Is being bad good?

In the walking dead, it seems that there is a theme. Being 'bad' benefits you very greatly, while being the good guy might make you feel good but makes things more difficult for you.

In season 2, Clementine, the former moral compass, gets choices to be bad or good....only being bad seems to be the good choice, sometimes. For instance, if you steal the watch, you're rewarded with connecting to Nick more. If you ask Rebecca 'who's baby is it?' you actually learn that she knows for sure that it's Carver's in episode 2. It seems like being bad as Clementine sometimes does more good than bad. Am I the only one that finds that odd?

Comments

  • No. Not in season 1 at least. Only in season 2, and only half of the time.
  • edited May 2014
    I don't think those examples necessarily point to "bad=good and good=suck". Maybe the Nick one, but the Rebecca one just seems like extra info. Not necessarily "good", just interesting.

    I guess if we're talking strictly from a story development perspective, maybe, but that's more because being bad tends to lead to some kind of conflict, and conflict tends to equal a better or more memorable story. For instance, even though it means Lee looks like an asshole, I love picking the threatening option when dealing with Vernon and the others because the entire mood changes and becomes a little more engrossing to me than if I had just played a nice guy and calmed everything down. Another example is picking the option to tell Christa at the start of the episode that they should just keep going despite Omid's pain, leading to the rather tense and interesting argument between Kenny and Christa that sets up a lot more conflict between the two.

    Again, not necessarily "good", just different.
  • That's what I said. Did you even read? D:
    Harpadarpa posted: »

    No. Not in season 1 at least. Only in season 2, and only half of the time.

  • edited May 2014
    Yes I did. And you made a very blanket statement.

    "In the walking dead, it seems that there is a theme. Being "bad" benefits you very greatly,"

    This would be fine if you mentioned later that it isn't in season 1 at all. But you don't. So I was bringing that up, and then saying the only times that I think being bad is good. They just happen to coincide with yours.

    That's what I said. Did you even read? D:

  • Well, in the episode 2, you could get 2 people killed by being bad or not caring. Sometimes yes, being bad and cruel benefits the character. I agree with you, but just not all the time. It really depends on the situation Clem's dealing with. but then again, 'most' of the times being good is equal or better in terms of benefits.
  • Threatening Rebecca leads to her opening up to you, while trying to be nice to her leads to her keeping a secret from you.

    Those examples from season 1 don't actually provide 'good' results. Interesting results, yes, but not good. I'm talking about how in season 2 sometimes choices that are blatantly wrong to do end up giving positive results, like you did something good when you really didn't. There haven't been many of those choices yet, but I think they're very interesting.
    damkylan posted: »

    I don't think those examples necessarily point to "bad=good and good=suck". Maybe the Nick one, but the Rebecca one just seems like extra in

  • edited May 2014
    My apologies then.

    Well, there are plenty of times in season 1 where it shows being bad is beneficial. Just not bad choices that pretend they were good choices. For instance, leaving the girl to die to the zombies at the beginning of episode 3 in season 1. It's obviously morally wrong, but you get a lot more time to get all the supplies out of the house. But in season 2 there's things like taking the watch. You rob someone and get to become closer friends with the person you robbed because of it. xD
    Harpadarpa posted: »

    Yes I did. And you made a very blanket statement. "In the walking dead, it seems that there is a theme. Being "bad" benefits you very g

  • Most of the time, being bad in choices where you can be bad or good actually have being bad being more beneficial, but being good being morally right. But in season 2 there's a few choices that seem like good guy choices later even though when you make the choices you're being bad. Like the watch. You rob a guy because you wanted the shiny watch I guess and you become bffs with him because of it, and if you don't steal his watch, you get to feel like shit for not being a thief. That's just so weird.
    Veboy posted: »

    Well, in the episode 2, you could get 2 people killed by being bad or not caring. Sometimes yes, being bad and cruel benefits the character.

  • Oh yeah, that one thing. Every other bad thing you can do either hurts your relationships with characters, or does nothing.

    My apologies then. Well, there are plenty of times in season 1 where it shows being bad is beneficial. Just not bad choices that prete

  • Maybe, but the way I see it is, Rebecca has become friendlier and gentler with you at that point no matter what you pick, and the only thing you lose by picking the "good" option is a little extra info that we could already glean from previous dialogue. Plus, if it only happens because you brought it up before, then it's not so much "opening up" from a character standpoint as much as it is bringing up what Clementine has already figured out.

    I do understand what you mean now, though, especially as it pertains to the Nick scenario. But as was said, those choices are still few. We'll see if there are any more.

    Threatening Rebecca leads to her opening up to you, while trying to be nice to her leads to her keeping a secret from you. Those exampl

  • Well, blackmailing or guilt tripping Alvin gets you the amazing Juice Box, but I think you can also just beg to him and get it. There's the watch situation. If you threaten Rebecca about the baby, she tells you in episode 2 that she KNOWS it's not Alvins and you get a closer bond with her. Those are just a few that I can think of, there might be more. I like those choices, but I'm confused why they exist. They aren't good things pls Telltale why must I be a dick to have good relationships? D:
    Harpadarpa posted: »

    Oh yeah, that one thing. Every other bad thing you can do either hurts your relationships with characters, or does nothing.

