'm under the assumption that, like a proper whodunit, at this point, we (and Bigby) ought to have all the information we need to crack the case.
If Vivian's the killer, then I think:
Hans is her accomplice. He may or may not have done the actual killings, but he was tasked to leave the heads at The Woodland. He wears jeans and actually looks physically capable of climbing that fence.
She is purposefully pitting The Crooked Man's mafia against the Fabletown government. The heads were to get Bigby's attention and his investigation is wreaking havoc. The Deputy Mayor in their pocket is on the lam, their glamor witch is shut down and may have turned, they have to move their magic lab and money lending front, the Tweedles are wanted with one possibly dead, their strip club is possibly wrecked and their whoretel is a crime scene.
It was the Crooked Man's crew that tried to dump Lily's body (and probably successfully dumped Faith's) and were trying to get Bigby to back off his investigation simply because they don't want him poking his nose in their business.
Wildest guess: Vivian is sleeping with and is cahoots with Bluebeard. End goal is for her to take over the Crooked Man's operation while he officially takes over The Woodland. Bluebeard will not get caught in the end, obviously.
What leads to Vivian is knowledge of the ribbons, Nerissa's line, and her closeness to Georgie. Bloody Mary leads are the fact that she is a complete psycho, she know both Georgie and Vivian, and Nerissa's look in episode 3.
Well, before we enter in CM's room, we hear Georgie saying "Stop laughing at me" and TJ said that line in episode 2 so this means that Georgie disposed Lily's body. The killer could be either Bloody Mary or Vivian to me.
It's possible, i thought she's there just because she's Georgie's favourite. Before episode 4, i suspected her of being the murderer, now i doubt she did it. Besides, her farewell message to Lily seemed honest.
I have a hunch that Vivian is the one "In Sheeps Clothing" I don't believe I've heard her say the spell the same as the other girls. The spe… morell is "These lips are sealed" but she says "My lips are sealed". I have also heard Nerissa say that phrasing once when Crane says "Tell me who killed her, I know you know who did this"
Came here to take off my imaginary hat to you (I'd take off the real deal, but I don't usually wear them, especially not indoors, so sorry for the substitution). Though we don't exactly know the depth of Vivians involvement in murders, we now know for sure that she is most definitely involved in Crooked Man's schemes. You did a very fine job pointing in her direction when very few here suspicioned her at all. Well done!
By the way, that is exactly what I thought when Nerissa said that she no longer has any friends left, and I must admit that Bigby annoyed the hell out of me with how slow he was on putting the pieces together, I don't like how incompetent they made him to be as a sheriff. I already guessed that we'll get the confirmation of ribbons being magical and responsible for decapitation in this episode, but I hoped that Bigby would come to that conclusion (which many of us already came to in episode 1) by himself. But he didn't, Nerissa had to literally show him the ribbon, not once, but THREE times before he finally got it. And even then he didn't assume that they might be the ones who cut Faith and Lily's head off, but went to take off the one on Nerissa's neck, for heavens sake... He was actually better in chasing little pigs than doing this job and we all know how that story goes for him.
Came here to take off my imaginary hat to you (I'd take off the real deal, but I don't usually wear them, especially not indoors, so sorry f… moreor the substitution). Though we don't exactly know the depth of Vivians involvement in murders, we now know for sure that she is most definitely involved in Crooked Man's schemes. You did a very fine job pointing in her direction when very few here suspicioned her at all. Well done!
By the way, that is exactly what I thought when Nerissa said that she no longer has any friends left, and I must admit that Bigby annoyed the hell out of me with how slow he was on putting the pieces together, I don't like how incompetent they made him to be as a sheriff. I already guessed that we'll get the confirmation of ribbons being magical and responsible for decapitation in this episode, but I hoped that Bigby would come to that conclusion (which many of us already came to in episode 1) by himself. But he didn't, Ner… [view original content]
Interestingly enough, I don't know what fairy tale Vivian is from or if it's been confirmed already, but I'd always heard the Lady of the Lake of Arthurian legend referred to as Vivian. Considering she was a powerful magic user, who learned from Merlin himself, it could fit with the 'Vivian is the one enchanting the ribbons' theory. But who knows. I used to think she was for sure involved, but the recent screenshots posted (the ones all grouped together in one picture) make me think otherwise, since it looks like her ribbon will be removed.
I always thought Vivian was the killer too and now in the trailer she's escaping from Bigby. She wouldn't try to escape if she wasn't hiding something.
