Number 4 is a very valid point. That scene reminded me of the latest Underworld movie (Evolution, I believe). The werewolves run through the streets chasing a car, jumping on cars, etc. It looked just like that scene. I find it odd that Toad doesn't get to stay, even if you give him the money, but Bigby ran through the streets causing chaos and Snow doesn't care. She's a bit hypocritical about that, in my opinion.
They only found "Faiths" head. Swineheart probably noticed something was strange with it and was still in the process of doing tests. I had a theory that wasn't completely right but unlike OPs theory, I was at least in the same ballpark. I was wrong about which person Faith was glamoured as, but was right about Faith being glamoured as someone. And unlike OP, my ego isn't so inflated that me being wrong about my theory didn't ruin the game for me. Which is why I'm not posting a thread complaining about episode 5. And contrary to what OP thinks, this ending was great. It was left ambiguous enough for there to be a 2nd season, but enough closure in case they want to stop there. Here's my suggestion for you and OP. Read the graphic novels.
It was just a weird fucking ending to me.
Did Swinehart not realize that it was not Faith's head, if we're saying that it was a glamoured… more Nerissa that got killed? Or did Swinehart play along with it?
I have to play through the entire game again and see if there are any plot holes to this, which I really think there is. Hmm.
Episode 5 rating: 7/10
As for Toad - unfortunately they just had to keep true to the comic's storyline. I hated to see Toad and TJ get exiled into The Farm just like that but that's where the Toad's at in the comics from what I've heard...
Number 4 is a very valid point. That scene reminded me of the latest Underworld movie (Evolution, I believe). The werewolves run through the… more streets chasing a car, jumping on cars, etc. It looked just like that scene. I find it odd that Toad doesn't get to stay, even if you give him the money, but Bigby ran through the streets causing chaos and Snow doesn't care. She's a bit hypocritical about that, in my opinion.
If that is the case, wouldn't she be worried word would get back to the Crooked Man or Georgie that "Faith" was seen around. I want to believe that was really Faith, but I'm not sure how she managed to get "Nerrisa glamoured as Faith" killed without blowing her own cover.
He may have known something just wasn't right. But before, Lilly's glamour only wore off when the tube was opened, and we never found Faith/Nerissa's glamour tube.
It was just a weird fucking ending to me.
Did Swinehart not realize that it was not Faith's head, if we're saying that it was a glamoured… more Nerissa that got killed? Or did Swinehart play along with it?
I have to play through the entire game again and see if there are any plot holes to this, which I really think there is. Hmm.
Episode 5 rating: 7/10
Faith was already dead before the episode started. Nerissa tells you that she put the head on the steps for Bigby to find. If that is the case, the only real possiblity left is that Nerissa was glamoured as Faith from the start.
It was just a weird fucking ending to me.
Did Swinehart not realize that it was not Faith's head, if we're saying that it was a glamoured… more Nerissa that got killed? Or did Swinehart play along with it?
I have to play through the entire game again and see if there are any plot holes to this, which I really think there is. Hmm.
Episode 5 rating: 7/10
I interpreted that Faith had already been dead by the time Episode 1 took place, and Nerissa had glamoured herself as Faith and orchestrated a disturbance with Woody (longtime rival of Bigby) as just another way of catching his attention. Leaving Faith's head on his doorstep was all well and good, but she wanted him to get that personal connection with the "victim". Make him care.
Anyway, I don't think she set him up for any reason beyond getting him invested in the case.
It can't be it. How do you explain the head of a previously dead woman to "gain" the same beating marks that the girl had after being slapped around by Woddy?
I interpreted that Faith had already been dead by the time Episode 1 took place, and Nerissa had glamoured herself as Faith and orchestrated… more a disturbance with Woody (longtime rival of Bigby) as just another way of catching his attention. Leaving Faith's head on his doorstep was all well and good, but she wanted him to get that personal connection with the "victim". Make him care.
Anyway, I don't think she set him up for any reason beyond getting him invested in the case.
Okay, I don't have the answer to that. Truthfully, every theory I've seen on the ending so far is chock full of holes. This is just the one that makes the most sense to me script-wise, and the one I'm going with until I see a better option.
It can't be it. How do you explain the head of a previously dead woman to "gain" the same beating marks that the girl had after being slapped around by Woddy?
People, there's one very important point that we are missing. How would Nerissa get a Faith glamour? (Or the other way around) If that was the case, aunt Greenleaf must have been in it.
I believe that we meet Faith at the beginning, and that Nerissa feels responsible for their upcoming deaths after she tells Georgie about the photo, so she makes Faith switch with her, before Georgie comes to kill her. In the Smeltery we see a photo on the board that shows Faith being mad at Nerissa. Probably after Nerissa told her about how she snitched. Nerissas Book Of Fables tells us she finds comfort in her fellow dancers. Probably felt so ashamed and responsible that she sacrificed herself. So then we have Faith standing in Nerissas place, trying to get Bigby hooked on the case. She has flirted with him, so she knows he did like her. So she placed Nerissas head (glamoured as Faith) on the doorstep with the ribbon and her ring to give him some strong leads as to who she were and stuff.. She also send a note to her husband that she was sorry and he shouldnt look for her. Meaning that she isnt dead and that she cant come back. As her story tells that she hides herself, she chose to keep the glamour on. atleast until she found a new place.