  • edited May 2014
    Again, I meant in Season 1. Plus, I didn't see not blackmailing Alvin as guilt tripping him. I genuinely needed help.

    Well, blackmailing or guilt tripping Alvin gets you the amazing Juice Box, but I think you can also just beg to him and get it. There's the

  • edited May 2014
    She lightens up around Clementine no matter what, yes, but she keeps the secret from Clementine if you don't threaten her, thus not opening up as much to her. There's no way to tell for sure that it's Carver's baby unless you get that dialogue where Rebecca confirms it is. All that is told to you otherwise is that Rebecca doesn't know who's it is and both Alvin and Carver think it's theirs.

    If you don't ask who's baby it is, Rebecca later says she is worried it's not Alvin's. If you do ask, then she says she knows it's not Alvin's. So it's brought up by her anyways, so it is indeed opening up that she chooses to tell you more. She could have just as easily said she doesn't know regardless of whether or not Clementine asks her who's baby it is.

    Yes, there aren't very many of them, but I do wonder if there will be more.
    damkylan posted: »

    Maybe, but the way I see it is, Rebecca has become friendlier and gentler with you at that point no matter what you pick, and the only thing

  • Yeah, but Clementine CAN guilt trip him if I recall correctly. Though there are options to genuinely beg too.
    Harpadarpa posted: »

    Again, I meant in Season 1. Plus, I didn't see not blackmailing Alvin as guilt tripping him. I genuinely needed help.

  • She can guilt trip him outside the cabin. Anyways, what about in Season 1? Larry doesn't count because he dies no matter what.

    Yeah, but Clementine CAN guilt trip him if I recall correctly. Though there are options to genuinely beg too.

  • Quote from Lee: "Being good is good....despite the circumstances." (Lee to Clementine in the drug store.)
  • This is a case of game imitating reality.
  • There's no choices that turn from bad choices into good choices completely in season one that I know of. But there are quite a lot of beneficial choices that are wrong to choose, from a moral stantpoint.

    I'll list some of the more important ones. Trying to think of all of them would probably take quite a while.

    Leaving the girl to die to the zombies at the beginning of episode 103 gives you more time to collect all of the supplies, where if you kill her to put her out of her misery sooner you get much less time and it is actually very difficult to get all of the supplies.

    Stealing from the stranger comes back to bite you in the ass, but there was seriously no reason to expect that would happen from a realistic standpoint, and everyone else steals from him anyways, so stealing from the campman is a good choice(if you do, Clementine gets a hoodie for when it gets cold, so it does benefit her more).

    Siding with Larry in episode 1 is actually right, from a logical standpoint, but wrong from a moral standpoint. And by that I mean saying "If he's bitten then we'll do what you say", not "Oh shit we have to throw him out lol fuck you Kenny your kid must be bitten".

    Killing Andy and Danny is actually a good example of a bad choice that turns good. I guess I actually lied, I did think of one. Because if you leave them alive it's actually a worse punishment, they both want you to kill them and Andy even breaks down and sounds like he starts crying if you leave him alive, they also both presumably die to zombies if you leave them alive, which is a worse fate than the instant death brought to them by Lee. So, while it might seem like killing them is a bad choice at first, one could argue it's actually a good choice.
    Harpadarpa posted: »

    She can guilt trip him outside the cabin. Anyways, what about in Season 1? Larry doesn't count because he dies no matter what.

  • That's a good point....good.

    Is good the new soon? d:

    Quote from Lee: "Being good is good....despite the circumstances." (Lee to Clementine in the drug store.)

  • I guess so.

    This is a case of game imitating reality.

  • edited May 2014
    I seem to remember that I didn't threaten her in my playthrough and her exact words in that conversation were "It's not his." as if to tell you it because you didn't know. o: Where as if you did threaten her she then says, "I don't know what I'm gonna do if he finds out its not his." because she knows that you know due to you threatening her. So basically it means you (clem) knows either way, but one is just sooner than the other.

    She lightens up around Clementine no matter what, yes, but she keeps the secret from Clementine if you don't threaten her, thus not opening

  • I've played through it my self, and I recall after not threatening her, her saying "What if it's not his? If he finds out, he'll kill me." Whereas in an 'evil' choices playthrough of season 2 that I just watched a little bit ago, after threatening Rebecca, she says "It's not his. If he finds out he'll kill me." Of course, I could be wrong, but either way, I'm nearly positive there is some difference in the speech that is more revealing.
    Blooey posted: »

    I seem to remember that I didn't threaten her in my playthrough and her exact words in that conversation were "It's not his." as if to tell

  • It only works out sometimes. Besides, I'd rather be good then bad, it just so happens that every now and then some perks come up from being bad, just like being good.
  • Actually, most of the time, being good is for the sole purpose of being good and you have to sacrifice benefits that would be gained from being bad. It's to get the point across that in the apocalypse, it's hard to be good. Which is also why most characters are douchebags and any perfectly nice kind characters are killed off nearly immediately.

    It only works out sometimes. Besides, I'd rather be good then bad, it just so happens that every now and then some perks come up from being bad, just like being good.

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