Actually, Vivian can't be Lady of the Lake due to the fact that Lady of the Lake already is in Fables comics.
You can read about her here., "In Fables" paragraph.
Interestingly enough, I don't know what fairy tale Vivian is from or if it's been confirmed already, but I'd always heard the Lady of the La… moreke of Arthurian legend referred to as Vivian. Considering she was a powerful magic user, who learned from Merlin himself, it could fit with the 'Vivian is the one enchanting the ribbons' theory. But who knows. I used to think she was for sure involved, but the recent screenshots posted (the ones all grouped together in one picture) make me think otherwise, since it looks like her ribbon will be removed.
Comments
Your username reflects yourself, if you consider yourself to be Great, then there is specific problem? This is not human, even the greatest will only ever compare in humility to somebody greater, when never considering themselves this title. This being entirely reflected by your ego throughout your comments and your lack of diligent structure.
You started a post which has lead you to your own demise. A post wrought from your own ego which was nothing more then insults, but blathered happilessly away about complete an utter nonsense which was not even of any remote possibility within this game.
However critiquing that in a murder case with two victims. What are the possibilities that there could be within fables, somebody being eaten by another fable, or stewed within a cooking pot, heck the Bigbad wolf, Headless horseman. Or when having serial killers somebody like the Buffalo Bill. We simply do not have this yet information, do we? This is of course a joking assumption, which is called having some fun.
What we do know is Faith is a whore who is a pauper. Blackmail probably got her killed, or she is still alive. Which is something you never even mentioned. We don't know this because the Mirror was in fact pointlessly useless. It can help prevent a death, but either way that death is of no actual significance to this stories progression, as in if that person lives or dies the story will be the same. Hurray for a shattered broken Mirror. It showed nothing of any real consequences, apart from an assumption that Faith may still be alive.
Feel free to continue being the arrogant self centred pompous presumptuous prat you are, who is so stuck up their own shit constantly farting out ceaseless diarrhea.
---from the Book of Fables---
Story says he is a retired monster. And I truly believe in that Lee..*cough* Bluebeard ... is a reformed man. He's kept a clean record for the past 100 years in Fabletown.... all the way throughout 1986. Yes he burned Crane's stuff, threatened to strangle Bufkin, punch Flycatcher but you gotta admit he is one of the main characters and still part of the investigation team yeah? *cough* Money is power? *cough* ;o}
When Bibgy first goes to the Pudding and Pie in Episode 2 you have the chance to ask Vivian if she knew Lily. Her response is "My lips are sealed." Sounds familiar, right? But every other time that this phrase is mentioned in the game, all the characters (the mirror included) say "These lips are sealed".
This discrepancy could mean that Vivian is not actually under the spell of silence! She's just using it as a cover to not have to reveal any more than she wants to.
Admittedly, if she's the mastermind behind this plot, or even just intimately involved in it, you'd think she'd be smart enough to get the wording correct. Maybe she was intimidated by Bigby showing up at the club, though she doesn't seem like a character who is easily fazed. I think it's more likely that, for the purposes of dropping hints about the murderer's true identity, Telltale seized on this opportunity to show us a crack in the armor, so to speak.
This reminds me of the story of "The Myrtle Tree". A prince was given a Myrtle tree that soon bore a faerie. She was beautiful and the princes soon became enamored with her. the prince's Prostitutes get jealous that the Prince starts favoring a faerie over them. They devise a plan to kill the faerie. The 7 prostitutes enter the prince's chamber and find the faerie in his bed. They dismember her and smash her bones. Except for one who only takes a strand of golden hair. The prince's servant enters the chamber to water the Myrtle tree and finds the prince's beloved faerie's body. He quickly buries her within the Myrtle tree's soil and water it. Suddenly, the tree began to bring the faerie back to life and she tells the prince of what was done to her. The prostitutes are then burned in the sewers except the one who took the golden hair, she marries the attendant.
Haven't confirmed but I think that the first time Bigby questions Nerissa she says "These lips are sealed". So it seems strange that she then later say "My lips are sealed", unless you're correct that she is in on it or has some knowledge of what Vivien is up to.
I think you're right that she would have to be a forced accomplice. Why else would she go out of her way to send Bibgy to the Open Arms?