Hit me with your plotholes and i hope i can pass your trials.
I don't know what to think anymore, but I feel quite sure that the girl we met being slapped by Woody is the same we later met in the club. I need to give myself a chance to play ep5 at least once time with my nice and bad guy saves to try to wrap things up.
yeah i enjoyed every bit of this season and it did well enough for telltale to do a second... always view it from a business viewpoint.. if something sells almost certainly more will follow
They only found "Faiths" head. Swineheart probably noticed something was strange with it and was still in the process of doing tests. I had … morea theory that wasn't completely right but unlike OPs theory, I was at least in the same ballpark. I was wrong about which person Faith was glamoured as, but was right about Faith being glamoured as someone. And unlike OP, my ego isn't so inflated that me being wrong about my theory didn't ruin the game for me. Which is why I'm not posting a thread complaining about episode 5. And contrary to what OP thinks, this ending was great. It was left ambiguous enough for there to be a 2nd season, but enough closure in case they want to stop there. Here's my suggestion for you and OP. Read the graphic novels.
I think the original fairy tales hold clues to what the writers intended for the ending. Both the Little Mermaid and Allerleirauh involve the main characters disguising themselves or changing their form, which fits with Faith/Nerissa's actions through TWAU.
At the end of Hans Christian Andersen's original Little Mermaid she chooses to die rather than kill the prince and regain mermaid-hood. She jumps off the prince's ship and her body dissolves into sea foam.
Allerleirauh gets a happy ending with her new prince hubby.
This seems like the best explanation to me, though I still find some parts confusing.
1) How would Faith and Nerissa manage to get the glamours without the aid of Greenleaf?
2) In Episode 1, you have a choice of whether or not to give Faith money, but not every player did this and the ending is the same. It would make sense to me that giving Faith money she'd be able to get her glamour without the help from Greenleaf. Yet the ending stays the same if you didn't give her the money.
It is still confusing how it went down, but your explanation is most plausible from all I've read
I hope it wasn't an overlook. I don't think there's any way to perfectly reproduce the beating marks. The head we found has to be the girl we saw getting the beating (I take it that they used the same model and textures simply because so). Either part of her plan with the other girls was to lose her head, to have it delivered to Bibgy and then given to Swineheart so the doctor could have it reunited with her body that was never found... or Bigby's realization at the very end is misconception on his part, which I find hard to believe.
As they don't give us a straight answer I hope that they didn't left any considerable holes when they rewrote the story after the leak...
... inconsistent modeling?
Okay, I don't have the answer to that. Truthfully, every theory I've seen on the ending so far is chock full o… moref holes. This is just the one that makes the most sense to me script-wise, and the one I'm going with until I see a better option.
well I like it (except for the final boss battle...I guess I was expecting something different...but hey that's just me...)...and hope that they make another game for BIGBY and the rest of Fabletown...again I love the game and the bad boy detective theme is awesome! If they make another game for BIGBY and the Fabletown folks I'd buy it again!
Why does Faith have to be Nerissa? What if Nerissa was Faith in the beginning just in glamour and the head at the doorstep was actually Faith's? (assuming Nerissa's story near the end about Faith walking in and Georgie killing her is true)
Unless the part when Dr. Swinehart said he wanted to run more tests meant that the head was glamoured. But, why wouldn't the doctor have said something about that? After all, they discovered that Lily was in glamour.
Ok, but, if you can see that clearly she playing us off, whose head do you think it is? I had theorized about Faith being Nerissa way back b… moreut I dismissed it because Nerissa wasn't a new comer (if she was a new dancer, I would be more inclined to believe the possibility). Now I'm left thinking that the head we found may be the real Nerissa's. Faith is the coldest bitch if that's so.
I'm also very disappointed in the game. Bigby turned out to be a complete idiot, not an intelligent detective he is in the comics, many things remained hanging in the air as I feared they would and that stupid ending was so unnecessary... it raised bunch of new questions and made you question everything you did.
If Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa and Nerissa was Faith, does it mean that Nerissa stole the photo whilst glamoured or Faith stole it and let Nerissa get killed for what she has done while cowardly hiding her true identity... or did Georgie knew that he killed Nerissa and lied about her being Faith. If so why? If Faith stole the photo, why would she come pleading to Georgie? It has to be Nerissa and the girl at the end (Faith, in this case) simply switched the roles while telling Bigby what happened, but if it was actually Nerissa why would Georgie kill Faith, (that is if she was glamoured to look like Faith at that time, if she wasn't why would Faith glamour herself as Nerissa afterward and how come Georgie wouldn't notice that)? And there are other questions like "have Swineheart figured it out?" and so...
I was half-expecting they'd pull an ending like this... instead of trying to wrap everything up as best they could and create strong storyline, they just had to add another "twist" which adds more questions to the already unanswered bunch and make it a sort of cliffhanger...
