Clementine's Wasted Potential?
So I read a post by Antzen and found myself agreeing with a lot of what he brought up about Clementine's character development, so I wanted to expand on his topic a little more.
My point is this: we're more than halfway through Season 2 and I still don't necessarily know what the overall conflict is or what's driving Clem to carry on with this group (except maybe Kenny) especially now the "main" villain is gone, which is why I'm feeling a little detached from the story. I get that Clem is trying to find an identity in the absence of Lee and the old crew, but she's already so hardened and self-reliant - and compassionate if you let her - that I'm not really worried about her. And perhaps because everyone else is essentially less capable than Clem and all of her current problems are because of the new group, I don't care much for the other survivors.
So I'll go out on a limb here and say that for me it's due to the fact that Clem hasn't developed much in the past 3 episodes. Episode 1 established she's a hardened survivor and a tough little sweetheart. Episodes 2 and 3 fleshed out our villain and the other survivors a little, but I still don't feel they've set up Clem's character arc or internal conflict (though I feel after 3 it could get REALLY interesting - albeit a bit late in my opinion).
Alright so this is more useless conjecture expanding off of Antzen's post, but indulge me. Carver held a lot of potential in driving Clem's story forward. Carver hinted at grooming Clem to be his heir, a deliciously wicked idea that we'll sadly (or thankfully) never see. He could've provided an antithesis to Lee's teachings and perhaps challenged Clementine by forcing her to make some really horrible decisions much like Carlos with Sarah. It would've also been an opportunity to see Clementine interacting with, learning about, and perhaps doing terrible things to the other 400 Days hopefuls, though the cast had already grown a little large and unwieldy.
In fact, Episode 3 made me really wish that Clem had instead been taken in by Carver in Episode 1. Imagine if it was Clementine, not Bonnie, that was working with Carver to bring in the "traitors". Oh how awkwardly awful that role reversal would have been, having Clementine unknowingly lead Carver to Kenny and the others. I'm sure in large part these past three episodes have been a little slow because Telltale's trying to make Clem's rise to power as the group's leader believable. But starting the season with Clementine as Carver's protege would have given her an excuse to make the tough decisions sooner in the season. Regardless, it's a moot point...
Season 1 was brutally effective because everyone's conflict centered on false hopes that were inevitably crushed, whether it was Lily, Carley, Kenny, Lee, Clem, or (insert character name here). In my opinion Season 2 lacks that kind of narrative focus. I really do want Telltale to crush my false hopes for Clem and company a second time, but I hope they're crushed by devastating loss and not by disappointment. I know it's hard to follow up Lee and Clem's story period, but Telltale chose to continue with Clem and I hope that our last 3 hours of gameplay of Season 2 will give her the narrative attention she deserves.
I'm curious to know what you all think about Clementine's development and whether or not you feel Season 2 is shaping up to end in a satisfying manner.
Comments
There is little. Oh, and it is still early to tell about Ep5.
It's an unfair comparison but by episode 3 of season 1, it was tough watching those characters die. Here's hoping.
I think this is something that we'll still get to see. They'll probably force the whole idea of "planting a seed in her mind" into Clementine even though it's not believable in any way judging from the short interactions between Clem and Carver in ep3.
I'm seeing season 2 as a filler season for something bigger in the future. I remember old Vanaman's interviews where he made it sound like Season 2 would be something completely different than what we have now, more like a personal quest for playable character.
Look up the vanaman and peter molyneux interview on youtube. 1 hour 8 minute mark
"Who you are, and what you want and what you're doing and what happens to you I think is gonna be bonkers...something special."
Somewhere around the 1 hour 18 minute mark he hints the season might be about the rebuilding of civilization in the apocalypse.
It's different to season one. Before, we were Lee, guiding her through life. Now, based on who we were as Lee, she's making her own way. I think Telltale needs to do a season three for this reason; to allow Clem's development. This entire season has been about learning who our Clem has become, her morals and herself. Next season could be about where the Clem we have created will go.
I was honestly expecting episode 3 to be a definitive point in Clementine's character arc, pushing her to the brink of insanity. But the fact we just "happen" to come up with a legible plan, enact it, and then pull it off with very little loss was weird. Sure, Kenny got beat to shit, but Carver just forgot about Luke and walked out.
I was also very excited about Carver as a kind of "justifiable villain." Giving Clementine advice on survival, taking great lengths to train her, and ultimately being her new "guardian" would have been a believable thing. But no, just make him a fucking nut who kills somebody who obviously didn't deserve it.
Also what was with the camp? It didn't feel very oppressive nor did it feel like a place that was a "beacon." I never felt like I was escaping, things would just have a way of correcting themselves. When Troy told me to "get my ass to Carver" I just wanted the freedom to walk about to see if I could just waltz around like I owned the place.
