Yes, but choosing whether to watch Carver's death er not is more of a moral dilemma, while Sarita's situation is more about the question if she'll live or not when you chop her arm of. I can see what you're saying but the situations are in my opinion not really the same. But yes it is indeed interesting to see that you'll witness some gruesome events regardless of your choices.
Get out of my head! :O But seriously - it's really interesting that in my playthrough Clementine left with Sarita because she doesn't want t… moreo witness it and later she just chopped off Sarita's hand. She didn't want to witness Carver's death and enjoying it but later on she made a tough but neccesary decision.
Get out of my head! :O But seriously - it's really interesting that in my playthrough Clementine left with Sarita because she doesn't want t… moreo witness it and later she just chopped off Sarita's hand. She didn't want to witness Carver's death and enjoying it but later on she made a tough but neccesary decision.
I'm not saying it's the same. I'm just saying that Clementine is tough enough already to make tough decisions and she doesn't have to enjoy it. She tried to save Sarita's life and it's a good thing. Doesn't compare to Carver's death situation, it's true. I'm just saying that Clementine is mature enough and tough enough to make hard but neccesary decisions and she doesn't need to prove anything to anyone - especially not to Carver.
Yes, but choosing whether to watch Carver's death er not is more of a moral dilemma, while Sarita's situation is more about the question if … moreshe'll live or not when you chop her arm of. I can see what you're saying but the situations are in my opinion not really the same. But yes it is indeed interesting to see that you'll witness some gruesome events regardless of your choices.
Oh please, she's seen so much shit by now. This is just another drip in the pan for her. If she was going to develop "mental problems," she would have already.
While the player makes the decision for Clem, when you do it, it's because Clem wanted to stay, not *ONLY* because you did. This is clear with just about every decision in the game - that's how it's written. However, uniquely, when Clem chooses to leave, it's partly due to pressure from the adults and not just because she doesn't want to see it.
Season 1 was about "protecting" Clem from bad things, Season 2 isn't. We're playing as Clem. It's no ones job to "protect" her now, considering she can handle shit better than most of the adults around her, who are ironically still trying to shield her like she's a baby.
Nothing bad is going to happen to Clem. If she's screwed up by this, then TT are basically saying "That choice was bad and wrong." There's many ways you can look at this: staying for closure or risk removal, and leaving to be the bigger person or lack of desire to witness such unnecessary brutality. Both paths are valid.
It depends on the point of view. I'm always trying to make personal decision's. I'll put it this way. I'm trying to put myself as a 11 years… more old child in this situation and what I would want to do. If I was there I wouldn't want to watch something like this. Even if I watched many horrible things. Either way if I was there I wouldn't stay.
I am glad someone sees eye to eye with me on this. It has nothing to do with clems humanity but rather about adapting to the new world and its ways. Teaching someone to handle gun in twd is as essential as math is our everyday life.
I'm not saying she needs to be a murdered and kill everyone she sees, but at one point she might have to kill someone that does something ho… morerribly bad but she doesn't want to kill them. But in order for her to live or save many others, she might have to.
So I want her to be ready for that.
Kind of like carol in the show. Lizzie was loosing it, Carol didn't want to kill Lizzie, but Carol knew that Lizzie would hurt others, so Carol had the strength to do it. potentially saving her, Tyrees, and the baby.
What if carol didn't have the strength to do that? What if she never put her husband down or saw her daughter die, that's were she got the strength from,. That's were she got the knowledge of knowing what HAS to be done.
You're right, I too think that Clementine is mature enough, I just thought that your comment was interesting, because in my opinion they are both gruesome scenes, but the principles behind it were (in my opinion) different, just wanted to say that :)
I am however curious about how Clementine will hold up in the future, I agree with that she's tough, but I'm not sure if she can stay that way. In s1 there was Lee to give her hope and support. But who is gonna support her in s2? I have the feeling that she'll eventually break down because of emotional pressure.
I'm not saying it's the same. I'm just saying that Clementine is tough enough already to make tough decisions and she doesn't have to enjoy … moreit. She tried to save Sarita's life and it's a good thing. Doesn't compare to Carver's death situation, it's true. I'm just saying that Clementine is mature enough and tough enough to make hard but neccesary decisions and she doesn't need to prove anything to anyone - especially not to Carver.
