A possible negative to playing Clementine?
Now hear me out on this one. I really enjoy playing Clementine but I figured I would at least try and discuss this. This has to do with one MAJOR difference between playing as Lee and playing as Clementine. As Lee we had major consequences for our actions and some people hated us for them (ex. Lilly and Kenny). As Clementine, when we make a major decision like going with Pete or Nick, or the decisions in A House Divided they seem to hold more weight on other characters and not so much Clementine. It seems like because Clementine is just a young girl, her decisions don't hold much weight and no matter what you do you can never quite piss off characters. You may be hateful to Rebecca in Episode One but in the next episode Rebecca could be completely cool with you. Do you guys know what I'm saying?
Comments
Yeah, I definitely have seen the difference in the consequences of S1 actions versus the consequences in S2 actions. You could be horrible to Rebecca and Carlos but it doesn't seem to change how they feel about Clem later on.
That's also possible I suppose. I hate to think that but I fear you could be correct.
sorry double post
triple post. why are the forums so buggy?
I honestly thought Carlos would be a problem for Clem but hell they were fine by the end of Episode 3. And I thought Rebecca would be horrible but I like her now.
Yeah, I have to agree. It seemed fine for people to hold grudges towards Lee, but holding grudges against Clem just seems silly and weird. I thought that one of the benefits to having Sarah around was that because she was a kid (and a childish one at that), it would work for her to hold a grudge against Clem. But even that seems to have been washed out now. Pretty disappointing. I was hoping that Clem would find her own Kenny or Larry to butt heads with a bit, but so far she hasn't had any consistent opposition. Maybe Carlos, but barely.
I'll probably get a lot of hate for this but I honestly think we should've had Lee for two seasons and then by season 3 play Clem when she's 16 or so. It's just hard for there to be tension playing a kid. At least with regular characters. If we had Lee for two seasons then I feel it could've developed more.
Maybe, but the ending to Season 1 was planned long before there was even a whisper of Season 2, so what can you do? Maybe playing as another guardian like Christa or someone else? But then that person would have to die for Clem to become to protagonist and that would just seem repetitive. And it wouldn't have the same impact as handing the reigns off from Lee to Clem.
And there are tensions to be found in playing as a kid, I just don't think they've explored that as much as they could have. Her actions probably won't make people pissed off at Clem, but they could still change the way that characters interact with her. Luke could maybe become more concerned and apprehensive towards her if he sees her becoming a darker character. Kenny could become more forceful in pushing her to do things if she still shies away from what he thinks "needs to be done." There's lots of dynamics that could be explored playing as Clem.
Am I crazy for thinking that we might have had a multiple protagonist season before it started?
If we had Lee for two seasons, hell I don't think I'd want anyone else after that!
I didn't want anyone else after season one haha I wanted to keep taking care of Clem.
For me at least, another negative issue about playing as Clementine is that her characteristic personality. We saw in Season One that Clementine was learning from Lee about what kind of person we had to become in this world. Hell I don't know what happened in this 24 months she spend without Lee (thanks for this huge timeskip Telltale) but I mean c'mon not even a little impact? That's right there makes me think like my Season One choices just stands there for waiting someone... only... mentoning? Telltale could've done a lot of amazing things with our S1 choices like; Clem's personality, Clem's automatic response in serious situations depending on how we played as Lee or MORE. I'm SO sorry if that sounds like I'm critisizing Telltale. Hell no! I'm just saying they could've done better things. Let's hope for Season 3. Hear me out Telltale Staff and thaaaangsss.
I don't think that a foil needs to necessarily hold a grudge against the protagonist. In the context of Clem being a kid, Carlos/Rebecca/whomever could express concern or scold Clementine, and that would have been good enough for me. In real life, adults call out children all the time if they feel they are misbehaving.
All That Remains took the negative interactions to an, at times, silly extreme, but the rest of the season went to the other extreme and axed them altogether. Not only negative reactions, but seemingly any reaction at all. I don't want to believe it is because of laziness on TT's part.
AGREE!! Plus I can be a dick at times, and when Clementine is rude, it just doesn't feel right. I miss LEE in a big way.
Well, they need to hold some nuanced view of Clem in their mind. The easiest way to do that is usually with a positive or negative valence, but you're right that it doesn't have to be.
Kenny's character in Season 1 seemed so dynamic because he had the potential to hold 2 very different views of who Lee is. He could either see Lee as a great best friend who always has his back through thick and thin or he could see Lee as a wishy-washy guy who won't have his back when push comes to shove. And he'll respond to Lee differently depending on which view he has of him.
What really drives it home, though, is consistency. Kenny is either consistently an asshole to Lee or consistently his buddy. That's what I mean by "grudge." It's not enough that Carlos or Rebecca express concern or scold Clementine for what she does. What she does needs to change the way those those characters interact with Clem throughout the rest of the episodes. When talking about the relationship between Carlos or Rebecca and Clementine, I should be able to say "My Carlos" or "My Rebecca" and have it be distinct from "Your Carlos" and "Your Rebecca." And I can't. And that sucks.
Indeed, it does suck.
I get what you're saying about consistency. I thought we had gone through two of those defining moments right out of the bat in All That Remains with Carlos forgiving or not trusting Clementine after her encounter with Sarah and letting Rebecca know (or not) that we knew about the baby. Imagine my surprise and frustration when A House Divided came along and all was forgiven or simply was not worth a damn. We lack even the most basic of reactions from our cast, right now. At this point, it seems too much to hope they at least add those back in, let alone the bigger ones.
Very true. The weight of Clem's decisions in season 2 are less significant so far than Lee's in season 1. I don't think any less of season 2 for these things, though. I think it's all part of the grand scheme of The Walking Dead. In season 1, Lee makes the big decisions that all come together to forge Clementine as a person and her future. Then, in season 2, she grows up to take on the role Lee played. Clem's still just a little girl though and she can't always put herself in charge of every situation. When she does get to make a choice, it doesn't usually have a huge influence like Lee's often did. Hopefully we'll get a season 3 where Clementine grows older and more mature and truly gets to experience the burden of leadership as Lee did.
You are. It is constructive criticism, bro; you are not succumbing to the dark side.
Don't you worry, I know what it is like to have so many double posts...
The simplest answer... sigh
lol I remember that.
Yeah when we first met Bonnie in A House Divided, I wanted to be nice and honest to her! Instead everyone just saw Clementine as cold and unforgiving no matter what they did in that scene.
Cough* 6 Cough*
I guess the only real impact on how we play as Clem, is her relationship with Sarah. Although her opinion of Clem is not as defined/complex as say Kenny's was to Lee depending on our actions, it's still notable imo. For instance if we agree to be her friend in ATR, she'll lend Clem her book and ask her how to use a gun. If we're also nice to her in AHD, in ep3 if Troy hits us at the start of the episode she'll respond along the likes of 'don't hurt her, she's my friend' rather than just 'don't hurt her'.
Not a huge thing, but it shows us the consequences of our interactions with others and actually makes the whole 'person X will remember that' actually important.
I think the decision involving whether to watch or leave during Carver's beating will produce some polarised reactions amongst the group. I chose to stay, and I'm predicting Luke will see us a bit differently after that. That scene was just too big to not warrant any consequences towards changing perceptions of Clem amongst the group.