I understand your side of the dilemma, and I honestly wish I could view it like that. I'm also sure that is how telltale wanted it to work/feel. But I can't see it like that. She had a deeply set moral standing and personality traits, if she held onto those all the while watching people get eaten alive, shot dead, left for dead, slowly turning into the dead, etc, then I have no basis to assume she would change those set traits as soon as Lee died (or afterward).
I prefer to view her character without my direct influence. It feels forced. Her character would be much more powerful and I would have a higher desire to defend her character if it wasn't partially me. The selflessness and defensiveness reached through Lee aren't there when playing as clem because she was the reason for them. But in any case, I'd just have rather them picked another pc than one who was founded and the primary focus of my intentions throughout season one.
You're not the first person I've heard say this (What would Clem do) I never saw it like that, the fact it's been two years and she's been e… moremotionally hardened since then I even felt it perfectly natural to be able to change her personality to my choosing now. I don't see Clementine as the person she was back 2 years ago. I see her as I want to see her when I took over control as her. Do you know what I say actually? And what I think she would think in her head when she has an irrational decision to make? She would be thinking; "What would Lee do?" and because of that, I found it very easy to take over as her this Season. I know it's preference primarily, but I'm pretty sure that's how Telltale themselves wanted us to see her too. Lee thought her the better and worse values of life, and now Clementine is trying to live on in his legacy. And I do still heavily emphasize with her. I know this is a controversial opinion here, but I'm actually more emotionally invested in her character now more than ever thanks to that.
If they made it into a whole full game immediately do you think that people would like all of the choices they release in an episodic format to get feedback from the fans and decide choices for the next episode about the glenn stuff he only criticizes you of you give her the gun (even then he'll understand it was mercy) if you don't give the gun then glenn just wonders whether there's any hope left for the stranger those were meant to be a review over your choices 1 year seriously over exaggerate much it's only been 1 month close to 2 since the last episode (with the next coming in a couple weeks) this isn't like half life or the wolf among us while the walking dead doesn't have to be episodic that's pretty much what ttg is known for the role play you're making it sound as if there's one specific path for clementine that everybody should follow people want to play a different way sassy Clem nice Clem etc and wow more male players than female players not even gonna say what's wrong with that statement like I said I get your point but I can't help but disagree and explain why
One of the biggest troubles for the developers is time. The only way for Telltale to make a game with more branches/outcomes/meaningful choi… moreces is to scrape the episodic formula because nobody likes waiting 1 year for an episode as that will give the player less of an emotional impact than if the player just played through the series in one sitting.
While you can argue that the Walking dead is all about the journey that matters, it is also obviously an obstacle for the developers to overcome. For example, in Season 1, they had to rely on Characters with double sided personalities to have the story make sense. For example, if you give the gun to Irene in Episode 1, then Glenn will criticize the player for letting her give up but on the other hand, if you refused her the gun, Glenn will criticism you for not giving her the gun. There are more examples such as if you save Carley over doug, then the stranger will say "you let a boy get yanked … [view original content]
Comparing how Heavy Rains choices affect you to how The Walking Dead affects you is pretty dumb. Considering Heavy rain had more choice but a really bad story and with The Walking Dead it's vice versa.
Either way I think I'll stick to Walking Dead with writers who know what they're doing. Instead of David Cage, a pretenious writer who romanticzes suicide.
And do you what the annoying thing is? I also understand people's situation on the issue but I simply never really viewed Clem as a moral compass. I know that's a rather controversial thing to say (and that was one of the purposes as her character) but I never felt pressured to do things worried that she would see them or be around and the like. As Lee, I done good things simply because to me, he's always been a good man who would do the right thing. Even before I took control of him. Despite his history with his wife. As a matter of fact, that character flaw made him that much more endearing. To this day even with new characters coming in and Clem's character getting developed, Lee is still my favourite character of the entire series. Simply put, I made Lee do the right thing and save everyone simply because, that's the kind of person he was. Clementine wasn't going to change my mind on the matter. But that could just be because I never done things that would upset her. I done things on my judgement.