Like I said - point of view. :) For me it was kind of showing that Clementine doesn't need to prove anything. Also by staying she could show Carver that she's is in some way like him as he said that a lot of times. That's my point of view so I decided as Clementine to leave.
Nothing bad is going to happen to Clem. If she's screwed up by this, then TT are basically saying "That choice was bad and wrong." There's m… moreany ways you can look at this: staying for closure or risk removal, and leaving to be the bigger person or lack of desire to witness such unnecessary brutality. Both paths are valid.
I agree that Clementine isn't the same little girl from the first season however, she is still different from Carver. I felt that if she stayed she'd be giving Carver exactly what he wanted. Clem can be brutal when she needs to be but Lee even taught her that holding on to your humanity is so important; I don't think she would want to forget that lesson so easily. I was actually shocked at how many players stayed to watch. I retconned out of curiosity but was glad that in my main storyline Clem left. She's seen more than enough and done more than enough to be a survivor, so I didn't believe having her watch that scene was necessary.
Don't forget about guilt. it's confirmed that Clementine feels guilty because of what happened to Lee or Omid. I'm too thinking that she could eventually break down. Maybe even she could start crying. Like I said she is mature enough now for some things but we can't forget that in some way she's still just a child. Child who has been robbed of her innocent and childhood but still she is a kid. That's first. Second - she has conscience like almost every human so it's normal that her emotions can eventually take control over her. I'm talking about emotions like grief, guilt, nostalgic, anger, etc.
You're right, I too think that Clementine is mature enough, I just thought that your comment was interesting, because in my opinion they are… more both gruesome scenes, but the principles behind it were (in my opinion) different, just wanted to say that :)
I am however curious about how Clementine will hold up in the future, I agree with that she's tough, but I'm not sure if she can stay that way. In s1 there was Lee to give her hope and support. But who is gonna support her in s2? I have the feeling that she'll eventually break down because of emotional pressure.
I don't think that makes her "like him". Carver was a hateful, spiteful tyrannical sociopath. I believe Clem is still a good person, no matter what. I just couldn't take the risk of Carver somehow escaping.
Like I said - point of view. :) For me it was kind of showing that Clementine doesn't need to prove anything. Also by staying she could show… more Carver that she's is in some way like him as he said that a lot of times. That's my point of view so I decided as Clementine to leave.
ever watch 3 guys and a hammer? ya i walked out and let kenny do his thing
one point i wanted to stay but once carver tried talking to me saying that stuff like "see? you and me clem are alike i know you want to watch this." I knew i made the right choice. My Clem is stronger than that coward carver
Like I said again - point of view! For me it's how it is. Carver couldn't escape because Kenny and Rebecca were with him and he was shot in both legs so he couldn't run too.
I don't think that makes her "like him". Carver was a hateful, spiteful tyrannical sociopath. I believe Clem is still a good person, no matter what. I just couldn't take the risk of Carver somehow escaping.
Like I said again - point of view! For me it's how it is. Carver couldn't escape because Kenny and Rebecca were with him and he was shot in both legs so he couldn't run too.
If TTG will do this correctly, they could create a VERY emotional scene. Seeing Clementine cry and remembering old loved ones could possibly become the saddest scene of s2. This whole season she acted kinda tough, but like you said, she's just a child. It's sometimes hard for me to believe that she's 11 because of her maturity. I think/hope TTG will use this to their advantage, with a scene like this we will all remember that she's just kid, she's not invincible. Episode 4 highly suggest (to me) an emotional breakdown, some say that it's warpaint. I hope not to be honest, because it could be so much more interesting if Clem would break. It sounds harsh, and yes, seeing Clem being sad makes me sad, but it could be a fantastic episode IMO.
Don't forget about guilt. it's confirmed that Clementine feels guilty because of what happened to Lee or Omid. I'm too thinking that she cou… moreld eventually break down. Maybe even she could start crying. Like I said she is mature enough now for some things but we can't forget that in some way she's still just a child. Child who has been robbed of her innocent and childhood but still she is a kid. That's first. Second - she has conscience like almost every human so it's normal that her emotions can eventually take control over her. I'm talking about emotions like grief, guilt, nostalgic, anger, etc.
She isn't always tough one, you know? There are some scenes which are showing us that some things are still difficult for her but she understands that she needs to do this. For example remember dog scene and the one after that? If you kill a dog then Clementine looks like it's difficult for her. She doesn't really want to kill a dog but she doesn't want him to suffer. Scene after that - she's walking through the forest and then she just starts crying. Either way I hope that TTG will put more scenes like this which will make us not forget that Clementine is still a child and a person with feelings.