A sudden twist at the end - it is an oldest storytelling trick there is and is actually a very cheap one, most of the time it feels forced, anyone could do it and usually does it for the kicks or to try and make story seem more "intelligent" than it actually is, even though it is mostly a simple gimmick one can always do at the end of the story. There are rare occasions where it is done masterfully, but it has to be tied to a very strong narrative for it to work that way. As a writer I much more appreciate a well-thought, intelligent storyline that wraps everything nicely in the end, without any loose ends than the one which leaves plenty of them and pulls a cheap trick like this one and make you scratch your head and question the story entirely.
I really liked the episode 1 of the game and some later episodes had their moments also, though they were significantly inferior in quality... now I know that we don't all have same expectations, but look and story of an episode 1 and the fact that Bigby was shown to be an intelligent, deducing detective in the comics, made me believe that it was detective game that we were getting here, but instead of connecting evidence Bigby would mostly get in a big long fights with almost everyone he'd encounter and made himself look like a complete fool, unable to grasp any clue thrown in his direction (the ribbons, for example).
I was expecting much better plot than this one and a game of a detective genre, not goddamn "Mortal Combat". Anyway, what I find most tragic is that I half-like the games Telltale does, they have all of the elements of games that I usually like and they look beautiful and atmospheric, but in the end they utterly disappoint me. I think that Telltale needs better writers. It is the shame, because they seem like a very creative company that can do better.
I absolutely agree with you,and if they aren't going to make season 2 or DLC, players will never be able to figure the exact situation out. There are many theories about that cliffhanger at the end, but we'll never know what really happened.
I'm also very disappointed in the game. Bigby turned out to be a complete idiot, not an intelligent detective he is in the comics, many thin… moregs remained hanging in the air as I feared they would and that stupid ending was so unnecessary... it raised bunch of new questions and made you question everything you did.
If Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa and Nerissa was Faith, does it mean that Nerissa stole the photo whilst glamoured or Faith stole it and let Nerissa get killed for what she has done while cowardly hiding her true identity... or did Georgie knew that he killed Nerissa and lied about her being Faith. If so why? If Faith stole the photo, why would she come pleading to Georgie? It has to be Nerissa and the girl at the end (Faith, in this case) simply switched the roles while telling Bigby what happened, but if it was actually Nerissa why would Georgie kill Faith, (that is if she was glamoured to look like Faith at that time, if sh… [view original content]
That's exactly how I feel. They made Bigby progressively more an more like a regular washed out action hero. She played him from the beginning and he never questioned her until the very end when she rubbed it in his face repeating that same phrase.
I even had a few theories up (I can't find the others because I can't see see a list of the discussions I started in this stupid forums) that called most of the important points of the final twist. Here's the first of them:
www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/72452/new-theory-on-faith-possibly-being-behind-this-whole-mess/p1
The disappointing part is not how things turned out but how long it took for Bigby to realize something was off, and how the game ended at that very moment, leaving way too much up to our interpretation of various ambiguous plot points with a virtually infinite number of possibilities. It would have been better to me if, even after rushing himself and doing the girl's dirty work like a puppet, Bigby got to confront her if he didn't choose to let her go (to me Bigby was in love with her, so he could just let her go because he didn't want to face the true), instead we got a black screen and credits no matter the option we pick. :-\
I'm also very disappointed in the game. Bigby turned out to be a complete idiot, not an intelligent detective he is in the comics, many thin… moregs remained hanging in the air as I feared they would and that stupid ending was so unnecessary... it raised bunch of new questions and made you question everything you did.
If Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa and Nerissa was Faith, does it mean that Nerissa stole the photo whilst glamoured or Faith stole it and let Nerissa get killed for what she has done while cowardly hiding her true identity... or did Georgie knew that he killed Nerissa and lied about her being Faith. If so why? If Faith stole the photo, why would she come pleading to Georgie? It has to be Nerissa and the girl at the end (Faith, in this case) simply switched the roles while telling Bigby what happened, but if it was actually Nerissa why would Georgie kill Faith, (that is if she was glamoured to look like Faith at that time, if sh… [view original content]
Just checked out your theory. Few things are off, but that's to be expected of course, otherwise great job mate, I wonder how I haven't came across that particular theory of yours before. I find it somewhat eerie to read it now after things described in your post actually happened in game. It's almost a complete spot on, well done!
By the way I agree completely with what you wrote here.
That's exactly how I feel. They made Bigby progressively more an more like a regular washed out action hero. She played him from the beginni… moreng and he never questioned her until the very end when she rubbed it in his face repeating that same phrase.
I even had a few theories up (I can't find the others because I can't see see a list of the discussions I started in this stupid forums) that called most of the important points of the final twist. Here's the first of them:
www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/72452/new-theory-on-faith-possibly-being-behind-this-whole-mess/p1
The disappointing part is not how things turned out but how long it took for Bigby to realize something was off, and how the game ended at that very moment, leaving way too much up to our interpretation of various ambiguous plot points with a virtually infinite number of possibilities. It would have been better to me if, even after rushing himself and doing the gi… [view original content]
I guess I would say the ending leaves me frustrated, but not so much at the game itself as much as the fact that I still don't understand it. I don't see where it came from or how it really makes sense. It seems right now like an ass-pull of a twist that doesn't really do anything, especially since it ended when it did. I mean, would anything about the game be any different if it had just been as it seemed? Nobody even knows what precisely happened which tells me that it wasn't adequately foreshadowed and just seems like... the opposite of a deus ex machina (opposite in the sense that rather than resolving anything it creates new plots). Although this could just be my failing, but the fact that it just faded at that point exacerbates this feeling because we won't get the explanation we need until season 2, if at all.
