Empathy - the feeling that you understand and share another person's experiences and emotions
Humanity - The quality of being humane; kin… moredness; benevolence.
Survival - act or fact of surviving, especially under adverse or unusual circumstances.
So
Good - Empathy
Neutral - Humanity
Bad/Evil - Survival.
Long story short Empathy and Humanity arent the same.
I'm all for humanity, just because empathy makes you relate to another character doesn't mean it's better than humanity which gives you positive qualities such as kindness.
I'm all for humanity, just because empathy makes you relate to another character doesn't mean it's better than humanity which gives you positive qualities such as kindness.
I understand what you're saying. It's true that Luke was somewhat empathetic and Kenny was survivalist-y. You were interpreting it as, "These characters want Clem to become ______," while I was interpreting it as, "Clem can approach these characters, by becoming _____." True, Luke did try to get Clem to empathize with Carver when asking her to consider why even bad men would follow someone for miles for family. But that was one occasion. Luke couldn't empathize with Sarah it seems when he was trying to get her out of the mobile home; he was just yelling at her and he didn't seem to realize a calm voice was needed (yeah he was trying for hours and his technique could've been different earlier on, but he still wasn't successful in all that time). It seems he never thought to take Clem's approach to empathize with her and say, "I know how you're feeling. I lost someone too." Similarly, although they were best friends, Luke never seemed to be very empathetic towards Nick. He said he worried about him, yes. But it never looked like Luke took Nick aside to talk to him, as if he understood what Nick was going through. What do you think?
...we can empathise with what pretty much anyone does though
That's not necessarily true. As much as I love the guy (and I do like him quite a lot lol), I feel that we can't really empathize with Luke. He refuses to show most emotion; and we can't know for sure what's going on in his head. The reasons he does things seems to be, "It's the right thing to do." But why does Luke feel that way? Did he mess up royally with his family's deaths, and now he refuses to give up on saving anyone, or letting any morals slide? Or something else? We have no clue for sure. We know a whole lot more about Kenny, and why he does what he does. E.g. we know he's super attached and protective of the baby because he's a family man and it reminds him of Duck. Hence I think it's a lot easier to empathize i.e. understand why Kenny does what he does, but not necessarily for Luke. Also, I feel Luke represents humanity better than empathy. Just wondering, how would "Lee = humanity" work into your equation?
...we can empathise with what pretty much anyone does though
My post was saying that each of those three characteristics seem to apply t… moreo three people who were important in clem's survival. Luke was empathetic, not Kenny, and Kenny was a survivalist, unlike Luke.
I think Empathy, Humanity and Survival will be the tags for the last 3 choices that will decide who our Clem's gonna be, probably the most important decisions of the whole episode 5.. in my opinion that tweet doesn't mean that we'll get 3 different Clems ..
I choose 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will. 5% pleasure, 50% pain and 100% reason to remember don't mess with fucking Clementine or I will beat you to shit.
I don't think you're wrong, but what if Job is being more specific about his definitions here?
(from another of my posts) You can empathi… moreze with someone without necessarily agreeing that they're being humane. E.g. You can empathize i.e. understand Kenny when you realize why he'd want to kill Carver so brutally (payback for his eye etc.), but it could be done in a more humane fashion (could've just shot him in the head, or even left him alive.)
I choose 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will. 5% pleasure, 50% pain and 100% reason to remember don't mess with fucking Clementine or I will beat you to shit.