If TTG will do this correctly, they could create a VERY emotional scene. Seeing Clementine cry and remembering old loved ones could possibly… more become the saddest scene of s2. This whole season she acted kinda tough, but like you said, she's just a child. It's sometimes hard for me to believe that she's 11 because of her maturity. I think/hope TTG will use this to their advantage, with a scene like this we will all remember that she's just kid, she's not invincible. Episode 4 highly suggest (to me) an emotional breakdown, some say that it's warpaint. I hope not to be honest, because it could be so much more interesting if Clem would break. It sounds harsh, and yes, seeing Clem being sad makes me sad, but it could be a fantastic episode IMO.
Yes, he did. I'm not saying that he doesn't deserved to die. You've waited to see him dead, I get it. It's your decision. I wanted him dead too but it was my decision to left with others and leave Kenny and Rebecca alone with Carver.
Agreed. That's why I'm not really a fan of ''badass Clem'',I'd rather see ''nice Clem who cares about other people'', she can be sassy sometimes, of course, but I want to see traits of the original Clementine of season 1 also, she is the reason why the community cares so much about her, that Clementine was really nice (yeah she's also a child, naïve, etc. but I think you know what I mean), but I digress.
In short, I agree, like always, I think our minds are linked :O. Nah, I'm just joking, we just have very similar opinions I guess.
She isn't always tough one, you know? There are some scenes which are showing us that some things are still difficult for her but she unders… moretands that she needs to do this. For example remember dog scene and the one after that? If you kill a dog then Clementine looks like it's difficult for her. She doesn't really want to kill a dog but she doesn't want him to suffer. Scene after that - she's walking through the forest and then she just starts crying. Either way I hope that TTG will put more scenes like this which will make us not forget that Clementine is still a child and a person with feelings.
I like to see 11 years old Clementine as tougher version of herself from season 1 but still with some of behavior from the past. To be specific - I like that we could act as her in diffrent ways. If we want to act like Clementine from season 1 (good kid with moral compas) then fine but if you want to be more sassy then it's fine too.
Personally I like the way she looks in my playthrough. She is more mature, more tough, not naive as children in her age but still she's Clementine from season 1 in some way. Short version - I like playing as a good character but sometimes I'm sassy (just a little) to others. For example - to Rebecca (just a little and only in episode 1), Carver, Bonnie (also just a little and only in episode 2), Troy.
Agreed. That's why I'm not really a fan of ''badass Clem'',I'd rather see ''nice Clem who cares about other people'', she can be sassy somet… moreimes, of course, but I want to see traits of the original Clementine of season 1 also, she is the reason why the community cares so much about her, that Clementine was really nice (yeah she's also a child, naïve, etc. but I think you know what I mean), but I digress.
In short, I agree, like always, I think our minds are linked :O. Nah, I'm just joking, we just have very similar opinions I guess.
And what do you think happend to Sarah? Carlos is Sarahs Lee and if Lee never died Clem would be way more similar to Sarah. You just can't function in a world like that shelterd from all the bad stuff. If you can't face that the world is a horrible place you have no chance of surving on your own. Also a question we have to ask ourself, what is human? We are hunter, handymen and monsters. In a world like this you can't focus on being human, you have to focus on surviving. Look at characters like Ben, Duck and Sarah they never learned to grow up and become survivorscthat is why none of them is going to survive very long. Maybe Sarah can save herself but I highly doubt it.
I've never roleplayed Lee or Clementine as nice/evil/silent/neutral or anything like that, I just said or did what was closest to what I'd do in a situation like this. And in my mindset, seeing something like this had to happen or else Clementine (me) wouldn't get used to more brutality and death.
Yeah, it's kinda the same in my playthrough. I like to have a balance between these personality traits. I understand she can't be nice all the time, she's in the ZA, she has to be strong and step up sometimes, I just like to have her a bit similar to s1 Clem (only more mature), but that's because I don't want her to change completely into a new person.
(side note: It was a fun discussion but I gotta go, so see ya)
I like to see 11 years old Clementine as tougher version of herself from season 1 but still with some of behavior from the past. To be speci… morefic - I like that we could act as her in diffrent ways. If we want to act like Clementine from season 1 (good kid with moral compas) then fine but if you want to be more sassy then it's fine too.