And I saw myself influencing Clementine more than anything actually, she always looks up to Lee regardless of his actions. So I guess that's why I don't find it too difficult, the transition from one player character to the other that is. I definitely see Clementine thinking to herself what would Lee do nearly all the time she's having to do a rough choice.
I understand your side of the dilemma, and I honestly wish I could view it like that. I'm also sure that is how telltale wanted it to work/f… moreeel. But I can't see it like that. She had a deeply set moral standing and personality traits, if she held onto those all the while watching people get eaten alive, shot dead, left for dead, slowly turning into the dead, etc, then I have no basis to assume she would change those set traits as soon as Lee died (or afterward).
I prefer to view her character without my direct influence. It feels forced. Her character would be much more powerful and I would have a higher desire to defend her character if it wasn't partially me. The selflessness and defensiveness reached through Lee aren't there when playing as clem because she was the reason for them. But in any case, I'd just have rather them picked another pc than one who was founded and the primary focus of my intentions throughout season one.
I agree on the note he affected her more than she did him, though I did see her as a moral compass of sorts. Which is one reason I don't see her changing because even through all of the things my Lee did in order to protect her, and all the things she saw, she didn't change her outlook through the story. I played him as a fairly pessimistic, do it or die, protect clementine kind kf person. He killed when it had to be done and she always reacted the same way.
But it doesn't matter. I can't change the fact and it's still an enjoyable story that'll probably be in my top favorites, just personally it won't be as gripping and it won't drawn me into the world quite as much.
And do you what the annoying thing is? I also understand people's situation on the issue but I simply never really viewed Clem as a moral co… morempass. I know that's a rather controversial thing to say (and that was one of the purposes as her character) but I never felt pressured to do things worried that she would see them or be around and the like. As Lee, I done good things simply because to me, he's always been a good man who would do the right thing. Even before I took control of him. Despite his history with his wife. As a matter of fact, that character flaw made him that much more endearing. To this day even with new characters coming in and Clem's character getting developed, Lee is still my favourite character of the entire series. Simply put, I made Lee do the right thing and save everyone simply because, that's the kind of person he was. Clementine wasn't going to change my mind on the matter. But that could just be because I never done… [view original content]
It means that they clearly were not expecting to, at the very least, have her be the protagonist of season 2. They wouldn't have said that if they just flat out disprove you next season.
I don't really understand how you get that for that comment, but fine. I'm pretty sure I don't need to spell it out for you, but writers or not the game itself is the prime evidence that they were intending on carrying on with her as the lead. Lee's final comments saying that she's going to see terrible things but it's ok just made it obvious in my eyes.
It means that they clearly were not expecting to, at the very least, have her be the protagonist of season 2. They wouldn't have said that if they just flat out disprove you next season.
Yes, like Thegood said before, it does have it's advantages, but I don't think it will be worth it.
Also of course Clementine after Lee's death could turn into some kind of "badass" but imo that would ruin Clementine's personality. Can happen doesn't mean people want to see it happen.
Also as for the Glenn part, I swore it happened to be but it might've been a "glitch", but even then it shows that time and budget constraints is Telltale's biggest problem as they even considered that.
Also season 2 episode 1 was release in mid december 2013 and episode 2 was release in march. That's almost a 4 month period and alot longer than the average episode just because the strong branched a LITTLE, which is one of the main complaints for this game. Given the space between the episodes, it gives time to figure out telltale's little magic trick.
If they made it into a whole full game immediately do you think that people would like all of the choices they release in an episodic format… more to get feedback from the fans and decide choices for the next episode about the glenn stuff he only criticizes you of you give her the gun (even then he'll understand it was mercy) if you don't give the gun then glenn just wonders whether there's any hope left for the stranger those were meant to be a review over your choices 1 year seriously over exaggerate much it's only been 1 month close to 2 since the last episode (with the next coming in a couple weeks) this isn't like half life or the wolf among us while the walking dead doesn't have to be episodic that's pretty much what ttg is known for the role play you're making it sound as if there's one specific path for clementine that everybody should follow people want to play a different way sassy Clem nice Clem etc and wow more male players than female … [view original content]
Two points "can happen doesn't mean people don't want to see it happen" that's why like I said its a CHOICE to turn her into that what's hard to get about that a CHOICE
And counting off holidays it was only 2 months for telltale to release the episodes
And explain more about the glenn part how is that a "glitch"
Yes, like Thegood said before, it does have it's advantages, but I don't think it will be worth it.