I understand what you're saying. It's true that Luke was somewhat empathetic and Kenny was survivalist-y. You were interpreting it as, "Thes… moree characters want Clem to become ______," while I was interpreting it as, "Clem can approach these characters, by becoming _____." True, Luke did try to get Clem to empathize with Carver when asking her to consider why even bad men would follow someone for miles for family. But that was one occasion. Luke couldn't empathize with Sarah it seems when he was trying to get her out of the mobile home; he was just yelling at her and he didn't seem to realize a calm voice was needed (yeah he was trying for hours and his technique could've been different earlier on, but he still wasn't successful in all that time). It seems he never thought to take Clem's approach to empathize with her and say, "I know how you're feeling. I lost someone too." Similarly, although they were best friends, Luke never seemed to be ver… [view original content]
The way I see it, Humanity means doing the "innocent" thing, Empathy means doing the "caring" thing, and Survival means doing the "smart" thing. And these don't necessarily have to be different choices, but might simply be 3 different reasons for making a choice. Lee telling Clem not to shoot him because he doesn't want her getting used to killing? Humanity. Lee telling Clem not to shoot him because he doesn't want her to have to go through that? Empathy. Lee telling Clem not to shoot him because he wants her to save the bullet? Survival.
Comments
They aren't, but it's incredibly easy to be both.
Empathy and humanity are much closer together as associations and concepts than survival.
You can be kind and empathetic. My clem is.
Well, you can empathize with Carver. He's not a very humane person.
I understand what you're saying. It's true that Luke was somewhat empathetic and Kenny was survivalist-y. You were interpreting it as, "These characters want Clem to become ______," while I was interpreting it as, "Clem can approach these characters, by becoming _____." True, Luke did try to get Clem to empathize with Carver when asking her to consider why even bad men would follow someone for miles for family. But that was one occasion. Luke couldn't empathize with Sarah it seems when he was trying to get her out of the mobile home; he was just yelling at her and he didn't seem to realize a calm voice was needed (yeah he was trying for hours and his technique could've been different earlier on, but he still wasn't successful in all that time). It seems he never thought to take Clem's approach to empathize with her and say, "I know how you're feeling. I lost someone too." Similarly, although they were best friends, Luke never seemed to be very empathetic towards Nick. He said he worried about him, yes. But it never looked like Luke took Nick aside to talk to him, as if he understood what Nick was going through. What do you think?
That's not necessarily true. As much as I love the guy (and I do like him quite a lot lol), I feel that we can't really empathize with Luke. He refuses to show most emotion; and we can't know for sure what's going on in his head. The reasons he does things seems to be, "It's the right thing to do." But why does Luke feel that way? Did he mess up royally with his family's deaths, and now he refuses to give up on saving anyone, or letting any morals slide? Or something else? We have no clue for sure. We know a whole lot more about Kenny, and why he does what he does. E.g. we know he's super attached and protective of the baby because he's a family man and it reminds him of Duck. Hence I think it's a lot easier to empathize i.e. understand why Kenny does what he does, but not necessarily for Luke. Also, I feel Luke represents humanity better than empathy. Just wondering, how would "Lee = humanity" work into your equation?
This makes me think that Clementine can choose to keep the past or think of the present...
I think Empathy, Humanity and Survival will be the tags for the last 3 choices that will decide who our Clem's gonna be, probably the most important decisions of the whole episode 5.. in my opinion that tweet doesn't mean that we'll get 3 different Clems ..
I'm mostly Empathy. Though i'll try my best to keep SOME humanity.
I'm something between humanity and empathy. Oh god, the choice is gonna be hard...
MyClementine is Empathy and Survival
I choose 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will. 5% pleasure, 50% pain and 100% reason to remember don't mess with fucking Clementine or I will beat you to shit.
Hahaha frickin' love that song!
Oh right.
Yeah, that's not what I meant in my post at all
I was saying these three guys are exemplars of each possible route for clem.
Empathy: She's lost a lot of her spark, but staying around others gives her something to live for.
Lol gotcha
The way I see it, Humanity means doing the "innocent" thing, Empathy means doing the "caring" thing, and Survival means doing the "smart" thing. And these don't necessarily have to be different choices, but might simply be 3 different reasons for making a choice. Lee telling Clem not to shoot him because he doesn't want her getting used to killing? Humanity. Lee telling Clem not to shoot him because he doesn't want her to have to go through that? Empathy. Lee telling Clem not to shoot him because he wants her to save the bullet? Survival.