That being said, I enjoyed the episode as a whole, full wolf bigby was awesome, I'm just super-confused about the ending and know it won't be properly explained for a long time if ever.
Heh, opposite of "god from the machine", how come I never though of this before? I would call this simply disjointedness in the story, due to a sudden twist (though story is generally disjointed, even without it many other things leave me frustrated also). By the way I don't think there'll be season 2, but I might be mistaken... but, yeah, it has been great to see Bigby in full wolf form, I was hoping that would happen in the final episode and at least we got that.
I guess I would say the ending leaves me frustrated, but not so much at the game itself as much as the fact that I still don't understand it… more. I don't see where it came from or how it really makes sense. It seems right now like an ass-pull of a twist that doesn't really do anything, especially since it ended when it did. I mean, would anything about the game be any different if it had just been as it seemed? Nobody even knows what precisely happened which tells me that it wasn't adequately foreshadowed and just seems like... the opposite of a deus ex machina (opposite in the sense that rather than resolving anything it creates new plots). Although this could just be my failing, but the fact that it just faded at that point exacerbates this feeling because we won't get the explanation we need until season 2, if at all.
That being said, I enjoyed the episode as a whole, full wolf bigby was awesome, I'm just super-confused about the ending and know it won't be properly explained for a long time if ever.
There are other things that appear to have just been slightly forgotten and still confuse me, but I kind of understand a few plot holes if they re-wrote the entire thing after the first episode like people say. I also feel like maybe, for the same reason, the series ended up being kind of rushed hence the "disjointedness" especially with TWD being released concurrently. I thought the first episode was probably the best overall honestly.
I hope there is a season 2 because I did love the first season but I hope TTG take a break and don't try to push themselves too hard each release. Make sure they get it perfect. No ending on a contrived twist that serves only to set up another season, whether such a season materializes or not. This franchise and the concept of the fables universe has soooooooo much potential and TTG really hit that potential in the beginning, I just felt they slipped a little, probably due to time pressure, after they rewrote things. It was still good and I enjoyed it but it didn't quite live up to the expectations overall I had based on the first episode.
Heh, opposite of "god from the machine", how come I never though of this before? I would call this simply disjointedness in the story, due t… moreo a sudden twist (though story is generally disjointed, even without it many other things leave me frustrated also). By the way I don't think there'll be season 2, but I might be mistaken... but, yeah, it has been great to see Bigby in full wolf form, I was hoping that would happen in the final episode and at least we got that.
It's just like you took my words and rephrased them in a more polite, understanding and civilized manner. I completely agree with everything here. I'd like to see and play season 2 actually, if I detach myself from some hopes and expectations and forget about Fables comics I could really enjoy it. I still regret about what could have been based on episode 1, but what's there is there... The fact is, there are way too many "Call of Duties" and "Gods of War" out there, so any game of this, more narrative and interacting kind that gets made I consider to be a gem.
There are other things that appear to have just been slightly forgotten and still confuse me, but I kind of understand a few plot holes if t… morehey re-wrote the entire thing after the first episode like people say. I also feel like maybe, for the same reason, the series ended up being kind of rushed hence the "disjointedness" especially with TWD being released concurrently. I thought the first episode was probably the best overall honestly.
I hope there is a season 2 because I did love the first season but I hope TTG take a break and don't try to push themselves too hard each release. Make sure they get it perfect. No ending on a contrived twist that serves only to set up another season, whether such a season materializes or not. This franchise and the concept of the fables universe has soooooooo much potential and TTG really hit that potential in the beginning, I just felt they slipped a little, probably due to time pressure, after they rewro… [view original content]
That's kind of cheap. They just don't want to confirm anything. Normally, season finale implies that the series is not finished yet. They're… more changing the meaning of these terms just because they want to leave us hanging or they are indecisive. They shouldn't call it a "season finale" if they're not planning on making another season. It's misleading to people who understand what these terms normally mean. I love Telltale, I just don't like that they called it a season finale and yet expect people to not expect another season is on the way.
I don't think that was meant to be a cliffhanger at all. Just something to think about. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the answer is, as it doesn't change anything, and it's not even necessarily worth following up upon, which is why you have the option to just let her walk away. I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say with near certainty that even if there is a second season of TWAU, Nerissa will not factor into it at all.
I think with regards to Bigby seeming like an idiot in the end, the fact that it is a prequel to the graphic novel story, could suggest rather than being an idiot, it's a learning curve that possibly aided in Bibgy being the kind of detective he is later down the line.
I'm also very disappointed in the game. Bigby turned out to be a complete idiot, not an intelligent detective he is in the comics, many thin… moregs remained hanging in the air as I feared they would and that stupid ending was so unnecessary... it raised bunch of new questions and made you question everything you did.
If Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa and Nerissa was Faith, does it mean that Nerissa stole the photo whilst glamoured or Faith stole it and let Nerissa get killed for what she has done while cowardly hiding her true identity... or did Georgie knew that he killed Nerissa and lied about her being Faith. If so why? If Faith stole the photo, why would she come pleading to Georgie? It has to be Nerissa and the girl at the end (Faith, in this case) simply switched the roles while telling Bigby what happened, but if it was actually Nerissa why would Georgie kill Faith, (that is if she was glamoured to look like Faith at that time, if sh… [view original content]
I think with regards to Bigby seeming like an idiot in the end, the fact that it is a prequel to the graphic novel story, could suggest rath… moreer than being an idiot, it's a learning curve that possibly aided in Bibgy being the kind of detective he is later down the line.
I agree with you that the Bigby we see in TWAU seems to be clueless, while in the comics Bigby is an amazing detective, and very good at finding( (and interpreting) clues. For example, I thought the game would have ended in a similar fashion as the first volume of the Fables comic book. With Bigby connecting all of the information, clues, and tying everything together himself, instead the crooked man basically makes a good point about Bigby having a shady case, and makes Bigby look incompetent, until Faith/nerissa( we really don't know XD) comes and saves his ass with a lie.
I guess what I am trying to say is I felt Bigby wasn't the same detective I love from Fables. Also, we never had a real chance to connect to dots, or present evidence to the crowd when the crooked man called for it, other then " Georgie told me so ".
I'm also very disappointed in the game. Bigby turned out to be a complete idiot, not an intelligent detective he is in the comics, many thin… moregs remained hanging in the air as I feared they would and that stupid ending was so unnecessary... it raised bunch of new questions and made you question everything you did.
If Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa and Nerissa was Faith, does it mean that Nerissa stole the photo whilst glamoured or Faith stole it and let Nerissa get killed for what she has done while cowardly hiding her true identity... or did Georgie knew that he killed Nerissa and lied about her being Faith. If so why? If Faith stole the photo, why would she come pleading to Georgie? It has to be Nerissa and the girl at the end (Faith, in this case) simply switched the roles while telling Bigby what happened, but if it was actually Nerissa why would Georgie kill Faith, (that is if she was glamoured to look like Faith at that time, if sh… [view original content]
Episode was awsome and when you think about it there are many clues that nerissa was glamoured as faith in the firt ep:
1- Faith(nerissa glamoured as faith) says she will swing by his apartment and it is nerissa that goes to his apartment
2- While they meet for the first time nerissa or bigby( cant remember) says : have we met before ? and nerissa says : youre trying to place to me. AS in youre trying to remember where you saw me before.
At the end of the game, Faith walks away. Bigby is left to tie all the threads together himself, and so are the players. The ending still resonates well emotionally. In life we are not spoon fed answers to every detail of who did what and when, so why should we in a video game?
Additionally, this sort of open-ended conclusion--leaving one more mystery for the audience to solve on their own--is a convention of the genre. Look at the ending of a movie like Chinatown, probably the most iconic example of film noir, and you'll find almost every major conflict is unresolved. What matters more is the hero's descent into darkness--the recognition of the deep permeation of corruption in their universe on nearly every level. Faith was able to struggle against all the powers that conspired against her to shed some light on the situation to someone who could do something about it.
So long as her actions seem plausible within the universe, I do not need all the details to feel fully satisfied emotionally with this conclusion
Play it yourself, it feels much different than just watching some others playtrough from a small smartphone screen.
I give it 9 out of 10, episode was very intense and the enging gave butterflies in to my stomach. It's good they didn't explain everything, it put me and I'm sure lot of other to people wonder about those things.
Nerissa could've just took faith's hair when she was still alive or even from her dead body. We true fans overthink things too much so it can ruin some people's experience of the episodes.
And how it made Bigby look like a "moron" or a "bad detective", he solved the case and even figured Nerissa glamoured herself to look like Faith?
Faith was dead the night before her head was placed. Nerissa leads you to capture the Crooked Man. Bigby has excellent hearing, the only way for us to make a comparison was to make us hear what Nerissa said and what "Faith" said one after the other.
Does people seriously want every fucking thing explained and 'riding into the sunset' ending? It's more fun to wonder about the things by yourself and maybe solve everything in your mind but to never get a confirmation that your theory is correct or wrong. It's fun, it keeps you wondering even longer.
" However, in general, The Wolf Among Us is one of the best interactive stories I have ever played (we can't really call it a game, can we?) and I am really glad TellTale made this game."
Just thought I'd bring it up, it's funny to me.
Comments
Number 4 is a very valid point. That scene reminded me of the latest Underworld movie (Evolution, I believe). The werewolves run through the streets chasing a car, jumping on cars, etc. It looked just like that scene. I find it odd that Toad doesn't get to stay, even if you give him the money, but Bigby ran through the streets causing chaos and Snow doesn't care. She's a bit hypocritical about that, in my opinion.