I do believe that this season feels more like a filler for what is next to come in season 3, if they hopefully decide to create it. Carver was very popular with the fandom because of the idea of his character. TWDG has never really had a totalitarian big bad like him, unlike the comics and TV show which had the Governor and Negan, and we all expected him to last for longer than he did. But again, we already had the Governor and Negan, Carver would just be a repeat with a completely new cast. He brought to the table his Darwinistic ideals and allowed Clem and the players to stew over them, because they will definitely have an impact in the last 2 episodes. I do believe that if Jane sticks around, she will sort of take on Carver's role and maybe mentor Clementine her own way because Jane and Carver have quite similar ways of thinking. I think Clementine's development is slow-building because she's already seen so much... what will be the thing that either breaks her or empowers her? How much will it take before she either snaps from the horrible stress or uses her distress as a motivator to keep going? Will she choose to let only the strong survive to better her chances or will she take it upon herself to look after those who need help? I would love to see s2 end with Clementine becoming a leader either Lee or Carver (depending on your choices) would be proud of. I feel that's what TWDG is leading up to, tbh. But we'll have to wait and see.
A filler season?
I'd ask in what way, but you've already done hours of explaining how terrible season 2 is.
Thanks for the shoutout!
As you said, most of what I think about this issue I elaborated on in that post. I encourage you to participate in that discussion though - a lot of elements about Clem's character development have been analyzed with lots of attention to detail, and I'm curious to see how you'll respond to each detail.
Anyways, I find your conjecture about Carver to be interesting and potentially better for Clem's character development. However, I think there's value in keeping Carver antagonistic to Clem, and there is still lots of opportunities for character development (though TTG doesn't take advantage of these opportunities). The reason why I think Carver needs to stay opposed to Clem is because this clash between their ideals is exactly what we the players would expect. First of all, if we started the season with Clem helping Carver, a lot of questions would be immediately raised and it would be difficult to answer why Clem would join such a terrible regime. Secondly, and more importantly, seeing Clem exactly where we would expect, against Carver, would paradoxically make us players more uncomfortable. Will Clem stay strong against Carver? Will she be drawn to his survivalist mentality? TTG can then play even more on this, maybe giving subtle hints that Clem's character is slowly changing from this good, Lee-taught girl we knew, from what exactly what we the players would expect. This would be a more impactful, devastating, and menacing way to see Clem's character development - but of course, TTG doesn't play on this and just kills of Carver. *facepalm. For more details on the "subtle ways" we can see Clem's character development, read through the comments on my [post].(http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/71784/clementine-s-character-development "Title")
However, what I think could work is that Clem joins Carver's group before Carver turned into such a psychopath. This entire season could have been about Clementine right off the bat finding Tavia's great community. It would seem like a happy ending already, it would be what we players want to see. Carver would become her new best friend, sympathizing with Clem, helping her mentally recover from Lee's death, essentially becoming her new "Lee." But then - character development! Something happens that starts to change Carver, and Clem begins to feel more and more disconnected from this community and from Carver as she begins to realize that Carver is not like Lee - that although Carver is protective, he has become the monster that Lee taught her not to become. Of course, it is here that Luke's group can become involved. And before you know it, Carver is no longer the new "Lee" in Clem's life - he starts to become the foil of Lee, and, knowing Clem's background, may even start using events in Season 1 against Clem. Clem would, in a sense, become alone again - she must face Carver, she must recognize that she must follow what she knows is right, even when people around her are changing. The season would end with the destruction of the community, and, most importantly, it would end not only in Carver's physical death, but also in the death of Carver's soul.
Season 1 is all about how Lee grows as a moral individual and how he properly guides Clem to become a moral survivor of this world, but Season 2 would be about how Carver degrades into a psychopath and how he tries to bring Clem down with him. In season 1, Lee's death was a sacrifice for Clem and her future, but in season 2, Carver's death would be caused by his attempt to kill her and her hopes of a peaceful future.
Also, in Season 1, Clem grows to become the hardened but kind survivor we know today, but in Season 2, another element of Clem's becomes prominent - she has learned the physical skills - now it's about her mental strength, her independence. In Season 1, Clem already took the first step by accepting her parents' deaths. But now, Clem would develop even more as she realizes, witnessing Carver's demise, that she cannot continue to search for a "Lee" to guide her, that "Lee" is truly dead, that she must be completely independent now, that she must take on the position of Lee and make those difficult moral decisions. It would be what we players expect, but in the end, we accept it with heartbreak as we see Clem go through so much trauma to fully realize it, as we realize that this was not what Clem expected, that her original hopes have been further crushed. Now, although I like this idea personally, I do understand it is quite cliche; hence TTG didn't use this story. However, even this seems to be better than season 2 as of now - we really do need some character development from Clem.