Interesting connection with the Mrytle Tree story. The involvement of the prostitutes definitely fits, as does the dismemberment. This leaves (pun!) me wondering if the Glamour Tree found in Aunty Greeleaf's apartment could be a Myrtle Tree.
Faith's or someones head is discovered. At night time, or early morning, or whatever time it was, who knows when they said night and day, so it was actually early morning? Stating we haven't got much time before the Mundies turn up. They take the head, Faith's? Into the Woodlands Office this flustering Crane to run off, phoning about his massage via Vivan telling her to get the room ready. No real time difference before any events, Crane leaves the Office immediately after his phone call. Lilly who is Snow White's head, turns up early evening. Bringing in the Mundie police to investigate, as any Mundies would have seen it.
Lilly had been missing from previous. Grant was at the Woodlands office after finding Faith's head to notify the Office. Grant was going to get an investigation into Lilly who had been missing for weeks.
Personally I not gonna make big assumptions in theories which drivel on about nonsense. I would like to think the simple explanations are the most obvious, why have direct information, if it is not at all correct? How do events tie into other theories posted. There is a lot of involvement by many parties, but it is putting all the pieces together that solve the crime.
That is not to disagreeing that Vivan is not a prime suspect, she is, specifically there are other suspects, and there is also many others involvement. In response to this thread Vivan had many other ties to the working girls, their management shown via shift the change note, or access to the room 207. Specifically that management. But how does it all fit? Not very well at this point, she was also considered their personal friend, although could easily discredited by any murder. There are many other mitigating factors to be considered. Specifically the lack of Faith's body, also other involvement from others, specifically the search for a photo by the Tweedle's. The photo's recovery was only to be recovered after Faith's head was found. Also the head and body being dumped at both crime scenes. If motivation was in fact only blackmail, then why only implicate later? There are many other facts in play. If upon any misunderstanding and to clarify! I am not naming anybody as the murderer at this time.
To many crackpot theories some generated by myself (cookpots and hannibal skin) are of no particular relevance stimulating such outrageous assumptions they are entirely laughable:
Any emotions in speech are mostly of figurative natures. Most emotions having no particular consequences at all. The various subtle changes of what is said like my and these are sealed. Come on now proves nothing. The only real note was from a very worried Nerissa who clearly had something to tell, when trying to tell, she was worried she would be the next to get murdered. Annoyed she didn't grant any services payed for, now she can worry about refunds haha. Mostly what anybody has to say is connected to many various modes of inquiry, being they are within the larger picture. When they have many responses to justify themselves for, when trying not implicate the blame upon themselves, but they are guilty to some extents of other linked crimes.
Lilly's time of death, is of assumption not verified. Some evidence points to it being in the past. Was she already a squatter in 207 dying of some overdose when grabbing at the poppies, haha. Were her friends entirely misinformed, they had not seen her, prompting their own inquiries? Outrageously did they kill her? There is largely no evidence to suggest when Lilly's murder had actually taken place or any otherwise. It is presumed that because when the body was dumped, it was close to when the head was found. This was around the same time when Crane was due his massage. Requiring services, Faith was out at Woody's appointment, the note made around the time of call from Crane, then the jewelry boxes of Faith were smashed by Vivan who was looking for the glamor tube. Clearly only more assumptions. Her time of death at this time, is entirely circumstantial, when being linked to events.
Glamors have no reason not to do what they have shown. Time delays, yea right. No evidence to suggest they don't do what they say. Imagining they work like voodoo dolls with no expiry date The evidence points at there being more pictures of Snow white also more hair..
If blackmail is the entire motive. Why kill the goose, just to later implicate diverting the blame? Crane's pictures, possibly dropped by the murderer, or these photo's were never in the murderer's possession.
I've updated this
Great analysis! I also started suspecting her since episode 3 when Crane was trying to make Nerissa talk. However there's something I don't understand, she also wears a ribbon which would mean that she is also being controlled. Unless hers isn't enchanted and she just wears it fo fool everyone, it would imply that she is in the same position as Nerissa.
I have a hunch that Vivian is the one "In Sheeps Clothing" I don't believe I've heard her say the spell the same as the other girls. The spell is "These lips are sealed" but she says "My lips are sealed". I have also heard Nerissa say that phrasing once when Crane says "Tell me who killed her, I know you know who did this"
That is not all of it for episode 4. Nerissa says she doesn't have any friends left, which is probably the biggest indication that Vivian is a conniving and manipulative liar.