Also of course Clementine after Lee's… more death could turn into some kind of "badass" but imo that would ruin Clementine's personality. Can happen doesn't mean people want to see it happen.
Also as for the Glenn part, I swore it happened to be but it might've been a "glitch", but even then it shows that time and budget constraints is Telltale's biggest problem as they even considered that.
Also season 2 episode 1 was release in mid december 2013 and episode 2 was release in march. That's almost a 4 month period and alot longer than the average episode just because the strong branched a LITTLE, which is one of the main complaints for this game. Given the space between the episodes, it gives time to figure out telltale's little magic trick.
Clementine didn't have to be the playable character for us to care about season 2. She just had to be in it. I believe making her the playable character was the worst thing telltale could have done and here's why. All of the NPCs look to her for answers because she is us. Where this works for Lee, a 30 something year old former professor. Immersion is completely broken when the adults send a little 11 year old to search a building for supplies, Join them as back up to clear a path, by taking out zombies so the rest of the adults can follow safely or when they rely on her to solve puzzles and give advice on what to do like she's a marriage councillor.
From experience I can say that I worry about Clem's safety far less because she is under my control. I find my self worrying far more about NPCs like Sarah because she can die at any time or her survival could be determined by the choices I make as the player unIike Clem who will survive until the end of the the game as Lee had to for the story to be complete in season 1.
Playing twd as Clementine can be likened to the scene in butterfly effect when Ashton Kutcher's character, Evan quantum leaps back into his 8 year old self and confronts his friend's pedophile father. We don't fear for the character's safety in thay scene because it is the adult Evan really, so we know he is in control of the situation as we smile watching him scare the shit out of the guy by speaking as an adult with terminology that only an adult could understand. I feel as relaxed, knowing where Clem is at all times and what she is doing, since she is me, as I felt watching the scene I mentioned from The butterfly effect.
When you think back to the around every corner episode from season 1 when you are looking for Clem and panicking until you find her, it's moments like that which are missing in season 2 and moments like that that made season 1 so impacting, emotional and powerful.
I would have preferred to watch out for Clem than to be her and have her watch out for a group of adults.
Comments
I understand your side of the dilemma, and I honestly wish I could view it like that. I'm also sure that is how telltale wanted it to work/feel. But I can't see it like that. She had a deeply set moral standing and personality traits, if she held onto those all the while watching people get eaten alive, shot dead, left for dead, slowly turning into the dead, etc, then I have no basis to assume she would change those set traits as soon as Lee died (or afterward).
I prefer to view her character without my direct influence. It feels forced. Her character would be much more powerful and I would have a higher desire to defend her character if it wasn't partially me. The selflessness and defensiveness reached through Lee aren't there when playing as clem because she was the reason for them. But in any case, I'd just have rather them picked another pc than one who was founded and the primary focus of my intentions throughout season one.
If they made it into a whole full game immediately do you think that people would like all of the choices they release in an episodic format to get feedback from the fans and decide choices for the next episode about the glenn stuff he only criticizes you of you give her the gun (even then he'll understand it was mercy) if you don't give the gun then glenn just wonders whether there's any hope left for the stranger those were meant to be a review over your choices 1 year seriously over exaggerate much it's only been 1 month close to 2 since the last episode (with the next coming in a couple weeks) this isn't like half life or the wolf among us while the walking dead doesn't have to be episodic that's pretty much what ttg is known for the role play you're making it sound as if there's one specific path for clementine that everybody should follow people want to play a different way sassy Clem nice Clem etc and wow more male players than female players not even gonna say what's wrong with that statement like I said I get your point but I can't help but disagree and explain why
Comparing how Heavy Rains choices affect you to how The Walking Dead affects you is pretty dumb. Considering Heavy rain had more choice but a really bad story and with The Walking Dead it's vice versa.