They only found "Faiths" head. Swineheart probably noticed something was strange with it and was still in the process of doing tests. I had a theory that wasn't completely right but unlike OPs theory, I was at least in the same ballpark. I was wrong about which person Faith was glamoured as, but was right about Faith being glamoured as someone. And unlike OP, my ego isn't so inflated that me being wrong about my theory didn't ruin the game for me. Which is why I'm not posting a thread complaining about episode 5. And contrary to what OP thinks, this ending was great. It was left ambiguous enough for there to be a 2nd season, but enough closure in case they want to stop there. Here's my suggestion for you and OP. Read the graphic novels.
As for Toad - unfortunately they just had to keep true to the comic's storyline. I hated to see Toad and TJ get exiled into The Farm just like that but that's where the Toad's at in the comics from what I've heard...
If that is the case, wouldn't she be worried word would get back to the Crooked Man or Georgie that "Faith" was seen around. I want to believe that was really Faith, but I'm not sure how she managed to get "Nerrisa glamoured as Faith" killed without blowing her own cover.
nerissa smokes sharettes fyi
He may have known something just wasn't right. But before, Lilly's glamour only wore off when the tube was opened, and we never found Faith/Nerissa's glamour tube.
Faith was already dead before the episode started. Nerissa tells you that she put the head on the steps for Bigby to find. If that is the case, the only real possiblity left is that Nerissa was glamoured as Faith from the start.
I interpreted that Faith had already been dead by the time Episode 1 took place, and Nerissa had glamoured herself as Faith and orchestrated a disturbance with Woody (longtime rival of Bigby) as just another way of catching his attention. Leaving Faith's head on his doorstep was all well and good, but she wanted him to get that personal connection with the "victim". Make him care.
Anyway, I don't think she set him up for any reason beyond getting him invested in the case.
It can't be it. How do you explain the head of a previously dead woman to "gain" the same beating marks that the girl had after being slapped around by Woddy?
... inconsistent modeling?
Okay, I don't have the answer to that. Truthfully, every theory I've seen on the ending so far is chock full of holes. This is just the one that makes the most sense to me script-wise, and the one I'm going with until I see a better option.
People, there's one very important point that we are missing. How would Nerissa get a Faith glamour? (Or the other way around) If that was the case, aunt Greenleaf must have been in it.
I believe that we meet Faith at the beginning, and that Nerissa feels responsible for their upcoming deaths after she tells Georgie about the photo, so she makes Faith switch with her, before Georgie comes to kill her. In the Smeltery we see a photo on the board that shows Faith being mad at Nerissa. Probably after Nerissa told her about how she snitched. Nerissas Book Of Fables tells us she finds comfort in her fellow dancers. Probably felt so ashamed and responsible that she sacrificed herself. So then we have Faith standing in Nerissas place, trying to get Bigby hooked on the case. She has flirted with him, so she knows he did like her. So she placed Nerissas head (glamoured as Faith) on the doorstep with the ribbon and her ring to give him some strong leads as to who she were and stuff.. She also send a note to her husband that she was sorry and he shouldnt look for her. Meaning that she isnt dead and that she cant come back. As her story tells that she hides herself, she chose to keep the glamour on. atleast until she found a new place.
Hit me with your plotholes and i hope i can pass your trials.
I don't know what to think anymore, but I feel quite sure that the girl we met being slapped by Woody is the same we later met in the club. I need to give myself a chance to play ep5 at least once time with my nice and bad guy saves to try to wrap things up.
yeah i enjoyed every bit of this season and it did well enough for telltale to do a second... always view it from a business viewpoint.. if something sells almost certainly more will follow
I think the original fairy tales hold clues to what the writers intended for the ending. Both the Little Mermaid and Allerleirauh involve the main characters disguising themselves or changing their form, which fits with Faith/Nerissa's actions through TWAU.
At the end of Hans Christian Andersen's original Little Mermaid she chooses to die rather than kill the prince and regain mermaid-hood. She jumps off the prince's ship and her body dissolves into sea foam.
Allerleirauh gets a happy ending with her new prince hubby.
This seems like the best explanation to me, though I still find some parts confusing.
1) How would Faith and Nerissa manage to get the glamours without the aid of Greenleaf?
2) In Episode 1, you have a choice of whether or not to give Faith money, but not every player did this and the ending is the same. It would make sense to me that giving Faith money she'd be able to get her glamour without the help from Greenleaf. Yet the ending stays the same if you didn't give her the money.
It is still confusing how it went down, but your explanation is most plausible from all I've read
I hope it wasn't an overlook. I don't think there's any way to perfectly reproduce the beating marks. The head we found has to be the girl we saw getting the beating (I take it that they used the same model and textures simply because so). Either part of her plan with the other girls was to lose her head, to have it delivered to Bibgy and then given to Swineheart so the doctor could have it reunited with her body that was never found... or Bigby's realization at the very end is misconception on his part, which I find hard to believe.
As they don't give us a straight answer I hope that they didn't left any considerable holes when they rewrote the story after the leak...
well I like it (except for the final boss battle...I guess I was expecting something different...but hey that's just me...)...and hope that they make another game for BIGBY and the rest of Fabletown...again I love the game and the bad boy detective theme is awesome! If they make another game for BIGBY and the Fabletown folks I'd buy it again!