Personally I like the way she looks in my playthrough. She is more mature, more tough, not naive as children in her age but still she's Clementine from season 1 in some way. Short version - I like playing as a good character but sometimes I'm sassy (just a little) to others. For example - to Rebecca (just a little and only in episode 1), Carver, Bonnie (also just a little and only in episode 2), Troy.
Okay, I'm going to try and verbalise my feelings.
My initial reaction was FUCK YEAH WE ARE KILLING THIS FUCKER as soon as Clem jumped o… morento him. When Luke takes the gun and points it at Carver and doesn't want to kill him, I think 'what?'
I was like 'I'm badass Clem, hell yeah, I'm watching this.'
But, oh dear. Her face while she was watching it.
She was disgusted and enjoying it at the same time. Yes, Carver was a bitch and needed to be eliminated, no, she didn't have to watch it. It doesn't make her stronger or hardened to watch him die. Killing is bad, no matter what, and watching someone die is worse. Revenge isn't a good thing, if Clem grows like that, then yeah she'll survive, but not as a human, but as a monster.
Personally, I believe in forgive and forget and don't seek revenge. For their safety, yeah kill him. But Clem doesn't need to see it.
I wanted Clem to actually participate. Sure, Carver is right about the strong being the ones who survive, but there are different kinds of strength. My Clem also was supportive of Sarah and tried to take the blame for her. Carver was worse than a lurker and his death really should have been dragged out just a bit longer.
Learning that there are things that are just not done without consequences is another way of keeping humanity. I think Clem could have beat the crap out of him as well without becoming a monster...
When the choice to either leave or watch Kenny kill him came up, I immediately thought back to the conversation with Carver near the beginni… moreng of the episode. He said that him and Clementine are more alike than she thinks, and I automatically replied, "I'm not like you." But when I chose to watch Kenny kill him, I realized that damn, Clementine was kind of becoming what Carver talked about: the hardened, stronger new generation, the "not weak" people like him, the type of fighter he hopes his child will be. Clementine isn't an innocent young girl anymore, she's going to always see bad stuff and she's not weak like Carver described Regi and the other people in the group who left, but yeah, it made me think back to Lee in a way, too. He would have never wanted Clem to see that.
I stayed, to prove a point. I really wanted to see how far Kenny would push his self righteous macho attitude. I was suprised, I lost some trust for him in that scene though.
I actually stayed because I thought I could still try to talk Kenny out of doing what he eventually did. I was alright with Carver dying (I … moreeven shot him as Clem) but I didn't want to see Kenny lose even more of his humanity. There was a sense of closure to actually seeing Carver die though, despite how messed up and brutal it was. I like to think that my Clem didn't want to savor the moment, she just didn't want to run away from the reality of what was about to happen to this man who terrorized her and her group.
Comments
While the player makes the decision for Clem, when you do it, it's because Clem wanted to stay, not *ONLY* because you did. This is clear with just about every decision in the game - that's how it's written. However, uniquely, when Clem chooses to leave, it's partly due to pressure from the adults and not just because she doesn't want to see it.
Season 1 was about "protecting" Clem from bad things, Season 2 isn't. We're playing as Clem. It's no ones job to "protect" her now, considering she can handle shit better than most of the adults around her, who are ironically still trying to shield her like she's a baby.
I am however curious about how Clementine will hold up in the future, I agree with that she's tough, but I'm not sure if she can stay that way. In s1 there was Lee to give her hope and support. But who is gonna support her in s2? I have the feeling that she'll eventually break down because of emotional pressure.
one point i wanted to stay but once carver tried talking to me saying that stuff like "see? you and me clem are alike i know you want to watch this." I knew i made the right choice. My Clem is stronger than that coward carver
In short, I agree, like always, I think our minds are linked :O. Nah, I'm just joking, we just have very similar opinions I guess.
Personally I like the way she looks in my playthrough. She is more mature, more tough, not naive as children in her age but still she's Clementine from season 1 in some way. Short version - I like playing as a good character but sometimes I'm sassy (just a little) to others. For example - to Rebecca (just a little and only in episode 1), Carver, Bonnie (also just a little and only in episode 2), Troy.
(side note: It was a fun discussion but I gotta go, so see ya)
Learning that there are things that are just not done without consequences is another way of keeping humanity. I think Clem could have beat the crap out of him as well without becoming a monster...
Lee Everett.