Either way I think I'll stick to Walking Dead with writers who know what they're doing. Instead of David Cage, a pretenious writer who romanticzes suicide.
And do you what the annoying thing is? I also understand people's situation on the issue but I simply never really viewed Clem as a moral compass. I know that's a rather controversial thing to say (and that was one of the purposes as her character) but I never felt pressured to do things worried that she would see them or be around and the like. As Lee, I done good things simply because to me, he's always been a good man who would do the right thing. Even before I took control of him. Despite his history with his wife. As a matter of fact, that character flaw made him that much more endearing. To this day even with new characters coming in and Clem's character getting developed, Lee is still my favourite character of the entire series. Simply put, I made Lee do the right thing and save everyone simply because, that's the kind of person he was. Clementine wasn't going to change my mind on the matter. But that could just be because I never done things that would upset her. I done things on my judgement.
And I saw myself influencing Clementine more than anything actually, she always looks up to Lee regardless of his actions. So I guess that's why I don't find it too difficult, the transition from one player character to the other that is. I definitely see Clementine thinking to herself what would Lee do nearly all the time she's having to do a rough choice.
I agree on the note he affected her more than she did him, though I did see her as a moral compass of sorts. Which is one reason I don't see her changing because even through all of the things my Lee did in order to protect her, and all the things she saw, she didn't change her outlook through the story. I played him as a fairly pessimistic, do it or die, protect clementine kind kf person. He killed when it had to be done and she always reacted the same way.
But it doesn't matter. I can't change the fact and it's still an enjoyable story that'll probably be in my top favorites, just personally it won't be as gripping and it won't drawn me into the world quite as much.
It means that they clearly were not expecting to, at the very least, have her be the protagonist of season 2. They wouldn't have said that if they just flat out disprove you next season.
I don't really understand how you get that for that comment, but fine. I'm pretty sure I don't need to spell it out for you, but writers or not the game itself is the prime evidence that they were intending on carrying on with her as the lead. Lee's final comments saying that she's going to see terrible things but it's ok just made it obvious in my eyes.
Yes, like Thegood said before, it does have it's advantages, but I don't think it will be worth it.
Also of course Clementine after Lee's death could turn into some kind of "badass" but imo that would ruin Clementine's personality. Can happen doesn't mean people want to see it happen.
Also as for the Glenn part, I swore it happened to be but it might've been a "glitch", but even then it shows that time and budget constraints is Telltale's biggest problem as they even considered that.
Also season 2 episode 1 was release in mid december 2013 and episode 2 was release in march. That's almost a 4 month period and alot longer than the average episode just because the strong branched a LITTLE, which is one of the main complaints for this game. Given the space between the episodes, it gives time to figure out telltale's little magic trick.
Two points "can happen doesn't mean people don't want to see it happen" that's why like I said its a CHOICE to turn her into that what's hard to get about that a CHOICE
And counting off holidays it was only 2 months for telltale to release the episodes
And explain more about the glenn part how is that a "glitch"
From experience I can say that I worry about Clem's safety far less because she is under my control. I find my self worrying far more about NPCs like Sarah because she can die at any time or her survival could be determined by the choices I make as the player unIike Clem who will survive until the end of the the game as Lee had to for the story to be complete in season 1.
Playing twd as Clementine can be likened to the scene in butterfly effect when Ashton Kutcher's character, Evan quantum leaps back into his 8 year old self and confronts his friend's pedophile father. We don't fear for the character's safety in thay scene because it is the adult Evan really, so we know he is in control of the situation as we smile watching him scare the shit out of the guy by speaking as an adult with terminology that only an adult could understand. I feel as relaxed, knowing where Clem is at all times and what she is doing, since she is me, as I felt watching the scene I mentioned from The butterfly effect.
When you think back to the around every corner episode from season 1 when you are looking for Clem and panicking until you find her, it's moments like that which are missing in season 2 and moments like that that made season 1 so impacting, emotional and powerful.
I would have preferred to watch out for Clem than to be her and have her watch out for a group of adults.