Why does Faith have to be Nerissa? What if Nerissa was Faith in the beginning just in glamour and the head at the doorstep was actually Faith's? (assuming Nerissa's story near the end about Faith walking in and Georgie killing her is true)
Unless the part when Dr. Swinehart said he wanted to run more tests meant that the head was glamoured. But, why wouldn't the doctor have said something about that? After all, they discovered that Lily was in glamour.
I'm also very disappointed in the game. Bigby turned out to be a complete idiot, not an intelligent detective he is in the comics, many things remained hanging in the air as I feared they would and that stupid ending was so unnecessary... it raised bunch of new questions and made you question everything you did.
If Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa and Nerissa was Faith, does it mean that Nerissa stole the photo whilst glamoured or Faith stole it and let Nerissa get killed for what she has done while cowardly hiding her true identity... or did Georgie knew that he killed Nerissa and lied about her being Faith. If so why? If Faith stole the photo, why would she come pleading to Georgie? It has to be Nerissa and the girl at the end (Faith, in this case) simply switched the roles while telling Bigby what happened, but if it was actually Nerissa why would Georgie kill Faith, (that is if she was glamoured to look like Faith at that time, if she wasn't why would Faith glamour herself as Nerissa afterward and how come Georgie wouldn't notice that)? And there are other questions like "have Swineheart figured it out?" and so...
I was half-expecting they'd pull an ending like this... instead of trying to wrap everything up as best they could and create strong storyline, they just had to add another "twist" which adds more questions to the already unanswered bunch and make it a sort of cliffhanger...
A sudden twist at the end - it is an oldest storytelling trick there is and is actually a very cheap one, most of the time it feels forced, anyone could do it and usually does it for the kicks or to try and make story seem more "intelligent" than it actually is, even though it is mostly a simple gimmick one can always do at the end of the story. There are rare occasions where it is done masterfully, but it has to be tied to a very strong narrative for it to work that way. As a writer I much more appreciate a well-thought, intelligent storyline that wraps everything nicely in the end, without any loose ends than the one which leaves plenty of them and pulls a cheap trick like this one and make you scratch your head and question the story entirely.
I really liked the episode 1 of the game and some later episodes had their moments also, though they were significantly inferior in quality... now I know that we don't all have same expectations, but look and story of an episode 1 and the fact that Bigby was shown to be an intelligent, deducing detective in the comics, made me believe that it was detective game that we were getting here, but instead of connecting evidence Bigby would mostly get in a big long fights with almost everyone he'd encounter and made himself look like a complete fool, unable to grasp any clue thrown in his direction (the ribbons, for example).
I was expecting much better plot than this one and a game of a detective genre, not goddamn "Mortal Combat". Anyway, what I find most tragic is that I half-like the games Telltale does, they have all of the elements of games that I usually like and they look beautiful and atmospheric, but in the end they utterly disappoint me. I think that Telltale needs better writers. It is the shame, because they seem like a very creative company that can do better.
I absolutely agree with you,and if they aren't going to make season 2 or DLC, players will never be able to figure the exact situation out. There are many theories about that cliffhanger at the end, but we'll never know what really happened.
That's exactly how I feel. They made Bigby progressively more an more like a regular washed out action hero. She played him from the beginning and he never questioned her until the very end when she rubbed it in his face repeating that same phrase.
I even had a few theories up (I can't find the others because I can't see see a list of the discussions I started in this stupid forums) that called most of the important points of the final twist. Here's the first of them:
www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/72452/new-theory-on-faith-possibly-being-behind-this-whole-mess/p1
The disappointing part is not how things turned out but how long it took for Bigby to realize something was off, and how the game ended at that very moment, leaving way too much up to our interpretation of various ambiguous plot points with a virtually infinite number of possibilities. It would have been better to me if, even after rushing himself and doing the girl's dirty work like a puppet, Bigby got to confront her if he didn't choose to let her go (to me Bigby was in love with her, so he could just let her go because he didn't want to face the true), instead we got a black screen and credits no matter the option we pick. :-\
Just checked out your theory. Few things are off, but that's to be expected of course, otherwise great job mate, I wonder how I haven't came across that particular theory of yours before. I find it somewhat eerie to read it now after things described in your post actually happened in game. It's almost a complete spot on, well done!
By the way I agree completely with what you wrote here.
I guess I would say the ending leaves me frustrated, but not so much at the game itself as much as the fact that I still don't understand it. I don't see where it came from or how it really makes sense. It seems right now like an ass-pull of a twist that doesn't really do anything, especially since it ended when it did. I mean, would anything about the game be any different if it had just been as it seemed? Nobody even knows what precisely happened which tells me that it wasn't adequately foreshadowed and just seems like... the opposite of a deus ex machina (opposite in the sense that rather than resolving anything it creates new plots). Although this could just be my failing, but the fact that it just faded at that point exacerbates this feeling because we won't get the explanation we need until season 2, if at all.
That being said, I enjoyed the episode as a whole, full wolf bigby was awesome, I'm just super-confused about the ending and know it won't be properly explained for a long time if ever.