Thanks for the reminder! I thought I finished episode 4 up and it was only a sentence lol
It's possible, i thought she's there just because she's Georgie's favourite. Before episode 4, i suspected her of being the murderer, now i doubt she did it. Besides, her farewell message to Lily seemed honest.
That's possible.
Her message didn't feel like something that should be left on a card at a funeral. It just didn't sit well with me
I agree. "never die from indifference" and Crooky being all about control. Only possible killers are Vivian, Georgie, and Bloody Mary.
Well, before we enter in CM's room, we hear Georgie saying "Stop laughing at me" and TJ said that line in episode 2 so this means that Georgie disposed Lily's body. The killer could be either Bloody Mary or Vivian to me.
I like this theory. I have my own guesses that relates to it and would like to know what you guys think. I'm under the assumption that, like a proper whodunit, at this point, we (and Bigby) ought to have all the information we need to crack the case.
If Vivian's the killer, then I think:
Hans is her accomplice. He may or may not have done the actual killings, but he was tasked to leave the heads at The Woodland. He wears jeans and actually looks physically capable of climbing that fence.
She is purposefully pitting The Crooked Man's mafia against the Fabletown government. The heads were to get Bigby's attention and his investigation is wreaking havoc. The Deputy Mayor in their pocket is on the lam, their glamor witch is shut down and may have turned, they have to move their magic lab and money lending front, the Tweedles are wanted with one possibly dead, their strip club is possibly wrecked and their whoretel is a crime scene.
It was the Crooked Man's crew that tried to dump Lily's body (and probably successfully dumped Faith's) and were trying to get Bigby to back off his investigation simply because they don't want him poking his nose in their business.
Wildest guess: Vivian is sleeping with and is cahoots with Bluebeard. End goal is for her to take over the Crooked Man's operation while he officially takes over The Woodland. Bluebeard will not get caught in the end, obviously.
What leads to Vivian is knowledge of the ribbons, Nerissa's line, and her closeness to Georgie. Bloody Mary leads are the fact that she is a complete psycho, she know both Georgie and Vivian, and Nerissa's look in episode 3.
maybe vivian is Georgie's 2nd in command of the club........which makes her a prime suspect as well
It's mentioned by both Crane and the Book of Fables entry that she is 2nd in command at the Pudding 'n' Pie.
Maybe Vivans ribbon isn't the type that has the spell on it.. it's probably a replica
Came here to take off my imaginary hat to you (I'd take off the real deal, but I don't usually wear them, especially not indoors, so sorry for the substitution). Though we don't exactly know the depth of Vivians involvement in murders, we now know for sure that she is most definitely involved in Crooked Man's schemes. You did a very fine job pointing in her direction when very few here suspicioned her at all. Well done!
By the way, that is exactly what I thought when Nerissa said that she no longer has any friends left, and I must admit that Bigby annoyed the hell out of me with how slow he was on putting the pieces together, I don't like how incompetent they made him to be as a sheriff. I already guessed that we'll get the confirmation of ribbons being magical and responsible for decapitation in this episode, but I hoped that Bigby would come to that conclusion (which many of us already came to in episode 1) by himself. But he didn't, Nerissa had to literally show him the ribbon, not once, but THREE times before he finally got it. And even then he didn't assume that they might be the ones who cut Faith and Lily's head off, but went to take off the one on Nerissa's neck, for heavens sake... He was actually better in chasing little pigs than doing this job and we all know how that story goes for him.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it! I'm glad that I was right about my hunch so far.
Might be plausible but I dunno. That chalkboard in the butcher's makes me think she was up to some heavy black magic.
OMG with the release of the new trailer its almost certain that Vivian is the killer. Woot woot
Interestingly enough, I don't know what fairy tale Vivian is from or if it's been confirmed already, but I'd always heard the Lady of the Lake of Arthurian legend referred to as Vivian. Considering she was a powerful magic user, who learned from Merlin himself, it could fit with the 'Vivian is the one enchanting the ribbons' theory. But who knows. I used to think she was for sure involved, but the recent screenshots posted (the ones all grouped together in one picture) make me think otherwise, since it looks like her ribbon will be removed.
I always thought Vivian was the killer too and now in the trailer she's escaping from Bigby. She wouldn't try to escape if she wasn't hiding something.
Actually, Vivian can't be Lady of the Lake due to the fact that Lady of the Lake already is in Fables comics.
You can read about her here., "In Fables" paragraph.