Heh, opposite of "god from the machine", how come I never though of this before? I would call this simply disjointedness in the story, due to a sudden twist (though story is generally disjointed, even without it many other things leave me frustrated also). By the way I don't think there'll be season 2, but I might be mistaken... but, yeah, it has been great to see Bigby in full wolf form, I was hoping that would happen in the final episode and at least we got that.
There are other things that appear to have just been slightly forgotten and still confuse me, but I kind of understand a few plot holes if they re-wrote the entire thing after the first episode like people say. I also feel like maybe, for the same reason, the series ended up being kind of rushed hence the "disjointedness" especially with TWD being released concurrently. I thought the first episode was probably the best overall honestly.
I hope there is a season 2 because I did love the first season but I hope TTG take a break and don't try to push themselves too hard each release. Make sure they get it perfect. No ending on a contrived twist that serves only to set up another season, whether such a season materializes or not. This franchise and the concept of the fables universe has soooooooo much potential and TTG really hit that potential in the beginning, I just felt they slipped a little, probably due to time pressure, after they rewrote things. It was still good and I enjoyed it but it didn't quite live up to the expectations overall I had based on the first episode.
It's just like you took my words and rephrased them in a more polite, understanding and civilized manner. I completely agree with everything here. I'd like to see and play season 2 actually, if I detach myself from some hopes and expectations and forget about Fables comics I could really enjoy it. I still regret about what could have been based on episode 1, but what's there is there... The fact is, there are way too many "Call of Duties" and "Gods of War" out there, so any game of this, more narrative and interacting kind that gets made I consider to be a gem.
They did the same with Back to the future
im still waiting for the second season
I don't think that was meant to be a cliffhanger at all. Just something to think about. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the answer is, as it doesn't change anything, and it's not even necessarily worth following up upon, which is why you have the option to just let her walk away. I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say with near certainty that even if there is a second season of TWAU, Nerissa will not factor into it at all.
Classic : )
I think with regards to Bigby seeming like an idiot in the end, the fact that it is a prequel to the graphic novel story, could suggest rather than being an idiot, it's a learning curve that possibly aided in Bibgy being the kind of detective he is later down the line.
It would be a good point if he just started out recently, but he's been the sheriff since the 18th century.
I agree with you that the Bigby we see in TWAU seems to be clueless, while in the comics Bigby is an amazing detective, and very good at finding( (and interpreting) clues. For example, I thought the game would have ended in a similar fashion as the first volume of the Fables comic book. With Bigby connecting all of the information, clues, and tying everything together himself, instead the crooked man basically makes a good point about Bigby having a shady case, and makes Bigby look incompetent, until Faith/nerissa( we really don't know XD) comes and saves his ass with a lie.
I guess what I am trying to say is I felt Bigby wasn't the same detective I love from Fables. Also, we never had a real chance to connect to dots, or present evidence to the crowd when the crooked man called for it, other then " Georgie told me so ".
Episode was awsome and when you think about it there are many clues that nerissa was glamoured as faith in the firt ep:
1- Faith(nerissa glamoured as faith) says she will swing by his apartment and it is nerissa that goes to his apartment
2- While they meet for the first time nerissa or bigby( cant remember) says : have we met before ? and nerissa says : youre trying to place to me. AS in youre trying to remember where you saw me before.
3- The way they talk is very similar .
I'll give episode 5 a 8.5/10.
At the end of the game, Faith walks away. Bigby is left to tie all the threads together himself, and so are the players. The ending still resonates well emotionally. In life we are not spoon fed answers to every detail of who did what and when, so why should we in a video game?
Additionally, this sort of open-ended conclusion--leaving one more mystery for the audience to solve on their own--is a convention of the genre. Look at the ending of a movie like Chinatown, probably the most iconic example of film noir, and you'll find almost every major conflict is unresolved. What matters more is the hero's descent into darkness--the recognition of the deep permeation of corruption in their universe on nearly every level. Faith was able to struggle against all the powers that conspired against her to shed some light on the situation to someone who could do something about it.
So long as her actions seem plausible within the universe, I do not need all the details to feel fully satisfied emotionally with this conclusion
Play it yourself, it feels much different than just watching some others playtrough from a small smartphone screen.
I give it 9 out of 10, episode was very intense and the enging gave butterflies in to my stomach. It's good they didn't explain everything, it put me and I'm sure lot of other to people wonder about those things.
Nerissa could've just took faith's hair when she was still alive or even from her dead body. We true fans overthink things too much so it can ruin some people's experience of the episodes.
And how it made Bigby look like a "moron" or a "bad detective", he solved the case and even figured Nerissa glamoured herself to look like Faith?
Faith was dead the night before her head was placed. Nerissa leads you to capture the Crooked Man. Bigby has excellent hearing, the only way for us to make a comparison was to make us hear what Nerissa said and what "Faith" said one after the other.
Does people seriously want every fucking thing explained and 'riding into the sunset' ending? It's more fun to wonder about the things by yourself and maybe solve everything in your mind but to never get a confirmation that your theory is correct or wrong. It's fun, it keeps you wondering even longer.
Glad I'm not the only one who found that amusing.